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Great Military Battles in History

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Re: Great Battles in History

Postby jusplay4fun on Fri Jun 17, 2022 4:32 pm

More on the Battle of Tours:

The Battle of Poitiers aka the Battle of Tours took place over roughly a week in early October of 732. The opposing sides consisted of a Frankish army led by Charles Martel (r. 718-741) against an invading Muslim army under the nominal sovereignty of the Umayyad Caliphate (c. 661-750) based in Damascus, Syria.

These two forces came together as Umayyad power sought expansion and plunder in European lands, while Frankish lords sought to defend and consolidate hold over their territory. Some have argued that this brief conflict influenced the fate of Christian civilization in Europe, while others see it as a simple border skirmish. The truth, it seems, lies somewhere in-between.

Though resulting in a Frankish victory, it was not simply Frankish power or the Battle of Tours alone which ultimately halted Umayyad expansion into Western Europe. Internal division within the Umayyad Caliphate itself, affecting its ability to wage war in the region was a major factor. In a broader context, Tours was not a determinant confrontation between the two sides, nor did it effectively deter or immediately diminish Umayyad strength in the region. Rather, the significance of Tours can be found in the circumstances occurring in the wake of Charles’s quick victory over Umayyad power.


https://www.worldhistory.org/article/1809/the-legacy-of-charles-martel--the-battle-of-tours/

Umayyad Dynasty

The Umayyad Dynasty (661-750 CE), the first dynasty to take the title of Caliphate, was established in 661 CE by Muawiya (l. c. 602-680 CE), who had served as the governor of Syria under the Rashidun Caliphate, after the death of the fourth caliph, Ali in 661 CE. The Umayyads ruled effectively and firmly established the political authority of the Caliphate, rebellions were crushed with brute force, and no quarter was given to those who stirred uprisings.

They ruled over a large empire, to which they added vast newly conquered areas such as that of North Africa (beyond Egypt), Spain, Transoxiana, parts of the Indian subcontinent, and multiple islands in the Mediterranean (but most of these were lost). Although the empire was at its ever largest size during their reign, internal divisions and civil wars weakened their hold over it, and in 750 CE, they were overthrown by the Abbasids (r. 750-1258 CE, a rival Arab faction who claimed to be descended from the Prophet's uncle Abbas).

Prelude

After the death of the Islamic Prophet Muhammad (l. 570-632 CE), Abu Bakr (r. 632-634 CE, a senior companion of the Prophet) took the title of the Caliph, hence forming the basis of the Islamic Caliphates (intermittently: 632-1924 CE). Abu Bakr was the first of the four initial caliphs referred collectively by the mainstream Sunni Muslims as the Rashidun Caliphs, while the Shia Muslims only consider the fourth one of these, Ali (a close companion and son-in-law of the Prophet), the sole legitimate candidate for the Caliphate.

In the Rashidun period, the armies of Islam launched full-scale invasions into Syria, the Levant, Egypt, parts of North Africa, the islands of the Greek archipelago, and the whole of the Sassanian Empire. These conquests were initiated by Abu Bakr and successfully carried on by his successors Umar (r. 634-644 CE) and Uthman (r. 644-656 CE). Uthman, however, was not a strong ruler and was murdered in his own house by rebels in 656 CE. His death marked the breaking point in the history of the Islamic empire: his successor Ali (r. 656-661 CE) was pinned between handling a disintegrating realm and people insisting that justice be served to his dead predecessor.

https://www.worldhistory.org/Umayyad_Dynasty/
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Re: Great Battles in History

Postby ConfederateSS on Fri Jun 17, 2022 10:07 pm

jusplay4fun wrote:I will pick on one minor point by ConfedSS about the Battle of Plataea.

Yes, those months did not exist when the actual battle occurred. BUT neither did the calendar that gave it the year 479 B.C. (or B.C.E.).

The actual date is translated into our modern calendar, BOTH month and year. Who knew in that year that much later those who recorded history would re-set the calendar and that 479 years LATER another and more significant historical event would occur?

---------I was making fun of Wiki... :roll: ....
----------Before I respond to 479 B.C...which all wiki had to say...No month was really needed, in an Ancient World battle...B.C...

