D.T.W.A.

[PLAYER57832]

if I have my way, taxpayers will no longer subsidize drug addictions.

we know.. you would far rather have us pay a LOT more to subsidize drug testing companies...

and if that means tromping all over our US constitution.. too bad!

[Phatscotty]

if I have my way, taxpayers will no longer subsidize drug addictions.

we know.. you would far rather have us pay a LOT more to subsidize drug testing companies...

and if that means tromping all over our US constitution.. too bad!

We can disagree about that. It's okay. The program is up and running and we will see the results.

When a person becomes dependent, they can not demand independence. Sorry

[PLAYER57832]

if I have my way, taxpayers will no longer subsidize drug addictions.

we know.. you would far rather have us pay a LOT more to subsidize drug testing companies...

and if that means tromping all over our US constitution.. too bad!

When a person becomes dependent, they can not demand independence. Sorry

well, see, the first step to relieving oppression is realizig just how dependent you are... too bad you aren't that far yet.

[Phatscotty]

if I have my way, taxpayers will no longer subsidize drug addictions.

we know.. you would far rather have us pay a LOT more to subsidize drug testing companies...

and if that means tromping all over our US constitution.. too bad!

When a person becomes dependent, they can not demand independence. Sorry

well, see, the first step to relieving oppression is realizig just how dependent you are... too bad you aren't that far yet.

What dependent actions am I going to take today?

[john9blue]

God doesn't give you your freedoms.

Phatscotty and Night Strike, you guys should get married.

true grit is in order

p.s. if I have my way, taxpayers will no longer subsidize drug addictions.

False.

and you guys say that scotty is the one who keeps using grade-school one liners. contribute to the thread or shut the f*ck up.

[Timminz]

God doesn't give you your freedoms.

Phatscotty and Night Strike, you guys should get married.

true grit is in order

p.s. if I have my way, taxpayers will no longer subsidize drug addictions.

False.

and you guys say that scotty is the one who keeps using grade-school one liners. contribute to the thread or shut the f*ck up.

When did I say that?

How's about you GFY?

[john9blue]

@scotty: lots of subtle things, e.g. using roads, having clean air and water, being protected from criminals, etc.

@timminz: don't feel like searching through your legion of posts insulting scotty.

[Phatscotty]

yes, roads, air and water, being protected, yes yes yes. Also, yes, I do pay plenty for those things, and also (our lottery system helps with the roads here). There are just too many people who pay 0$. It isn't working.

I know I know, stfu and pay more...

[natty dread]

You don't want to pay any taxes, yet you want all the benefits that comes from having a government. You want stuff given to you for free. Then you complain about how you despise people who want stuff given to them for free.

[Phatscotty]

You don't want to pay any taxes, yet you want all the benefits that comes from having a government. You want stuff given to you for free. Then you complain about how you despise people who want stuff given to them for free.

you continue to amaze me on how you get to "dont want to pay any taxes" from "I'm paying far too much in taxes"

I can't follow that.


What is more greedy? demanding more of the money you already earned yourself? or demanding money from someone elses earnings? It's not even close.

[PLAYER57832]

yes, roads, air and water, being protected, yes yes yes. Also, yes, I do pay plenty for those things, and also (our lottery system helps with the roads here). There are just too many people who pay 0$. It isn't working.

I know I know, stfu and pay more...

That you imagine you are paying for these means you don't understand what they cost.. or how little is going toward their maintenance right now.

Also, you are king of "let's cut the government".. but like, now, when it comes to the benefits you think they are just going to materialize out of thin air, without payment. And, most ironically of all.. I highly doubt you are in the top 1-2% or have much say in the large corporations that are being targeted with higher taxes.

[natty dread]

What is more greedy? demanding more of the money you already earned yourself? or demanding money from someone elses earnings? It's not even close.

You're demanding that you get stuff for free. You want the services and protection your government provides for you, but you don't want to pay for them.

That's not how it works.

You can't go to a shop and say "I want this food, but I want to pay you less for it because I want to keep more of the money I earned".

[Phatscotty]

What is more greedy? demanding more of the money you already earned yourself? or demanding money from someone elses earnings? It's not even close.

