Romney was Better than Obama

[BigBallinStalin]

So you believe the Tea Party can transform the Republican Party, but you do not believe the Libertarian Party can transform the Republican Party? What exactly leads you to believe in this strange power the Tea Party possesses which the Libertarian Party does not?

if you want the simple answer ... they fail because they do not try. I don't see libertarian offshoots trying to influence local or state politics. Rather I see libertarians in those tea party offshoots (and a lot of them in 912 movements which tended to be considered for all pratical purposes tea party movements) influencing local and state politics. It's important to remember that the "Tea Party" isn't a political party per se. The Libertarian Party is.

It's hard enough for the "Conservative" party in New York to influence the Republican party in New York.

That's interesting - I had thought the Conservative Party was able (or at least had been?) to influence the NY Republicans from moderating pretty effectively, but it sounds like not?

I think the CP and Working Families Party in NYS are interesting examples of the use of third parties as pressure groups instead of electoral-focused parties. Though, I suppose any past, present or future success depends on being able to have a well-disciplined voting block that has the balls and willingness to occasionally hand defeat to Republicans (or, in the case of Working Families, to Democrats) in order to reinforce their potency as a cudgel. There are probably too many people like Scott and Player (no offense, Scott and Player - this is just observational) to be able to translate the cudgel-role to reality?[/quote]


How many times can people be fooled until they wise up?

[Woodruff]

That's interesting - I had thought the Conservative Party was able (or at least had been?) to influence the NY Republicans from moderating pretty effectively, but it sounds like not?

Well the conservative party has had a tough time among conservatives these days. It is a far cry from the days of William F. Buckley Jr. when the Republican party in New York was massively liberal.

Yeah, ol' William F. Buckley Jr. was a hell of a liberal. WTF? Seriously man, is it just because the man was able to think for himself that you think he was a liberal? Now that I think about it...

I think the CP and Working Families Party in NYS are interesting examples of the use of third parties as pressure groups instead of electoral-focused parties.

Well the WFP is an offshoot (pun intended) of ACORN these days.

ACORN!!!!!

That's been the true advantage of parties like the Conservative Party, unless they start doing backroom deals and ignore the basic views of their party members.

What do you mean by "unless they start"...do you believe that HASN'T been happening?

[Phatscotty]

Mih Rahny don pay no ta-ehs

Mih Rahny don pay no ta-ehs

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oox24rczatw&t=2m28s

[saxitoxin]

I'm starting to feel like Abigail Evans.

[Woodruff]

The Economist weighs in on the issue:

http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21565623-america-could-do-better-barack-obama-sadly-mitt-romney-does-not-fit-bill-which-one?fsrc=scn/rd_ec/which_one_

[stahrgazer]

the question can be partially answered by the evidence we do have on the other side of the equation, being we know Obama wipes his ass with the Constitution....

Only after Mitt shit on it.

[john9blue]

the question can be partially answered by the evidence we do have on the other side of the equation, being we know Obama wipes his ass with the Constitution....

Only after Mitt shit on it.

2 candidates 1 constitution

[Phatscotty]

the question can be partially answered by the evidence we do have on the other side of the equation, being we know Obama wipes his ass with the Constitution....

Only after Mitt shit on it.

After? what do you mean? When did this happen? What specifically are you talking about?

[Phatscotty]

Mitt Romney has worked with Democrats, to get business done.

When did Obama work with Republicans? resulting in failing to pass and sign a standard, basic budget and an immediate downgrade the day after that, of course, to blame on Republicans, not that we don't even have a budget.

The Republicans passed a balanced budget, with Democrat votes, and another back-up budget just in case. Obama's budget did not get a single vote. I think it was 0-97. Not even a Democrat would vote for it, not a single one....

For me, it's as simple as drawing the line when the Executive branch so thoroughly and frequently abuses their power and ignores Congress. Obama does not respect our principle of checks and balances. Obama has to go, and that is how I am using my vote.

