The winner takes a little bit [Abandoned]

by **OliverFA** on Tue May 05, 2009 3:52 pm

I have sent this debate to all tournament players

Hi all,

I am sending this PM through BCC to the 256 players who finally started the tournament.

Some players have expressed their concerns about no spoil games taking too long. I am opened to suggestions to improve the tournament, but I don't want to make any change without knowing everybody's opinion. I know what players who have complained think, but I don't know what players who have not complained think.

So I am opening a public debate. If you wish to have your say in favour or against making next no spoil games also terminator games, you are invited to do it in the tournament thread. Once the debate is finished, we will have a vote

Thanks everybody for participating in the tournament.

Once we have the debate and we have voted, I will do what majority says. I want the tournament to be as enjoyable as possible.

by **OliverFA** on Tue May 05, 2009 4:01 pm

Ok, that is my opinion about keeping "No spoil - Standard" games like they are instead of changing then to "No spoil - Terminator".

I agree that in normal games there is no motivation to kill the other players. Only the winner gets the points. So, why waste armies killing a weak player and do a favour to all the others?

But in this tournament there is a motivation to kill a weak player. The motivation is that all surviving players get an additional point. Remember, the 2nd player gets as many points as the 1st player. 2nd player gets 6 points and 1st player gets 7 points.

Even more, a player who knows he cannot win, could try to kill an even weaker player to at least get a few more points.

So... there is a motivation in terms of tournament points. And that's why I will vote for it to stay like it is.

by **Rocketry** on Tue May 05, 2009 4:25 pm

In answer to your PM - I vote to keep the NO Spoils option please!

Rocket.

by **OliverFA** on Tue May 05, 2009 4:30 pm

Rocketry wrote:In answer to your PM - I vote to keep the NO Spoils option please!

Rocket.

The no spoils option is staying anyway. One of the points of the tournament is allowing each player to choose his own "ideal" map and to force the other 7 players in the group to play that game, even if (or specially if) that's not the combination they are best at.

Some players prefer no spoil games, and it would be unfair not to allow them to choose it. I am just considering making them terminator to give a small additional incentive to kill players and don't stalemate games.

However, as I said a couple of messages above, I think there is an incentive in terms of tournament points, because not only the first players gets points. All the other players (except the 8th) also get points.

by **Rocketry** on Tue May 05, 2009 4:36 pm

OliverFA wrote:
Rocketry wrote:In answer to your PM - I vote to keep the NO Spoils option please!

Rocket.

The no spoils option is staying anyway. One of the points of the tournament is allowing each player to choose his own "ideal" map and to force the other 7 players in the group to play that game, even if (or specially if) that's not the combination they are best at.

Some players prefer no spoil games, and it would be unfair not to allow them to choose it. I am just considering making them terminator to give a small additional incentive to kill players and don't stalemate games.

However, as I said a couple of messages above, I think there is an incentive in terms of tournament points, because not only the first players gets points. All the other players (except the 8th) also get points.

Well I voted against terminator becuase playing dead dosen't work in terminator games.

Rocket.

by **scorpion86** on Tue May 05, 2009 4:42 pm

we chose settings that play to our strengths.those of us that chose the standard, no spoils combination did so for this reason.

by **ubersky** on Tue May 05, 2009 4:42 pm

I'm not sure how Terminator would really speed up the game, so no. It's a No Spoils game, and that means they are usually longer.

by **OliverFA** on Tue May 05, 2009 4:44 pm

Thanks for sharing your opinions with us. Rocket.

About the tournament speed:
Now that I finally managed to start games in all 32 groups, I will create games 2 to 4 in each group. This will allow each player the possibility (but not the obligation) to join those additional games, and play up to 4 simultaneous games.

Remember, freemium players are only supposed to play one game at a time. If they play more than one is because they choose to do so.

Also, once we have all 128 players classified (which can happen before all games are finished) we can start the round 2.

by **OliverFA** on Tue May 05, 2009 4:46 pm

scorpion86 wrote:we chose settings that play to our strengths.those of us that chose the standard, no spoils combination did so for this reason.

