Time to Lock this thread

[mgconstruction]

I hope you are ashamed Highlander because you were trusted by a moderator in a discussion and misused the trust. This is low and you've shown what awful and childish person you can be.
I will not answer to the points because Night Strike will get my private answer as was asked in his PM.

What was low & Childish was trying to get these new rules through knowing that most of the players & TO's did not want them implemented.

What ever happened to the idea of creating sub forums in create/join tourney forum to separate single, dubs, trips, quads tourneys so the few people that complained about having to look through too many tourneys could find what they want easier? That idea isn't even part of the PM Night Strike sent out.

Basically all the ideas that were expressed in that thread by people who opposed changing tourney regulations and had a different idea are not even being considered. That in itself shows this whole thing stinks of low & childish behavior so they could change the way we run tourney's based off just a few peoples opinions.

MG

[Amilam]

I don't know, how about letting players actually decide on how they organize their games? Personally, I like playing with newbs because their tactics can be half hazard and you have to be ready for anything: most often suddenly dropping out of games. I can understand why others wouldn't feel the same. If someone started a tournament where the requirements were too high or too low for my ranking I'd just move along. You would hard pressed to find any succesful video game company that in effect bans the selective screening of high level players. Maybe I should go crash some of the Korean pro circuit Star Craft leagues because it's just not fair that I can't play.

If they want to do something to actually improve this site I'd suggest dealing with the rampant team game spamming that wastes all of our time trying to filter through.

[Mageplunka69]

i think its bullshit personally

[Incandenza]

It would be pretty befitting of the Team CC mentality for the tourney folks to institute a policy that makes it more difficult to start a tourney.

And creating a blanket ban on elite tournaments is, to be frank, retarded. I've played several 2000+/player tourneys, and they're always an amazingly good time. I would say that NS shouldn't be allowed to have such a controlling voice about a tourney format that he is generally ineligible for.

[JOHNNYROCKET24]

As one of the highest creator of tournies on this site and one of the longest all time active members, I am shocked that I did not get a PM asking for my insight. I am going to admit im not a big fan of Night Strike, in fact he is the only mod I dont care for, but not to ask for my opinions is basically saying he is just going to do what he wants to do anyway. I will leave it at that.

[JOHNNYROCKET24]

Wow to this PM to Tournament Organizers. I have a few questions & points here to make.

1 - As a Tournament Organizer myself, why did I not get a PM with this?
Was it because I already expressed my opinion in the following thread and it was not what they wanted to hear? viewtopic.php?f=89&t=105975

2 - Why is this being done secretly in PM's and with only select Tournament Organizers? Don't all organizers have a voice as well as the people who play in these tournaments?
Oh wait they did here voice their opinions here...viewtopic.php?f=89&t=105975
Were the opinions of premium paying customers not to someones liking?

3- The poll that Night Strike created here viewtopic.php?f=89&t=105975 shows the peoples opinions.
Was the results not what they wanted to hear? Do these peoples voices not count?

My view is plain & simple, not only is this PM quoted above trying change the way tournaments are run, but it' sneaky and vindictive against a particular player & Tournament organizer. Not only has this issue stopped me from starting anymore of my Tourney's, I will also no longer donate any premium prizes as well as not renew my own premium until this is resolved and we are all heard.

As I said in the other thread with poll (linked above), Tournament Organizers donate their time as well as premium prizes and if CC does not take our opinions seriously than I have no need to waste my time & money.

Furthermore this thread should be moved to Cheating & Abuse with Night Strikes name in the thread title because it is quite obvious he cannot do his job as Tournament Director objectively.

MG

im with you 100%.

[Moop]

What we really need to know is if there was any reasons for NS's decision to send this to some and not all tourny runners, why he decided not to have an open discussion about it and why those are the proposals?
Will it be easier to manage tournys? Will it make any difference?
I don't see why tournys need new rules, are they not working? Why change it? and why carry out those changes it in this way which is obviously causing more hassle. Cheers for letting us know about this HA but I would also like to hear NS's opinion. Perhaps there are higher reasons for this but unless we know what they are then people are just gonna get pissed off.

[RoOkAz]

It would be pretty befitting of the Team CC mentality for the tourney folks to institute a policy that makes it more difficult to start a tourney.

And creating a blanket ban on elite tournaments is, to be frank, retarded. I've played several 2000+/player tourneys, and they're always an amazingly good time. I would say that NS shouldn't be allowed to have such a controlling voice about a tourney format that he is generally ineligible for.