-----------When I said The 1st Greek Victory...I ment after The 300...The Greeks Turned the tide...In a counter offensive...That the Greeks never looked back...As Alexander delt the death blow to the Persian Empire...
----------- The Greeks won at Ionia and The Battle of Marathon before ,and which led to the last stand of The 300...

-------- What happened 479 years later after Plataea?,...A.D. :!: ... BABY JESUS. Was born =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> GOD came to Earth....
--------- ..But Our Georgian Calander , was based on The Julian Calendar made in 46/45 B.C., updated in 8 A.D....The Julian Calendar was based on Romulus's Calander of 738 B.C....
-------- If they wanted to put a month on it reflecting an approximate date...It would be more the Battle of Plataea like late June 479 B.C...Thanks to Romulus's Calander...There was a 479 B.C.. :D ..
... O:) ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)... O:)
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Re: Great Battles in History

Postby jusplay4fun on Fri Jun 17, 2022 11:22 pm

ConfedSS,

I think we both agree that this Battle is HUGE in the History of the World, on whatever date it is recorded on whatever Calendar or reckoning of time.

And yes, I use B.C. and NOT adding that STOOOOPID extra letter, B.C.E.

There is debate as to the exact date of the Birth of Jesus, the Christ. NO Importa. For MANY years, dates were reckoned time as A.D. I do not really care what today's date is by the Jewish, Muslim, Chinese, or other Calendars. The shift from the Julian to Gregorian Calendar had NO major impact, either.

If another calendar is deemed needed, and not our current Gregorian Calendar, I propose we use the Mayan Calendar instead. Or why not use the IFC?

International Fixed Calendar
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The International Fixed Calendar (also known as the IFC, Cotsworth plan, the Cotsworth calendar and the Eastman plan) is a proposed calendar reform designed by Moses B. Cotsworth, first presented in 1902.[1] The solar calendar divides the year into 13 months of 28 days each. A type of perennial calendar, every date is fixed to the same weekday every year. Though never officially adopted in any country, entrepreneur George Eastman applied it at Eastman Kodak Company, where it was used from 1928 to 1989.[2] While sometimes described as the 13-month calendar or the equal-month calendar, various alternative calendar designs share these features.


btw: SMALL minded persons resort to name calling when they cannot present arguments of logic or coherence. ANOTHER Failure.
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Re: Great Battles in History

Postby ConfederateSS on Thu Jun 23, 2022 2:10 am

-----------I Love A.D...As the attack on GOD is everywhere... :( ...But that said....I am Kool 8-) ...with using the Mayan Calendar...... O:) ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)... O:) ......The Chinese are the smartest people in the World....They have proved it the past 5,000 years with an Empire...They are proving it today....So, it might be , the world will soon be going out for Chinese, when it comes to Calanders, The History of The World....
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Re: Great Battles in History

Postby jusplay4fun on Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:17 am

ConfederateSS wrote:-----------I Love A.D...As the attack on GOD is everywhere... :( ...But that said....I am Kool 8-) ...with using the Mayan Calendar...... O:) ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)... O:) ......The Chinese are the smartest people in the World....They have proved it the past 5,000 years with an Empire...They are proving it today....So, it might be , the world will soon be going out for Chinese, when it comes to Calanders, The History of The World....


To claim any people or ethnic group or nation the
SMARTEST people in the World

is not wise, imo, ConFedSS.

If you offer an opinion, I will nominate MINE: the Mayan. After All, did they not predict the End of the World..in 2012??

Mayan time is marked in days (one day is called a kin), periods of 20 days (a uinal, or 20 kin), 360 days (a tun, or 18 uinal), 7,200 days (a katun, or 20 tun) and 144,000 days (a baktun, or 20 katun). December 21, 2012 marks the ending of the 13th baktun, which ends the Long Count cycle of 5,126 solar year

https://www.aaas.org/myths-mayan-long-count-calendar#:~:text=Mayan%20time%20is%20marked%20in,cycle%20of%205%2C126%20solar%20years.

