Game of Thrones (series spoiling only!)

[waauw]

I think this last one was the best episode so far.

[strike wolf]

I have to admit. The only part that made an impression other than Cersei's arrest were those particularly nice breasts.

[patches70]

I have to admit. The only part that made an impression other than Cersei's arrest were those particularly nice breasts.

Those breast were amazing. They were hypnotic. The show could redeem itself somewhat for fucking up the Sand Snake characters so badly just by busting out those amazing tits every episode.

[strike wolf]

I can barely get them out of my head.

I dont hate this season. I think it is okay though I admit that the only two plot lines holding any of my interest right now are Sansa's (because I am waiting for her to stab Ramsay in the nut sack) and King's Landing because the Sparrows plot line was the high light of an otherwise lack luster 4th book. Jon's story line might be interesting but they seem rto be intentionally slowing it down probably so the climax is timed well with the season finale. Arya's has been boring but should get a bit more interesting now that the Faceless Men are letting her out to test what skills she may have. Daenerys' plot line is about the same as the books. Mildly interesting but kind of annoying at the same time.

Loras being arrested seems to be to shoehorn a homophobic religious atmosphere that didnt really exist to this extent in the books even after the Sparrows rose up. Homosexuality wasnt exactly looked upon well but there was never obvious religious implications as I remember.

[strike wolf]

Overall I do hate that they have messed up the better parts of Briennes storyline.

[denominator]

I feel like they're simultaneously sandbagging this season (intentionally) and blasting through it (intentionally).

The fourth book is a chore to read, and from what I understand it was a chore for Martin to write as well. From what I have heard, it was never supposed to even exist - the series was original 2 sets of 3 books, with a 5 year gap between them (to allow the characters to age up appropriately). Martin gave up on this trying to write the fourth book and ended up adding a bunch of filler (the Dorne and Iron Islands storylines) to pass the time while still throwing in snippets of the characters we care about. Keep in mind this is my understanding before lampooning me.

So the writers of the show were forced to make a big decision at the end of season 4. Do they follow the books and shock the audience by ignoring key characters for long periods of time, and introduce a bunch of new characters and new storylines that the audience doesn't care about, or do they accelerate through the boring parts and jump the books. For the most part, it seems like the latter and that the end of season 5 will be mostly at or past the end of the fifth book (I suspect this is why there is no Bran this season).

Then, they hit a second big decision - whether to follow the story beyond the fifth book and spoil it for devoted book fans, or to tell a different story in the same world with the same characters. Again, for the most part it seems to be the latter [avoiding spoilers as much as possible, there have been significant changes to the Tyrion, Jaime, Brienne, and Sansa storylines] along with the typical minor changes that work better on screen than in the books (like the Loras/Margaery storyline typically following the same arc, but with different plot points). I have a strong suspicion that as we move further ahead of the books, the stories will drift further apart. Anyone that has read all the books will already know that the first season followed the book almost exactly, and since then the stories have gradually drifted apart.

This is where I think the slow-down comes in. The reason that the major deaths (Ned, Robb Stark, Oberyn, Tywin, etc) carry such weight is that the show actually gives the audience time to attach to characters. Even the first king's, Robert Baratheon, death did not carry as much weight as other deaths because he was only around for 5/6 episodes. We only cared about the character because we were told he was important, not because he became important or a fan favourite. So the series has to have long character development scenes and slower episodes/seasons to build the characters and gradually introduce new ones, so that we care about them when/if they die. That's why we've gotten so much development of the Bolton storyline, the Stannis storyline, the Jon storyline, the Daenerys storyline, etc etc etc - it is necessary to move the story along. It can't all be season 4 with a whole bunch of deaths all over the place, you'd quickly run out of characters to kill.

All that being said, they've completely fucked up the Jaime/sandsnakes storyline (but, finally: boobs). Each scene with the sandsnakes has been very poorly written (even the boobs one, but the writing really didn't matter there). If you think back to the great scenes in earlier seasons, or even this season, there is character development without being either plot-driven or slapping you in the face with it. The sandsnakes either directly discuss the plot, or are absurdly ham-fisted character development (Obara is vengeance, Tyene is sexuality, Nym is subtlety).

