Human worth

[Gillipig]

Saying it? Of course we are! Living up to it? Not so much!
What's the point in saying that we should do something that we aren't genetically programmed to do? We can't treat everyone as if they have equal worth because it's instinctively against our nature. What's normal to us is to treat others differently depending on what they can offer us, and how close they are related to us. I don't see the point in self delusion.

Even if you are right it is better to try and be morally just and fail than to try and be unjust and succeed.

Well I for one believe knowledge in itself can't be bad, just what people chose to do with it. I may recognize that humans have different values, but that doesn't mean I'll rise up and treat some people like shit just because they don't mean much to me. I can do so with an entirely selfish mindset as well. Treating others poorly isn't a smart thing to do, because what goes around comes around.

[Haggis_McMutton]

I'm gonna start a campaign to raise awareness about how shitty of a person Mother Theresa really was.

Also, I do intend to respond seriously to this thread at some point. It's on my bucket list.

[Gillipig]

I'm gonna start a campaign to raise awareness about how shitty of a person Mother Theresa really was.

Also, I do intend to respond seriously to this thread at some point. It's on my bucket list.

If your bucket list is any kind of good, it's far far down on that list lol.

[BigBallinStalin]

Like I said, I don't want to view someone in terms of what value they have. Basically the whole thread is a bullshit excuse to justify poor treatment of other humans.

Not really, at least not from the arguments I've been making.

Simply because people value others subjectively, it doesn't follow that they are justified in treating them however they wish.

...in my opinion, objectively there is no reason why one person is better than another.

So, to be logically consistent, you'd have to agree that a child molester who has raped and killed three young boys and two puppies is just as good as Mother Theresa. How about that?

Mother Theresa is not exactly a saint (well not yet anyway) but seriously, she was a bit nutty at least if Hitch is to be believed. As for your other character, I am guessing there was more of a serious back story in that no ordinarily minded human would do that. They are a mammal born into a deterministic world and they behave in accordance with the way they were made, objectively they are just a survival machine all the same as Mother Theresa.

You may disagree with me, but its OK you were always going to and I love you all the same big balls.

p.s. the first comment was aimed at OP more than you. I understand where you are coming from, but I reject the premise of evaluating people at all in terms of some good or evil. Humans are so much more, and yet so much less.

p.p.s I am probably talking shit, but its 630am and it makes perfect sense to me.

Substitute "Mother Theresa" for "some really good person which most people can agree with many facts that this person was really good," and the argument still holds.

So, your position is that objectively, the Really Good Person is no better than the Diabolical Child and Puppy Molester-Murderer?

[pmchugh]

Kind of. I reject the idea of people being good or bad, so you cannot have "better". We are complex organic logical machines with no true free will, to talk of good and bad (in morals) is nonsensical in an objectified frame. (Unless you are religious or Sam Harris).

[puppydog85]

Ok, a Christian speaking here. Humans are all *created* equal and in the image of God. This is in theory the driving force behind the Christian idea of all men being created equal. That is not saying that they are all equal in abilities ect., just that they all have equal worth in the eyes of God.

[BigBallinStalin]

Ok, a Christian speaking here. Humans are all *created* equal and in the image of God. This is in theory the driving force behind the Christian idea of all men being created equal. That is not saying that they are all equal in abilities ect., just that they all have equal worth in the eyes of God.

Yes, but are they equal in the eyes of Thor? Or Zeus? And what about Jesus or Mary? And let's not forget the Flying Spaghetti Monster, for surely, the opinion of this supreme being also counts.

[BigBallinStalin]

Kind of. I reject the idea of people being good or bad, so you cannot have "better". We are complex organic logical machines with no true free will, to talk of good and bad (in morals) is nonsensical in an objectified frame. (Unless you are religious or Sam Harris).

How much do you want to continue stretching objectivism?

RE: underlined, what'dya mean? Can you give me an example?

[puppydog85]

Stalin, the question was not whose idea of human worth was best, the question was why insist that they are equal. I just gave the Christian answer. And no, no other opinion counts. And that includes yours.

[BigBallinStalin]

Stalin, the question was not whose idea of human worth was best, the question was why insist that they are equal. I just gave the Christian answer. And no, no other opinion counts. And that includes yours.

Ah, isn't philosophy easy when all opinions are invalid except for those which you arbitrarily and/or illogically deem as valid?

[puppydog85]

Who said it was arbitrary? My position has doctoral thesis's written about it. You just asked a question and I gave you my answer. Don't arbitrarily call my position arbitrary.

[Symmetry]

Who said it was arbitrary? My position has doctoral thesis's written about it. You just asked a question and I gave you my answer. Don't arbitrarily call my position arbitrary.

Theses, not "thesis's", moron.

[Gillipig]

Who said it was arbitrary? My position has doctoral thesis's written about it. You just asked a question and I gave you my answer. Don't arbitrarily call my position arbitrary.

Theses, not "thesis's", moron.

Be nice! No need for name calling.

*Gillipig acts like the good guy for once.*

[Symmetry]

Who said it was arbitrary? My position has doctoral thesis's written about it. You just asked a question and I gave you my answer. Don't arbitrarily call my position arbitrary.

Theses, not "thesis's", moron.

Be nice! No need for name calling.

*Gillipig acts like the good guy for once.*

My apology's.