[Woodruff]

[thegreekdog]

You're not a fan of 1962?

[Woodruff]

You're not a fan of 1962?

That was the year the first Wal-Mart opened it's doors, the bastards. Now what do you think? <smile>

[oVo]

It's all American's duty to give Obama the booty.

He's married you doofus... and much better than Might Robme.

What has President Obama accomplished in his first term?
Just a few of the Obama administration's accomplishments:

1. The first bill President Obama signed was the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, to help women fight back when they don't get equal pay for equal work.
2. His Recovery Act supported millions of jobs and helped to stave off a second Great Depression.
3. He pushed for and won middle class tax cuts that benefited every American worker, and saved the typical family $3,600 in taxes over the last four years.
4. President Obama rescued the auto industry, and now GM and Chrysler are healthier than they've ever been. The American auto industry has added nearly a quarter of a million jobs since June 2009—and they most likely wouldn't exist right now without President Obama's leadership.
5. He doubled funding for Pell Grants, helping to make college more affordable for nearly 10 million families.
6. His student loan reform ended billions in subsidies to banks serving as middlemen and reinvested those savings directly in students.
7. The President established the American Opportunity Tax Credit, worth up to $10,000 over four years of college.
8. His Race to the Top Initiative helped spur nearly every state to raise academic standards.
9. His tax cuts, social-welfare programs, and economic policies lifted nearly 7 million Americans above the federal poverty line in 2010.
10. President Obama has signed 18 tax cuts for small businesses since taking office.
11. We've seen 5.2 million new private sector jobs over the last 31 months.
12. The unemployment rate is at the lowest level since President Obama took office.
13. Health care reform—passed after decades of failed attempts by every previous president—provides affordable health coverage to every American and will lower premiums by an average of $2,000 per family by 2019.
14. Obamacare expanded access to lifesaving preventive care such as cancer screenings and immunizations with no out-of-pocket costs for 54 million Americans.
15. Obamacare ends insurance discrimination against the 129 million Americans with pre-existing conditions.
16. Because of Obamacare, over 3 million more young adults have health insurance today than would if the new law hadn't passed.
17. The parents of over 17 million children with pre-existing conditions no longer have to worry that their children will be denied coverage.
18. President Obama has ordered the overhaul of federal government regulations to make them smarter, practical, and more efficient. Just a fraction of these common-sense initiatives will help save businesses $10 billion in the next five years alone.
19. His historic investments in clean energy have helped more than double the amount of electricity we obtain from wind and solar sources and helped increase biofuel production to its highest level in history.
20. President Obama is doubling fuel efficiency standards, which will save drivers more than $8,000 at the gas pump, not to mention lessen the impact of automobiles on our environment.
21. President Obama has taken unprecedented action to address climate change, reaching historic international agreements to curb carbon emissions, and taking action here at home to reduce carbon pollution from our vehicles and promote clean energy production.
22. He has taken historic action to protect our environment—signing one of the largest expansions of protected wilderness in a generation and putting in place standards to reduce toxic air pollution that will save thousands of lives.
23. President Obama fought for and won landmark Wall Street reform that reins in the abuses that led to the financial crisis and ends the era of taxpayer bailouts and "too big to fail."
24. Wall Street reform created the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, the nation's first federal agency focused solely on consumer financial protection—and the Bureau is already protecting families from unfair and abusive financial practices from Wall Street banks and shadowy corners of the financial industry.
25. As part of President Obama's commitment to transparency, the White House has posted its visitor records online for the first time ever.
26. President Obama's all-of-the-above approach to energy has helped cut the United States' dependence on foreign oil to its lowest level in 20 years.
27. President Obama responsibly ended the war in Iraq.
28. He announced a plan to end the war in Afghanistan and transition security responsibility to the Afghan people.
29. President Obama sent the largest security assistance package to Israel in history and funded the Iron Dome system, which is protecting Israeli homes and schools from rocket attacks.
30. President Obama rallied the international community to implement the toughest sanctions on Iran in history.
31. Through the President's historic increases in Veterans Affairs funding, he has expanded and improved healthcare and job training access for our returning veterans.
32. President Obama negotiated the New START Treaty with Russia to reduce the number of nuclear weapons in both countries. At the same time, he also secured commitments from dozens of other countries to lock down nuclear materials.
33. His administration naturalized 11,146 military servicemembers as U.S. citizens in 2010; more than in any year since 1955.
34. President Obama set a bold new plan for the future of NASA space exploration, using the skill and ability of the private sector for short trips to the International Space Station, while building a new vehicle for exploration of distant space, and doing everything in his power to support the economy on Florida's Space Coast.
35. President Obama recognizes that tourism is one of America's largest economic engines; he's worked to encourage international visitors to come here, maintaining our security while keeping millions of Americans in good, paying jobs.
36. He has affirmed his personal support of marriage equality, directed the Justice Department to stop defending DOMA in federal courts, and took the practical and compassionate step of extending hospital visitation rights to same-sex partners.
37. He fought for and won the repeal of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell", allowing gay and lesbian members of the military to serve openly for the first time in history.
38. When Congress failed to fix our broken immigration system, his administration did everything in its power to improve it, streamlining the legal immigration process and announcing a policy that lifts the shadow of deportation from hard working young immigrants brought to the U.S. as children.
39. Oh, and he gave the order to send troops in after Osama Bin Laden—and has decimated al Qaeda's senior leadership.