I also agree - I thought there would be a major step forward in the Jon storyline by now, but it seems we're only going to get one big reveal this season. They are sandbagging the shit out of that storyline, while accelerating the Tyrion storyline tremendously (Young Griff, anyone?!).

[strike wolf]

Well Martin has said he will release the sixth book before HBO comes out with season 6.

[waauw]

Well Martin has said he will release the sixth book before HBO comes out with season 6.

He said he's "trying" to get the book released before that. He wasn't even certain about that.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Well Martin has said he will release the sixth book before HBO comes out with season 6.

He said he's "trying" to get the book released before that. He wasn't even certain about that.

Fat bastard. He won't be able to.

-TG

[Army of GOD]

I thought the episode was really good (finally saw it today). Even though the Sand Snakes scene was meh, I thought it was much better than their previous one (also, boobs).

A lot of pieces in place for a big payoff soon though

[betiko]

episode 8 anyone? mindlblowing! :p

seriously though, I like notyou2's analysis.
I do think the scenarists are doing a great job. It's great that this season book readers are getting great revelations at the same time as show watchers exclusives.

For me, the only thing that makes no sense at all is the cersei storyline. She can't be smart enough to go for certain political decisions, and then put an uncontrolable guy as the high scepton, a person no one can have any leverage on. It just doesn't make any sense. If she is that stupid, well she would've done a huge amount of epic mistakes by now. Sure, she isn't the brightest, but she has never been stupid enough to give that much power to someone she could not have any leverage on.

[muy_thaiguy]

episode 8 anyone? mindlblowing! :p

seriously though, I like notyou2's analysis.
I do think the scenarists are doing a great job. It's great that this season book readers are getting great revelations at the same time as show watchers exclusives.

For me, the only thing that makes no sense at all is the cersei storyline. She can't be smart enough to go for certain political decisions, and then put an uncontrolable guy as the high scepton, a person no one can have any leverage on. It just doesn't make any sense. If she is that stupid, well she would've done a huge amount of epic mistakes by now. Sure, she isn't the brightest, but she has never been stupid enough to give that much power to someone she could not have any leverage on.

Uh, Joffery come to mind? Made him king and lost control over him almost immediately. I think the only person Joffery ever had any semblance of respect for was Robert Baratheon, and they weren't even related. Tyrion/Tywin had to reign Joffery in after Joffery executed Ned, had Robert's bastards killed (ironically enough, they had more claim to the throne than he did, in a way), and other disasters.

Joffery's one good idea was to establish a standing army loyal to the crown, but the timing for it could not have been more wrong.

[waauw]

episode 8 anyone? mindlblowing! :p

seriously though, I like notyou2's analysis.
I do think the scenarists are doing a great job. It's great that this season book readers are getting great revelations at the same time as show watchers exclusives.

For me, the only thing that makes no sense at all is the cersei storyline. She can't be smart enough to go for certain political decisions, and then put an uncontrolable guy as the high scepton, a person no one can have any leverage on. It just doesn't make any sense. If she is that stupid, well she would've done a huge amount of epic mistakes by now. Sure, she isn't the brightest, but she has never been stupid enough to give that much power to someone she could not have any leverage on.

Yeah great episode.
The thing about Cersei is, according to the books she went absolutely mad of paranoia after both her father and her son were murdered. In the books that's well, though not in a fun way, portrayed. For some reason they seem to have left that out in the series.

[betiko]

episode 8 anyone? mindlblowing! :p

seriously though, I like notyou2's analysis.
I do think the scenarists are doing a great job. It's great that this season book readers are getting great revelations at the same time as show watchers exclusives.

For me, the only thing that makes no sense at all is the cersei storyline. She can't be smart enough to go for certain political decisions, and then put an uncontrolable guy as the high scepton, a person no one can have any leverage on. It just doesn't make any sense. If she is that stupid, well she would've done a huge amount of epic mistakes by now. Sure, she isn't the brightest, but she has never been stupid enough to give that much power to someone she could not have any leverage on.

Uh, Joffery come to mind? Made him king and lost control over him almost immediately. I think the only person Joffery ever had any semblance of respect for was Robert Baratheon, and they weren't even related. Tyrion/Tywin had to reign Joffery in after Joffery executed Ned, had Robert's bastards killed (ironically enough, they had more claim to the throne than he did, in a way), and other disasters.