[Gillipig]

Who said it was arbitrary? My position has doctoral thesis's written about it. You just asked a question and I gave you my answer. Don't arbitrarily call my position arbitrary.

Theses, not "thesis's", moron.

Be nice! No need for name calling.

*Gillipig acts like the good guy for once.*

My apology's.

You need to hug him too !

[BigBallinStalin]

Who said it was arbitrary? My position has doctoral thesis's written about it. You just asked a question and I gave you my answer. Don't arbitrarily call my position arbitrary.

I have great reasons to call your position arbitrary and/or illogical. You entirely dismissed the opinions of other deities because according to you "I just gave the Christian answer. And no, no other opinion counts. And that includes yours."

By implication, if it's not Christian, it must be wrong because "no other opinion counts." You may as well have argued, "Why? cuz I said so" or "cuz I feel like it" (which is not a logical argument).

It's arbitrary because your Christian beliefs are presumably based on your personal whim. For you, faith fills the gaps where reason and logic fall short.


But now, your argument has changed. We have an appeal to authority, specifically "doctoral thesis's written about..." what exactly and which ones?

[Symmetry]

And what about? Of course.

It would be dumb to say that a position was justified simply because someone had written a doctoral thesis on it. To go full Nazi analogy, one would assume that merely stating that doctoral theses having been written on Hitler's ideology doesn't actually mean that said theses justify his views, and it would be particularly stupid to suggest that they were justifications for sharing his opinions in the present day.

[BigBallinStalin]

And what about? Of course.

It would be dumb to say that a position was justified simply because someone had written a doctoral thesis on it. To go full Nazi analogy, one would assume that merely stating that doctoral theses having been written on Hitler's ideology doesn't actually mean that said theses justify his views, and it would be particularly stupid to suggest that they were justifications for sharing his opinions in the present day.

Yeah, well, I just gave the BBS answer. And no, no other opinion counts. And that includes yours.

[Symmetry]

And what about? Of course.

It would be dumb to say that a position was justified simply because someone had written a doctoral thesis on it. To go full Nazi analogy, one would assume that merely stating that doctoral theses having been written on Hitler's ideology doesn't actually mean that said theses justify his views, and it would be particularly stupid to suggest that they were justifications for sharing his opinions in the present day.

Yeah, well, I just gave the BBS answer. And no, no other opinion counts. And that includes yours.

Dude, I've read enough of your opinions on economics to get that you have trouble counting.

[BigBallinStalin]

And what about? Of course.

It would be dumb to say that a position was justified simply because someone had written a doctoral thesis on it. To go full Nazi analogy, one would assume that merely stating that doctoral theses having been written on Hitler's ideology doesn't actually mean that said theses justify his views, and it would be particularly stupid to suggest that they were justifications for sharing his opinions in the present day.

Yeah, well, I just gave the BBS answer. And no, no other opinion counts. And that includes yours.

Dude, I've read enough of your opinions on economics to get that you have trouble counting.

Who said it anything about counting? My position has doctoral thesis's written about it. You just asked a question and I gave you my answer. Don't arbitrarily call my position arbitrary.

[Symmetry]

And what about? Of course.

It would be dumb to say that a position was justified simply because someone had written a doctoral thesis on it. To go full Nazi analogy, one would assume that merely stating that doctoral theses having been written on Hitler's ideology doesn't actually mean that said theses justify his views, and it would be particularly stupid to suggest that they were justifications for sharing his opinions in the present day.

Yeah, well, I just gave the BBS answer. And no, no other opinion counts. And that includes yours.

Dude, I've read enough of your opinions on economics to get that you have trouble counting.

Who said it anything about counting? My position has doctoral thesis's written about it. You just asked a question and I gave you my answer. Don't arbitrarily call my position arbitrary.

God said so. I agree with God, and obviously god agrees with me.

Looks like I win this time.

[BigBallinStalin]

And what about? Of course.

It would be dumb to say that a position was justified simply because someone had written a doctoral thesis on it. To go full Nazi analogy, one would assume that merely stating that doctoral theses having been written on Hitler's ideology doesn't actually mean that said theses justify his views, and it would be particularly stupid to suggest that they were justifications for sharing his opinions in the present day.

Yeah, well, I just gave the BBS answer. And no, no other opinion counts. And that includes yours.

Dude, I've read enough of your opinions on economics to get that you have trouble counting.

Who said it anything about counting? My position has doctoral thesis's written about it. You just asked a question and I gave you my answer. Don't arbitrarily call my position arbitrary.

God said so. I agree with God, and obviously god agrees with me.

Looks like I win this time.

Your God is a false God because my Book says so, and I agree with my Book and my God who agrees with me; therefore, you're more wrong, and I win more points.

[Symmetry]

I haves the doctoral thesisis that talk about this, and God, so I win.

[Haggis_McMutton]

I'm gonna write my doctoral thesis on measuring the half-life of forum threads.
We're trying to probabilistically determine how long it take for different kinds of forum threads to fall back to their stable states(i.e. trolling, politics, religion or some combination of the above).

[BigBallinStalin]

I'm gonna write my doctoral thesis on measuring the half-life of forum threads.
We're trying to probabilistically determine how long it take for different kinds of forum threads to fall back to their stable states(i.e. trolling, politics, religion or some combination of the above).

Come here, and kiss natty_dread, but not me, you crazy man you.