That's a very valid point. Should we change escalating games to flat rate because they take too few turns?

by **blacknight_13** on Tue May 05, 2009 5:05 pm

i vote YES to change to terminator mode 8-)

even if a player doesn't pass to the next phase he should have the chance to win some points...that's my opinion

by **Jade Empire** on Tue May 05, 2009 5:29 pm

I personally love no cards games, but i'm surprised they're thrown into the mix with other styles in this tournament due to their often extremely long-enduring nature. I think the subtle added motivation provided by the 'Terminator' style is appropriate in avoiding the potential month/year long delays between rounds.

by **ppgangster** on Tue May 05, 2009 5:46 pm

Jade Empire wrote: I think the subtle added motivation provided by the 'Terminator' style is appropriate in avoiding the potential month/year long delays between rounds.

This is also my opinion, in all respect, that this Game 4742585 7 rounds, 8 players (like all of yours I suppose) and 10 attacks TOTAL... this makes for a long wait... poor Freemium players...

by **murphy16** on Tue May 05, 2009 5:49 pm

Leave it how it is, tourney is in effect, if they had concerns they shouldn't have joined. But that's how I feel about it.

NOW QUIT COMPLAINING!

by **OliverFA** on Tue May 05, 2009 5:53 pm

murphy16 wrote:Leave it how it is, tourney is in effect, if they had concerns they shouldn't have joined. But that's how I feel about it.

NOW QUIT COMPLAINING!

That's an interesting opinion. In fact, I remember that some players did not join because they disliked the idea of having no spoils games.

by **OliverFA** on Tue May 05, 2009 5:57 pm

By the way, I understand by your complainings that tournament points are not enough motivation for you? Reading such complains looks like the only valid position is the bieng the 1st player

by **ppgangster** on Tue May 05, 2009 6:05 pm

I don't mind the speed too much, it gives you time to think and see what other players do in reaction to your subtle moves... it is slow, but interesting, and you are right about the settings of the tournament, they were there from the beginning and if we aren't happy, we can always bail out :shock:

or quit

...

by **OliverFA** on Tue May 05, 2009 6:18 pm

ppgangster wrote:I don't mind the speed too much, it gives you time to think and see what other players do in reaction to your subtle moves... it is slow, but interesting, and you are right about the settings of the tournament, they were there from the beginning and if we aren't happy, we can always bail out or quit ...

I do understand that, even if there is no hurry to finish the tournament, it would be nice to speed it up a little bit. That's is why I am going to create the additional games in each group so everybody can join if they wish. I was planning to do it, but had a hard time finding replacements for the last groups. Now that all games have started I will do it soon.

Also, a second action that I plan to implement to speed up tournament is to begin the second round as soon as we have all 128 players qualified (by their score). This means that we won't need to wait for some specially long game before continuing.

by **Hopscotcher** on Tue May 05, 2009 7:31 pm

I've always thought Flat rate games took FAR LOOOOOOONGGGEEEERRRRRRRRR than no spoil games. Just sayin'

by **SirSebstar** on Wed May 06, 2009 9:00 am

I hugely prefer flat rate over no spoils, but if there are no spoils, terminator will make an incentive to finish players off. This will speed up games.

by **OliverFA** on Wed May 06, 2009 4:12 pm

While I wait to get your feedback. I have updated the stats (on first page)

by **brendan man** on Wed May 06, 2009 6:12 pm

i honestly do not mind long games. It's not like they're going to last forever.

by **conquerAce** on Wed May 06, 2009 11:06 pm

Terminator will not add the incentive to make the game end sooner. What I have introduced and what i have seen in other tournaments is a round limit. If the game hits round 35 lets say the remaining players will receive the tournament points that the next player would have received.

For instance if there are three players left, typical stalemate scenario, and we are in round 35 the three players will receive 5 tournament points.

As many people have pointed out, the reason for asking for home settings is to play to strengths. all of the people that vote Yes could be stronger in Terminator games so the vote is not a fair way to make the changes to the settings mid stream

just my two cents

by **saraith** on Thu May 07, 2009 1:38 am

conquerAce wrote:
As many people have pointed out, the reason for asking for home settings is to play to strengths. all of the people that vote Yes could be stronger in Terminator games so the vote is not a fair way to make the changes to the settings mid stream

just my two cents

I'll add my own pennies to that.

by **SirSebstar** on Thu May 07, 2009 11:25 am

Round 1 - Group 32 - Game 1

points
7 SirSebstar 7 points (WINS)
6 JMRL
5 auggiemaster
4 btown80
3 growler
2 dtellis
1 PLAYER57832

all players were eliminated by me.ps in the first post it was not mentioned where to report the game, therefor by pm and post.
Happy Hunting.
SirSebstar