Like ive posted before and agree here with incandenza again... i want to add to this that about 85% of ALL the tournaments are for EVERY PLAYER...a small 15% is for 2k+ and upper ranks (single/dubs/trips/quads)

so how in their right mind can they ban that 15% from CC? didnt we play and fight for our ranks? dont we earn the right to compete with equal ranked players?

[lord voldemort]

I think people are mis interpreting the point restrictions.
+2000 only is still allowed. Its the higher ones that wont be any more. ie +2500

[superkeener]

[edited]

can't we all just get along....

[Nicho]

I just checked your medals and according to them you have never run a Tournament?????

[Dako]

I don't know what the buzz is about here, but HA, honestly, you did wrong here. Seriously.

You should not post it in public. There are other TO mods _and_ site admins - they will hear you out, it is their job.
You've broken their trust in you and this is a bad thing. Because they asked you about your opinion and asked you to keep it private - you just went with the banners across the site. Great job!

New rules:
* 1v1 bracket tournaments must have at least 32 players OR can have 16 players with at least best of 3 games every round
-- Agree with this. Most of the current tournaments qualify this already.

* Singles (3-8 player games) tournaments must have 16 players
* Doubles tournaments must have 16 teams (32 players)
* Triples & Quads tournaments must have 8 teams (24 or 32 players)
-- This is dumb if it means "exactly XX players" thou I doubt it does. Otherwise - it is normal.

* NO tournament may have a point restriction greater than 2000 points per player (or average of 2000 points per player in team tournaments)
-- This one is tricky, but it is ok also. 2000 is nearly the same as 2500 and I've never seen 2500+ tournaments so the rule changes basically nothing

* The tournament structure must cause the eventual winner to play 3 games (ex. 4 games with 4 players and then the 4 winners playing a final game would not be allowed)
-- This is understandable and easy to follow - you need to ear your victory not in one battle.

* At least 50% of the spots available must be for open/public sign-ups and not filled with special invitations.
-- It is ok as well, looks like no one made a fully private tournament yet.

* Each organizer can have only 3 tournaments recruiting players at once, and only 2 of those can be 32 players or less (has NO effect on ongoing tournaments or reserves threads)
-- Haha, this is a strike to HA and other TO's that like to host many tournaments at once. Well, I am with that as a consumer. Don't know about TOs.

* The Tournament Directors reserve the right to deny privileges for your tournament if the tournament is deemed to break site rules or has an unfair structure.
-- This one is normal as well. But is has bottlenecks as who are going to decide which tour is unfair and why. I see many complaints about this one.

* If you wish to run a tournament based upon an actual sports league or another well-designed format, and it requires you to have less than the minimum amount of participants or games, please contact the Create/Join Director to discuss a possible exemption.
-- Ok rule. Not bad not good. Never seen this happen.



So, overall, which rule do you despise so much? All of them seem to be adequate and fair. And as a proper TO you should not have taken it personally and you should have replied to NS by PM as he asked you for.

[talia-thomas]

I posted in the January forum and my opinion stays the same. This is like the health care debate in the United States. The government thinks its broken and is trying to change things as they see necessary while the majority of the country does not even rank it as a top 5 concern. Same thing here. Is there a majority of people who think the tourney system is broken and needs to be fixed. Is it on their top 5 list of things wrong at CC. I'd say no. It ain't broke, don't try and break it. This site will be a lot sorrier without HAs, JRs, Mgs' CP's, barts and others hard work at organizing, albeit basic, but very fun tournaments. Leave the system alone. It's a game people! Let's just play!

[amazzony]

* Singles (3-8 player games) tournaments must have 16 players
* Doubles tournaments must have 16 teams (32 players)
* Triples & Quads tournaments must have 8 teams (24 or 32 players)
-- This is dumb if it means "exactly XX players" thou I doubt it does. Otherwise - it is normal.

I'm sure it's meant as minimum requirements.

* If you wish to run a tournament based upon an actual sports league or another well-designed format, and it requires you to have less than the minimum amount of participants or games, please contact the Create/Join Director to discuss a possible exemption.
-- Ok rule. Not bad not good. Never seen this happen.

It has actually happened... once if I'm not mistaken and the exception was made to me: viewtopic.php?f=90&t=69459

[Gilligan]

1) Good job on obliterating our trust in you, HA.
2) Yes, Dako and ZZ, it is a mimimum. You can run with more than XX players.
3) None of these things were set in stone in the first place, as pretty much stated in the PM so there's no reason to be bitching about it now but talking civilized about what you like and don't like.
4) Moved to the proper forum.

