Romney was Better than Obama

[saxitoxin]

Scott, the urgent nature of the scenario with which you've presented us seems to indicate an unusual and historic emergency will exist if Obama is elected.

For purposes of discussion, if Obama is elected, what specific actions will you take in the one or two years following election day?

Ron Paul 2016!

1. I looked it up and it's been 132 years since a sitting president didn't get his party's nomination so, if you're serious, electing Romney will - for all intents and purposes - block-out Ron Paul from the White House through to his death.

2. Suggesting that a normal election will occur in 2016, the world will continue spinning and everyone can sit out the next four years until the 2016 election, seems to take a lot of the urgency out of the need to eject Obama.

[Phatscotty]

I know the long game. I get it, but it's not worth letting Obama serve another year with no red lights left to stop him, IMO

Ron Paul needs more work in more Primary states, been working on it too long and we've come to far to give up now.

[saxitoxin]

I know the long game. I get it, but it's not worth letting Obama serve another year with no red lights left to stop him, IMO

So, for purposes of discussion, if Obama is re-elected, what specific actions will you take in the one or two years following election day?

Or were you serious about campaigning for Ron Paul, who would be 90 when he finished his terms?

[Woodruff]

Scott, the urgent nature of the scenario with which you've presented us seems to indicate an unusual and historic emergency will exist if Obama is elected.

For purposes of discussion, if Obama is elected, what specific actions will you take in the one or two years following election day?

Ron Paul 2016!

If you won't vote for Gary Johnson, you won't vote for Ron Paul either.

[Woodruff]

I know the long game. I get it, but it's not worth letting Obama serve another year with no red lights left to stop him, IMO

Ron Paul needs more work in more Primary states, been working on it too long and we've come to far to give up now.

You have already given up. That much has become clear. You've gone all-in on the Republican platform.

[Phatscotty]

I know the long game. I get it, but it's not worth letting Obama serve another year with no red lights left to stop him, IMO

So, for purposes of discussion, if Obama is re-elected, what specific actions will you take in the one or two years following election day?

Or were you serious about campaigning for Ron Paul, who would be 90 when he finished his terms?

I don't know of any specific actions I would take...not sure I would play my hand facing out on a gaming website if I did either...

This is for emergency only!

p.s. I am serious about continuing to work for Ron Paul, whatever age, at least until he goes senile. Will probably work to create a serious tea party presidential candidate as well

[saxitoxin]

I know the long game. I get it, but it's not worth letting Obama serve another year with no red lights left to stop him, IMO

So, for purposes of discussion, if Obama is re-elected, what specific actions will you take in the one or two years following election day?

Or were you serious about campaigning for Ron Paul, who would be 90 when he finished his terms?

I don't know of any specific actions I would take...not sure I would play my hand facing out on a gaming website if I did either...

This is for emergency only!

okay, fair enough

[Phatscotty]

btw, I will work for Ron Paul until his seeds go dry, or until we get a strong Tea Party candidate, or whatever our "movement" happens to be called at the time...

http://www.campaignforliberty.org/

[Woodruff]

btw, I will work for Ron Paul until his seeds go dry, or until we get a strong Tea Party candidate, or whatever our "movement" happens to be called at the time...
http://www.campaignforliberty.org/

Could you please explain why it is that you favor the Tea Party instead of the Libertarian Party? I guess you've just got the Republican social agenda at heart?

[Phatscotty]

btw, I will work for Ron Paul until his seeds go dry, or until we get a strong Tea Party candidate, or whatever our "movement" happens to be called at the time...
http://www.campaignforliberty.org/

Could you please explain why it is that you favor the Tea Party instead of the Libertarian Party? I guess you've just got the Republican social agenda at heart?

much more realistic to transform the Republican party. Whatever they may say, it's virtually impossible to deny the battles in the Republican primaries, where the swingin dicks of yesterday can no longer even qualify to run for re-election. We made Arlen Specter switch to the Democrat Party. We have called up Ted Cruz. We have sent Marco Rubio, Jason Chaffitz, Allen West, and Rand Paul.

Again, we smash Republicans the way Liberals only wish they could. Have fun getting your guy 3% and 4 more 4 Obama with a "firm mandate" who we already know does not respect Congress or our founding core principle of checks and balances....

[Woodruff]

btw, I will work for Ron Paul until his seeds go dry, or until we get a strong Tea Party candidate, or whatever our "movement" happens to be called at the time...
http://www.campaignforliberty.org/

Could you please explain why it is that you favor the Tea Party instead of the Libertarian Party? I guess you've just got the Republican social agenda at heart?

much more realistic to transform the Republican party.