[saxitoxin]

I didn't have time to go through this one-by-one, but a few were particularly funny.

12. The unemployment rate is at the lowest level since President Obama took office.

which isn't saying much

> 25. As part of President Obama's commitment to transparency, the White House has posted its visitor records online for the first time ever.

Now that we can know that Marge Hatfield from Deerborne, MI took a tour of the Blue Sitting Room last Thursday, why won't this guy shut-up? Isn't that enough for this ingrate?

27. President Obama responsibly ended the war in Iraq.

The last column of 8,000 U.S. troops drove at 70 miles per hour for the Kuwait border and reportedly took at least 4 volleys of mortar rounds as they were leaving. In the USA this is "successful disengagement." In the rest of the world this is called "a full-on retreat" and or "fleeing."

>28. He announced a plan to end the war in Afghanistan and transition security responsibility to the Afghan people.

Oh good, "he announced a plan!" His drone victims are all smiles!

29. President Obama sent the largest security assistance package to Israel in history and funded the Iron Dome system, which is protecting Israeli homes and schools from rocket attacks.

"Yeehaw! Now we can ethnic cleanse the A-rabs in peace!"

30. President Obama rallied the international community to implement the toughest sanctions on Iran in history.

if by "international community" you mean The Zionist Enemy

[Symmetry]

It's all American's duty to give Obama the booty.

He's married you doofus... and much better than Might Robme.

What has President Obama accomplished in his first term?
Just a few of the Obama administration's accomplishments:

