D.T.W.A.

[jgordon1111]

radiojake. if you are offended be that way toward those who refuse to help themselves you missed my point in the topic of those 2 instances 1st my sister in law decided a half day into work that it wasnt for her and welfare was easier. 2nd the lady with the scratch tickets made it very clear where her desires were,when she told me her children would be on welfare too. these are the people i am talking about the ones who choose to be in the system and have no desire of helping themselves and then teach their children that it is better than getting a job. i am not talking about the people who by no design of their own have to swallow their pride and accept assistance. i will in the future endeavor to be more clear on my statements

[Phatscotty]

Rehab isn't always the answer anyways, so you are wrong too.

Never said they were.

The person needs to decide to be ready before rehab is every going to work, and threatening to cut off an addicts welfare check is a great time for the addict to decide.

Here, I disagree as I explained above.

My point was that you were wrong.. yet you keep attempting to bounce around and STILL cannot even admit honestly that you were just wrong. (and yes, I admit when I am wrong, frequently.. but holding and opinion that differs from yours doesn't mean I am wrong. Putting down incorrect information does.)

ALSO, you STILL don't seem to get that the problem here is not even as much cutting off welfare checks for convicted of drug use, it is testing ALL APPLICANTS and randomly testing others.. amounts that are only refunded if they happen to actually qualify for welfare. THAT is the biggest problem. This program is not designed to catch people on drugs, it is designed to earn money for the testing company and to penalize anyone who dares APPLY for welfare.

I specifically remember copy-pasting it. You have less proof that the post in question does not exist. I wonder if anyone else with any amount of honor can throw it on the line and say the remember reading that post?

I can't find it and I'm wondering if it might have been in another link, as this debate has spilled over into other threads thanks to Woodruff, as you see today in the Guns preventing killings in Norway thread.

Your point is pointless

IT DOES NOT MATTER BECAUSE YOU OBVIOUSLY MIS READ THE REPORT YOU POSTED! That is why you could not find it again! And.. I DID find not just one source, but multiple sources, including several with titles of "free rehab clinics in Florida", which is what made me think I found the link you saught.. and the clinics listed were mostly not for drugs.

And yet... despite my giving you contrary data, you keep insisting that you are correct and everyone else is wrong. That is the definition of poor integrity.

Alright, so lets go with that. Despite what I said and what you said, lets talk about how it is.

Can I understand that your whole point is there are less rehab options than one of my many posts supposes? Okay, so.....what do we need to do about this? Why is this our problem and not the drug users problem? I say no to drugs all the time because I don't think they are a smart thing to do. That's on me. Why in the world is a group of people who say yes to drugs and get bent on them and abuse the welfare system even more my problem than welfare in the first place is?

It sounds like you are saying there are many levels of help that the bottom luckers of society needs, at an ever increases size and scope. I sound like I am saying they need a little self help, and that's the most important aspect of what the title of this thread will provide to many people who's lives and families are destroyed by drug abuse.

Easy money is spent easily, and as far as escaping problems when one has many, it does not get any easier than drugs.

[Woodruff]

woodruff never saw your rank in the forum.didnt know you had made it public.guessed that you were military in the way you state your points.

So now you've got me curious...is that a compliment or not a compliment? <grin>

[jgordon1111]

lol woodruff i would say compliment. others may not think so but i do.know the style well.

[PLAYER57832]

Alright, so lets go with that. Despite what I said and what you said, lets talk about how it is.

Can I understand that your whole point is there are less rehab options than one of my many posts supposes? Okay, so.....what do we need to do about this? Why is this our problem and not the drug users problem? I say no to drugs all the time because I don't think they are a smart thing to do. That's on me. Why in the world is a group of people who say yes to drugs and get bent on them and abuse the welfare system even more my problem than welfare in the first place is?

It sounds like you are saying there are many levels of help that the bottom luckers of society needs, at an ever increases size and scope. I sound like I am saying they need a little self help, and that's the most important aspect of what the title of this thread will provide to many people who's lives and families are destroyed by drug abuse.

Easy money is spent easily, and as far as escaping problems when one has many, it does not get any easier than drugs.

My problem all along, consistantly, has been that this testing regime is nowhere near effective.
Beyond that, you were making a bunch of absurd claims, including that there were drug rehab clinics in every county in Florida.

