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List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Syria

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Do You Support Military Action in Syria?

 
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby Juan_Bottom on Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:35 am

warmonger1981 wrote:Operation Northwood never happened does not mean that it could not happen under different circumstances. Operation Ajax and Operation Condor were ultimately for what or whose interests?? Humanitarianism?? Where was the humanitarian aid for those who died for unjust causes? All Im saying is , in my opinion , not about humanitarianism but for behind the scenes contracts.


And all I'm saying is, that you're basing your opinion on...... (?)
Declassified and totally unrelated documents?


Who cares about Northwoods or Condor? Do you think some Syrian mother is going to be understanding that you didn't want to end the war because Northwoods made you afraid to?
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby saxitoxin on Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:35 am

I agree with Juan on one thing - let's try to keep the Alex Jones FEMA camp stuff out of this thread. The U.S. is about to finalize the extermination of the entire Alawite people. We don't need the greatest hits of AM infotainment radio.

The idea that we should allow more civilians to die, and be displaced


We shouldn't. The US should enforce the UN arms embargo and the FSA would fold tomorrow. There would be no more atrocities like 23 small children having their heads painfully detached from their little bodies by FSA suicide bombers in Aleppo (something the "corporate media who are trying to prevent our noble crusade" [sic Juan] barely covered - 99% of the FSA atrocities have gone unmentioned by the war-hungry corporate media who want to pave the path to the butchery your eyes are bloodshot to see, Juan) or FSA commanders carving the hearts out of prisoners and eating them.

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That picture is actually on my feed.


Oh great, you put something on Facebook. You're a fucking hero. On behalf of the 55,000 Palestinians living in Syria under the protection of the Socialist Ba'ath Party - and who are about to be expelled once the government collapses - I thank you for putting something up on Facebook.
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby saxitoxin on Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:44 am

You're just anti-American.


I'm sad for you. You seem like you're a frightened, pitiful creature. But then I read lines like this and I can't help but just laugh. I apologize for that.

With that I think I'm done with this thread. It's become too utterly nauseating with Col. Foghorn Leghorn strutting about in here.
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby Juan_Bottom on Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:53 am

saxitoxin wrote:Oh great, you put something on Facebook. You're a fucking hero.


Oh great, you copied it to Conquerclub, you're the greatest!
/duh


saxitoxin wrote:. There would be no more atrocities like 23 small children having their heads painfully detached from their little bodies by FSA suicide bombers in Aleppo or FSA commanders carving the hearts out of prisoners and eating them.

You can't source this. I mean, goddamn it you're just using google to make arguments on the fly at this point.

The FSA didn't take responsibility for it. This is the kind of stuff that the conspiracy sites like Alex Jones are reporting.
Yeah, people did get decapitated. Was it by rouge FSA fighters or by another rebel group? Dunno. Was it even in Syria? Dunno.
The heart thing is probably just a story to strike fear in the minds of the stupid. There was a video of a rebel putting a kidney or something in his mouth and acting scary, but he didn't eat it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Syrian_Army
Make a note that FSA war crimes, which were mainly kidnapping their enemies and summary execution of enemy soldiers happened prior to the restructuring of the FSA. Essentially, the FSA was just a giant group of loosely organized militias under different command structures. Later they elected officers and adopted a singular command structure. However, some groups are still only loosely associated with the FSA.
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby BigBallinStalin on Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:56 am

Juan_Bottom wrote:
BigBallinStalin wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:Do you want a Democratic, pro-American government or a second Taliban?


Haha, you know, all that moral rhetoric of yours has led us into inadvertently creating Al-Qaeda, reinforcing the 'first'* Taliban, and setting innocent Americans and Europeans into the target sights of terrorists. Your moral rhetoric of Zero accountability has created a vast environment of hate for the injustices from US interventions--ranging from imposing and subsidizing dictatorships to funding and arming extremist rebel groups, who have no desire for spreading "democratic, pro-American governance."

*
    There already is a 'second', in Pakistan--distinct from the Afghani Taliban, and guess who's causing them to take up arms? The US.