The 2012 phenomenon was a range of eschatological beliefs that cataclysmic or transformative events would occur on or around 21 December 2012.[1] This date was regarded as the end-date of a 5,126-year-long cycle in the Mesoamerican Long Count calendar,[2] and festivities took place on 21 December 2012 to commemorate the event in the countries that were part of the Maya civilization (Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, and El Salvador), with main events at Chichén Itzá in Mexico and Tikal in Guatemala.[3][4][5]

Various astronomical alignments and numerological formulae were proposed for this date. A New Age interpretation held that the date marked the start of a period during which Earth and its inhabitants would undergo a positive physical or spiritual transformation, and that 21 December 2012 would mark the beginning of a new era.[6] Others suggested that the date marked the end of the world or a similar catastrophe. Scenarios suggested for the end of the world included the arrival of the next solar maximum, an interaction between Earth and the supermassive black hole at the center of the galaxy,[7] or Earth's collision with a mythical planet called Nibiru.

Scholars from various disciplines quickly dismissed predictions of cataclysmic events as they arose. Mayan scholars stated that no classic Mayan accounts forecast impending doom, and the idea that the Long Count calendar ends in 2012 misrepresented Mayan history and culture.[8][9][10] Astronomers rejected the various proposed doomsday scenarios as pseudoscience[11][12] refuted by elementary astronomical observations.[13]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_phenomenon
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Re: Great Battles in History

Postby bigtoughralf on Sat Jun 25, 2022 3:22 am

jusplay4fun wrote:
ConfederateSS wrote:-----------I Love A.D...As the attack on GOD is everywhere... :( ...But that said....I am Kool 8-) ...with using the Mayan Calendar...... O:) ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)... O:) ......The Chinese are the smartest people in the World....They have proved it the past 5,000 years with an Empire...They are proving it today....So, it might be , the world will soon be going out for Chinese, when it comes to Calanders, The History of The World....


To claim any people or ethnic group or nation the
SMARTEST people in the World

is not wise, imo, ConFedSS


He's right though. This is China's planet and your war crimes nation state is merely renting a place in it. Mandarin lessons will be compulsory at American state school before this century is out.
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Re: Great Battles in History

Postby mookiemcgee on Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:59 am

bigtoughralf wrote:
jusplay4fun wrote:
ConfederateSS wrote:-----------I Love A.D...As the attack on GOD is everywhere... :( ...But that said....I am Kool 8-) ...with using the Mayan Calendar...... O:) ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)... O:) ......The Chinese are the smartest people in the World....They have proved it the past 5,000 years with an Empire...They are proving it today....So, it might be , the world will soon be going out for Chinese, when it comes to Calanders, The History of The World....


To claim any people or ethnic group or nation the
SMARTEST people in the World

is not wise, imo, ConFedSS


He's right though. This is China's planet and your war crimes nation state is merely renting a place in it. Mandarin lessons will be compulsory at American state school before this century is out.


You think there will still be state run schools by the time this century is out? Clearly you don't know America very well.
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Re: Great Battles in History

Postby jusplay4fun on Sat Jun 25, 2022 1:27 pm

mookiemcgee wrote:
bigtoughralf wrote:
jusplay4fun wrote:
ConfederateSS wrote:-----------I Love A.D...As the attack on GOD is everywhere... :( ...But that said....I am Kool 8-) ...with using the Mayan Calendar...... O:) ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)... O:) ......The Chinese are the smartest people in the World....They have proved it the past 5,000 years with an Empire...They are proving it today....So, it might be , the world will soon be going out for Chinese, when it comes to Calanders, The History of The World....


To claim any people or ethnic group or nation the
SMARTEST people in the World

is not wise, imo, ConFedSS


He's right though. This is China's planet and your war crimes nation state is merely renting a place in it. Mandarin lessons will be compulsory at American state school before this century is out.


You think there will still be state run schools by the time this century is out? Clearly you don't know America very well.


The poor analysis by poorsmallRalf does not account for the birthrate and the declining/aging population of China.