Joffery's one good idea was to establish a standing army loyal to the crown, but the timing for it could not have been more wrong.

Lol. So now cersei had her say when Tywin was still around?
Jeoffrey was the elder son of the king of course the lannisters would stick to the official version.
Jeoffrey never was a real threat to the lannisters, he could be crushed like a little insignificant bug as soon as Tywin would ve decided so. Just look at any scene involving jeoffrey and tywin... There has always been leverage to control Jeoffrey. And he could ve been acceptable loss for Tywin had he really been out of control.

[patches70]

Yeah, this was the best episode of the season so far, but the bar wasn't very high to start with.

All the scenes were pretty decent. Arya finally doing something. I liked her little evil smile when she gets handed the poison. Arya hasn't killed anyone in, like, forever, she's ready to get back on that horse. Thank God she wasn't sweeping floors anymore.

Cersi, its always satisfying to see her lapping water off the stone floor like a dog. Though, for supposedly holy men and nuns, don't they see that withholding water from someone to get them to confess is coercion and is pretty much bullshit? Hell, after a long enough time just about anyone would confess anything just to get a drink of water. But meh, Cersi has done worse shit herself so no one feels sorry for her.
What she is too stupid to realize is that she has been such a cunt to so many people that now when she's in dire need of help no one wants to lift a finger to help her. If only she had some sort of champion to save her...

In the East we have Dany and Tyrion. Now I love Tyrion's character. He's witty, he's wise, he's educated. He'd make a great adviser. I liked the conversations between him and Dany even though those conversations were often illogical and made no sense. Dany is going to be a handful for the dwarf though. Jeoffry was bad and under the circumstances Tyrion did a reasonably good job keeping his nephew's psychotic tendencies under control. Dany is going to be a completely different animal though and Tyrion is going to have to be on his toes.
It would be ironic if Tyrion helps Dany conquer Westeros and on the day she assumes the Iron throne or shortly after he realizes what a horrible mistake he's made. Holy shit Dany just may be mad as a hatter. Its hard to tell right now, but she might just turn out to be one horrible ruler taking over from a different sort of horrible ruler. She wants to conquer the whole fucking world and impose upon it her vision of how it ought to be. I can think of fewer more horrible global fates than one such as that and how quickly such an endeavor ends up becoming its own brand of evil. Dany may very well turn out to be the actual penultimate bad guy in this whole affair. Time will tell!
One thing is clear though from their conversations, Dany is as naive as ever. Tyrion will be good for her I think, but I wonder how good it will turn out for Tyrion?

Sam up north gives what he thinks is good advice but I wonder if he'll realize later that his advice could be taken another way? It'll be fun to see how that turns out.

In Winterfell Sansa continues to be just a victim. She's done a lot, er, had a lot of things done to her I mean and she's been everywhere, but her story is exactly the same as its always been. Either she's being manipulated and manhandled by Cersi, Jeoffry, Ramsay, The Hound, LittleFinger or her Aunt, she's always just the weak thing that can't get by. The writers tricked us, got us thinking her time with Littlefinger would help her get out of that funk. That she'd start being a player and and stop being the played, but alas, I suppose it wasn't to be.

In Hardholme, ole Rattleshirt should have chosen his words a little bit more carefully. Hahah! "This is the NORTH!" <Rattleshirt get kicked into a bottomless pit ala the 300 scene> Jon has to stop talking to hot Wildling women because every time he does the hot chick gets dead. Oddly, Mother Mole is a lot hotter in the show than I envisioned from the book.
But the whole scene was great. High production values, good choreography, lots of tension with a musical score that matched very well. I loved the Lemmings scene, all those wights falling over the cliff and the sound their bodies made when they hit the ground, it was great. But I have to wonder, why didn't they just do that in the first place? A nice pincer moved, wights attack the settlement outside the keep and the lemmings hit the keep simultaneously. But whatever, it was cool.
It was great watching the giant stomping wights, tossing them like bad habits and ripping them apart. Lord help the living if the White Walkers get a couple of wight giants in their army.
Then, of course, the ultimate ending. Now that very last bit of the episode was by far the best. The White Walker King having an epic staredown with Jon Snow. The butchering of the last of the living left at the shores, the rising of the dead to join the wight army. And best of all, there at the end, not a sound. No music, no talking, you could hear a pin drop. Ooh that made the scene. It was perfect.