Admitting to the costs of past and current pattern of US intervention is difficult, but it must be done. Otherwise, the US will continue to needlessly aggravate foreign populations of which we hardly understand and will endlessly lose not only American citizens and soldiers but also those citizens and soldiers of our Allies.

If you wish to be a reckless, to be uncaring about more lives ruined or destroyed, then don't support foreign intervention.



This is recklessly stupid of you, BBS, not me. You haven't spoken about any specific facet of Syria or the fight there. You just don't know what you're talking about and espousing generalized opinions about the middle east and war. I'm sure that you're sincere, but the problem is that you still don't know anything about Syria.
Again remember everyone:
Without foriegn intervention, there would be no United States of America. At all. French ships won the Revolutionary War for us. Our history begins with foriegn intervention. Isolationism only helps the oppressor. That means that there is an inherit moral predicament that comes with standing by and watching people be slaughtered.

Anyhoo- If you want to admit the costs and pattern of US military intervention then let's f-ing do it.

    WWI - USA loved like all hell in all Westernized nations but those defeated in Central Europe. And actually, they're not really begrudging.

    WWII - USA WORLD HEROES LOVED EVERYWHERE, we demolished our tanks and planes and really liberated people, when we could have occupied them forever and ruled the world. We rebuilt our enemies economies.

    KOREA- US LOVED LIKE ALL F*CKING HELL in South Korea to this day.

    VIETNAM - total disaster, Isolationist attitudes prevail in the USA

    First Gulf War - US follows UN rules for liberation of Iraq, LOVED LIKE ALL HELL IN KUWAIT, Middle East

    AFGHANISTAN - Total disaster, war run by corporations and incompetent civilian leaders

    IRAQ - Virtual disaster, incompetently run by corporations and terrible civilian leadership. Iraqi's say Iraq is still a better place to live today.*


Read Coyne's After War. Teach yourself to understand the political process.

(lol about blaming it on corporations. The poor government had nothing to do with it! Please, no scapegoats).

Also, most of your claims in capitals are false. Ever traveled outside of this country? Ever talked to ex-pats about those places? Please. You're confusing the rhetoric of various politicians with the actual words of those citizens. Stop doing that.


Juan_Bottom wrote:Not every fight is the same. And you isolationists need to accept that. The worst wars that we ever fought in were the ones under the Bush Administration, because they were run by total idiots and corporations. The Afgahni people didn't ask us to come. The Iraqi people didn't ask us to come. But the Syrian people are begging for relief. Your other words are just ignorant and senseless. The rebels are fighting a dictator; the Rebels are fighting for a Democracy. The US has been helping the FSA specifically because they have a chance to win, and because they are non-sectarian, and non-religious. They are made of Christians and Muslims. They are physically fighting with al-Nustra, Hezbollah, and other terrorist organizations. They want a Democracy. They want freedom.

Syria has traditionally been a country where people from all different sects and religions have lived peacefully together. There is absolutely 0 reason to suspect that the FSA would bring about Sharia Law, a military dictatorship, or anything negative at all. Syria is closer to Bosnia or Turkey than Iraq.


That's not my assumption, so whatever you've hinged upon that strawman falls apart.

You don't care about outcomes--except for the old tired imagined one of Freedom, Democracy, and the End to Conflict (which hardly happens in reality, and the relative 'success' is lackluster). Your moral rhetoric obviates that need to understand, which is dangerous, and you neglect to mention alternatives. You only harp about intervention (militarily too) because you prevent yourself from viewing alternatives. If you read more, then you'd get a wider perspective.

Good luck.



More importantly, why ignore the following:

Haha, you know, all that moral rhetoric of yours has led us into inadvertently creating Al-Qaeda, reinforcing the 'first'* Taliban, and setting innocent Americans and Europeans into the target sights of terrorists. Your moral rhetoric of Zero accountability has created a vast environment of hate for the injustices from US interventions--ranging from imposing and subsidizing dictatorships to funding and arming extremist rebel groups, who have no desire for spreading "democratic, pro-American governance."