China is experiencing unprecedented demographic transition together with the radical
social and economic transformation. Demographically speaking China is now a
developed country. However, China’s future population growth is substantial, a solely
result of the population momentum built into the age structure by past fertility and
mortality. 10 percent or 135 million increase is expected in the next 25 years under
the medium fertility scenario. China would reach a maximum population of 1443
million in 2030, followed by a long-term population decline.

Two major changes of the future population age structure of China are continuing
demographic dividend and rapid population ageing. China’s demographic window of
opportunity opened at 1990 and will close at 2033. Having a work force of around one
billion has many advantages if we consider only the dependency ratio in the
population or the labour supply for the development. However, China will be also
experiencing a rapid population ageing after 2015. One fifth to one quarter of the
Chinese population would be older people at age 65 or over after 2035. The year of
2029 would be a turning point in China’s age structure transition, when for the first
time in Chinese history the elderly population would exceed the child population.

https://vuir.vu.edu.au/38918/1/g-191.pdf
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Re: Great Battles in History

Postby mookiemcgee on Sat Jun 25, 2022 4:39 pm

I believe India is set to surpass China in pop in 3-4 more years...neat chart in the link

https://www.reddit.com/r/Nigeria/commen ... ears_fast/
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Re: Great Battles in History

Postby bigtoughralf on Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:29 pm

Anyone who thinks India having more births means it is going to replace China as the world's superpower is high, not sober, or just plain butters. There are more domestic chickens in the UK than there are humans but we're still centuries away from our first chicken prime minister.
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Re: Great Battles in History

Postby mookiemcgee on Sat Jun 25, 2022 6:40 pm

Good thing I didn't say that! (but i mean... I might be a little bit high rn)
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Re: Great Battles in History

Postby jusplay4fun on Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:29 pm

Apparently the ONLY thing that poor ralph can brag about claim on CC is winning 32 points in one game from the llama; good one, poor ralph. Keep on bragging on that ONE achievement, from six months ago.
Last edited by jusplay4fun on Sun Jun 26, 2022 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Great Battles in History

Postby jonesthecurl on Sat Jun 25, 2022 10:46 pm

On the original topic, this month's 'Military History' has an interesting article on the battle of Sluys. one which had previously escaped my attention.
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Re: Great Battles in History

Postby jusplay4fun on Sat Jun 25, 2022 11:09 pm

jonesthecurl wrote:On the original topic, this month's 'Military History' has an interesting article on the battle of Sluys. one which had previously escaped my attention.



Thanks, Jonesy
This is a period of time I know rather little about, other than Joan of Arc.

The Battle of Sluys (/ˈslɔɪz/; Dutch pronunciation: [slœys]), also called the Battle of l'Écluse, was a naval battle fought on 24 June 1340 between England and France. It took place in the roadstead of the port of Sluys (French Écluse), on a since silted-up inlet between Zeeland and West Flanders. The English fleet of 120–150 ships was led by Edward III of England and the 230-strong French fleet by the Breton knight Hugues Quiéret, Admiral of France, and Nicolas Béhuchet, Constable of France. The battle was one of the opening engagements of the Hundred Years' War.


also:

Hundred Years' War
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Historical significance
The French victory marked the end of a long period of instability that had been seeded with the Norman Conquest (1066), when William the Conqueror added "King of England" to his titles, becoming both the vassal to (as Duke of Normandy) and the equal of (as king of England) the king of France.[88]

When the war ended, England was bereft of its Continental possessions, leaving it with only Calais on the continent (until 1558). The war destroyed the English dream of a joint monarchy and led to the rejection in England of all things French, although the French language in England, which had served as the language of the ruling classes and commerce there from the time of the Norman conquest, left many vestiges in English vocabulary. English became the official language in 1362 and French was no longer used for teaching from 1385.[89]

National feeling that emerged from the war unified both France and England further. Despite the devastation on its soil, the Hundred Years' War accelerated the process of transforming France from a feudal monarchy to a centralised state.[90] In England the political and financial troubles which emerged from the defeat were a major cause of the War of the Roses (1455–1487).[83]
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Re: Great Battles in History

Postby jimboston on Sun Jun 26, 2022 9:19 am

bigtoughralf wrote:Anyone who thinks India having more births means it is going to replace China as the world's superpower is high, not sober, or just plain butters. There are more domestic chickens in the UK than there are humans but we're still centuries away from our first chicken prime minister.


