Police Allow Dog to Die

[wrestler1ump]

http://www.caller.com/news/2008/aug/15/ ... ed-ticket/

Does someone know who these two police officers are so that we can make sure they are put to death?

[gdeangel]

I'm sorry but the cop got it right. It's a dog. You can't endanger the lives of other people on the highway. I'm sure if he let them keep driving to the vet, they'd have promised to drive the speed limit and not run any red lights, right? What about this headline: Couple kills mother of three rushing dog to vet. Not so noble, eh? How about this lead: Woman runs down toddler after being stopped for reckless driving; police officer suspended... not much better.

Could the cop have given them an escort to the vet? Maybe. Certainly he didn't have to, and it's one of those things where maybe they had the "we're entitled to go racing down the highway to save Fido" attitude and just pissed him off. Too damn bad.

Sure cops make mistakes involving animals. A while ago there was a story about a cop being called to get a snake out of a tree. It was a rural area. He shot into the tree. He missed, and the bullet hit a 12 year old kid who was fishing a mile away. Snake lived, kid died. I didn't see any web-rage about that case...

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/06/boy.killed.ap/index.html

[Fircoal]

Well that sucks of the police. Sure they shouldn't have been driving that fast, but once caught, they shouldn't have held them up for 20 minutes. I can understand pulling them over, but not holding them up for 20 minutes. I also can't understand this quote:

Hernandez said Stephens responded: "Chill out, it's just a dog, you can buy another one."

That's just unacceptable. A dog is part of a family, and to say that a new one with just be the equivalent is evil. They have feelings for this dog. Feelings can't be replaced easily. If someone killed one of his loved ones, would he just go out and by another one. You'd be upset, and a bit heartbroken, it's only natural. And besides the dog itself deserves a chance to be healed and saved.

[strike wolf]

Police should have escorted them to the vet, let them get the dog to the emergency room then if they still felt a ticket was necessary give it to them.

[gdeangel]

I know this is just speculation, but you can see it going down like this... "Could you please hurry up and just give me the ticket..." which is what you never want to tell a cop. The cost of a ticket may be nominal, but if you think of someone's going 95 driving recklessly, unless you run the NASCAR circuit, it's like waving around a loaded gun at innocent people on the highway. So what's does Mr. front line cop have to do to protect the roadway? Let them race off until they are out of sight? How will be Fido when his owners are in jail for manslaughter? Or just simply dead in a ditch. I have no sympathy. It's a dog. It's not a person. Sure its regrettable. There are probably rules about when a police escort is appropriate. Sick dog is one of those things that only sounds like an appropriate use of your state police when you come up against a person stupid enough, and with enough disregard for other humans, who wants to go racing like crazy to get their animal to a vet. Not a good use of a patrolman. Humane society, maybe. And what is the vet/humane society going to say... Fido has kidney failure. Make it easy on him and put him to sleep. Regrettable. That's the way it goes.

Honest question though - if your friend is really sick in the back of your car, maybe appendicitis or something pretty serious if you don't get there in time - would you hit 95 to get him to the hospital? I wouldn't even if it was my wife in labor - LOL. Let's keep the facts in perspective ... that's damn fast. Even for an 8-lane divided highway, that's fast to be weaving through traffic... clearly endangering lives. Anyone whose driving that fast deserves a beat down. And just like when you were six and got caught playing with matches in the garage, you got a talking to until you understood that it was wrong... I could see this exchange going back and forth for 20 minutes:

"Sir, you understand that you can't drive that fast."
"But my dog is sick. I'm taking him to the vet."
"Still, you can't drive that fast."
"OK. Can I go now."
"No."
"I won't do it again. Can I go now."
"No."
"I'm Sorry. Can I go now."
"No."
"Let's make a deal... I'll stay here, and let my wife go now."
"No. And your going to sit here until you 'get it' "

Thousands and thousands of innocent people killed by careless drivers every year. But let's just pretend that 95 MPH is not a big deal.

Enter liberal animal loving media with a heart string story... and Mr. and Mrs. Fido come away ready to sue the police instead of what they should be thinking, which is, boy, I learned my lesson and next time I won't play with matches in the garage.

[Grooveman2007]

The cop did the right thing. 95 mph is insanely fast, even the slightest bump in the road would send that car flying out of control. I don't think that "My dog was dying" is a very legitimate defense for multiple counts of vehicular homicide.