If you don't see the pattern of US military intervention, then it's obvious how your hypotheses frame your conclusions. You need to update, son.
Last edited by BigBallinStalin on Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby BigBallinStalin on Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:58 am

saxitoxin wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:The Libyan people are Pro-USA


I stopped reading right here as you're clearly delusional.

That was my fault though - this should have clued me in ...

Juan_Bottom wrote:KOREA- US LOVED LIKE ALL F*CKING HELL in South Korea to this day.


In a survey of South Korean military cadets, ROK Koreans identified the U.S. as the nation's #1 enemy. North Korea came in second.
http://jia.sipa.columbia.edu/north-kore ... -advantage


No, no, sax, he's a self-proclaimed journalist, so he speaks the truth. By upholding the Ethics of Modern Journalism he at least found three sources for each of his claims. I think they all came from his facebook status updates though.
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby TA1LGUNN3R on Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:03 am

Juan wrote:This guy is brilliant. Quality, mate.

He's right on the money here. The US isn't invading Syria with the intention of stealing oil wells, national artifacts, or currency like they did in Iraq. We're helping people and setting up strong friendships for the future. Pacifism will only help the oppressor.


Haha. Right. Just like we were bringing democracy and womens' rights to Iraq.

/chuckle

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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby BigBallinStalin on Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:11 am

Juan_Bottom wrote:
warmonger1981 wrote:It seems you make it a black and white answers. People die so the US must intervene on a humanitarian mission. Thats not how America works. America goes in for money and financial/economic control. Human lives dont mean shit to the US. We only support those that do what we want. Operation Northwoods mean anything? Our government would kill their own if it furthered a specific agenda.Corporations dont care about us. Remember trans national corporations run most media so be careful. What you think is truth is nothing more than someone elses version perceived through their corrective lenses of logic and understanding.


Operation Northwoods never happened; it was an idea. People have bad ideas, but it doesn't mean that the CIA only has bad ideas. The fact that it was willingly declassified is a credit.


I first read about Operations Northwoods from James Bamford's Body of Secrets in the early 2000s. He writes about the NSA and their history. His general method for obtaining information is through the information for freedom act, but it takes months--sometimes years--to have them declassify material--even if it's on youtube or the internet. Many times they don't declassify for vague, arbitrary, and/or unverifiable reasons ("national derpscurity"). The NSA among other agencies pull all the stops on increasing the price (read: transaction cost) of obtaining information. Many good, concerned citizens who are interested in making their government more transparent do not face this imaginary, well-intentioned bureaucracy seeking to readily release information--as the underlined definitely implies.

So, you now have very good reasons to doubt what you think.
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby Qwert on Wed Aug 28, 2013 6:21 am

Juan_Bottom wrote:Why do you guys even think that?

Iran literally cannot in any way oppose Saudi Arabia, the leader of OPEC. If they do, Saudi Arabia will cancel all sales of Iranian Oil across the globe. All Iran can do is give guns to Hezbollah and Assad. Saudi Arabia is aiding the FSA.

Russia doesn't even border Syria, and they so they can't do anything but offer free guns to Assad either.



Somebody makes money in every war. There are a lot of opportunistic douchebags out there.

funny, US also dont board Syria
Boston(US)-Damaskus 8796 km
Sochi(Russia)-Damaskus 1160 km
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby saxitoxin on Wed Aug 28, 2013 10:39 am

Juan_Bottom wrote:You can't source this.


I can't "source" the very heavily covered Aleppo suicide bombings? Jesus Juan, I know you just learned Syria exists last month but you sound as intelligent as someone demanding I "source" the moon landing.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-16978803

I'm sure you have some conspiracy theory about why the BBC (or the thousand other media outlets who covered the Aleppo bombings 18 mos ago) can't be trusted.

Between this and your conspiracy theories "major corporations secretly don't want war, that's why we need to support John McCain and his war march" you just sound like any other run of the mill GED recipient Chickenhawk who wants other people to do the fighting he's too afraid to do ... but will eagerly provide moral support from the rear by making posts on Facebook.