So your equating India people with chickens…. no not racist. Not at all.

India has the Nuke.

India loses a ton of brainpower because the best-brightest often choose to take their education and move to Europe and the US. They do this because the poor prospects and political situation. It’s certainly possible that within the next 20-30 years enough could change such that people would choose to stay… this could cause rapid changes in how India presents itself on the World Stage.

Neither result is absolutely predetermined… but to assume change can’t happen because ‘Indians are dumb like chickens’ is somewhat short sighted.
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Re: Great Battles in History

Postby bigtoughralf on Sun Jun 26, 2022 1:26 pm

jimboston wrote:India has the Nuke.


So do Pakistan and North Korea. I guess the world's going to have a lot of superpowers soon!

to assume change can’t happen because ‘Indians are dumb like chickens’ is somewhat short sighted.


I never said that and it's interesting how your mind immediately went to crude racist insults. I suppose it's not your fault, you've been raised on a diet of American news entertainment media where racism is the norm.

Change can't happen because in China's 70 years of independence it's developed the world's largest high speed rail network, its own indigenous aircraft carriers, supply chain logistics that make it crucial to the global economy etc whereas in India's same 70 years of independence it's basically focused on opening a bunch of call centres, throwing sticks at Pakistani and Chinese soldiers near its borders, and initiating pogroms against its Muslim population.
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Re: Great Battles in History

Postby jusplay4fun on Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:04 pm

Small minded people with DUMM brains continue to throw up insults and denigrating remarks. When they cannot use logic, debate, or proper refutation, they resort to name-calling, insults, and demeaning language. I keep hoping for a modicum of intelligence, but it is hard to find amongst all the vitriolic words and hate-filled sentiments expressed.
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Re: Great Battles in History

Postby jusplay4fun on Sun Jun 26, 2022 3:13 pm

Divine winds help Japan repulse two attacks by the Mongols who tried to invade Japan in 1274 and again in 1281.

Mongol invasions of Japan
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Major military efforts were taken by Kublai Khan of the Yuan dynasty in 1274 and 1281 to conquer the Japanese archipelago after the submission of the Korean kingdom of Goryeo to vassaldom. Ultimately a failure, the invasion attempts are of macro-historical importance because they set a limit on Mongol expansion and rank as nation-defining events in the history of Japan. The invasions are referred to in many works of fiction and are the earliest events for which the word kamikaze ("divine wind") is widely used, originating in reference to the two typhoons faced by the Yuan fleets.

The invasions were one of the earliest cases of gunpowder warfare outside of China. One of the most notable technological innovations during the war was the use of explosive, hand-thrown bombs.[7]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasions_of_Japan

The kamikaze (Japanese: 神風, lit. 'divine wind') were two winds or storms that are said to have saved Japan from two Mongol fleets under Kublai Khan. These fleets attacked Japan in 1274 and again in 1281.[1] Due to the growth of Zen Buddhism among Samurai at the time, these were the first events where the typhoons were described as "divine wind" as much by their timing as by their force.

The latter fleet, composed of "more than four thousand ships bearing nearly 140,000 men",[2] is said to have been the largest attempted naval invasion in history whose scale was only recently eclipsed in modern times by the D-Day invasion of allied forces into Normandy in 1944. The size of the fleet is often disputed by modern historians, however.

Events
In the first invasion, the Mongols successfully conquered the Japanese settlements on Tsushima and Iki islands. When they landed on Hakata Bay, however, they met fierce resistance by the armies of samurai clans and were forced to withdraw to their bases in China. In the midst of the withdrawal, they were hit by a typhoon. Most of their ships sank and many soldiers drowned.[3][better source needed]

The first incident took place in autumn 1274 when a Mongol fleet of 500 to 900 ships carrying 30,000 to 40,000 men attacked Japan. While in Hakata Bay, Kyushu, a typhoon hit the fleet. An estimated 13,000 men drowned, around one-third of the ships sank, and the rest were damaged.[4]

During the time period between the first and second invasion, the Japanese prudently built two-meter-high walls to protect themselves from future assaults.

