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black elk speaks, Share Your Views

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Re: black elk speaks, Share Your Views

Postby oaktown on Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:03 am

this is such an inane conversation that something at least somewhat thoughtful needs to be said. For starters, the Nazis weren't socialists. Yes, the word socialist appears in their name, but the word "democratic" appears in the Democratic People's Republic of Korea, but you aren't going find one person on this planet that believes that North Korea is a democratic nation. Likewise, there was nothing socialist about Hitler's Germany: the people never controlled the means of production, democracy was frowned upon and elections ignored, trade unions were abolished, and wages for workers fell while their employers got rich. Hitler also had a deep mistrust of socialists because so many were Jews, most notably Marx himself; and while Leon Trotsky (born Lev Bronshtein) was leading the 1918 socialist revolution in Russia, German Jews helped lead an unsuccessful socialist revolution in Germany.

As for your wikipedia quote above, Black Elk, note that it says that the Nazis provided shelter and food to "homeless recruits to the SA." Vote for me, work for me, march with me and fight for me, and you'll get some food. That was how they built the army that they used to scare the rest of the country into submission.

If by saying that the Nazis were socialist you are trying to portray Hitler as an example of a leftist dictator, you should consider who his biggest friends were - Mussolini & Franco - and who his sworn enemies were - the Communist Russians and the socialist-led French.

I'm not trying to get into this argument, nor am I implying that the Nazis had much in common with the American 'right,' which should be viewed as remarkably centrist when compared to historical examples. Consider this a friendly educational message.
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Re: black elk speaks, Share Your Views

Postby black elk speaks on Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:33 am

you are blind to the fact that socialism is used as a vehicle, not a destination. The Nazi party may have never thought that it was destined for such vile things and its intentions were probably genuine early on, but once Hitler was in control, the power and authority that he accumulated was too intoxicating, and it fueled his hatred for his enemies, even ones that were once his former colleges. It was socialism, that was later over run with fascism and collectivism. I know you guys think you love it, but it has such evil potential.
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Re: black elk speaks, Share Your Views

Postby Iliad on Tue Nov 11, 2008 3:57 am

black elk speaks wrote:
Iliad wrote:
black elk speaks wrote:Come on, you don't think that the Nazi movement grew out of the same protectionist mindset that is at the heart of Socialism? Of course they didn't want Communism. They still wanted people to "own" property. They just didn't want people to have total freedom over the use of that which they owned. it was the collectivism behind the Nazi movement that brought about fascism and racism.

Please, educate yourself.


But I am... Doesn't this sound socialist to you?

Wikipedia wrote:In the early 1930s amid high unemployment and poverty in Germany, the Nazis emphasized their socialist policies by providing shelter and food to unemployed or homeless recruits to the SA.


It almost sounds like what we are going to be going through when the big three tank.

Nice selective reading. Oaktown has already countered that quote. Let's see some other quotes from that website.
Wikipedia wrote:Unlike Drexler and other party members, Hitler was less interested in the "socialist" aspect of "national socialism"

he disliked the mass working class of the big cities, and had no sympathy with the notions of attacking private property or the business class (which some early Nazis espoused).[citation needed] For Hitler the twin goals of the party were always German nationalist expansionism and anti-Semitism.

the Nazi Party grew significantly, ... and partly because there was a backlash against socialist and liberal politics in Bavaria as Germany's economic problems deepened and the weakness of the Weimar regime became apparent

The Fascists like the Nazis, promoted a national rebirth of their country; opposed communism and liberalism; appealed to the working-class; opposed the Treaty of Versailles; and advocated the territorial expansion of their country.

Hitler was the sole leader of the party and he alone decided its policies and strategy. Hitler at this time saw the party as a revolutionary organization, whose aim was the violent overthrow of the Weimar Republic, which he saw as controlled by the socialists, Jews and the "November criminals" who had betrayed the German soldiers in 1918.

The Enabling Act, termed for four years, gave the government the power to enact laws without parliamentary approval, to enact foreign treaties abroad and even to make changes to the Constitution. The Nazis did not keep their promises to their political allies, banning all other parties just as they had banned the communists and socialists.

The SA under Röhm's leadership soon became a major problem for the party. Many of the 700,000 members of this well-armed working-class militia took the "socialist" element of "national socialism" seriously,


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Re: black elk speaks, Share Your Views

Postby heavycola on Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:14 am

interesting. how will the wise black elk reconcile his quoting from wikipedia with his subsequent pwnage from the same source?
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Re: black elk speaks, Share Your Views

Postby Minister Masket on Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:41 am

Enough with the boring political questions.
And now for something completely different...

What is the circumference of a moose?
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Re: black elk speaks, Share Your Views

Postby Skittles! on Tue Nov 11, 2008 4:51 am

Minister Masket wrote:Enough with the boring political questions.
And now for something completely different...