So you believe the Tea Party can transform the Republican Party, but you do not believe the Libertarian Party can transform the Republican Party? What exactly leads you to believe in this strange power the Tea Party possesses which the Libertarian Party does not?

Whatever they may say, it's virtually impossible to deny the battles in the Republican primaries, where the swingin dicks of yesterday can no longer even qualify to run for re-election. We made Arlen Specter switch to the Democrat Party. We have called up Ted Cruz. We have sent Marco Rubio, Jason Chaffitz, Allen West, and Rand Paul.

You got laughed out of the Republican National Convention. Transformed, indeed.

[saxitoxin]

Have fun getting your guy 3% and 4 more 4 Obama

Woodruff can win with as little as 1%. He wins if the next officeholder is denied 50% of the vote, a mandate and democratic legitimacy to govern.

There's a reason opposition parties in dictatorships consistently boycott elections. Most people don't understand how fundamentally weak every state is and how easily it can be derailed. Harvard Business School identified five centers of positional power: formal authority, relevance, centrality, autonomy and visibility. If the sovereign loses four of his power centers, a transformative emergency ensues. The goal, therefore, is to provoke an emergency. Loss of mandate is only one, but an important, step in doing that.

If the denial of mandate happens to Romney, and things spiral out of control on other fronts - as they most certainly will by spring of 2013 - conservatism as a force in the U.S. will be done forever. I understand why conservatives are helping tie themselves to the railroad track; they mostly don't understand the transition that's about to crystalize. If I were a Republican, though, I'd be on my knees praying every night that Obama wins and does so with an electoral minority.

[Phatscotty]

any more information about what we would look like in 2016 after 8 years of Obama? Would it even be able to matter if a real Conservative won in 2016? as if he/she could turn around the damage in 4 years?

I don't see how a Conservative could allow Obama to stay. I know Romney isn't perfect, but Obama must be stopped also.

Yeah it sucks, but like I have been saying, it's either Romney or Obama. Obama for sure sucks more than Romney.

[saxitoxin]

Yeah it sucks, but like I have been saying, it's either Romney or Obama.

no, there are 4 possible outcomes

Romney-Order
Situation: Romney wins with a majority of popular and electoral vote.
Winner: Republican Party

Obama-Order
Situation: Obama wins with a majority of popular and electoral vote.
Winner: Democrat Party

Romney-Chaos
Situation: Romney wins with a minority of popular or electoral vote.
Winner: TBD, but now a radical left faction is in position to compete against the Democrats and Republicans for power centers

Obama-Chaos
Situation: Obama wins with a minority of popular or electoral vote.
Winner: TBD, but now a radical right faction is in position to compete against the Democrats and Republicans for power centers

anyone interested in change should be voting for the type of Chaos in which their positions would have the best chance of thriving; after 2000 you had Bush-Chaos and it was only with the fortunate occurrence of 9/11 that the system was able to realign itself - it would be remarkable that a similar opportunity would present itself for an institutionally weakened administration

[BigBallinStalin]

Have fun getting your guy 3% and 4 more 4 Obama

Woodruff can win with as little as 1%. He wins if the next officeholder is denied 50% of the vote, a mandate and democratic legitimacy to govern.

There's a reason opposition parties in dictatorships consistently boycott elections. Most people don't understand how fundamentally weak every state is and how easily it can be derailed. Harvard Business School identified five centers of positional power: formal authority, relevance, centrality, autonomy and visibility. If the sovereign loses four of his power centers, a transformative emergency ensues. The goal, therefore, is to provoke an emergency. Loss of mandate is only one, but an important, step in doing that.

If the denial of mandate happens to Romney, and things spiral out of control on other fronts - as they most certainly will by spring of 2013 - conservatism as a force in the U.S. will be done forever. I understand why conservatives are helping tie themselves to the railroad track; they mostly don't understand the transition that's about to crystalize. If I were a Republican, though, I'd be on my knees praying every night that Obama wins and does so with an electoral minority.

RE: The American Party Systems: Stages of Political Development


James Rabun doesn't think too highly of it--especially on the latter three time periods.