The heart thing is probably just a story to strike fear in the minds of the stupid. There was a video of a rebel putting a kidney or something in his mouth and acting scary, but he didn't eat it.


LOL ... http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-23190533

Every post of yours gets funnier by the word. You're so desperate you're now just making shit up on the fly to fill in your gaps of knowledge. Juan, are you able to locate Syria on a map? Hell, are you able to locate the U.S. on a map?

Essentially, the FSA


Please don't try to impart your vast Wiki knowledge of Syria. As funny as it is, it's also hopelessly sad.

Don't post in this thread again unless it's to show a scan of the DD4 you just signed at your nearest recruiting station.
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby patches70 on Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:23 am

Obama is using all the same rhetoric as Bush jr, bringing democracy, WMDs, saving innocent people, etc etc, and Bush caught hell for it all. Obama does the same thing, and the few Obamaphiles left pat him on the back. Sickening.

Biden had brought up impeaching Bush for going to war with Iraq without a Congressional declaration of war. Obama has already launched war actions against a defenseless nation without even bothering to consult Congress at all, something even Bush jr didn't have the balls to do.

And here goes Obama yet again, doing it all over again. Libya was a success? Ha! Al Qaeda flags rising in the Libyan capital after it's "liberation", a dead ambassador and a country still in chaos and filled with violence, a success. If that's a success I'd sure as hell hate to see what a failure looks like.

Russia won't do anything? China won't do anything? If we attack Syria after they have expressly told us not to? Ha! They won't fight us, but they don't have to. They have plenty of weapons available that don't involve shooting and will have just a terrible impact as bombers dropping bombs.

What if Russia just cuts off the energy to Europe? Think Russia can't afford that? Think again. Russia hasn't been wasting her money. She runs surpluses. She can outlast Europe economically if the revenues for all the oil and gas Russia provides to a Europe that has no other ways of getting their own energy needs.

What if China just dumps US paper in mass? China has been dumping US paper, gradually. But they might get pissed off enough to just go whole hog. And if you think China relies too much on sending their cheap made products to the US, bear in mind that exports only account for about 6% of China's GDP. That's it. China also has control of over 90% of the World's rare earth elements. The stuff we need to get imported to run everything from computers to TVs and Ipads.

Obama is an idiot. He has to do something to Assad because Obama was stupid enough to make a "line in the sand" and now if he doesn't do something he looks like an ass. The upcoming Syrian strikes aren't about helping the Syrian people, or removing Assad (as has been specifically stated that the administration isn't looking for "regime change"). It's a political move that Obama is willing to risk the lives or our troops to simply save face. And kill some Syrians along the way. A steep price to pay to just not look like a fool.

And saxi has a good point about Israel and the Palestinians. We attack Syria, Iran attacks Israel and we finally get our war with Iran. We'll be fighting on the side of the Israeli's, and Iran will lose, as will Syria, as will the Palestinians. And Israel will certainly be free to do as she wishes to the poor Palestinian people. And that's only if Russia and China stand by and do nothing. If they get involved, the plight of the Palestinians will be the least or our worries.

The administration like to use the simple circumstances like "saving lives", "Liberation" and such, but they don't talk about the wider consequences at all.

And to correct Juan, as the neocons and war hawks always try to do, it is not "isolationism" when we say we don't want to get involved with other nation's internal problems and conflicts. It's called non-intervention and it's far different from isolationism. We don't want to stop trading, stop diplomatic relations. To be a good neighbor means not getting into your neighbor's business unless that neighbor is threatening you.
Syria is absolutely zero threat to the US, period. This civil war is zero threat to the stability of the world even. The threat and instability come from intervention.