You're demanding that you get stuff for free. You want the services and protection your government provides for you, but you don't want to pay for them.

How did I turn into the one who doesn't pay any taxes?

[BigBallinStalin]

God doesn't give you your freedoms.

Phatscotty and Night Strike, you guys should get married.

true grit is in order

p.s. if I have my way, taxpayers will no longer subsidize drug addictions.

False.

and you guys say that scotty is the one who keeps using grade-school one liners. contribute to the thread or shut the f*ck up.

Honestly, what else can you say to someone who ignores valid points and then spouts some squats some random troll-worthy crap on the forum?


Phatsco is an intelligent enough person. He just enjoys posting stuff like:

I am free. I owe nobody anything, and nobody owes me anything.

You cannot force me into servitude.

He's still wrong on the earlier points, but it doesn't matter if he can get people to react to his new rounds of rubbish. Essentially, Phatsco is a troll and should be treated as one.

[PLAYER57832]

Just a few of Phatscotty's "points" and some of the responses he has ignored:

Have I or have I not already listed a full page of 3 columns of free rehab in Florida?

You did not, not from what I saw... not DRUG rehab clinics, anyway.

55$ in order to get a free 300$ check every month for years adding up to $10,000's?

Tyranny!

Do your math properly: You have to test 30 people , so 30 * 55 or $1650, and the savings is just for ONE year (. OR, more likely no savings, since the welfare for the kids is given to someone else.) PLUS you have to add in adminstration costs, recording costs, etc. ( I had said 6% of the population was at most using drugs, but the articles said 3% was correct for Florida.)

OOH OOH, missed this diversion:

Right, and when we get around to shutting down the IRS and it costs 50 million to close it down, I suppose I will be a hypocrite cuz how can I be for lower spending and want to spend an extra 50 mil to close down the IRS....

Well set aside that this is an irrelevant and idiotically unrelated example, this drug testing program won't balance like your example, it will COST us money.

another one I missed earlier:

many times I have said that is not the case. We are only talking about the ones who are addicted to drugs. ranges from 3-10% in FL, depending on who you ask.

people who do not use public dollars for drugs have nothing to worry about, obviously.

Entirely untrue. ANYONE who even just applies has to go through this testing.. before they even get a dime. So, people in dire straights, so bad that they need public assistance now have to come up with $55 up front?

Not to mention that there is a direct link between mental illness, other illnesses and use of illegal drugs. When you cannot get healthcare, then buying some pot on the street can seem not such a bad deal.

Have I or have I not already listed a full page of 3 columns of free rehab in Florida?

How do you not know there are free rehab clinics everywhere? If I remember correctly Florida has at least 1 in every county...

Player must be some kind of moron if she doesn't know that Florida having at least one free clinic in each county isn't proof that there are free clinics everywhere. I can't figure out why Player wouldn't accept that as basic evidence.

Player- at least one in every county in Florida. That's everywhere.

Hippy scum.

No need to call names. Just pointing out I have already posted a long list of free clinics, at least 1 in every county, and that was just the first clinic chain that came up. There are many many other free clinics as well.

I suppose that isn't good enough tho maybe there needs to be one on every corner. You guys's cynicism is blinding.

[/quote]
Except, #1 it does NOT seem as if your data was correct. Most of the rehab clinics were for alchohol, not drugs.

#2. Florida seems to have an unusually high number of clinics. In our area, folks on heroine have to go to a clinic 2 hours away. (I know this because I worked with a guy on work release from jail for a drug conviction -- that is, he was in jail except when driving to the clinic and/or working.)

#3 If Florida has so many free clinics, and they work, then why does it seem to have such a high addiction rate?

[Woodruff]

This is just sad now.

Phatscotty, why don't you just quit while you have any shreds of dignity left.

I am not dependent on public dollars. I work hard and pay my own bills and pay a shit load of taxes.

Why is that sad?

You drive public roads, benefit from public education (whether you were publically schooled or not), benefit from police and fire services, no doubt utilize weather information. You are healthy, thanks in LARGE part to vaccinations and other health benefits from the US government.