[Phatscotty]

There was a company's website I copy pasted. It was 2/3 private and 1/3 gov't and offered free rehab to people who made under 16k and it said it had offices in virtually every country in Florida. I clicked on the location finder, and a list of 50 or so counties came up, I also listed the website and the name of the company.

It's not absurd at all. I mean, looking around in my state, and realizing it's different from Florida, but there are free clinics everywhere around here, and people can access them from the state insurance program we have here that costs 4$/month. Just saying, what you call "absurd" is pretty f'n normal here.

Are you trying to say there are zero clinics, or very few in Florida? What's your point

[Woodruff]

lol woodruff i would say compliment. others may not think so but i do.know the style well.

In that case, thank you. I appreciate you saying so.

[Woodruff]

There was a company's website I copy pasted. It was 2/3 private and 1/3 gov't and offered free rehab to people who made under 16k and it said it had offices in virtually every country in Florida. I clicked on the location finder, and a list of 50 or so counties came up, I also listed the website and the name of the company.

It's not absurd at all. I mean, looking around in my state, and realizing it's different from Florida, but there are free clinics everywhere around here, and people can access them from the state insurance program we have here that costs 4$/month. Just saying, what you call "absurd" is pretty f'n normal here.

Are you trying to say there are zero clinics, or very few in Florida? What's your point

She's stated her point. Quite clearly. Many times in this thread. You seem to continue to intentionally overlook it.

[natty dread]

radiojake. if you are offended be that way toward those who refuse to help themselves you missed my point in the topic of those 2 instances 1st my sister in law decided a half day into work that it wasnt for her and welfare was easier. 2nd the lady with the scratch tickets made it very clear where her desires were,when she told me her children would be on welfare too. these are the people i am talking about the ones who choose to be in the system and have no desire of helping themselves and then teach their children that it is better than getting a job. i am not talking about the people who by no design of their own have to swallow their pride and accept assistance. i will in the future endeavor to be more clear on my statements

You obviously didn't understand radiojake's point at all.

[Phatscotty]

Rx for Danger: Number of Florida babies born addicted to drugs skyrockets
The number of newborns treated for drug-withdrawal syndrome at Florida hospitals increased 42% in 2010.
July 31, 2011|By Amy Pavuk, Orlando Sentinel

The number of babies treated at Florida hospitals for drug-withdrawal syndrome continued to skyrocket last year, further evidence of the far-reaching impact of the state's prescription-drug epidemic.

In 2010, 1,374 babies were born addicted to drugs because their mothers were users — a 42 percent increase from the year prior, according to new Agency for Health Care Administration records obtained by the Orlando Sentinel.

Florida needs to get serious about drug abuse.

[natty dread]

Yes, drug abuse needs to be treated. A good start would be to stop prosecuting drug abusers as criminals and start treating them as people with a disease or disability (one that is curable).

And no, this does not include conducting drug tests for welfare applicants, since that's just stupid and benefits no one except for the guys who make money off it.

[PLAYER57832]

Exactly, this testing regime is not about stopping drug abuse...at all.

[Woodruff]

Rx for Danger: Number of Florida babies born addicted to drugs skyrockets
The number of newborns treated for drug-withdrawal syndrome at Florida hospitals increased 42% in 2010.
July 31, 2011|By Amy Pavuk, Orlando Sentinel

The number of babies treated at Florida hospitals for drug-withdrawal syndrome continued to skyrocket last year, further evidence of the far-reaching impact of the state's prescription-drug epidemic.

In 2010, 1,374 babies were born addicted to drugs because their mothers were users — a 42 percent increase from the year prior, according to new Agency for Health Care Administration records obtained by the Orlando Sentinel.

Florida needs to get serious about drug abuse.

Yes, they absolutely need to get serious about drug abuse, instead of trying to make policies that make it look like they're doing something but are really just sweeping the problem under the rug to the profit of the Governor.

[Phatscotty]

That's just the thing though. It will stop drug abuse, because that's the only way you can get welfare.

Trust me, they will quit, and their lives and their families will be far better off (both of which you don't care about at all).

Tough Love, One Love

[PLAYER57832]

That's just the thing though. It will stop drug abuse, because that's the only way you can get welfare.

No, because.. again, most people on drugs are not on welfare and most people on welfare are not on drugs.

Trust me, they will quit, and their lives and their families will be far better off (both of which you don't care about at all).