Isolationism is just completely cutting off one's nation from everyone else. Trade, immigration, diplomatic ties and everything else. There is no one who is advocating isolationism and I get sick of people like Juan who try and say that those of us who advise against such follies as getting embroiled in another's civil war is somehow "isolationism". It isn't, so stop trying to make that case.
Interventionism and Isolationism are the extremes. Few nations in the world are either of those. Most nations of the world are non interventionists. As it should be. Interventionism causes blowback and increases threats. A good thing if one is wanting to expand power and act irresponsibly without being held to account. As is the current trend of the US.
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby Frigidus on Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:32 am

patches70 wrote:Obama is using all the same rhetoric as Bush jr, bringing democracy, WMDs, saving innocent people, etc etc, and Bush caught hell for it all. Obama does the same thing, and the few Obamaphiles left pat him on the back. Sickening.


As a liberal/progressive I find the average Obama supporter to be much more concerning than even the most raving extremist right winger that you could find. If I were somehow given the choice between Obama's presidency to date and retroactively giving George Bush a third and fourth term I honestly might choose Bush. At least with a Republican in charge we wouldn't have a contingent of Diet Neoconservative apologists.
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby BigBallinStalin on Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:34 am

Qwert wrote:
Juan_Bottom wrote:Why do you guys even think that?

Iran literally cannot in any way oppose Saudi Arabia, the leader of OPEC. If they do, Saudi Arabia will cancel all sales of Iranian Oil across the globe. All Iran can do is give guns to Hezbollah and Assad. Saudi Arabia is aiding the FSA.

Russia doesn't even border Syria, and they so they can't do anything but offer free guns to Assad either.



Somebody makes money in every war. There are a lot of opportunistic douchebags out there.

funny, US also dont board Syria
Boston(US)-Damaskus 8796 km
Sochi(Russia)-Damaskus 1160 km
----------------------------------------------------


Haha, I never noticed the underlined. JB has no idea how the market for oil and OPEC operate. Haha, Saudi Arabia can't simply cancel their sales; it's not like all sales go through them. lol, that's the funniest thing I've pictured. The sheik sits in the Iran-China meetings and establishes quotas which are backed by his... giant army? his mighty harlem? I dunno, haha.


Another gem:
"Russia doesn't even border Syria, and they so they can't do anything but offer free guns to Assad either."

Well, there's these things called boats, and not only can they hold "free guns" (haha), they can also hold people--specifically, soldiers. The Russians have the capital to move armies into there, but they're not willing to intervene through such means.
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby BigBallinStalin on Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:36 am

Frigidus wrote:
patches70 wrote:Obama is using all the same rhetoric as Bush jr, bringing democracy, WMDs, saving innocent people, etc etc, and Bush caught hell for it all. Obama does the same thing, and the few Obamaphiles left pat him on the back. Sickening.


As a liberal/progressive I find the average Obama supporter to be much more concerning than even the most raving extremist right winger that you could find. If I were somehow given the choice between Obama's presidency to date and retroactively giving George Bush a third and fourth term I honestly might choose Bush. At least with a Republican in charge we wouldn't have a contingent of Diet Neoconservative apologists.


Me too, Frigidus. But I also think they're cowards; they're unwilling to be consistently logical/annoyed at similar actions taken by Obama/Bush 2.0. They are afraid of being thought as "not with us" within their Democrat/Progressive/welfare liberal groups of friends.

Perhaps it's like the atheist of old who continues to go to church with his friends and family of believers. To leave and accept the truth would be devastating, so fear sets in, and the status quo perpetuates.
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby macbone on Wed Aug 28, 2013 11:51 am

Saxi, you're right that many of the younger generations of Koreans don't like Americans. I have two cousins who were recently stationed there, and they said the younger generation was very distrustful of Americans. However, they also said that the older generations still liked Americans. I don't know what the cut-off is. According to my cousins, much of the resentment toward the US from the Korean people is the continued US military installations in Korea.

To add to their anecdotal evidence, I had a number of good friends from Korea in university, and I found them warm and open toward the US. I actually would have preferred to have gone to work in Korea rather than China or Hong Kong at that time. Of course, since the Korean students were studying in the US, they'd most likely be predisposed toward liking the US. Also, none of the guys were very enthusiastic about their required military service.