1. The first bill President Obama signed was the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, to help women fight back when they don't get equal pay for equal work.
2. His Recovery Act supported millions of jobs and helped to stave off a second Great Depression.
3. He pushed for and won middle class tax cuts that benefited every American worker, and saved the typical family $3,600 in taxes over the last four years.
4. President Obama rescued the auto industry, and now GM and Chrysler are healthier than they've ever been. The American auto industry has added nearly a quarter of a million jobs since June 2009—and they most likely wouldn't exist right now without President Obama's leadership.
5. He doubled funding for Pell Grants, helping to make college more affordable for nearly 10 million families.
6. His student loan reform ended billions in subsidies to banks serving as middlemen and reinvested those savings directly in students.
7. The President established the American Opportunity Tax Credit, worth up to $10,000 over four years of college.
8. His Race to the Top Initiative helped spur nearly every state to raise academic standards.
9. His tax cuts, social-welfare programs, and economic policies lifted nearly 7 million Americans above the federal poverty line in 2010.
10. President Obama has signed 18 tax cuts for small businesses since taking office.
11. We've seen 5.2 million new private sector jobs over the last 31 months.
12. The unemployment rate is at the lowest level since President Obama took office.
13. Health care reform—passed after decades of failed attempts by every previous president—provides affordable health coverage to every American and will lower premiums by an average of $2,000 per family by 2019.
14. Obamacare expanded access to lifesaving preventive care such as cancer screenings and immunizations with no out-of-pocket costs for 54 million Americans.
15. Obamacare ends insurance discrimination against the 129 million Americans with pre-existing conditions.
16. Because of Obamacare, over 3 million more young adults have health insurance today than would if the new law hadn't passed.
17. The parents of over 17 million children with pre-existing conditions no longer have to worry that their children will be denied coverage.
18. President Obama has ordered the overhaul of federal government regulations to make them smarter, practical, and more efficient. Just a fraction of these common-sense initiatives will help save businesses $10 billion in the next five years alone.
19. His historic investments in clean energy have helped more than double the amount of electricity we obtain from wind and solar sources and helped increase biofuel production to its highest level in history.
20. President Obama is doubling fuel efficiency standards, which will save drivers more than $8,000 at the gas pump, not to mention lessen the impact of automobiles on our environment.
21. President Obama has taken unprecedented action to address climate change, reaching historic international agreements to curb carbon emissions, and taking action here at home to reduce carbon pollution from our vehicles and promote clean energy production.
22. He has taken historic action to protect our environment—signing one of the largest expansions of protected wilderness in a generation and putting in place standards to reduce toxic air pollution that will save thousands of lives.
23. President Obama fought for and won landmark Wall Street reform that reins in the abuses that led to the financial crisis and ends the era of taxpayer bailouts and "too big to fail."
24. Wall Street reform created the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, the nation's first federal agency focused solely on consumer financial protection—and the Bureau is already protecting families from unfair and abusive financial practices from Wall Street banks and shadowy corners of the financial industry.
25. As part of President Obama's commitment to transparency, the White House has posted its visitor records online for the first time ever.
26. President Obama's all-of-the-above approach to energy has helped cut the United States' dependence on foreign oil to its lowest level in 20 years.
27. President Obama responsibly ended the war in Iraq.
28. He announced a plan to end the war in Afghanistan and transition security responsibility to the Afghan people.
29. President Obama sent the largest security assistance package to Israel in history and funded the Iron Dome system, which is protecting Israeli homes and schools from rocket attacks.
30. President Obama rallied the international community to implement the toughest sanctions on Iran in history.
31. Through the President's historic increases in Veterans Affairs funding, he has expanded and improved healthcare and job training access for our returning veterans.
32. President Obama negotiated the New START Treaty with Russia to reduce the number of nuclear weapons in both countries. At the same time, he also secured commitments from dozens of other countries to lock down nuclear materials.
33. His administration naturalized 11,146 military servicemembers as U.S. citizens in 2010; more than in any year since 1955.
34. President Obama set a bold new plan for the future of NASA space exploration, using the skill and ability of the private sector for short trips to the International Space Station, while building a new vehicle for exploration of distant space, and doing everything in his power to support the economy on Florida's Space Coast.
35. President Obama recognizes that tourism is one of America's largest economic engines; he's worked to encourage international visitors to come here, maintaining our security while keeping millions of Americans in good, paying jobs.
36. He has affirmed his personal support of marriage equality, directed the Justice Department to stop defending DOMA in federal courts, and took the practical and compassionate step of extending hospital visitation rights to same-sex partners.
37. He fought for and won the repeal of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell", allowing gay and lesbian members of the military to serve openly for the first time in history.
38. When Congress failed to fix our broken immigration system, his administration did everything in its power to improve it, streamlining the legal immigration process and announcing a policy that lifts the shadow of deportation from hard working young immigrants brought to the U.S. as children.
39. Oh, and he gave the order to send troops in after Osama Bin Laden—and has decimated al Qaeda's senior leadership.