[wrestler1ump]

I know this is just speculation, but you can see it going down like this... "Could you please hurry up and just give me the ticket..." which is what you never want to tell a cop. The cost of a ticket may be nominal, but if you think of someone's going 95 driving recklessly, unless you run the NASCAR circuit, it's like waving around a loaded gun at innocent people on the highway. So what's does Mr. front line cop have to do to protect the roadway? Let them race off until they are out of sight? How will be Fido when his owners are in jail for manslaughter? Or just simply dead in a ditch. I have no sympathy. It's a dog. It's not a person. Sure its regrettable. There are probably rules about when a police escort is appropriate. Sick dog is one of those things that only sounds like an appropriate use of your state police when you come up against a person stupid enough, and with enough disregard for other humans, who wants to go racing like crazy to get their animal to a vet. Not a good use of a patrolman. Humane society, maybe. And what is the vet/humane society going to say... Fido has kidney failure. Make it easy on him and put him to sleep. Regrettable. That's the way it goes.

Honest question though - if your friend is really sick in the back of your car, maybe appendicitis or something pretty serious if you don't get there in time - would you hit 95 to get him to the hospital? I wouldn't even if it was my wife in labor - LOL. Let's keep the facts in perspective ... that's damn fast. Even for an 8-lane divided highway, that's fast to be weaving through traffic... clearly endangering lives. Anyone whose driving that fast deserves a beat down. And just like when you were six and got caught playing with matches in the garage, you got a talking to until you understood that it was wrong... I could see this exchange going back and forth for 20 minutes:

"Sir, you understand that you can't drive that fast."
"But my dog is sick. I'm taking him to the vet."
"Still, you can't drive that fast."
"OK. Can I go now."
"No."
"I won't do it again. Can I go now."
"No."
"I'm Sorry. Can I go now."
"No."
"Let's make a deal... I'll stay here, and let my wife go now."
"No. And your going to sit here until you 'get it' "

Thousands and thousands of innocent people killed by careless drivers every year. But let's just pretend that 95 MPH is not a big deal.

Enter liberal animal loving media with a heart string story... and Mr. and Mrs. Fido come away ready to sue the police instead of what they should be thinking, which is, boy, I learned my lesson and next time I won't play with matches in the garage.

The least the piggies could have done was to take a look at the dog, observe that it was dying, and call in another piggy to take it to the vet while the cops took care of the important business of filling out a speeding ticket.

I don't know how you can say that you wouldn't speed if your friend was going to die. 95 MPH is 153 KM per hour- fast, but still controllable. They said in a news interview that from watching the footage, there were not a lot of cars on the road. The cop telling them to get another dog was just disgusting.

[Hologram]

I'm gonna go with the last two people to speak on this one. Was the police officer a bit callous? Yeah. But at the same time, a dying dog, or even person, really, is not a legitimate reason to drive 95 mph. 10, maybe even 20 over the limit? Sure, depends on the case. Still dangerous, but people do it under normal circumstances anyway, so whatever.

[black elk speaks]

Police should have escorted them to the vet, let them get the dog to the emergency room then if they still felt a ticket was necessary give it to them.

agreed.

my dog of eleven years died in front of my kids last year. i had to bury him my self. it was the most difficult thing that i ever had to do. ever. he was my friend for 11 years. animal companions are not 'things.' they are loved ones. the people should not have been speeding like that, they put the dog at risk, but the officer should have escorted them to the vet and ticketed them there.

[gdeangel]

The least the piggies could have done was to take a look at the dog, observe that it was dying, and call in another piggy to take it to the vet while the cops took care of the important business of filling out a speeding ticket.

I don't know how you can say that you wouldn't speed if your friend was going to die. 95 MPH is 153 KM per hour- fast, but still controllable. They said in a news interview that from watching the footage, there were not a lot of cars on the road. The cop telling them to get another dog was just disgusting.

The latter part sounds like the type of spin you need to get a good frenzy whipped up around the story . 153 kph may not sound fast, but in the US where everyone else on the road is going 110 kph, it's dangerous... I've done 300 kpm but only on a complete straightaway in Europe where the general flow of traffic was already about 160kpm, and for God sake it was in a sport tuned Mercedes (not mine) and would never do 95 in, for example, a piece of shit Toyota on the crappy US roads with 60 MPH flow of traffic... especially if I were distracted and/or if someone I cared about was in the car with me. I didn't say I wouldn't speed, but this issue is the 95 mph part. Its such a uninteresting piece of raw data in the story, but really that number tells the whole story. If the hospital/vet is 10 miles away, the difference between doing 70mph and 95 mph is getting there in 8'30" vs. 6'30". Not worth risking innocent lives over. Rear ended at a 35 mph speed difference, and the other guy is going to roll. It's grossly irresponsible. Yes, Fido's owners love him. They are responsible for his welfare. But they are also responsible for not playing dice with other people's lives, even if they don't personally know and love those people. Everybody is somebody's son or daughter/mother, father, etc... Tell them at the funeral Fido had to get to the vet really, really fast...