Seven years later, the Mongols returned. Unable to find any suitable landing beaches due to the walls, the fleet stayed afloat for months and depleted their supplies as they searched for an area to land. After months of being exposed to the elements, the fleet was destroyed by a great typhoon, which the Japanese called "kamikaze" (divine wind). The Mongols never attacked Japan again, and more than 70,000 men were said to have been captured.[5]

The second fleet was larger, comprising two forces with an estimated total of 4,400 ships and 140,000 men, greatly outnumbering the Japanese soldiers, who had an estimated 40,000 samurai and other fighting men. The typhoon led to the death of at least half the men, and only a few hundred vessels survived. Following the storm, most survivors were killed by the Japanese. This event is considered "one of the largest and most disastrous attempts at a naval invasion in history."[4]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamikaze_(typhoon)
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Re: Great Battles in History

Postby jimboston on Mon Jun 27, 2022 1:46 pm

bigtoughralf wrote:
jimboston wrote:India has the Nuke.


So do Pakistan and North Korea. I guess the world's going to have a lot of superpowers soon!

to assume change can’t happen because ‘Indians are dumb like chickens’ is somewhat short sighted.


I never said that and it's interesting how your mind immediately went to crude racist insults. I suppose it's not your fault, you've been raised on a diet of American news entertainment media where racism is the norm.

Change can't happen because in China's 70 years of independence it's developed the world's largest high speed rail network, its own indigenous aircraft carriers, supply chain logistics that make it crucial to the global economy etc whereas in India's same 70 years of independence it's basically focused on opening a bunch of call centres, throwing sticks at Pakistani and Chinese soldiers near its borders, and initiating pogroms against its Muslim population.


I agree, the political situation in China enabled growth over the past half-century… and India was not able to capitalize in that same time period.

To assume that same growth pattern will continue for the next half-century is short sighted and does not factor in the possibility of political change. It;s actually unreasonable to think India won’t adapt.
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Re: Great Battles in History

Postby jusplay4fun on Mon Jun 27, 2022 3:55 pm

Results of the Failed Mongol invasion of Japan:

Aftermath

Shōni Kagesuke and his forces in Akasaka
The defeated Mongol Empire lost most of its naval power, and its naval defense capability declined significantly.[52] Korea, which was in charge of shipbuilding for the invasion, also lost its ability to build ships and its ability to defend the sea since a large amount of lumber was cut down.[53] On the other hand, in Japan there was no newly-acquired land because it was a defensive war and so the Kamakura shogunate could not give rewards to gokenin who participated in the battle, and its authority declined.[54] Later, taking advantage of the situation, the number of Japanese joining the wokou began to increase, and attacks on the coasts of China and Korea intensified.[52]

As a result of the war, there was a growing recognition in China that the Japanese were brave and violent and the invasion of Japan was futile. During the Ming Dynasty, invasion into Japan was discussed three times, but it was never carried out considering the result of this war.[55][56][57]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_invasions_of_Japan
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Re: Great Battles in History

Postby bigtoughralf on Mon Jun 27, 2022 5:00 pm

jimboston wrote:
bigtoughralf wrote:
jimboston wrote:India has the Nuke.


So do Pakistan and North Korea. I guess the world's going to have a lot of superpowers soon!

to assume change can’t happen because ‘Indians are dumb like chickens’ is somewhat short sighted.


I never said that and it's interesting how your mind immediately went to crude racist insults. I suppose it's not your fault, you've been raised on a diet of American news entertainment media where racism is the norm.

Change can't happen because in China's 70 years of independence it's developed the world's largest high speed rail network, its own indigenous aircraft carriers, supply chain logistics that make it crucial to the global economy etc whereas in India's same 70 years of independence it's basically focused on opening a bunch of call centres, throwing sticks at Pakistani and Chinese soldiers near its borders, and initiating pogroms against its Muslim population.


I agree, the political situation in China enabled growth over the past half-century… and India was not able to capitalize in that same time period.

To assume that same growth pattern will continue for the next half-century is short sighted and does not factor in the possibility of political change. It;s actually unreasonable to think India won’t adapt.