Heh- as if Scotty will reply.

[thegreekdog]

It's all American's duty to give Obama the booty.

He's married you doofus... and much better than Might Robme.

What has President Obama accomplished in his first term?
Just a few of the Obama administration's accomplishments:

1. The first bill President Obama signed was the Lilly Ledbetter Fair Pay Act, to help women fight back when they don't get equal pay for equal work.
2. His Recovery Act supported millions of jobs and helped to stave off a second Great Depression.
3. He pushed for and won middle class tax cuts that benefited every American worker, and saved the typical family $3,600 in taxes over the last four years.
4. President Obama rescued the auto industry, and now GM and Chrysler are healthier than they've ever been. The American auto industry has added nearly a quarter of a million jobs since June 2009—and they most likely wouldn't exist right now without President Obama's leadership.
5. He doubled funding for Pell Grants, helping to make college more affordable for nearly 10 million families.
6. His student loan reform ended billions in subsidies to banks serving as middlemen and reinvested those savings directly in students.
7. The President established the American Opportunity Tax Credit, worth up to $10,000 over four years of college.
8. His Race to the Top Initiative helped spur nearly every state to raise academic standards.
9. His tax cuts, social-welfare programs, and economic policies lifted nearly 7 million Americans above the federal poverty line in 2010.
10. President Obama has signed 18 tax cuts for small businesses since taking office.
11. We've seen 5.2 million new private sector jobs over the last 31 months.
12. The unemployment rate is at the lowest level since President Obama took office.
13. Health care reform—passed after decades of failed attempts by every previous president—provides affordable health coverage to every American and will lower premiums by an average of $2,000 per family by 2019.
14. Obamacare expanded access to lifesaving preventive care such as cancer screenings and immunizations with no out-of-pocket costs for 54 million Americans.
15. Obamacare ends insurance discrimination against the 129 million Americans with pre-existing conditions.
16. Because of Obamacare, over 3 million more young adults have health insurance today than would if the new law hadn't passed.
17. The parents of over 17 million children with pre-existing conditions no longer have to worry that their children will be denied coverage.
18. President Obama has ordered the overhaul of federal government regulations to make them smarter, practical, and more efficient. Just a fraction of these common-sense initiatives will help save businesses $10 billion in the next five years alone.
19. His historic investments in clean energy have helped more than double the amount of electricity we obtain from wind and solar sources and helped increase biofuel production to its highest level in history.
20. President Obama is doubling fuel efficiency standards, which will save drivers more than $8,000 at the gas pump, not to mention lessen the impact of automobiles on our environment.
21. President Obama has taken unprecedented action to address climate change, reaching historic international agreements to curb carbon emissions, and taking action here at home to reduce carbon pollution from our vehicles and promote clean energy production.
22. He has taken historic action to protect our environment—signing one of the largest expansions of protected wilderness in a generation and putting in place standards to reduce toxic air pollution that will save thousands of lives.
23. President Obama fought for and won landmark Wall Street reform that reins in the abuses that led to the financial crisis and ends the era of taxpayer bailouts and "too big to fail."
24. Wall Street reform created the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, the nation's first federal agency focused solely on consumer financial protection—and the Bureau is already protecting families from unfair and abusive financial practices from Wall Street banks and shadowy corners of the financial industry.
25. As part of President Obama's commitment to transparency, the White House has posted its visitor records online for the first time ever.
26. President Obama's all-of-the-above approach to energy has helped cut the United States' dependence on foreign oil to its lowest level in 20 years.
27. President Obama responsibly ended the war in Iraq.
28. He announced a plan to end the war in Afghanistan and transition security responsibility to the Afghan people.
29. President Obama sent the largest security assistance package to Israel in history and funded the Iron Dome system, which is protecting Israeli homes and schools from rocket attacks.
30. President Obama rallied the international community to implement the toughest sanctions on Iran in history.
31. Through the President's historic increases in Veterans Affairs funding, he has expanded and improved healthcare and job training access for our returning veterans.
32. President Obama negotiated the New START Treaty with Russia to reduce the number of nuclear weapons in both countries. At the same time, he also secured commitments from dozens of other countries to lock down nuclear materials.
33. His administration naturalized 11,146 military servicemembers as U.S. citizens in 2010; more than in any year since 1955.
34. President Obama set a bold new plan for the future of NASA space exploration, using the skill and ability of the private sector for short trips to the International Space Station, while building a new vehicle for exploration of distant space, and doing everything in his power to support the economy on Florida's Space Coast.
35. President Obama recognizes that tourism is one of America's largest economic engines; he's worked to encourage international visitors to come here, maintaining our security while keeping millions of Americans in good, paying jobs.
36. He has affirmed his personal support of marriage equality, directed the Justice Department to stop defending DOMA in federal courts, and took the practical and compassionate step of extending hospital visitation rights to same-sex partners.
37. He fought for and won the repeal of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell", allowing gay and lesbian members of the military to serve openly for the first time in history.
38. When Congress failed to fix our broken immigration system, his administration did everything in its power to improve it, streamlining the legal immigration process and announcing a policy that lifts the shadow of deportation from hard working young immigrants brought to the U.S. as children.
39. Oh, and he gave the order to send troops in after Osama Bin Laden—and has decimated al Qaeda's senior leadership.