Overall a good episode.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

Cersi, its always satisfying to see her lapping water off the stone floor like a dog. Though, for supposedly holy men and nuns, don't they see that withholding water from someone to get them to confess is coercion and is pretty much bullshit? Hell, after a long enough time just about anyone would confess anything just to get a drink of water.

Uh, have you ever read up on shit the rl Church has done in the past to root out witches, apostates, and the like? Torture, to say the least. I think it's a pretty fair depiction of how a church would get what they want.

-TG

[betiko]

Cersi, its always satisfying to see her lapping water off the stone floor like a dog. Though, for supposedly holy men and nuns, don't they see that withholding water from someone to get them to confess is coercion and is pretty much bullshit? Hell, after a long enough time just about anyone would confess anything just to get a drink of water.

Uh, have you ever read up on shit the rl Church has done in the past to root out witches, apostates, and the like? Torture, to say the least. I think it's a pretty fair depiction of how a church would get what they want.

-TG

that's what I was going to say... Spanish inquisition, rings a bell? What they are doing there to cersei is extremly mild.

[waauw]

In the East we have Dany and Tyrion. Now I love Tyrion's character. He's witty, he's wise, he's educated. He'd make a great adviser. I liked the conversations between him and Dany even though those conversations were often illogical and made no sense.

To be honest I found their conversation somewhat unfulfilling. At the end of their conversation they were talking about a wheel and it seemed obvious the screen writers wanted to make that a vehemently intensive scene, yet it just sounded weird with an unnecessary metaphor.

[muy_thaiguy]

episode 8 anyone? mindlblowing! :p

seriously though, I like notyou2's analysis.
I do think the scenarists are doing a great job. It's great that this season book readers are getting great revelations at the same time as show watchers exclusives.

For me, the only thing that makes no sense at all is the cersei storyline. She can't be smart enough to go for certain political decisions, and then put an uncontrolable guy as the high scepton, a person no one can have any leverage on. It just doesn't make any sense. If she is that stupid, well she would've done a huge amount of epic mistakes by now. Sure, she isn't the brightest, but she has never been stupid enough to give that much power to someone she could not have any leverage on.

Uh, Joffery come to mind? Made him king and lost control over him almost immediately. I think the only person Joffery ever had any semblance of respect for was Robert Baratheon, and they weren't even related. Tyrion/Tywin had to reign Joffery in after Joffery executed Ned, had Robert's bastards killed (ironically enough, they had more claim to the throne than he did, in a way), and other disasters.

Joffery's one good idea was to establish a standing army loyal to the crown, but the timing for it could not have been more wrong.

Lol. So now cersei had her say when Tywin was still around?
Jeoffrey was the elder son of the king of course the lannisters would stick to the official version.
Jeoffrey never was a real threat to the lannisters, he could be crushed like a little insignificant bug as soon as Tywin would ve decided so. Just look at any scene involving jeoffrey and tywin... There has always been leverage to control Jeoffrey. And he could ve been acceptable loss for Tywin had he really been out of control.

No, it's why Tywin/Tyrion had to step in, because Cersei lost control over her son. They took away her power/influence while there and reigned in the little tyrant.

[betiko]

episode 8 anyone? mindlblowing! :p

seriously though, I like notyou2's analysis.
I do think the scenarists are doing a great job. It's great that this season book readers are getting great revelations at the same time as show watchers exclusives.

For me, the only thing that makes no sense at all is the cersei storyline. She can't be smart enough to go for certain political decisions, and then put an uncontrolable guy as the high scepton, a person no one can have any leverage on. It just doesn't make any sense. If she is that stupid, well she would've done a huge amount of epic mistakes by now. Sure, she isn't the brightest, but she has never been stupid enough to give that much power to someone she could not have any leverage on.

Uh, Joffery come to mind? Made him king and lost control over him almost immediately. I think the only person Joffery ever had any semblance of respect for was Robert Baratheon, and they weren't even related. Tyrion/Tywin had to reign Joffery in after Joffery executed Ned, had Robert's bastards killed (ironically enough, they had more claim to the throne than he did, in a way), and other disasters.