True, India could abandon its failed imitation of Western political institutions, embrace the Beijing Consensus and use a more centralised model of management to slingshot its economic development. But until it does so it will just have to content itself with being America's sacrificial pawn.
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Re: Great Battles in History

Postby jusplay4fun on Mon Jun 27, 2022 8:30 pm

The Mongol Invasions of Japan
Kublai Khan's Quests for Domination in 1274 and 1281

(...)

Japan's Military Weaknesses
Suenaga relates that the samurai army set out to fight according to their code of bushido; a warrior would step out, announce his name and lineage, and prepare for one-on-one combat with a foe. Unfortunately for the Japanese, the Mongols were not familiar with the code. When a lone samurai stepped forward to challenge them, the Mongols would simply attack him en masse, much like ants swarming a beetle.

To make matters worse for the Japanese, the Yuan forces also used poison-tipped arrows, catapult-launched explosive shells, and a shorter bow that was accurate at twice the range of the samurai's longbows. In addition, the Mongols fought in units, rather than each man for himself. Drumbeats relayed the orders guiding their precisely coordinated attacks. All of this was new to the samurai—often fatally so.

Takezaki Suenaga and the three other warriors from his household were all unhorsed in the fighting, and each sustained serious wounds that day. A late charge by over 100 Japanese reinforcements was all that saved Suenaga and his men. The injured samurai drew back a few miles from the bay for the night, determined to renew their nearly hopeless defense in the morning. As night fell, a driving wind and heavy rain began to lash the coast.

Close Call with Domination
Unbeknownst to the Japanese defenders, the Chinese and Korean sailors on board Kublai Khan's ships were busy persuading the Mongolian generals to let them weigh anchor and head further out to sea. They worried that the strong wind and high surf would drive their ships aground in Hakata Bay.

The Mongols relented, and the great Armada sailed out into open waters—straight into the arms of an approaching typhoon. Two days later, a third of the Yuan ships lay on the bottom of the Pacific, and perhaps 13,000 of Kublai Khan's soldiers and sailors had drowned.

The battered survivors limped home, and Japan was spared the Great Khan's dominion—for the time being. While Kublai Khan sat at his capital in Dadu (modern-day Beijing) and brooded over his fleet's misfortunes, the samurai waited for the bakufu in Kamakura to reward them for their valor, but that reward never came.

The Second Invasion, 1281
In the spring of 1281, the Japanese got word that a second Yuan invasion force was coming their way. The waiting samurai sharpened their swords and prayed to Hachiman, the Shinto god of war, but Kublai Khan was determined to smash Japan this time and he knew that his defeat seven years earlier had simply been bad luck, due more to the weather than to any extraordinary fighting prowess of the samurai.

With more forewarning of this second attack, Japan was able to muster 40,000 samurai and other fighting men. They assembled behind the defensive wall at Hakata Bay, their eyes trained to the west.

The Mongols sent two separate forces this time—an impressive force of 900 ships containing 40,000 Korean, Chinese, and Mongol troops set out from Masan, while an even larger force of 100,000 sailed from southern China in 3,500 ships. The Ministry for Conquering Japan's plan called for an overwhelming coordinated attack from the combined imperial Yuan fleets.

The Korean fleet reached Hakata Bay on June 23, 1281, but the ships from China were nowhere to be seen. The smaller division of the Yuan army was unable to breach the Japanese defensive wall, so a stationary battle evolved. Samurai weakened their opponents by rowing out to the Mongol ships in small boats under cover of darkness, setting fire to the ships and attacking their troops, and then rowing back to land.

These night-time raids demoralized the Mongols' conscripts, some of whom had only recently been conquered and had no love for the emperor. A stalemate between the evenly-matched foes lasted for 50 days, as the Korean fleet waited for the expected Chinese reinforcements.

On August 12, the Mongols' main fleet landed to the west of Hakata Bay. Now faced with a force more than three times as large as their own, the samurai were in serious danger of being overrun and slaughtered. With little hope of survival—and little thought of reward if they triumphed—the Japanese samurai fought on with desperate bravery.