[baddestbrute]

i fix cars for a living, and we have a motto,,,,, if it is not broken,,, do not fix it,,,,

[sensfan]

Although I believe that HA made a serious mistake by posting this out loud, I agree with the majority of CC'ers on this one. These rules are stupid. They make no sense at all. They will reduce the number of tournaments. They will prevent me from hosting small 16-player singles or 4 team quads tournaments. This time, Night Strike has gone too far. I want a vote. The people's of Conquer Club to have their say on these outrageous rules.

Sensfan

[Serbia]

As one of the highest creator of tournies on this site and one of the longest all time active members, I am shocked that I did not get a PM asking for my insight. I am going to admit im not a big fan of Night Strike, in fact he is the only mod I dont care for, but not to ask for my opinions is basically saying he is just going to do what he wants to do anyway. I will leave it at that.

You're an arrogant ass. I don't care what your opinion is. Doesn't matter that you've been here a long time, or you've created X number of tourneys. You're not entitled to shit, JR. No one is. Not HA, you, none of you bitching idiots. None of this seems unfair. I'm also a TO, and I'm cool with the restrictions. I like that an organizer can only have 2 tourney's actively seeking recruits, although I suggest a slight tweak there -

Instead of limiting the TOTAL number of tourneys an organizer can have actively seeking recruits to two, limit the number of LIKE tournaments by an organizer to two. To borrow from a few organizers - if I want to seek recruits in 2 Don't Blink tourneys, 2 ZZ Assassin tourneys, 2 Sports Leagues tourneys, and 2 triples tourneys, I think that is different than 8 quick 1v1 tourneys. I feel limiting LIKE tournaments gives other lesser known TO's a more equal shot at filling theirs, and perhaps becoming the next highly respected TO.

Point restrictions - 2000 seems fair to me, but I can understand the desire for 2500, in a way. Never having been that high, I don't fully understand, of course, but again, 2000 still seems balanced.

Anyway, I also think that Night Strike isn't alone in this, and isn't the one trying to ram things down your throats. It's not like this is his site, or he's got the authority to just do whatever he wants, so cut the man some slack, eh? And try to grow up some people.

Although I believe that HA made a serious mistake by posting this out loud, I agree with the majority of CC'ers on this one. These rules are stupid. They make no sense at all. They will reduce the number of tournaments. They will prevent me from hosting small 16-player singles or 4 team quads tournaments. This time, Night Strike has gone too far. I want a vote. The people's of Conquer Club to have their say on these outrageous rules.

Sensfan

Child, please. Outrageous? Go cry somewhere else. You people ALL are acting childish and immature. The rules do happen to make sense, as Dako laid out. Go take your knee-jerk reactions and play soccer, the lot of you are all probably super quick strikers.

[colton24]

This rule:

Each organizer can have only 3 tournaments recruiting players at once, and only 2 of those can be 32 players or less (has NO effect on ongoing tournaments or reserves threads)

Is BS.(As stated earlier) Didn't the tournament people of CC vote in the thread made by Bones and say that oraganisers should be able to create as many as they want? I guess democracy and public opinion doesn't count in Night Strike's dictatorship

[amazzony]

This rule:

Each organizer can have only 3 tournaments recruiting players at once, and only 2 of those can be 32 players or less (has NO effect on ongoing tournaments or reserves threads)

Is BS.(As stated earlier) Didn't the tournament people of CC vote in the thread made by Bones and say that oraganisers should be able to create as many as they want? I guess democracy and public opinion doesn't count in Night Strike's dictatorship

Do you know how the voting was done??? Hate mails against Bones were sent out to loyal minions who then ran to the topic and voted the option that was against Bones without even realising what the topic or poll or the answer they picked was about! The poll showed very little, a lot like this thread because HA sent out a hate messages and now everybody runs here to vent against Night Strike without even realising what all of this is about.

Like any other intelligent person, Night Strike saw how things went when Bones created his topic to discuss things so I guess he wanted some meaningful responses from experienced organisers but it's clear that the whole thing has been turned into a complete joke once again because as soon as some tournament rule changes are discussed then some men feel like somebody is attacking their manhood with a scalpel.

[keiths31]

Although I believe that HA made a serious mistake by posting this out loud, I agree with the majority of CC'ers on this one. These rules are stupid. They make no sense at all. They will reduce the number of tournaments. They will prevent me from hosting small 16-player singles or 4 team quads tournaments. This time, Night Strike has gone too far. I want a vote. The people's of Conquer Club to have their say on these outrageous rules.

