should tournie privs be granted for clans ?

rebelman · Post by **rebelman** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:14 pm

Currently tournament privileges are not granted for in clan tournies or inter clan challenges - please post your views in favour / against / neutral on this thread so they can be communicated to the powers that be on this site.

I will post my own views in a later post.

hwhrhett · Post by **hwhrhett** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:15 pm

lack has already made it clear that no such change in this policy will happen until rivals comes out.

rebelman · Post by **rebelman** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:20 pm

hwhrhett wrote:lack has already made it clear that no such change in this policy will happen until rivals comes out.

wicked suggested on another thread we should open up this discussion on its own thread so lets do that, worst case scenario it will fall on deaf ears but I suspect if we as a community can put together a strong enough argument coupled with a strategy for implementation he may be open to changing his mind.

gimil · Post by **gimil** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:24 pm

rebelman wrote:
hwhrhett wrote:lack has already made it clear that no such change in this policy will happen until rivals comes out.
wicked suggested on another thread we should open up this discussion on its own thread so lets do that, worst case scenario it will fall on deaf ears but I suspect if we as a community can put together a strong enough argument coupled with a strategy for implementation he may be open to changing his mind.

As someone who visits the foundry often i would of thought that you would now its never that easy

rebelman · Post by **rebelman** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:55 pm

can a mod please fix my dodgy spelling in the poll as i can't

Optimus Prime · Post by **Optimus Prime** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 7:57 pm

rebelman wrote:can a mod please fix my dodgy spelling in the poll as i can't

It's taken care of.

dominationnation · Post by **dominationnation** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:30 pm

I feel it should be. I mean...its still a tourny. And its as public as a tourny with a score limit. Are we soon gonna say that we cant bar premiums, or low scores, or we wont get privs?

rebelman · Post by **rebelman** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:35 pm

dominationnation wrote:I feel it should be. I mean...its still a tourny. And its as public as a tourny with a score limit. Are we soon gonna say that we cant bar premiums, or low scores, or we wont get privs?

excellent point currently many tournaments are only open to players above or under a certain score. Likewise many are only open to premium players and some even overlap both - these tournies are clearly not open to all but currently they are allowed - this in effect shows a double standard as the primary reason given in the past is tournies should be open to all.

Gozar · Post by **Gozar** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:38 pm

rebelman wrote:
dominationnation wrote:I feel it should be. I mean...its still a tourny. And its as public as a tourny with a score limit. Are we soon gonna say that we cant bar premiums, or low scores, or we wont get privs?
excellent point currently many tournaments are only open to players above or under a certain score. Likewise many are only open to premium players and some even overlap both - these tournies are clearly not open to all but currently they are allowed - this in effect shows a double standard as the primary reason given in the past is tournies should be open to all.

I believe the argument here is that anyone has the ability to achieve a certain score, or buy premium with equal opportunity, where not everyone can join your clan.

amazzony · Post by **amazzony** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:44 pm

Gozar wrote:
rebelman wrote:
dominationnation wrote:I feel it should be. I mean...its still a tourny. And its as public as a tourny with a score limit. Are we soon gonna say that we cant bar premiums, or low scores, or we wont get privs?
excellent point currently many tournaments are only open to players above or under a certain score. Likewise many are only open to premium players and some even overlap both - these tournies are clearly not open to all but currently they are allowed - this in effect shows a double standard as the primary reason given in the past is tournies should be open to all.
I believe the argument here is that anyone has the ability to achieve a certain score, or buy premium with equal opportunity, where not everyone can join your clan.

I'm not for or against this topic as I haven't put much though in it and I almost don't care

but what I would like to say is that not all people have money to buy premium (yes, I actually believe it) and not all people are capable of getting high score.
Don't get me wrong here - I'm not saying that tournaments like that shouldn't be organised but I'm saying that not everybody are capable of getting to those tourneys... ever

rebelman · Post by **rebelman** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 8:49 pm

Gozar wrote:
I believe the argument here is that anyone has the ability to achieve a certain score, or buy premium with equal opportunity, where not everyone can join your clan.

actually several clans have open recruitment and we consider members of all ranks and do not discriminate between premium and freemium so technically everyone could join my clan or at least one of the clans with open membership

Gozar · Post by **Gozar** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:00 pm

rebelman wrote:
Gozar wrote:
I believe the argument here is that anyone has the ability to achieve a certain score, or buy premium with equal opportunity, where not everyone can join your clan.
actually several clans have open recruitment and we consider members of all ranks and do not discriminate between premium and freemium so technically everyone could join my clan or at least one of the clans with open membership

I would like to point out that I was not specifically referring to your clan, or any specific clan.
Nor is this my argument, nor to I necessarily support it, but I have seen it used as an explanation somewhere before, and thought I would bring it to this discussion.

rebelman · Post by **rebelman** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:06 pm

Gozar wrote:
I would like to point out that I was not specifically referring to your clan, or any specific clan.
Nor is this my argument, nor to I necessarily support it, but I have seen it used as an explanation somewhere before, and thought I would bring it to this discussion.

no bother point well made just wanted to make the counter argument

Genghis Khan CA · Post by **Genghis Khan CA** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:16 pm

I don't really understand why clan challenges have been denied tournament privileges for nearly a year! Seems simple to allow tournament games to be created as a stop-gap measure until rivals (finally) comes out, or even just create labelled private games. Trying to organise a clan challenge is impossibly difficult under the current rules.