The "get another dog part" is uncaring, but it's not the cops job to care about their dog. Police need to be civil (and they fall short of that mark in worse ways than this quote enough that I won't pretend to be happy with the system), but they don't need to prance around handing out daisies like little-miss-sensitive. Not their role. That's the way it is. That's the way it should be. It would be seriously sending the wrong message in a case like this.

[black elk speaks]

I'm gonna go with the last two people to speak on this one. Was the police officer a bit callous? Yeah. But at the same time, a dying dog, or even person, really, is not a legitimate reason to drive 95 mph. 10, maybe even 20 over the limit? Sure, depends on the case. Still dangerous, but people do it under normal circumstances anyway, so whatever.

not even close. a dying person would have had an ambulance called in, if not at the point of origin, then at the point that the cop pulled over the speeder. a ticket and a police escort would have been the appropriate thing here.

[TheProwler]

Couple of things...

They were driving after midnight...for all we know, they were the only car in sight on the entire road...there is no mention of heavy traffic as someone implied.

gdeangel thinks going 43 kph above the flow of traffic (and we don't even know that there was any traffic in this case) is dangerous, yet he boasts of driving 140 kph above the flow of traffic. You were lucky someone didn't do a shoulder check, see you way the heck back there, and then do a lane change into your lane. Then you may have found out the brakes on the "sport tuned Mercedes" weren't quite as good as you imagined.

That cop's attitude is what makes some people hate cops. Fuckin' pig.

People have different ideas and beliefs about the value of dogs, and other species of animals for that matter. Some say "It's just a dog." and others value dogs and other animals very much. But in this case, you have to understand that the value of the dog to these people was very high. If you are a person that doesn't feel the same way about dogs, you may need to imagine that it was a family member that was sick if you want to empathize with the couple. If you still say "Oh no, I still wouldn't drive 95 to get them to emergency care." then I'd suggest that you buy a better car and/or learn to drive better. 95 mph is not that fast.

Why are people here so eager to criticize the actions of the couple who were trying to save their dog? It is quite possible that traffic was very light and that they were driving a vehicle that could easily handle the speed that they were driving. Why jump to such negative conclusions?

[Beastly]

I would speed if my dog was dying!

[Visaoni]

I think the real point of the story is a very different one than people seem to think. Don't get me wrong, I really think the cop should have done something different. The article seemed to imply the dog was choking, it wouldn't have been difficult for the officer to see the dog was in serious trouble. I doubt anybody higher up is going to get mad at him let them turn themselves in later, or gives the ticket to one person while the other drives on, or if he just stays behind them to make sure they don't speed, or whatever. It would go unnoticed, and the family would be happy, the dog would be okay, and the cop could feel good that he helped a loved family animal survive. Nobody is a fan of seeing a family upset because a family pet died. Of course, depending on traffic conditions 95mph could have been extremely dangerous, but that just means the cop needed to find another way to ensure they kept to the speed limit (such as follow them to the vet and give them the ticket there).

Anyway, the point is just that cops are people too. I'm generalizing a bit, but from what I've seen, and logically it makes sense, cops seem to view themselves as parents. Unhappy parents who are tired of dealing with unruly children for as long as they have been a police officer. This is why acting impatient, or really doing much besides sitting there and only talking to answer their questions, makes them upset. They're tired of hearing excuses, and just want you to learn your damned lesson and let them be. I wouldn't be surprised if the conversation went something like gdangel imagined, and that is exactly the sort of thing that is going to get a tired parent to put their foot down despite any excuse.

Did he do the right thing? Hell no. He needed to pull them over, and he did. From there, he should have taken an appropriate action to ensure they maintained a safe speed while trying to ensure the dog survived. All because he is probably just tired of hearing excuses, and put his foot down like an angry, tired parent. The point? Something needs to change. We don't need cops who are tired of dealing with us. I'm sure we've all met the "cool cop" who seems nice enough and will joke around and whatnot, but still does his job well. Sometimes they are new to the position and just haven't gotten tired of hearing it yet, or sometimes they are older guys who just don't let it get to them somehow. Perhaps courses need to be taught to teach cops the skills they need to, from their point of view, deal with unruly children day in and day out. I don't think a happier cop would hurt anybody.