You enjoy relatively clean air and water because of those nasty anti-pollution regulation, all of which require significant enforcement, and research to monitor and evaluate. You benefit from not having planes drop down as they crash from lack of controls.

You don't see thousands of starving people around, creating increased theft and disease problems.

ETC.
and no, that is nowhere near a complete list.

So GET REAL.

What part of "I pay a shit load of taxes" did you miss?

and even if you were close, it's not like I am calling the police on the 1st and 15th of every month to help me out, or scamming free lunches at the local school everyday, and as for roads well they are constantly under construction and currently frozen with the shut down and usually just cost me over an hour a day
oh yes, I am benefiting sooooo much.

Scamming free lunches at the local school every day? You really are a piece of work, Phatscotty...and I mean that in the worst possible way.

What part of "I pay a shit load of taxes" did you miss?

The part where you accept that a LOT of people contributed to your "self-earned" income and status.

I have payed a million times more in taxes than I could ever hope to use the rest of my life.

Is this another one of your statements that you throw out for no reason and then try to pretend you never said?

Because it's just as dumb as those other ones.

I am free. I owe nobody anything, and nobody owes me anything.
You cannot force me into servitude.

Unless you are independently wealthy, you really are not "free" in the sense you seem to be trying to portray, here in the United States of America.

You try to hold people down, and that doesn't surprise me that you would rain on a 4th of July Parade either.

Oh, say can you see by the dawn's early light
What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming
Whose broad stripes and bright stars thru the perilous fight,
O'er the ramparts we watched were so gallantly streaming
And the rocket's red glare, the bombs bursting in air,
Gave proof through the night that our flag was still there.
Oh, say does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O'er the land of the free and the home of the brave

Do you ever say anything that contains real meaning any more?

true grit is in order

p.s. if I have my way, taxpayers will no longer subsidize drug addictions.

That's demonstrably false, since we're subsidizing their use by others than welfare recipients. But that's ok, because you're ax-handle isn't pointed in their direction.

[Woodruff]

It's sad that on this long weekend where we celebrate our freedoms, so many people have chosen to rely on the government for all of their needs. And what's even worse is that some people even now believe it's the government's job to take from some to redistribute to others. We have fallen so far from the principles that founded this great nation. Yet some want us to fall even further. We are quickly losing our status as the premier country for freedom and replacing it with being the people who are the most reliant on government.

None of that is the reason for this nation's problems. THE reason for this nation's problems lies squarely in A Brave New World.

Anywho, I'm gone for the rest of day to celebrate our God-given freedoms. Hopefully, despite the constant barrage from progressives, we'll still have many more years to celebrate them.

God has nothing at all to do with any of our freedoms.

[PLAYER57832]

yes, roads, air and water, being protected, yes yes yes. Also, yes, I do pay plenty for those things, and also (our lottery system helps with the roads here). There are just too many people who pay 0$. It isn't working.

Now you are catching on...

I know I know, stfu and pay more...

Well, I did not think you were in the top 2% of America or that you were the head of a large corporation, but if you are... then yes!

[Night Strike]

You have your wonderful home-school creationist science education that teaches you none of what I says is real or matters and of course, why should you even bother to question why so many decided that what was taught in the 1800's might not be entirely accurate.

I wasn't homeschooled. I learned the same evolutionary lies everyone else learned.

And what's even worse is that some people even now believe it's the government's job to take from some to redistribute to others. We have fallen so far from the principles that founded this great nation. Yet some want us to fall even further. We are quickly losing our status as the premier country for freedom and replacing it with being the people who are the most reliant on government.

The saddest part is that you are just ignorant enough of history, egotistical enough and plain stupid enough to believe this applies to people like myself and my husband and our forefathers instead of the likes of you a Phattscotty.

"happy fourth indeed" and thank heavans our ancestors were not as idiotic as you two!

Just shows you have no clue what actually happened in the time around 1776. Have you ever even read the Declaration of Independence? They were throwing off an oppressive and tyrannical government in favor of self governance and a dependence on the Creator God. The ones who are ignorant of that are the ones who are today trying to turn our country into a massive program of redistribution. And I'm not the ignorant one, that's for sure.