Japan's Miracle
They say that truth is stranger than fiction, and in this case, it's certainly true. Just when it appeared that the samurai would be exterminated and Japan crushed under the Mongol yoke, an incredible, miraculous event took place.

On August 15, 1281, a second typhoon roared ashore at Kyushu. Of the khan's 4,400 ships, only a few hundred rode out the towering waves and vicious winds. Nearly all of the invaders drowned in the storm, and those few thousand who made it to shore were hunted and killed without mercy by the samurai with very few returning to tell the tale at Dadu.


The Japanese believed that their gods had sent the storms to preserve Japan from the Mongols. They called the two storms kamikaze, or "divine winds." Kublai Khan seemed to agree that Japan was protected by supernatural forces, thus abandoning the idea of conquering the island nation.

The Aftermath
For the Kamakura bakufu, however, the outcome was disastrous. Once again the samurai demanded payment for the three months they'd spent warding off the Mongols. In addition, this time the priests who had prayed for divine protection added their own payment demands, citing the typhoons as evidence of the effectiveness of their prayers.

The bakufu still had little to dispense, and what disposable riches they had were given to the priests, who held more influence in the capital than the samurai. Suenaga did not even try to seek payment, instead commissioning the scroll where most modern understandings of this period come from as a record of his own accomplishments during both invasions.

Dissatisfaction with the Kamakura bakufu festered among the ranks of the samurai over the following decades. When a strong emperor, Go-Daigo (1288–1339), rose in 1318 and challenged the authority of the bakufu, the samurai refused to rally to the military leaders' defense.

After a complex civil war lasting 15 years, the Kamakura bakufu was defeated and the Ashikaga Shogunate assumed power over Japan. The Ashikaga family and all the other samurai passed down the story of the kamikaze, and Japan's warriors drew strength and inspiration from the legend for centuries.

As late as World War II from 1939 to 1945, Japanese imperial troops invoked the kamikaze in their battles against the Allied forces in the Pacific and its story still influences the nature's culture to this day.

https://www.thoughtco.com/the-mongol-invasions-of-japan-195559
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Re: Great Battles in History

Postby jimboston on Tue Jun 28, 2022 7:19 am

bigtoughralf wrote:
True, India could abandon its failed imitation of Western political institutions, embrace the Beijing Consensus and use a more centralised model of management to slingshot its economic development. But until it does so it will just have to content itself with being America's sacrificial pawn.


:roll:
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Re: Great Battles in History

Postby bigtoughralf on Tue Jun 28, 2022 11:01 am

jimboston wrote:
bigtoughralf wrote:
True, India could abandon its failed imitation of Western political institutions, embrace the Beijing Consensus and use a more centralised model of management to slingshot its economic development. But until it does so it will just have to content itself with being America's sacrificial pawn.


:roll:


Roll your eyes all you like but it's true, India's successive governments have long been too terrified of upcoming elections to take the sort of radical steps needed to boost its development (privatisation of state enterprises, land clearance to build infrastructure etc). The last time they tried to deregulate the rural economy, in 2020, they were forced to give up because some farmers got upset.

The longer India continues to run the same political system that administered the collapse of the largest empire the world has ever known, the longer it will continue to sit in China's shadow.
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Gazans killed by Israel's illegal invasion: 35,456
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Re: Great Battles in History

Postby jimboston on Tue Jun 28, 2022 12:58 pm

bigtoughralf wrote:
jimboston wrote:
bigtoughralf wrote:
True, India could abandon its failed imitation of Western political institutions, embrace the Beijing Consensus and use a more centralised model of management to slingshot its economic development. But until it does so it will just have to content itself with being America's sacrificial pawn.


:roll:


Roll your eyes all you like but it's true, India's successive governments have long been too terrified of upcoming elections to take the sort of radical steps needed to boost its development (privatisation of state enterprises, land clearance to build infrastructure etc). The last time they tried to deregulate the rural economy, in 2020, they were forced to give up because some farmers got upset.

The longer India continues to run the same political system that administered the collapse of the largest empire the world has ever known, the longer it will continue to sit in China's shadow.


… what your saying in this second response has validity. The way you previously characterized the sitwas 100% political with no depth.
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