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MeDeFe wrote:PLAYER57832 wrote:But, while you dismiss or ideas as "fairy tales", people of faith are, as a group, happier, more likely to contribute positively to soceity and generally more likely to be "good neighbors". (based on the most comprehensive studies of the subject .. not my opinion)
Religious people are also, empirically and historically, likelier to discriminate (even violently) against others based on characteristics like gender, lifestyle or faith. I am not saying religion is the sole cause for such behaviour, nor that such behaviour is to be found excusively among religous people, but religion has played and does still play a substantial role for causing and sustaining such behaviour within societies.
I do not deny your claims, but the effects of religion are not necessarily all positive either.
MeDeFe wrote:[As for the "good neighbours", if those studies were from the comparatively religious USA the majority of people that were asked are not unlikely to be biased in favour of religious neighbours.
Juan_Bottom wrote:MeDeFe wrote:Religious people are also, empirically and historically, likelier to discriminate (even violently) against others based on characteristics like gender, lifestyle or faith. I am not saying religion is the sole cause for such behaviour, nor that such behaviour is to be found excusively among religous people, but religion has played and does still play a substantial role for causing and sustaining such behaviour within societies.
I do not deny your claims, but the effects of religion are not necessarily all positive either.
I would say this ties into the negative correlation between religion and intelligence.
Plus there are a lot more of them than us, and so a lot more of them that are easier to control. It isn't a religion thing, it's a stupid people thing.
FabledIntegral wrote:Over 66% of the world is either Islamic or Christian, aka the two largest religions in the world.
Atheists are predicted to only make up around 15% of the world's population, although yes, they are positively correlated with education when comparing with religion (not necessarily intelligence).
PLAYER57832 wrote:FabledIntegral wrote:Over 66% of the world is either Islamic or Christian, aka the two largest religions in the world.
Atheists are predicted to only make up around 15% of the world's population, although yes, they are positively correlated with education when comparing with religion (not necessarily intelligence).
There are two reasons for this corrolation. First, pure numbers.
The other factor is wealth. Education is directly tied to wealth. More highly wealthy folks are not religious.
PLAYER57832 wrote:BUT, for those who do believe, it feels a need.
PLAYER57832 wrote:Is religion necessary to be happy, to lead a "good" and "moral" life? Of course not. Nor does adherance to religion in any way gaurantee that those good things will take precedence.
PLAYER57832 wrote:What we REALLY need is to accept that people are different, have different ideas. As long as we each speak truthfully, as long as we agree to work together on issues of importance, what do our personal belief difference matter?
PLAYER57832 wrote:I DO ask a minimum of respect and tolerance for my beliefs, though definitely not acceptance. I WILL absolutely defend my beliefs (and do not consider defense of other beliefs to be "disrespectful" ... as long as they are reasonably worded).
PLAYER57832 wrote:we can look around and see the goodness that is the response to evil, see the help and aid that comes every day. If we look for those things, then we tend to be happier, AND are actually more likely to go out and behave in good ways ourselves. So, the real question is not about justice. The real question is how you act from day to day.
Backglass wrote:PLAYER57832 wrote:What we REALLY need is to accept that people are different, have different ideas. As long as we each speak truthfully, as long as we agree to work together on issues of importance, what do our personal belief difference matter?
It doesn't if it stops there. It seems we have a very similar way of thinking Player. Personally, I could care less what Jay or you or anyone else does in their private homes or church/synagogue/mosque/cave. Pray 18 hours a day...sacrifice a chicken...knock yourself out. It doesn't bother me in the slightest. But it doesn't stop there. It is when theses people determine that MY kids will be better off learning their fairy tales in PUBLIC school or that I will be better off with THEIR religious texts on the courthouse wall, or tell other women what they can and cannot do with their bodies that I take issue.
Maybe not a billboard, but folks carrying plackards -- last time I was in CA ... lolWhen is the last time you saw a Buddhist Billboard on the highway chastising you?
suggs wrote:Yes, but verbose waffle is often just a cover for vacuity and lack of analytical rigour.
In general, its the xians who like to waffle, because they are defending a fundamentally incoherent position.
I feel sorry for them really, because they've got their work cut out.
Whereas, for the agnostic or atheist, we can say, "well, your position amounts to 'God knows best and i have faith". Its fairly clear thats not an argument, so the xians have to retreat into allegory and questionable analogies.
PLAYER57832 wrote:suggs wrote:Yes, but verbose waffle is often just a cover for vacuity and lack of analytical rigour.
In general, its the xians who like to waffle, because they are defending a fundamentally incoherent position.