LOL, LOL, LOL, LOL

Nice fiction. When you care to study reality... we can talk again.
Except.. if you have your way, NO ONE will ever be able to study reality, because all the truths will be buried under the fictional ideology you have created.

So it's fiction that we rebelled against a tyrannical government? It's fiction that we declared that rights are God-given and that we are not peasants of a king? It's fiction that progressives are using our current government to redistribute wealth? Each of those comments have demonstrative proof, yet you claim they are fiction. And YOU live in reality??? Since when?

God has nothing at all to do with any of our freedoms.

Have you read the Declaration of Independence? It's because we are endowed by our Creator with inalienable rights that we stood up to the tyrannical king and choose to chart a new path not only for ourselves, but ultimately for the entire course of the world. About 15 years later while trying to pass the Constitution, the question being asked was "Is man capable of ruling himself?" The answer: "Only a moral one who relies on God." Contrary to the constant barrage of revisionism over the past 50 years (coincidentally when the federal government started taking over our education system), this country WAS founded through moral and upright people who trusted God with the actions necessary to create the country.

[notyou2]

You have your wonderful home-school creationist science education that teaches you none of what I says is real or matters and of course, why should you even bother to question why so many decided that what was taught in the 1800's might not be entirely accurate.

I wasn't homeschooled. I learned the same evolutionary lies everyone else learned.

And what's even worse is that some people even now believe it's the government's job to take from some to redistribute to others. We have fallen so far from the principles that founded this great nation. Yet some want us to fall even further. We are quickly losing our status as the premier country for freedom and replacing it with being the people who are the most reliant on government.

The saddest part is that you are just ignorant enough of history, egotistical enough and plain stupid enough to believe this applies to people like myself and my husband and our forefathers instead of the likes of you a Phattscotty.

"happy fourth indeed" and thank heavans our ancestors were not as idiotic as you two!

Just shows you have no clue what actually happened in the time around 1776. Have you ever even read the Declaration of Independence? They were throwing off an oppressive and tyrannical government in favor of self governance and a dependence on the Creator God. The ones who are ignorant of that are the ones who are today trying to turn our country into a massive program of redistribution. And I'm not the ignorant one, that's for sure.

LOL, LOL, LOL, LOL

Nice fiction. When you care to study reality... we can talk again.
Except.. if you have your way, NO ONE will ever be able to study reality, because all the truths will be buried under the fictional ideology you have created.

So it's fiction that we rebelled against a tyrannical government? It's fiction that we declared that rights are God-given and that we are not peasants of a king? It's fiction that progressives are using our current government to redistribute wealth? Each of those comments have demonstrative proof, yet you claim they are fiction. And YOU live in reality??? Since when?

God has nothing at all to do with any of our freedoms.

Have you read the Declaration of Independence? It's because we are endowed by our Creator with inalienable rights that we stood up to the tyrannical king and choose to chart a new path not only for ourselves, but ultimately for the entire course of the world. About 15 years later while trying to pass the Constitution, the question being asked was "Is man capable of ruling himself?" The answer: "Only a moral one who relies on God." Contrary to the constant barrage of revisionism over the past 50 years (coincidentally when the federal government started taking over our education system), this country WAS founded through moral and upright people who trusted God with the actions necessary to create the country.

BWAHAHAHA!!!!!

[natty dread]

I wasn't homeschooled. I learned the same evolutionary lies everyone else learned.

What lies are those, exactly?

[GreecePwns]

You have your wonderful home-school creationist science education that teaches you none of what I says is real or matters and of course, why should you even bother to question why so many decided that what was taught in the 1800's might not be entirely accurate.

I wasn't homeschooled. I learned the same evolutionary lies everyone else learned.

God has nothing at all to do with any of our freedoms.

Have you read the Declaration of Independence? It's because we are endowed by our Creator with inalienable rights that we stood up to the tyrannical king and choose to chart a new path not only for ourselves, but ultimately for the entire course of the world. About 15 years later while trying to pass the Constitution, the question being asked was "Is man capable of ruling himself?" The answer: "Only a moral one who relies on God." Contrary to the constant barrage of revisionism over the past 50 years (coincidentally when the federal government started taking over our education system), this country WAS founded through moral and upright people who trusted God with the actions necessary to create the country.