OH BULL.
ALL we have been talking about is that your claims to "solution" are just baloney. WE advocate real solutions. You advocate a show.

Tough Love, One Love

No, more like too stupid to know that stereotypes are not real.

You want to believe that drug addicts = people on welfare=drug addicts. No DATA, no FACTS will dissuade you because you want to believe that you are somehow superior to anyone in that position. THAT is the real truth. And you won't bother to try and understand because if you did, then you might find yourself somewher in that picture.

And yes.. I am fully aware that you will simply laugh and not even bother to understand what I or Woodruff or natty or anyone else is saying. That is the nature of idiots.. you refuse to listen to people who disagree with you.

[Woodruff]

That's just the thing though. It will stop drug abuse, because that's the only way you can get welfare. Trust me, they will quit, and their lives and their families will be far better off (both of which you don't care about at all).
Tough Love, One Love

You are an idiot. And strangely you seem to be very proud of that fact.

[Phatscotty]

That's just the thing though. It will stop drug abuse, because that's the only way you can get welfare. Trust me, they will quit, and their lives and their families will be far better off (both of which you don't care about at all).
Tough Love, One Love

You are a god. And strangely you seem to be very proud of that fact.

It's like people who have a heart attack scare, and immediately quit smoking because the side effects are for real now.

Likewise welfare drug abusers all throughout Florida have felt that all too real jolt shoot up their spines and realize that they now have a deadline on when to quit using drugs, otherwise there won't be a free handout for them.

It is time for them to get their shit together and realize they are stealing and abusing the system and just because certain whackos stand behind them and allow them to keep abusing doesnt make it right.

[Woodruff]

That's just the thing though. It will stop drug abuse, because that's the only way you can get welfare. Trust me, they will quit, and their lives and their families will be far better off (both of which you don't care about at all).
Tough Love, One Love

You are a god. And strangely you seem to be very proud of that fact.

It's like people who have a heart attack scare, and immediately quit smoking because the side effects are for real now.
Likewise welfare drug abusers all throughout Florida have felt that all too real jolt shoot up their spines and realize that they now have a deadline on when to quit using drugs, otherwise there won't be a free handout for them.
It is time for them to get their shit together and realize they are stealing and abusing the system and just because certain whackos stand behind them and allow them to keep abusing doesnt make it right.

It is time for you to join the rest of us in the real world where your plan won't help halt drug abuse AT ALL (not even a tiny bit), but WILL increase crime in the state, guaranteed.

And stop changing my quotes, you fucking coward.

[spurgistan]

Preliminary results show 2% of welfare recipients fail a drug test.

According to the 2009 National Survey on Drug Use and Health, performed by the U.S. Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services, 8.7 percent of the population nationally over age 12 uses illicit drugs. The rate was 6.3 percent for those ages 26 and up.

Oops. I suppose we'll be hearing an apology from Rick Scott soon for wasting Floridians money, as well as wrongly insulting the poor of his state, who really have it hard enough.

[jimboston]

Preliminary results show 2% of welfare recipients fail a drug test.

According to the 2009 National Survey on Drug Use and Health, performed by the U.S. Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services, 8.7 percent of the population nationally over age 12 uses illicit drugs. The rate was 6.3 percent for those ages 26 and up.

Oops. I suppose we'll be hearing an apology from Rick Scott soon for wasting Floridians money, as well as wrongly insulting the poor of his state, who really have it hard enough.

Maybe this just proves that the 'professional' dug abusers (who also collect welfare) know how to beat the system?

Also... from the article...

"The initiative may save the state a few dollars anyway, bearing out one of Gov. Rick Scott's arguments for implementing it."

and

"Net savings to the state... over 12 months, the money saved on all rejected applicants would add up to $40,800-$98,400..."

[PLAYER57832]

Preliminary results show 2% of welfare recipients fail a drug test.

According to the 2009 National Survey on Drug Use and Health, performed by the U.S. Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services, 8.7 percent of the population nationally over age 12 uses illicit drugs. The rate was 6.3 percent for those ages 26 and up.

Oops. I suppose we'll be hearing an apology from Rick Scott soon for wasting Floridians money, as well as wrongly insulting the poor of his state, who really have it hard enough.

Maybe this just proves that the 'professional' dug abusers (who also collect welfare) know how to beat the system?

NO. In fact, if anything, the rate among those on welfare is much LOWER, not higher. I posted the data on that a long time ago. You ignored it then, though, so I see no reason why posting it again will help anything.