I feel sorry for them really, because they've got their work cut out.
Whereas, for the agnostic or atheist, we can say, "well, your position amounts to 'God knows best and i have faith". Its fairly clear thats not an argument, so the xians have to retreat into allegory and questionable analogies.
So said the blind man about the elephant ....
Sometimes it is not the speaker, but the listener that is limited.
Backglass wrote:or jays favorite: "You'll see! WHEN YOUR DEAD!"and thats a good thing.
rocky mountain wrote:Atheists say the same thing. maybe not you, but some do. so it's not just christians.
what do you mean by "and thats a good thing"?
rocky mountain wrote:Backglass wrote:or jays favorite: "You'll see! WHEN YOUR DEAD!"and thats a good thing.
Atheists say the same thing. maybe not you, but some do. so it's not just christians.
what do you mean by "and thats a good thing"?
saxitoxin wrote:Your position is more complex than the federal tax code. As soon as I think I understand it, I find another index of cross-references, exceptions and amendments I have to apply.
Timminz wrote:Yo mama is so classless, she could be a Marxist utopia.
PLAYER57832 wrote:FabledIntegral wrote:Over 66% of the world is either Islamic or Christian, aka the two largest religions in the world.
Atheists are predicted to only make up around 15% of the world's population, although yes, they are positively correlated with education when comparing with religion (not necessarily intelligence).
There are two reasons for this corrolation. First, pure numbers.
The other factor is wealth. Education is directly tied to wealth. More highly wealthy folks are not religious.
FabledIntegral wrote:PLAYER57832 wrote:FabledIntegral wrote:Over 66% of the world is either Islamic or Christian, aka the two largest religions in the world.
Atheists are predicted to only make up around 15% of the world's population, although yes, they are positively correlated with education when comparing with religion (not necessarily intelligence).
There are two reasons for this corrolation. First, pure numbers.
The other factor is wealth. Education is directly tied to wealth. More highly wealthy folks are not religious.
Not exactly. Currently the people that have the most education are college students, as much of their knowledge that they retain from the education dwindles from the years. In the prime of their education, students are generally very poor. I myself am a university student at UCI, and have less than $500 in my account atm (and gas prices at $4.15 are killing me). And studies show religion is lowest at urban areas + colleges... although from what I'm aware they still make up a majority.
PLAYER57832 wrote:I thought the story of the blind men and the elephant were pretty well known, but anyway ..
3 blind wise men were shown an elephant and told to examine it. One felt the trunk, another the foot, another the body. Each came up with completely accurate descriptions of what they saw, but all very different.
No one can absolutely "know" whether God exists or not, what happens after we die. Shoot, we can barely even understand time. (what came before ... after ... is there such a thing ... how can there not be?)
suggs wrote:so the xians have to retreat into allegory and questionable analogies.
InkL0sed wrote:FabledIntegral wrote:PLAYER57832 wrote:FabledIntegral wrote:Over 66% of the world is either Islamic or Christian, aka the two largest religions in the world.
Atheists are predicted to only make up around 15% of the world's population, although yes, they are positively correlated with education when comparing with religion (not necessarily intelligence).
There are two reasons for this corrolation. First, pure numbers.
The other factor is wealth. Education is directly tied to wealth. More highly wealthy folks are not religious.
Not exactly. Currently the people that have the most education are college students, as much of their knowledge that they retain from the education dwindles from the years. In the prime of their education, students are generally very poor. I myself am a university student at UCI, and have less than $500 in my account atm (and gas prices at $4.15 are killing me). And studies show religion is lowest at urban areas + colleges... although from what I'm aware they still make up a majority.
I'm not sure how true that is of the world outside the US... after all, I'm pretty sure that educated Indonesians are usually pretty rich ( at least, relative to the average Indonesian).
joecoolfrog wrote:The point should also be made that a lot of people are only nominaly religious, Many people in Britain might say they are COE but have not prayed or set foot in a church ( outside weddings/funerals ) for years.
FabledIntegral wrote:PLAYER57832 wrote:FabledIntegral wrote:Over 66% of the world is either Islamic or Christian, aka the two largest religions in the world.
Atheists are predicted to only make up around 15% of the world's population, although yes, they are positively correlated with education when comparing with religion (not necessarily intelligence).
There are two reasons for this corrolation. First, pure numbers.
The other factor is wealth. Education is directly tied to wealth. More highly wealthy folks are not religious.
Not exactly. Currently the people that have the most education are college students, as much of their knowledge that they retain from the education dwindles from the years. In the prime of their education, students are generally very poor. I myself am a university student at UCI, and have less than $500 in my account atm (and gas prices at $4.15 are killing me). And studies show religion is lowest at urban areas + colleges... although from what I'm aware they still make up a majority.