On the one hand clans are being seemingly encouraged at the moment, with the ability to create usergroups being restored, but at the same time any clan momentum is being stifled as organising games is unneccessarily difficult!

Gozar · Post by **Gozar** » Wed Jan 16, 2008 9:24 pm

Genghis Khan CA wrote:I don't really understand why clan challenges have been denied tournament privileges for nearly a year! Seems simple to allow tournament games to be created as a stop-gap measure until rivals (finally) comes out, or even just create labelled private games. Trying to organise a clan challenge is impossibly difficult under the current rules.

On the one hand clans are being seemingly encouraged at the moment, with the ability to create usergroups being restored, but at the same time any clan momentum is being stifled as organising games is unneccessarily difficult!

Excellent point. The potential for abuse is here, but perhaps if one of the mods(Tournament Directors?) supervised this in some capacity?

rebelman · Post by **rebelman** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:02 am

At the moment there are some problems that cannot be solved within the current set up without privs one of cc's newest clans is freemium forces. All its members are freemium so if they want an in clan tournie they will need to set up public games that anyone can join.

The above problem also applies in clan challenges where both players are freemium.

Yes someone else could create the game then drop it but if your challenge involved 1 v 1 games this becomes impossible.

As any earlier post indicated if this site wants to support usergroups it needs to do something about this between now and when rivals comes out

Rivals will be hopefully a big help (see links below) but surely something can be done in the meantime as we actually have no guarentee that rivals will even be rolled out with the forums update and likewise we have no idea as to when this will happen.

rivals details from first version to newest release

phpBB3 Gold aka phpBB 3.0 was released worldwide on December 13 last (people will have probably seen it on other sites.

It has been indicated in the past these two will be rolled out on here. However at no stage has it been indicated these will be rolled out together (although im hoping this is the case)

This thread/debate becomes academic if this roll out is imminent but if it is not then the current rules need to be changed until it is.

wicked · Post by **wicked** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 9:27 am

Clans or no clans doesn't change the fact that freemies can't create private games period, and this shouldn't be used to get around one of the basic rules of this site. If freemies want private games for whatever reason, they can upgrade. Let's not confuse the issues here.

rebelman · Post by **rebelman** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 10:11 am

wicked wrote:Clans or no clans doesn't change the fact that freemies can't create private games period, and this shouldn't be used to get around one of the basic rules of this site. If freemies want private games for whatever reason, they can upgrade. Let's not confuse the issues here.

actually thats not correct wiki as there are tournaments organised by freemies thus enabling them to create private games for that tournie. The clans issue is very much linked to this as this is one of the big problems at the moment - unlike when they are running a tournie freemies involved in in-can tournies or challenges between clans can't create private games, so anyone can join them.

I fully support the rule that freemiums can't create private games - I'm not advocating a change in that, just a change for clans for in clan tournies and inter clan challenges. Freemies are one of the big problems at the moment as premium players can easily create private games - although it would be far neater and easier to manage if privs. could be used for this.

hulmey · Post by **hulmey** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:45 pm

Lacks problem with granting TP's for clan tournaments is due to him rightfully believing that freemiums will abuse this! They could abuse this by constantly having TP's and not neeeding to upgrade. Then all these freemiums would start making clans to get free priv's.

If you notice they also picked up on yorkie's abuse (in another thread) just when he turned freemium. So they are obviuosly watchinig this quite closely!!

I agree with lack on this one though. But why not grant tournament priv's to one member of the clan who is a premium member?

Optimus Prime · Post by **Optimus Prime** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 7:48 pm

hulmey wrote: If you notice they also picked up on yorkie's abuse (in another thread) just when he turned freemium. So they are obviuosly watchinig this quite closely!!

The fact that yorkiepeter has his premium expire has absolutely nothing to do with why he was discovered to be abusing his privileges.

rebelman · Post by **rebelman** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 8:53 pm

hulmey and all can we keep this on topic and not get sidetracked discussing the yorkie business

hulmey · Post by **hulmey** » Thu Jan 17, 2008 11:01 pm

sorry reb

Question still stands though :

why not grant tournament priv's to one member of a clan who is a premium member?

yorkiepeter · Post by **yorkiepeter** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:08 am

hulmey wrote:sorry reb

Question still stands though :

why not grant tournament priv's to one member of a clan who is a premium member?

good question that deserves an answer.

hwhrhett · Post by **hwhrhett** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 11:59 am

yorkiepeter wrote:
hulmey wrote:sorry reb

Question still stands though :

why not grant tournament priv's to one member of a clan who is a premium member?
good question that deserves an answer.

i think a better question would be, why not allow clan members who are currently running public tournaments to use those privileges for in-clan tournaments as well. not challenges, not games, ONLY in-clan tourneys and ONLY when they are also running public tourneys concurrently. i dont think thats out of the question or out of the realm of possibilities, as that was the policy before.

Optimus Prime · Post by **Optimus Prime** » Fri Jan 18, 2008 12:16 pm

Because at the moment, the tournament privileges are labeled specifically for that tournament. It gets confusing when searching games and keeping track of things if you use them for in-clan tournaments as well.

Yes, I know that you have the ability to add a "tag" to the label, but that isn't the point. The point is that if you are using them for in-clan things there are tons of games floating around with a tournament label that have nothing to do with that tournament.

should tournie privs be granted for clans ?

Should priviledges be granted for in-clan tournament and inter-clan challenges?

should tournie privs be granted for clans ?