What is the circumference of a moose?

My cock.
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Re: black elk speaks, Share Your Views

Postby PLAYER57832 on Tue Nov 11, 2008 12:22 pm

black elk speaks wrote:
pimpdave wrote:Mr. lk speaks,

Please share your views.

Fascism vs. Socialism: Since They Are the Same Thing According To You, Why Haven't You Invented a New, Third Word to Describe It?


Give it up dave, go look it up. Fascism evolved from socialism in pre wwII Germany. I'm sorry you don't believe it, but its true. You could look it up and tell my why I am wrong about it.

You are wrong (or only partially correct, which in this case is the same), but this is not the thread for that debate, I suppose.
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Re: black elk speaks, Share Your Views

Postby Minister Masket on Tue Nov 11, 2008 6:08 pm

Skittles! wrote:
Minister Masket wrote:Enough with the boring political questions.
And now for something completely different...

What is the circumference of a moose?

My cock.

Sorry, is this the "Ask Skittles Thread So That He May Answer With Lewd Comment About Genitalia"?

Nope, didn't think so.
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Re: black elk speaks, Share Your Views

Postby Dancing Mustard on Wed Nov 12, 2008 4:45 am

That thread should exist.
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Re: black elk speaks, Share Your Views

Postby pimpdave on Wed Nov 12, 2008 12:45 pm

Mr. lk speaks,

Please share your views.

Where You Have Gone: Is There Not Serious Business To Attend To Such As the Defense of Democracy From Nefarious Threats to Democracy Like Democrats and Taxes?
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Re: black elk speaks, Share Your Views

Postby black elk speaks on Wed Nov 12, 2008 5:54 pm

pimpdave wrote:Mr. lk speaks,

Please share your views.

Where You Have Gone: Is There Not Serious Business To Attend To Such As the Defense of Democracy From Nefarious Threats to Democracy Like Democrats and Taxes?


Dear Mr. Dave.

Make no mistake. I dislike you immensely. For one that got so irately bent out of shape when people made a mockery of your childish display during the Sept 11 thread, you seem to be quite comfortable with that very same crowd as they make foolish attempts at promoting socialism. How good for you to not be on the receiving end of it this time, as you stand at the back of the crowd with your brown nose, drooling for the affection of your favorite flamers. Perhaps, if you continue to antagonize enough to get a rise out of the group, they may forgive you the next time you present something worthy of elated ridicule. If memory serves, the last one was quite hilarious.

You know that I work for a living and do not spend my daytime hours (save the weekends) hammering away like a masturbating monkey at my keyboard, making lame attempts at being witty. I am too busy, it would seem, earning a living for myself, my family and deadbeat unemployed know nothings like yourself.
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Re: black elk speaks, Share Your Views

Postby Minister Masket on Thu Nov 13, 2008 5:51 pm

So you replied to the guy you dislike, but not to my random query?
Madness.
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Re: black elk speaks, Share Your Views

Postby mpjh on Thu Nov 13, 2008 6:10 pm

black elk speaks wrote:
pimpdave wrote:Mr. lk speaks,

Please share your views.

Where You Have Gone: Is There Not Serious Business To Attend To Such As the Defense of Democracy From Nefarious Threats to Democracy Like Democrats and Taxes?


Dear Mr. Dave.

Make no mistake. I dislike you immensely. For one that got so irately bent out of shape when people made a mockery of your childish display during the Sept 11 thread, you seem to be quite comfortable with that very same crowd as they make foolish attempts at promoting socialism. How good for you to not be on the receiving end of it this time, as you stand at the back of the crowd with your brown nose, drooling for the affection of your favorite flamers. Perhaps, if you continue to antagonize enough to get a rise out of the group, they may forgive you the next time you present something worthy of elated ridicule. If memory serves, the last one was quite hilarious.

You know that I work for a living and do not spend my daytime hours (save the weekends) hammering away like a masturbating monkey at my keyboard, making lame attempts at being witty. I am too busy, it would seem, earning a living for myself, my family and deadbeat unemployed know nothings like yourself.


No, we don't know that you work for a living. For all we know you are a 16 year old living off his dad's income and fawning for a copy of "Black Elk Speaks" dreaming of being a true Native American and not the white kid that you are.
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Re: black elk speaks, Share Your Views

Postby black elk speaks on Thu Nov 13, 2008 9:17 pm

Skittles! wrote:
Minister Masket wrote:Enough with the boring political questions.
And now for something completely different...

What is the circumference of a moose?

My cock.


He asked about the circumference of a Moose, not a Moose's rectum.
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Re: black elk speaks, Share Your Views

Postby jonesthecurl on Fri Nov 14, 2008 12:14 am

BES, I don't often admire ya, but that one has to win a prize. =D> =D>
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