[/quote]

I believe there is a God, but I am not deluded. This song is very appropriate now:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxUJnR3o ... re=related

We are gathered here tonight
To pay tribute to our Lord
Any money
Unto me
Oooooooh Lawwwwwwwwd in Heaven
Let us pray
You TV viewers
Give me your pay and see
M I C
K E Y
M O U S E

[PLAYER57832]

You have your wonderful home-school creationist science education that teaches you none of what I says is real or matters and of course, why should you even bother to question why so many decided that what was taught in the 1800's might not be entirely accurate.

I wasn't homeschooled. I learned the same evolutionary lies everyone else learned.

If you consider them lies, then you obviously were NOT taught evolution.. something that became quite apparent in the evolution thread a ways back.

Critical thinking was apparently lacking as well. See, critical thinking doesn't just mean you criticize those ideas with which you disagree, it means you question everything, particularly those ideas you hold the dearest, because when we hold strongly to ideas.. that is when we are most likely to have made an error. It is precisely how fanaticism is born.

And what's even worse is that some people even now believe it's the government's job to take from some to redistribute to others.

Yes, we know, Reagan was happy to give the wealthy money on the false idea of "trickle down". He knew it was false, even at the time, but he saw it as a way to boost political power. He foresaw the boom in business that was coming and felt he should give the bigwigs a nice thank you present. In his defense, he did see the decreases in taxes, etc as temporary measures.

What I find incredible (OK, not really, given your mentality ) is that you believe the old rhetoric about it being the fault of the poor that the economy is in the tank. Except, you can't even make up your mind about that. You blame welfare recipients, are in favor of testing that will cost money for taxpayers... then turn around and talk about people paying no tax being a problem but also declare that any tax increase is a no go because you are already paying enough! Don't you get that if big businesses have to pay more of their true responsibilities, your liability becomes less. Not just your direct tax liability, but the generals costs you incur go down... everything from treating the water you drink (even if you are on a well.. that will only last until some corporation destroys your well.. as they have for many around here) to the roads you drive (NOT being maintained... estimates are it will take 2 TRILLION just to bring roads and bridges up to basic specifications again!) to breathing clean air. (how many people do you know who use air filters today? .. or who would if they did not have air conditioners!)

Nope, you won't see that.. you just want to blame people on welfare and illegal immigrants. Why not? They can hardly fight back. Yep, you are doing the dirty work of the very people who are increasing your tax bill.. and you won't even admit it, because you just want to believe the garbage THEY tell you instead of thinking about and questioning. Frankly, in many cases, your own data doesn't support your claims! You just don't bother reading it and skip straight to the rhetoric.

So it's fiction that we rebelled against a tyrannical government?

Not what I said, no... bgut continue with your fictional strawman arguments. And, in truth, people of the day were actually throwing one king over for a landed elite that would still dominate. It took many more steps before we got anything close to the near universal prosperity and access to opportunities we have enjoyed for a couple of generations now. Those steps include many of the things you now disdain.. ranging from government give-aways of land to free universal education, open access to the media, minimum wages, safety rules, and yes, even basic healthcare and food needs.

Those are the things that helped make our nation great, that allowed the dream of a poor guy who was born in another country, who grew up picking crops, that folks like him could become astronauts, attorneys.. even business men. It is those things that allow a man born to a single mother, of mixed race even, to rise to become President of the United States. And, regardless of whether you like his politics or not, that is something not likely to happen anywhere else on earth.

yet.. you are quite happy to see all that destroyed, because some very, very, very wealthy people at the top have you convinced they shouldn't pay a dime more in taxes.. because your money is going to feed hungry illegal aliens and folks on drugs.

It's fiction that we declared that rights are God-given and that we are not peasants of a king?

That's debated, but the bottom line is that how each signatory viewed God differed-- differed probably even more than your and my view of God differ. And, importantly, by the time we got to the Constitution and the Bill of Rights, there was inserted the declaration that no federal law shall be seen to establish any religion. There was no limitation such as you wish to insert "but that only applies to Christian religions". Sure, some might have wished that, but it did not happen.