[black elk speaks]

Visaoni is convinced that if the outcome of any situation involving law enforcement is undesirable to the citizen, then the authorities have to 'find another way.' in this case, i tend to agree. traveling at 95 miles per hour is a violation of the speed limit. true. the cop was in his authority to pull the car over and issue a ticket. cops really do take their time when issuing tickets. i think its part of the point that they make. if you speed, you are in a hurry, therefore i am going to detain you and make you really late to wherever it is that you are going.

maybe he could have written the ticket more quickly, or escorted the cat to the vet. sure. but the people were speeding. a lot. and whether there is heavy traffic or not, a winding mountain road or a straight road through the desert, an obstacle in the road at 95 miles per hour can cause you to fatally crash.

but where the cop crossed the line was when he decided (or was incapable of) recognizing the reason for the speeding and debasing it in such a cold and careless way. "its just a dog, you can buy another one..." could also be heard as "its just a baby, you can just have another one" to some people. pets are literally a part of a family.

the cop is a bad example of how one should "protect and serve" in my opinion. but don't let one bad apple ruin the whole bunch. i know a lot of cops that would say the same thing.

[Backglass]

The thread title should be "Police save families life". Anyone going 95 should be pulled over...period. It's reckless.

Now I am a dog lover, but people are getting too emotionally attached here. Like it or not, the officer did the right thing.

Substitute "Pet Dog" for "Pet Hamster" and suddenly it doesn't seem like such an emergency.

But that's different, isn't it.

[Anarkistsdream]

Sure cops make mistakes involving animals. A while ago there was a story about a cop being called to get a snake out of a tree. It was a rural area. He shot into the tree. He missed, and the bullet hit a 12 year old kid who was fishing a mile away. Snake lived, kid died. I didn't see any web-rage about that case...

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/08/06/boy.killed.ap/index.html

I am from Oklahoma and this happened recently... The story you posted by CNN has several inaccuracies in it, but the point is the same.

[TheProwler]

Cops have to deal with excuses and arguments from losers and assholes all the time. Fine, that is what they signed-up for. They are supposed to deal with each situation separately and go in with a neutral attitude. That's what they get paid for. They should take the bad with the good. That asshole did not do that.

You guys that think driving 95 mph without traffic is dangerous must not be very good drivers or must have crappy cars. Most modern cars can safely drive 95 mph on relatively straight roads.

Backglass, you call yourself a dog lover. How about you substitute "Pet Dog" for "Dying Child" and tell me if you would speed. If they answer is "Yes" then you are not really a dog lover. If the answer is "No" then you are just kinda strange....paranoid about speeding or way too worried about your own safety. I suspect that you really aren't a dog lover.

I work part time and volunteer at my local Humane Society. There, I see a lot of disturbing situations where people treat animals differently than I do. There are a lot of people who say "I am a dog lover" but they are not. They do selfish things that you would not do to someone or something that you love.

A true dog lover would treat the situation of their dog in distress the same way most people would treat the situation of their child in distress. For most people, you need to imagine it was not a dog, but a child, if you want to empathize with the people in the car.

Most of you are probably thinking "But it's just a dog!?!" Well, I honestly would say back to you "But it's just a kid!?!" We are such a self-centered, egotistical species.

[Grooveman2007]

The bottom line in this story is what is more important, the life of a dog, or the life of a human?
I-35 outside San Antonio is a terrible section of road in dire need of resurfacing (as of April) and midnight is not very late in a big city, 3 AM is one thing but at midnight people are just heading home. Driving 95 mph on a somewhat crowded highway that has a surface comprable to the moon is just fucking stupid. The cop did the right thing, he prevented the man and his girlfriend from hurting themselves and others.

When my dog died a few years ago I was sad for about a month, then I got another dog and a week later that new dog was "my dog" and I liked it as much as I liked my first one. Yeah, I was upset about the death of my dog, I liked that dog, but I am not emotionally scarred because of it. I got over it. The people driving recklessly will get over it. However, if they were to kill a son or husband or mother while trying to save the life of a poodle...

I can only imagine they emotional damage they would cause to the family.

Face it you guys, a person in infinatly more important than a dog.

[TheProwler]

The bottom line in this story is what is more important, the life of a dog, or the life of a human?
I-35 outside San Antonio is a terrible section of road in dire need of resurfacing (as of April) and midnight is not very late in a big city, 3 AM is one thing but at midnight people are just heading home. Driving 95 mph on a somewhat crowded highway that has a surface comprable to the moon is just fucking stupid. The cop did the right thing, he prevented the man and his girlfriend from hurting themselves and others.

When my dog died a few years ago I was sad for about a month, then I got another dog and a week later that new dog was "my dog" and I liked it as much as I liked my first one. Yeah, I was upset about the death of my dog, I liked that dog, but I am not emotionally scarred because of it. I got over it. The people driving recklessly will get over it. However, if they were to kill a son or husband or mother while trying to save the life of a poodle...