According to this study from 2004, the US is both the most liked country for some South Koreans and one of the most disliked countries for others: http://www.prgs.edu/content/dam/rand/pu ... _TR141.pdf

As to whether the US needs to get involved in another war, I don't yet know enough about the situation, but the rumblings from Moscow and Beijing against a US/UK military intervention make me uneasy.
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby saxitoxin on Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:18 pm

macbone wrote:Saxi, you're right that many of the younger generations of Koreans don't like Americans. I have two cousins who were recently stationed there, and they said the younger generation was very distrustful of Americans. However, they also said that the older generations still liked Americans. I don't know what the cut-off is. According to my cousins, much of the resentment toward the US from the Korean people is the continued US military installations in Korea.

To add to their anecdotal evidence, I had a number of good friends from Korea in university, and I found them warm and open toward the US. I actually would have preferred to have gone to work in Korea rather than China or Hong Kong at that time. Of course, since the Korean students were studying in the US, they'd most likely be predisposed toward liking the US. Also, none of the guys were very enthusiastic about their required military service.

According to this study from 2004, the US is both the most liked country for some South Koreans and one of the most disliked countries for others: http://www.prgs.edu/content/dam/rand/pu ... _TR141.pdf

As to whether the US needs to get involved in another war, I don't yet know enough about the situation, but the rumblings from Moscow and Beijing against a US/UK military intervention make me uneasy.


You're absolutely right and I was definitely oversimplifying in saying Koreans generally dislike the U.S. The B.R. Myers study in JIA I linked to is actually quite interesting in regard to an increasing enmity of ROK students and young people toward the U.S. that began with the collapse of the South Korean military dictatorship in the '80s (?). Myers notes how, with press freedom, younger Koreans began to realize the U.S. was the nation that backed the brutal military juntas that ruled South Korea and started to realize they'd been deceived about the North being "a mere Soviet lackeye" but that, instead, it was a "more radically ethno-natonalist state" than the ROK itself.
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby rishaed on Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:34 pm

31.Albiestar....
aage wrote: Maybe you're right, but since we receive no handlebars from the mod I think we should get some ourselves.

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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby saxitoxin on Wed Aug 28, 2013 12:35 pm

Shen Dingli, a political scientist at Shanghai’s Fudan University, said China would continue to call for patience and urge the United States and others to wait for the results of a U.N probe into last week’s attack. If intervention was what the United States and its allies chose, Beijing would not be upset, he said.

“China openly opposes any intervention, but in reality it would welcome and even hopes for intervention. Why is that? Because by intervening, the United States would be attacking itself. The United States hurt itself when it intervened in Afghanistan in 2002 and again in Iraq in 2003,” he said.

Shen said U.S. intervention in Syria could also affect Washington’s diplomatic and military outreach toward Asia, a policy that Beijing saw was aimed at containing or countering China.

http://m.voanews.com/a/1738509.html


Any U.S. military action taken in response to apparent chemical weapons attacks in Syria would need to be approved by the United Nations Security Council, international envoy Lakhdar Brahimi said on Wednesday.

"I think international law is clear on this. International law says that military action must be taken after a decision by the Security Council. That is what international law says," he told a news conference in Geneva.


UN? Law? We don't need no stinkin' UN. We 'murica!
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby Qwert on Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:49 pm

i notice one thing, and this its that they want to attack Syrian Government for alleged use of chemical weapon, but i can not find what will be if actually rebels use chemical weapon to push US and UK,into action?
I dont hear US ministry of WAR (defense sound to much stupid, nobody attack US for over 70 years-Imperial Japan) that they say "we will bombard rebels if they use chemical weapons"

They all sing same song " attack Government troops" like they are hypnotized from same magician.