It's fiction that progressives are using our current government to redistribute wealth?

Ah yes.. well, no, I believe is biggleboogies who are destroying america... and I dare you to disprove it! See how that works? You cannot possibly dispute this because biggleboogies is a term I invented that means "those who are destroying America". So, if you wish to claim that those who are destroying America are called "progressives".. go for it. If you wish to talk about actual policies or real people.. that is what I generally do.

Each of those comments have demonstrative proof, yet you claim they are fiction.

No, in fact, I did not, although I did address a couple of these new points above.

And YOU live in reality??? Since when?

Well, that isn't the name of my town, no. However, I DO verify things (and know how to do so, which you , to all appearances don't.. don't seem to even understand that its important, in fact). I make errors, and admit them. I don't throw out these stupid strawman arguments while ignoring real points and pretend it is a real debate. About like what currently passes for political debate, but not true debating.

[PLAYER57832]

I wasn't homeschooled. I learned the same evolutionary lies everyone else learned.

What lies are those, exactly?

There are several old, quite lengthy threads on that. I am not sure if you were around in the forums then or not.

[Night Strike]

And what's even worse is that some people even now believe it's the government's job to take from some to redistribute to others.

Yes, we know, Reagan was happy to give the wealthy money on the false idea of "trickle down". He knew it was false, even at the time, but he saw it as a way to boost political power. He foresaw the boom in business that was coming and felt he should give the bigwigs a nice thank you present. In his defense, he did see the decreases in taxes, etc as temporary measures.

Except that there is no evidence that trickle down policies failed. Have you ever been given a job by a poor person? If so, then you may be the first. What we DO have proof of is that government spending policies utterly fail in driving job growth. It not only takes massive of money out of the private sector, but it also is used to pay off political allies or to fund bureaucratic gridlock. It's impossible for the government to tax and spend our economy into prosperity. Only a vibrant private sector can do that.

What I find incredible (OK, not really, given your mentality ) is that you believe the old rhetoric about it being the fault of the poor that the economy is in the tank. Except, you can't even make up your mind about that. You blame welfare recipients, are in favor of testing that will cost money for taxpayers... then turn around and talk about people paying no tax being a problem but also declare that any tax increase is a no go because you are already paying enough! Don't you get that if big businesses have to pay more of their true responsibilities, your liability becomes less. Not just your direct tax liability, but the generals costs you incur go down... everything from treating the water you drink (even if you are on a well.. that will only last until some corporation destroys your well.. as they have for many around here) to the roads you drive (NOT being maintained... estimates are it will take 2 TRILLION just to bring roads and bridges up to basic specifications again!) to breathing clean air. (how many people do you know who use air filters today? .. or who would if they did not have air conditioners!)

Taxes on companies go up yet costs go down?? How the hell does that happen?? Every single tax you place on a business gets passed onto its customers (or even worse, its employees through layoffs, lower wages, or fewer hours). You think your massive taxes on companies exist in a vacuum, but they don't.

Nope, you won't see that.. you just want to blame people on welfare and illegal immigrants. Why not? They can hardly fight back. Yep, you are doing the dirty work of the very people who are increasing your tax bill.. and you won't even admit it, because you just want to believe the garbage THEY tell you instead of thinking about and questioning. Frankly, in many cases, your own data doesn't support your claims! You just don't bother reading it and skip straight to the rhetoric.

Welfare recipients and illegal immigrants have plenty of political defenders in the current system. It's why we can't get anything fixed regarding those situations.

It took many more steps before we got anything close to the near universal prosperity and access to opportunities we have enjoyed for a couple of generations now. Those steps include many of the things you now disdain.. ranging from government give-aways of land to free universal education, open access to the media, minimum wages, safety rules, and yes, even basic healthcare and food needs.

Universal prosperity was NOT something fought for at the founding of this nation. They fought for universal FREEDOM. Universal prosperity is a) impossible to achieve as forced equal wages means no incentive to work and b) the complete antithesis of universal freedom as the only way to achieve it is through forcing people to turn over their wealth to give to those who have less.