I can only imagine they emotional damage they would cause to the family.

Face it you guys, a person in infinatly more important than a dog.

Exactly what I mean by self-centered and egotistical. We humans are the ones destroying the Earth. We humans are the devious psychopaths and sociopaths that commit unspeakable crimes. I do not like every human. I do not like every dog. But I like a higher percentage of dogs than I do humans. My dogs would risk their lives to save me if I were in trouble. I would do the same for them.

And why so much drama about someone going 95 mph? Big deal. You can't live in a bubble. You know, if you go for a walk, you might get hit by a bus. So do you never go for a walk? A big part of life is taking calculated risks. Driving 95 mph is not necessarily dangerous. Period.

Most car accidents involve shitty drivers and distracted drivers, not speeders who are concentrating on what they are doing.

Have you ever gone for a drive just for fun? Roll down the windows and enjoy a cruise? Well, you were risking people's lives by doing that - some kid chasing a ball into the street could have been killed because you wanted to enjoy a pleasure ride. Feeling guilty? You shouldn't. Calculated risk.

Just for everyone here, I am going to drive 100+ mph today. Will I put people's lives at risk? Sure, to some degree. But way less than the dipshit driving his oversized SUV 60 mph while chatting on his cell phone and watching his GPS for the next cutoff. Calculated risk.

I seriously think you must be bad drivers if you think 95 mph is that unsafe.

[darvlay]

1. Was the Police Officer also a Veterinarian? Was he able to tell the dog was dying just be looking at it? Should he assume that the "perps" are telling the truth or should he assume nothing?

2. "Gonzalez said Stephens then talked with two other officers on the scene and didn't allow him to leave for 20 minutes. Missy was dead by then, Gonzalez said." How far away was the animal hospital? Is it reasonable to blame the Police Officer for the death of the dog if it was, in fact, too late?

3. If the passenger were a pregnant women obviously in labour, would the result have been the same?

[darvlay]

Exactly what I mean by self-centered and egotistical. We humans are the ones destroying the Earth. We humans are the devious psychopaths and sociopaths that commit unspeakable crimes. I do not like every human. I do not like every dog. But I like a higher percentage of dogs than I do humans. My dogs would risk their lives to save me if I were in trouble. I would do the same for them.

Wow, good for you and your dog.

Question: What other animals should we allow this certain leniency/goodwill towards with respect to highway traffic laws? A dying cat? How about a ferret? A hamster?

[darvlay]

1. Was the Police Officer also a Veterinarian? Was he able to tell the dog was dying just be looking at it? Should he assume that the "perps" are telling the truth or should he assume nothing?

2. "Gonzalez said Stephens then talked with two other officers on the scene and didn't allow him to leave for 20 minutes. Missy was dead by then, Gonzalez said." How far away was the animal hospital? Is it reasonable to blame the Police Officer for the death of the dog if it was, in fact, too late?

3. If the passenger were a pregnant women obviously in labour, would the result have been the same?

4. Is there a legal limit for how long an officer can "hold" a reckless driver/speeder on the side of the road before either giving them a ticket or letting them go? If there is no legal limit, is there a reasonable limit? Is it standard for officers to let a driver "time out" when they are pulled over?

[Juan_Bottom]

The problem here is that the police officer elected to let the dog die. He had a choice, and it is his duty to be responsible. Two wrongs don't make a right. In my book, it's murder.

If it were a person, that would be involuntary manslaughter.

And why so much drama about someone going 95 mph? Big deal. You can't live in a bubble. You know, if you go for a walk, you might get hit by a bus. So do you never go for a walk? A big part of life is taking calculated risks. Driving 95 mph is not necessarily dangerous. Period.

Most car accidents involve shitty drivers and distracted drivers, not speeders who are concentrating on what they are doing.

Have you ever gone for a drive just for fun? Roll down the windows and enjoy a cruise? Well, you were risking people's lives by doing that - some kid chasing a ball into the street could have been killed because you wanted to enjoy a pleasure ride. Feeling guilty? You shouldn't. Calculated risk

Somehow, I find myself agreeing with theprowler.
But that isn't to say that I don't understand that police have to deal daily with pricks who only think of themselves on the road. But killing a dog is hardly justifyable.

[darvlay]

The problem here is that the police officer elected to let the dog die. He had a choice, and it is his duty to be responsible. Two wrongs don't make a right. In my book, it's murder.

If it were a person, that would be involuntary manslaughter.

But it wasn't a person, it was an animal. What other animals/pets should be awarded this type of sympathy by police officers? Can you provide a list?