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It's time to have 'the talk' about Universal Postal Union

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It's time to have 'the talk' about Universal Postal Union

Postby HitRed on Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:04 am

Talking about the UPU isn't sexy but it is important so keep reading.

Most people have never heard of this group but I and most business owners viciously hate it.

Simply put if a box ships from (example) China to New York postage is $2.70. That same box going the opposite way from New York to China is $10.00. :o If I receive that same box from China in Texas and ship it to New York my postage cost is $7.00. Wow, is the world getting a deal! :twisted:

Last year the USPS was 170 MILLION in the red. That loss is paid by the US tax payer year after year.

Our historic trade deal writers sucked eggs.

Please keep in mind China is the second largest economy in the world. Shouldn't it already be paying the same rate we do?

This isn't fair at all. Time for a rewrite.

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles ... nd=opinion
Last edited by HitRed on Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: It's time to have 'the talk' about Universal Postal Unio

Postby saxitoxin on Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:30 am

HitRed wrote:Talking about the UPU isn't sexy but it is important so keep reading.

Most people have never heard of this group but I and most business owners viciously hate it.

Simply put if a box ships from (example) China to New York postage is $2.70. That same box going the opposite way from New York to China is $10.00. :o If I receive that same box from China in Texas and ship it to New York my postage cost is $7.00. Wow, is the world getting a deal! :twisted:

Last year the USPS was 170 MILLION in the red. That loss is paid by the US tax payer year after year.

Our historic trade deal writers sucked eggs.

Please keep in mind China is the second largest economy in the world. Shouldn't it already be paying the same rate we do?

This isn't fair at all. Time for a rewrite.


Agreed. This is another good decision by TRUMP to withdraw from the UPU.
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Re: It's time to have 'the talk' about Universal Postal Unio

Postby mrswdk on Thu Oct 18, 2018 4:56 am

HitRed wrote:Please keep in mind China is the second largest economy in the world. Shouldn't it already be paying the same rate we do?


China is a developing economy with a GDP per capita that is roughly 25% that of the US.
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Re: It's time to have 'the talk' about Universal Postal Unio

Postby Dukasaur on Thu Oct 18, 2018 8:46 am

HitRed wrote:Talking about the UPU isn't sexy but it is important so keep reading.

Most people have never heard of this group but I and most business owners viciously hate it.

Simply put if a box ships from (example) China to New York postage is $2.70. That same box going the opposite way from New York to China is $10.00. :o If I receive that same box from China in Texas and ship it to New York my postage cost is $7.00. Wow, is the world getting a deal! :twisted:

Last year the USPS was 170 MILLION in the red. That loss is paid by the US tax payer year after year.

Our historic trade deal writers sucked eggs.

Please keep in mind China is the second largest economy in the world. Shouldn't it already be paying the same rate we do?

This isn't fair at all. Time for a rewrite.


You're barking up the wrong tree. While the UPU did allow developing nations to set lower rates than developed nations, it didn't set them that low. The ridiculously low prices charged to Pacific Rim nations were negotiated in 2011 at the insistence of the US.

It's the USPS that wanted those prices set so low, to defend its monopoly and make it unprofitable for private carriers like FedEx to enter the market. No other G7 nation has such an extreme rate differential versus the Pacific Rim nations. https://psmag.com/economics/the-international-postal-system-is-profoundly-brokenand-nobody-is-paying-attention
The history of the UPU since 1969 has largely been a war of position over who wins and who loses on terminal dues. Ongoing postal liberalization since the 1980s has added another twist—because terminal dues rates were only available to designated national postal services, keeping them low became a way of excluding private couriers like FedEx and DHL from parts of the mail market, including parts where they could have offered big cost savings over national posts. Broadly, this has led to the USPS and its allies in low-cost and developing systems supporting unnaturally low terminal dues, while more internationally competitive and high-cost systems like Germany and Norway advocate a system that recognizes real costs. The low-cost side has generally been successful—sometimes too much so. One draft UPU agreement—known as REIMS—was officially deemed an attempt at price-fixing by the European Commission, and had to be re-drafted.

Yes, you're getting badly fucked here. But it's your own government doing the fucking. The overpaid nabobs at the USPS figure losing a few hundred million is well worth it as long as FedEx isn't making anything either.
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Re: It's time to have 'the talk' about Universal Postal Unio

Postby HitRed on Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:46 am

"Our historic trade deal writers sucked eggs."

It good to have more details. I did put the onus for the problem on the US.

HitRed
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Re: It's time to have 'the talk' about Universal Postal Unio

Postby Dukasaur on Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:50 am

HitRed wrote:"Our historic trade deal writers sucked eggs."

It good to have more details. I did put the onus for the problem on the US.

HitRed


It's true, you did put the albatross on the U.S., but saying the deal writers sucked eggs implies that they did it through incompetence, which is incorrect. They knew what they wanted and they got exactly that.
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Re: It's time to have 'the talk' about Universal Postal Unio

Postby 2dimes on Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:59 am

The point is so the people that make your iPhones can afford to send mail to their friends and family who have escaped.
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Re: It's time to have 'the talk' about Universal Postal Unio

Postby mrswdk on Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:59 am

Dukasaur wrote:The ridiculously low prices charged to Pacific Rim nations were negotiated in 2011 at the insistence of the US.


Thanks, Obama.

HitRed wrote:"Our historic trade deal writers sucked eggs."


But did he teach his grandmother to suck them as well?
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Re: It's time to have 'the talk' about Universal Postal Unio

Postby HitRed on Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:19 am

Duka, can you post a link about the 2011 postal agreement? I'll search all over about Obama and the Pacific Rim and couldn't locate it.

Pacific Rim nations were negotiated in 2011 at the insistence of the US.
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Re: It's time to have 'the talk' about Universal Postal Unio

Postby Dukasaur on Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:48 pm

HitRed wrote:Duka, can you post a link about the 2011 postal agreement? I'll search all over about Obama and the Pacific Rim and couldn't locate it.

Pacific Rim nations were negotiated in 2011 at the insistence of the US.


I've been searching for a firsthand account or something published in 2011, but coming up dry. Unfortunately search engines prioritize newer articles so no matter how I set the search terms 90% of what's coming up is something published this year, so it's all second- and third-hand discussion.

Here's the closest to an original document I could find:
https://www.uspsoig.gov/document/inbound-china-epacket-costing-methodology
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Re: It's time to have 'the talk' about Universal Postal Unio

Postby HitRed on Thu Oct 18, 2018 5:52 pm

Thanks Duka. Very interesting.
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