[Phatscotty]

btw, I will work for Ron Paul until his seeds go dry, or until we get a strong Tea Party candidate, or whatever our "movement" happens to be called at the time...
http://www.campaignforliberty.org/

Could you please explain why it is that you favor the Tea Party instead of the Libertarian Party? I guess you've just got the Republican social agenda at heart?

much more realistic to transform the Republican party.

So you believe the Tea Party can transform the Republican Party, but you do not believe the Libertarian Party can transform the Republican Party? What exactly leads you to believe in this strange power the Tea Party possesses which the Libertarian Party does not?

Whatever they may say, it's virtually impossible to deny the battles in the Republican primaries, where the swingin dicks of yesterday can no longer even qualify to run for re-election. We made Arlen Specter switch to the Democrat Party. We have called up Ted Cruz. We have sent Marco Rubio, Jason Chaffitz, Allen West, and Rand Paul.

You got laughed out of the Republican National Convention. Transformed, indeed.

Wow, 1 event for one office (presidential nomination) and all federal and state election results are erased huh?

Romney is the antithesis of a Tea Party Republican. People who can't stand the Tea Party, and can't Stand Obama....Romney's your guy

[GreecePwns]

And Romney does respect those principles. He told me he loves America, how can you question him?

Oh yeah, and who cares if my branch of the one party made it virtually impossible for anyone outside the establishment to even have their supporters show up at the convention, let alone vote for them. I'm going to keep coming back to my abusive boyfriend of a party, occasionally mustering the strength to utter a "please stop" before taking another slap in the face. Of course, the boyfriend will forever claim that he enjoys her presence, sending her into a fit of joy while her close friend Gary stands outside the house begging her to go to him. Boyfriend forbids her from acknowledging his existence though: "'member what happen' a Rawn? I'ma keel 'em too!" She knows the boyfriend is secretly seeing that girl in blue at least 90 percent of the time, and she can't get Gary out of her mind especially when her friends Reason and Cato beg her to go to him, but she stays, hoping one say Red will change his ways.

Does that sound like a sad state of affairs? Well that's what they every libertarian voting Republican after 2012 is like.

[AndyDufresne]

He told me he loves America, how can you question him?

He did have a bigger flag pin for all 3 debates. It is pretty clear.


--Andy

[Woodruff]

any more information about what we would look like in 2016 after 8 years of Obama? Would it even be able to matter if a real Conservative won in 2016? as if he/she could turn around the damage in 4 years?

I don't see how a Conservative could allow Obama to stay. I know Romney isn't perfect, but Obama must be stopped also.

Yeah it sucks, but like I have been saying, it's either Romney or Obama. Obama for sure sucks more than Romney.

You say that a lot, but you haven't yet justified that statement rationally. Romney is Obama.

[Woodruff]

btw, I will work for Ron Paul until his seeds go dry, or until we get a strong Tea Party candidate, or whatever our "movement" happens to be called at the time...
http://www.campaignforliberty.org/

Could you please explain why it is that you favor the Tea Party instead of the Libertarian Party? I guess you've just got the Republican social agenda at heart?

much more realistic to transform the Republican party.

So you believe the Tea Party can transform the Republican Party, but you do not believe the Libertarian Party can transform the Republican Party? What exactly leads you to believe in this strange power the Tea Party possesses which the Libertarian Party does not?

Whatever they may say, it's virtually impossible to deny the battles in the Republican primaries, where the swingin dicks of yesterday can no longer even qualify to run for re-election. We made Arlen Specter switch to the Democrat Party. We have called up Ted Cruz. We have sent Marco Rubio, Jason Chaffitz, Allen West, and Rand Paul.

You got laughed out of the Republican National Convention. Transformed, indeed.

Wow, 1 event for one office (presidential nomination) and all federal and state election results are erased huh?

I know you want to try to wish it away, but you WERE LAUGHED OUT OF THE REPUBLICAN NATIONAL CONVENTION. That is the sum total of the LACK seriousness which the Tea Party poses to the entrenched Republican leadership.

Romney is the antithesis of a Tea Party Republican. People who can't stand the Tea Party, and can't Stand Obama....Romney's your guy[/b]

Yet, Romney was your great hope for the Tea Party transformation. Why are you so inconsistent?

[Woodruff]

And Romney does respect those principles. He told me he loves America, how can you question him?