They are so desperate, that they will try everything to avoid UN council.
And what its funny,its that they call this Humanitarian action, instead to call Declaration of War.
Its not different, then when Nazi Germany attack Poland, and occupied. This what US and UK want, overthrow of Government, and installing unstable State, who need to have western "democracy" .
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby AndyDufresne on Wed Aug 28, 2013 1:57 pm

It would be pretty amazing to have qwert's worldview. I feel like he's constantly shaking his fist at the sky. Which in his case, is symbolic for the smothering umbrella that is the USA.

qwert, how do you feel about Russia and China's stance, RE: the UN Security Council?


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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby Frigidus on Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:13 pm

Qwert wrote:i notice one thing, and this its that they want to attack Syrian Government for alleged use of chemical weapon, but i can not find what will be if actually rebels use chemical weapon to push US and UK,into action?
I dont hear US ministry of WAR (defense sound to much stupid, nobody attack US for over 70 years-Imperial Japan) that they say "we will bombard rebels if they use chemical weapons"


Well, we did call it the Department of War and had a secretary of war until a little bit after WWII ended. I guess we learned a thing or two about the power of propaganda during that time.
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby Lootifer on Wed Aug 28, 2013 4:00 pm

Frigidus wrote:
patches70 wrote:Obama is using all the same rhetoric as Bush jr, bringing democracy, WMDs, saving innocent people, etc etc, and Bush caught hell for it all. Obama does the same thing, and the few Obamaphiles left pat him on the back. Sickening.


As a liberal/progressive I find the average Obama supporter to be much more concerning than even the most raving extremist right winger that you could find. If I were somehow given the choice between Obama's presidency to date and retroactively giving George Bush a third and fourth term I honestly might choose Bush. At least with a Republican in charge we wouldn't have a contingent of Diet Neoconservative apologists.

^^ This.
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby saxitoxin on Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:22 pm

In Germany, the opposition Social Democratic Party is demanding Merkel and her right-wing Christian-Democratic government not try to involve Germany in any Yankee plot to massacre the people of Syria.

    According to Juan's evolving conspiracy theory, they are being suckered into wanting peace by "corporate media" [sic] and the extremist right-wing Christian-Democratic government is really very progressive and free-thinking.

In Britain, the Labour Party will vote against the right-wing Conservative/LibDem proposal to support America's massacre of the people of Syria.

    According to Juan's evolving conspiracy theory, they are all being suckered into wanting peace by "corporate media" [sic] and the extremist right-wing Conservative government is really very progressive and free-thinking.

In Cuba, the government has said any American attack on the people of Syria would be a flagrant violation of international law and human rights.

    Juan - "something something conspiracy - Raúl Castro is secretly being paid by Exxon - I don't have any proof, just believe me - KILL! KILL! KILL!"

Counter-Punch and Anti-War, the original leading voices against the Bush wars (back in the days when MSNBC fired Phil Donohue for questioning the Iraq war on-air) have both denounced the American plot to kill Syrians.

    Juan - "Clearly they've been compromised by alien mind-control rays!"

In the U.S., Obama's job approval plummets to 35% with just 9% supporting Obama/AIPAC's proposed massacre of Israel's enemy, Syria.

    Juan - It's a plot! It's a plot by the liberal media - er, wait, that's the 2005 line ... I mean by the corporate media! Anyone who doesn't want Murder-Death-Kill with Tomahawk cruise missiles isn't a patriot and hates America!
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Re: List of Things More Popular Than a Potential War with Sy

Postby patches70 on Wed Aug 28, 2013 5:38 pm

Going into the way way back machine, we find this interesting tidbit. Obama was asked this question by Charlie Savage-

Charlie Savage Obama interview question wrote:Q. In what circumstances, if any, would the president have constitutional authority to bomb Iran without seeking a use-of-force authorization from Congress? (Specifically, what about the strategic bombing of suspected nuclear sites — a situation that does not involve stopping an IMMINENT threat?)


To which Obama responded-

Obama in 2007 wrote: The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation.



So, what exactly is the "imminent threat" to the nation that Syria poses? According to Obama, that's the only way the President (when he isn't the President it seems) has the authority to unilaterally authorize a military attack on another nation.

Full interview from 2007 here-
http://www.boston.com/news/politics/200 ... A/ObamaQA/
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