Sensfan

Who is to say the majority off CC'ers agree? The majority of posters in this thread speaking out against these proposed (and remember everyone...they are proposed, still to be subjected to the feedback and discussion that was supposed to happen after all the responses were received) are only in this thread because they were alerted to it by a mass PM by the OP. If Night Strike wanted to, he could send a PM to every CC'er that ever played a tournament to get their feedback and I am sure the tone in this thread would be much different. And all the hate on for Night Strike is childish. He is one person from the collective TD's. He is the spokesperson. Easy to kill the messenger isn't it? Personal shots is such a low brow, ignorant and easy way to discuss an issue.

Tournaments have evolved over the years and should be held to a higher standard than they were originally. A tournament where you only have to play two games to win is ridiculous. Could you imagine if the Foundry hadn't set higher standards for new maps? Some of the maps that first came out of the Foundry wouldn't even come anywhere close to being released if they were made today and we wouldn't have some of the great maps we have today.

* 1v1 bracket tournaments must have at least 32 players OR can have 16 players with at least best of 3 games every round - Nothing wrong with this. Any 1vs1 bracket tournament should have to be at least a best 2 of 3 per round.
* Singles (3-8 player games) tournaments must have 16 players - Again...this is fine.
* Doubles tournaments must have 16 teams (32 players) - I am okay with this...with some exceptions ie sports leagues
* Triples & Quads tournaments must have 8 teams (24 or 32 players) - This makes sense. Can't understand the argument against this.
* NO tournament may have a point restriction greater than 2000 points per player (or average of 2000 points per player in team tournaments) - I don't run point restricted tournaments...nor do I join them. But the rule is intended to ensure that the 50% rule is enforced so I back it up.
* The tournament structure must cause the eventual winner to play 3 games (ex. 4 games with 4 players and then the 4 winners playing a final game would not be allowed) - Wow...people arguing about having to win at least three games to win a tournament. Seriously?
* At least 50% of the spots available must be for open/public sign-ups and not filled with special invitations. - This has been a rule for tournaments for as long as I have been a TO.
* Each organizer can have only 3 tournaments recruiting players at once, and only 2 of those can be 32 players or less (has NO effect on ongoing tournaments or reserves threads) - Again I see no problem with this. If the Create page is overwhelmed with two or three TO's it may scare off new TO's from trying to try. Maybe this could be done on a trial period to see if there are more tournaments made by new TO's. If not then the rule can be lifted.
* The Tournament Directors reserve the right to deny privileges for your tournament if the tournament is deemed to break site rules or has an unfair structure. - This has always been the case...so why the complaining now I dont understand.
* If you wish to run a tournament based upon an actual sports league or another well-designed format, and it requires you to have less than the minimum amount of participants or games, please contact the Create/Join Director to discuss a possible exemption. - I ran a CFL Season Doubles once...CFL only has eight teams. This would not fall into the new rules. If I wanted to run another and the TD's deemed it not tournament worthy...then no biggie.

*edit* If the medals for winning and creating tournaments had never been introduced, none of this childish bickering and name calling would be happening.

[lord voldemort]

Everyone needs to take a step away from their computers for a while...
Please remember
Not much is actually changing. The massive change is to the quick 16 player 1v1 tournaments. It is quite simple to chagne them to add an extra round hence 32 players or to even make them a best 2 out of 3. It is a minor detail.
Everything else is logical changes that if anyone has an issue you are simply being annoying for the sake of being annoying and I feel any change Cc makes you would be against.
The most important of these proposed chagnes is that any tournament that doesnt meet these guidelines can seek permission from a td to be allowed. Organise your tourny in a way that this works. And you wont have any problems.

As for HA nice work taking a pm sent in confidence into the public forums. It makes us mods be full of confidence wanting to include the members in changes. Its like the 1 kid talking in class. It will get everyone in trouble

[Moop]

Surely if Tournament medals were not introduced there would be less restrictions and more varied tournaments.
why can't there be a tournament for 2500's+? Why can't you have a private tournament? maybe there should be a limit to the amount of these tournaments if they did exist but why don't they exist?.
Are all the rules, and moaning about the rules, about medals?
Do you win a prize for having lots of medals? Can you trade them in for Wii points? or friends?
I better get making tourneys.

[saaimen]

I'd love to hear Night Strikes's opinion on all this. Not that I'm against him or expect him to 'lose' the debate, I'm quite neutral and awaiting here.
If there's another thread where the TD's opinions are voiced, will someone please post it here?

[kmhebert]

I don't think rules changes should be made over PM's.