Heh- as if Scotty will reply.

To be fair to PS, I laughed at this list.

[john9blue]

on the one hand, i want to see obama get re-elected because any desperate attempts to blame economic failures on bush 3 years from now will be even more laughable

on the other hand, i want to see romney win because i want to see how a successful CEO would run america

i hope i'm not the only one who views elections and politics as huge social experiments...

@oVo: that list looks like something that juan would post

[thegreekdog]

on the one hand, i want to see obama get re-elected because any desperate attempts to blame economic failures on bush 3 years from now will be even more laughable

on the other hand, i want to see romney win because i want to see how a successful CEO would run america

i hope i'm not the only one who views elections and politics as huge social experiments...

@oVo: that list looks like something that juan would post

To be fair (again), successful CEOs already run America (no matter who is president).

[Phatscotty]

[Woodruff]

on the other hand, i want to see romney win because i want to see how a successful CEO would run america

Methods are important. Do you really want to see his methods enacted on the nation?[/quote]

[john9blue]

on the other hand, i want to see romney win because i want to see how a successful CEO would run america

Methods are important. Do you really want to see his methods enacted on the nation?

yes. they could go horribly wrong. but i like trying new things, and if romney gets elected it will be the republican party's chance to prove everything they've been saying the last 4 years, or fail trying.

[codeblue1018]

Who are you voting for Scotty?

The person who bests represents my views AND has a realistic chance to win.

Because being on the winning team is more important than doing what is best for the nation.

So Woody, is Obama/Biden better for this country?

[jay_a2j]

In response to thread title: "Well duh?"

[tzor]

To be fair to PS, I laughed at this list.

I'm not laughing. The half lies, false assumptions and ignored unintended consequences are so gross that one could actually write whole articles for each bullet point disputing it, assuming one had the time, which I generally, do not. And even then it's crap.

But people think like that. They think if they can't stand on the facts they can dazzle you with bullshit.

[thegreekdog]

To be fair to PS, I laughed at this list.

I'm not laughing. The half lies, false assumptions and ignored unintended consequences are so gross that one could actually write whole articles for each bullet point disputing it, assuming one had the time, which I generally, do not. And even then it's crap.

But people think like that. They think if they can't stand on the facts they can dazzle you with bullshit.

I tend to laugh at bullshit.