Oh yeah, and who cares if my branch of the one party made it virtually impossible for anyone outside the establishment to even have their supporters show up at the convention, let alone vote for them. I'm going to keep coming back to my abusive boyfriend of a party, occasionally mustering the strength to utter a "please stop" before taking another slap in the face. Of course, the boyfriend will forever claim that he enjoys her presence, sending her into a fit of joy while her close friend Gary stands outside the house begging her to go to him. Boyfriend forbids her from acknowledging his existence though: "'member what happen' a Rawn? I'ma keel 'em too!" She knows the boyfriend is secretly seeing that girl in blue at least 90 percent of the time, and she can't get Gary out of her mind especially when her friends Reason and Cato beg her to go to him, but she stays, hoping one say Red will change his ways.

Does that sound like a sad state of affairs? Well that's what they every libertarian voting Republican after 2012 is like.

Seriously, that's a very good analogy.

[tzor]

So you believe the Tea Party can transform the Republican Party, but you do not believe the Libertarian Party can transform the Republican Party? What exactly leads you to believe in this strange power the Tea Party possesses which the Libertarian Party does not?

if you want the simple answer ... they fail because they do not try. I don't see libertarian offshoots trying to influence local or state politics. Rather I see libertarians in those tea party offshoots (and a lot of them in 912 movements which tended to be considered for all pratical purposes tea party movements) influencing local and state politics. It's important to remember that the "Tea Party" isn't a political party per se. The Libertarian Party is.

It's hard enough for the "Conservative" party in New York to influence the Republican party in New York.

[saxitoxin]

And Romney does respect those principles. He told me he loves America, how can you question him?

Oh yeah, and who cares if my branch of the one party made it virtually impossible for anyone outside the establishment to even have their supporters show up at the convention, let alone vote for them. I'm going to keep coming back to my abusive boyfriend of a party, occasionally mustering the strength to utter a "please stop" before taking another slap in the face. Of course, the boyfriend will forever claim that he enjoys her presence, sending her into a fit of joy while her close friend Gary stands outside the house begging her to go to him. Boyfriend forbids her from acknowledging his existence though: "'member what happen' a Rawn? I'ma keel 'em too!" She knows the boyfriend is secretly seeing that girl in blue at least 90 percent of the time, and she can't get Gary out of her mind especially when her friends Reason and Cato beg her to go to him, but she stays, hoping one say Red will change his ways.

Does that sound like a sad state of affairs? Well that's what they every libertarian voting Republican after 2012 is like.

+175 SaxBucks

So you believe the Tea Party can transform the Republican Party, but you do not believe the Libertarian Party can transform the Republican Party? What exactly leads you to believe in this strange power the Tea Party possesses which the Libertarian Party does not?

if you want the simple answer ... they fail because they do not try. I don't see libertarian offshoots trying to influence local or state politics. Rather I see libertarians in those tea party offshoots (and a lot of them in 912 movements which tended to be considered for all pratical purposes tea party movements) influencing local and state politics. It's important to remember that the "Tea Party" isn't a political party per se. The Libertarian Party is.

It's hard enough for the "Conservative" party in New York to influence the Republican party in New York.

That's interesting - I had thought the Conservative Party was able (or at least had been?) to influence the NY Republicans from moderating pretty effectively, but it sounds like not?

I think the CP and Working Families Party in NYS are interesting examples of the use of third parties as pressure groups instead of electoral-focused parties. Though, I suppose any past, present or future success depends on being able to have a well-disciplined voting block that has the balls and willingness to occasionally hand defeat to Republicans (or, in the case of Working Families, to Democrats) in order to reinforce their potency as a cudgel. There are probably too many people like Scott and Player (no offense, Scott and Player - this is just observational) to be able to translate the cudgel-role to reality?

[saxitoxin]

- "He's getting better."
- "I know I can change him."
- "He'll stop if I just prove my loyalty to him."
- "I'm only going to give him one more chance."
- "I can't afford to leave right now. Next year, maybe."

[tzor]

That's interesting - I had thought the Conservative Party was able (or at least had been?) to influence the NY Republicans from moderating pretty effectively, but it sounds like not?

Well the conservative party has had a tough time among conservatives these days. It is a far cry from the days of William F. Buckley Jr. when the Republican party in New York was massively liberal.

I think the CP and Working Families Party in NYS are interesting examples of the use of third parties as pressure groups instead of electoral-focused parties.

Well the WFP is an offshoot (pun intended) of ACORN these days.

The real key is that in New York you can appear on multiple lines of a ballot. Thus you can do more than just vote for a candidate, you can vote for a cadidate using your specific party flavor.

That's been the true advantage of parties like the Conservative Party, unless they start doing backroom deals and ignore the basic views of their party members.