Joffery's one good idea was to establish a standing army loyal to the crown, but the timing for it could not have been more wrong.

Lol. So now cersei had her say when Tywin was still around?
Jeoffrey was the elder son of the king of course the lannisters would stick to the official version.
Jeoffrey never was a real threat to the lannisters, he could be crushed like a little insignificant bug as soon as Tywin would ve decided so. Just look at any scene involving jeoffrey and tywin... There has always been leverage to control Jeoffrey. And he could ve been acceptable loss for Tywin had he really been out of control.

No, it's why Tywin/Tyrion had to step in, because Cersei lost control over her son. They took away her power/influence while there and reigned in the little tyrant.

The one true ruler has always been Tywin after Robert, and even while Robert was alive Tywin was the master of puppets. Jeoffrey was just another puppet to contine ruling in the shadow. Cersei has never meant shit in Tywin's organigram. Yeah, marry her with Loras just to strengthen his strategical alliance with the Tyrells.
The only chance cersei has had to become truely powerful, was with the death of tywin and jeoffrey and her second weak as piss son officially in charge.
While trying to weaken the Tyrells and her uncle Kevan and her shenanigans with Baelish could make some sort of sense; the great sparrow thing is completely ridiculous. I thought there might be a very long term plan there with that move.... But it makes absolutely no logical sense and it's so stupid even for cersei. She has never done anything that stupid, plain and simple.

[Army of GOD]

Cersei's biggest mistake was allowing Joffrey to kill Ned Stark


edit: actually, her biggest mistake was fucking her brother

[betiko]

Cersei's biggest mistake was allowing Joffrey to kill Ned Stark


edit: actually, her biggest mistake was fucking her brother

why would that be a mistake? the starks were loyal baratheon vassals; and Ned stark knew perfectly that jeoffrey was a full lannister and nothing of a baratheon. Ned would've fought for Stannis and done everything to discredit Jeoffrey. He could've created a tully-stark-aryn alliance controlling 2/3ds of westeros to fight with Stannis. The Martells would've probably hopped in given their hate for the lannisters. Ned deserved to die.
Tywin's plans to finish destroying the Starks with Frey and Bolton was awesome. Pretty much check mate there.

You guys are giving to much political importance to cersei and joeffrey.

[muy_thaiguy]

At the time he did it? It certainly was a mistake and even Tywin was pissed Joffery did it. Because with Ned a prisoner, the North holds off on going to open war (in the books). And even with war, Ned is a powerful bargaining chip and probably could have traded him for Jaime. Tywin and Tyrion both say this. And Ned's execution is one of the main reasons why Tyrion is sent to King's Landing to, and I quote "reign him in" as Cersei had no control over his actions. Tyrion was one of the few people (along with Tywin) who would not let themselves be bossed around by the little bastard.

[Army of GOD]

Cersei's biggest mistake was allowing Joffrey to kill Ned Stark


edit: actually, her biggest mistake was fucking her brother

why would that be a mistake? the starks were loyal baratheon vassals; and Ned stark knew perfectly that jeoffrey was a full lannister and nothing of a baratheon. Ned would've fought for Stannis and done everything to discredit Jeoffrey. He could've created a tully-stark-aryn alliance controlling 2/3ds of westeros to fight with Stannis. The Martells would've probably hopped in given their hate for the lannisters. Ned deserved to die.
Tywin's plans to finish destroying the Starks with Frey and Bolton was awesome. Pretty much check mate there.

You guys are giving to much political importance to cersei and joeffrey.

Killing Ned led everyone on the north to go to war with the crown. That's a big deal

[betiko]

It s not like cersei had no control over jeoffrey... He loved and respected his mother in his own way. But he was a completely spoiled brat and she would back up all his shit blinded by her maternal love. Being quite a cunt herself, she sure didn t mind her son being a major cunt.

There was going to be a war anyways. Renly and Stannis were going to fight for that throne.
Ned was a major threat to jeoffrey's real identity and to unify the North and center.
Robb wasn t much and no one expected him to become the great military leader he managed to become... For a short period of time.
Sansa and Arya were already available to bargain stuff with the Starks.
Ned was a terribly dangerous man for the Lannister interests.
While Jeoffrey didn t really think anything through and mostly did it because he was a sick bastard, it was the right thing to do.