[jimboston]

Preliminary results show 2% of welfare recipients fail a drug test.

According to the 2009 National Survey on Drug Use and Health, performed by the U.S. Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services, 8.7 percent of the population nationally over age 12 uses illicit drugs. The rate was 6.3 percent for those ages 26 and up.

Oops. I suppose we'll be hearing an apology from Rick Scott soon for wasting Floridians money, as well as wrongly insulting the poor of his state, who really have it hard enough.

Maybe this just proves that the 'professional' dug abusers (who also collect welfare) know how to beat the system?

NO. In fact, if anything, the rate among those on welfare is much LOWER, not higher. I posted the data on that a long time ago. You ignored it then, though, so I see no reason why posting it again will help anything.

This "fact" does not match my real world experience working with the Boston Housing Authority.

Liberals are just as good at manipulating statistics as anyone.

[spurgistan]

Preliminary results show 2% of welfare recipients fail a drug test.

According to the 2009 National Survey on Drug Use and Health, performed by the U.S. Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services, 8.7 percent of the population nationally over age 12 uses illicit drugs. The rate was 6.3 percent for those ages 26 and up.

Oops. I suppose we'll be hearing an apology from Rick Scott soon for wasting Floridians money, as well as wrongly insulting the poor of his state, who really have it hard enough.

Maybe this just proves that the 'professional' dug abusers (who also collect welfare) know how to beat the system?

NO. In fact, if anything, the rate among those on welfare is much LOWER, not higher. I posted the data on that a long time ago. You ignored it then, though, so I see no reason why posting it again will help anything.

This "fact" does not match my real world experience working with the Boston Housing Authority.

Liberals are just as good at manipulating statistics as anyone.

Certainly, there are lies, damned lies and statistics. No dispute there. However, Rick Scott spent a lot of dollars (ironic, given that the company controlled by Mrs. Scott made quite a few dollars) to prove a point - that people on welfare are druggies. Welfare queens, etc. Well, this study goes against that assertion. So I, along with most people against criminalizing poverty, laugh at him and Florida for being weird enough to elect him.

[Phatscotty]

Spurgistan. How much money is a lot? Which company did Scott make a boatload of money on?

Drug abuse causes problems. Drug abuse is the reason why many people end up living off of other people. They get addicted, lose their job, get kicked out of their home/evicted, they burnt the bridges that might have let them stay with their family or friends, so then it becomes everyone's problem. With the exception of the mentally ill, people do not end up sleeping under bridges because they can't find a job. They sleep under bridges because alcohol or drugs prevent them from keeping a job

Your BS stats do not match anything real world I have personally experienced in Minnesota or New York for that matter, or any of my friends situations.

Neighborhoods that get the most welfare checks are the same neighborhoods where you can buy your drugs on any corner in broad daylight.

You guys are fooling anyone, and this program will help drug addicts more than any $300 check ever will.

[spurgistan]

Spurgistan. How much money is a lot? Which company did Scott make a boatload of money on?

Drug abuse causes problems. Drug abuse is the reason why many people end up living off of other people. They get addicted, lose their job, get kicked out of their home/evicted, they burnt the bridges that might have let them stay with their family or friends, so then it becomes everyone's problem. With the exception of the mentally ill, people do not end up sleeping under bridges because they can't find a job. They sleep under bridges because alcohol or drugs prevent them from keeping a job

Your BS stats do not match anything real world I have personally experienced in Minnesota or New York for that matter, or any of my friends situations.

Neighborhoods that get the most welfare checks are the same neighborhoods where you can buy your drugs on any corner in broad daylight.

You guys are fooling anyone, and this program will help drug addicts more than any $300 check ever will.

2% of welfare recipients tested positive for banned drugs. Even if we assume that, somehow, cutting off welfare benefits in a recession is a good idea (IT IS NOT!!thousands of exclamation points) and that somehow these people will be able to find jobs (THEY WON'T) the mission of this failed, beyond funneling thousands of dollars to a testing company that Rick Scott used to own and now his wife does.

I mostly responded to this because I liked that bolded typo.

Who buys drugs on the streets where welfare checks are cashed? There's no way a young phatscotty would have rolled in the hood to score some weed, is there?

Don't try to make Rick Scott out to be compassionate. You're not just fooling anybody, you're fooling yourself.