PLAYER57832 wrote:jay_a2j wrote:Wow, you really need to read Genesis again. God created Adam "from the dust of the Earth".
So does Evolution .. or just what do you think minerals, etc. are?jay_a2j wrote: Not evolved Adam from an ape. You are the one believing lies.
The funny thing is that Evolution does not say man evolved from an ape either ... CHECK YOUR FACTS! And that about sums up the biggest reason why Creationists tend to be considered at best HIGHLY misinformed and more often, highly gullible to down right idiotic.There is a reason science cannot prove evolution, because it never happened.
No, science almost never PROVES anything .. it generally disproves stuff ... and your version of Creationism HAS been disproven. Further, though there are legitimate questions about Evolution (big E, the theory) ... such as were dinosaurs warm blooded, did birds evolve directly from certain dinosaurs, exactly how old the earth is etc. There IS NO question about the foundations, the basics.
The FACTS are that evolution (small e) as a process HAS been proven. Natural selection DOES occur, but is not the only factor of Evolution (and Christians absolutely believe God is steering the whole enterprise!). Mutations absolutely occur. Species absolutely change over time and DO become other species, though quite slowly. The Earth is definitely millions of years old, not thousands.And be warned that many attend church but that does not make them Christian.
You took the words out of my mouth ...Some "Christian" denominations support homosexuality, will you then support it, if it becomes the "norm" in Christian churches?
When I am perfect, THEN and only then will I have the right to judge others. THAT is what the Bible says. Until then, the earthly concern is one of "will it harm me". Homosexuality does not.If your understanding of scripture is based on "majority rules" without verifying the teaching in scripture, you may end up being a part of fulfilled prophecy..... "In those days many will be deceived, even the elect if that were possible".No majority does not rule, but there are very good reasons WHY so many, many, many churches agree with evolution. It is REAL. Denying it is to deny truth. Period. There IS no other way around it. IF you bothered to research the "facts" you claim support your ideas, you would realize this. Instead, you wish to view the MOST NARROW possible interpretation.
Doesn't it strike you as just a little strange that, while you claim to adhere so strictly to the OLD TESTAMENT, that Jews - the keepers of the old testament since before Christ, the very folks who brought forth Christ and to whom we look for our historical precedence.. THEY have NEVER questioned this idea of evolution ...
YOUR ideas are limited to a very narrow group of supposedly "fundamentalist" Christians. You want to draw fine lines around words like "dust" and claim that the Genesis reference to "days" means a revolution of the our Earth (before Earth even existed!) instead of as bodies of time, an illustration for non-scientific humans. The concept of working, then resting. You want to take that reference as absolutely and utterly exact, yet, later, when the Bible talks of "sons of God" ... and talks of "Giants" THEN you decide it is OK to not be so literal.
You want to hold certain laws as above others, though the BIBLE, the new Testament tells us the law to hold ABOVE ALL ELSE is to "love thy God and love thy neighbor as thyself", NOT "judge everyone". I stand by my beliefs and my views. I stand among much good company.
If you wished to look critically at those who are proposing what you put forth, you will not find such stellar examples. You will find people putting forth hatred of others as if it were love, condemnation instead of acceptance and forgiveness. Judgement of others instead of self-criticism. Lies that are "OK" because in the end, they will be justified by truth (talk about hypocrisy!). THOSE are not the principals that Christ put forth.
YOu want evidence of evolution? Look around, watch the plants grow, LEARN about the relationships between animals, plants, the impacts that we, as humans have had on the Earth around us. Only God could have created such perfection (and yes, I know non Christians don't agree .. move on, please). To limit God to what YOU percieve, to what YOU think is to deny his majesty. How simple it would have been for him to simply snap his fingers and say "poof" here is everything. Except, that is not what actually happened. What did happen is a testament to God, not believing lies.
You want to try to challenge Evolution? FIRST understand it. I am not discussing it further in this thread. I am not going to repeat what has already been said in other threads again and again. You can either view truth or let yourself be decieved. Everything science puts forward as truth is PROVED. Creationism insists on falsities and lies.
PLAYER57832 wrote:Too many of those who claim they don't believe global warming are really "end-timer" Christians.
jay_a2j wrote:
There is no "evidence of evolution".
Now I know there are a lot of people who insist gravity is fact. But sadly, they aren't looking at the facts. If gravity was ever proven to be fact, we would no longer be debating it. It is a theory and only a theory.
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