"Point Restriction" tournaments

[Serbia]

Besides, did anyone stop and think about the fact that blitz's wave of 1v1 tourneys may have a positive benefit for the tourney forum, by bringing in high ranks that might never have joined one before?

How is it a benefit if these higher ranked players are playing in tournaments against only other higher-ranked players? It just further separates them from the lower ranked players, which is where the cry of "elitist!" is coming from.

[Timminz]

to call 100% of the top 300 point-farmers is not only incorrect, it's pretty asshole-ish.

I'm pretty sure he meant that 100% of the farmers are in the top 300, not that 100% of the top 300 are farmers.

[SuicidalSnowman]

I have a serious issue with this if it is overloading the CC staff. We already have enough problems with lack of staff/mods on this site.

I will suggest a solution, however, instead of just pointing fingers:

Perhaps a good idea would be a restriction on the number of tournaments started by each person to one per month. That is plenty, in my opinion, and would encourage people to THINK about what tournament they are starting. They can start all the unofficial ones they want, but only get official CC privs for the one.


Also, someone mentioned medals, and I hope this isn't farming medals for the "TOP CC Players by points/medals" thread that Blitz maintains.

[Optimus Prime]

Besides, did anyone stop and think about the fact that blitz's wave of 1v1 tourneys may have a positive benefit for the tourney forum, by bringing in high ranks that might never have joined one before?

It brings absolutely no benefit to the tournament forums. If the only reason they are here is because someone built them a tournament to protect their "precious points" then the chances of them joining any other tournaments is pretty slim. That does not translate into any kind of benefit from what I can see.

It isn't a benefit, it's a pain in the ass, especially when he makes so many, and it's the same players over and over. How do you think that looks to all of the other players who want to join a tournament but then show up to find out "Oh wait, I can't join that one, I'm not ranked well enough."

It's nothing but a detriment to bring them all in here if they aren't going to do anything but hang out with themselves in custom made tournament situations. Unless they are willing to play in all of the tournaments, there is no benefit.

Sorry, Incandenza, your statement is completely faulty.

[Serbia]

Also, someone mentioned medals, and I hope this isn't farming medals for the "TOP CC Players by points/medals" thread that Blitz maintains.

We have a winner!

[Optimus Prime]

Also, someone mentioned medals, and I hope this isn't farming medals for the "TOP CC Players by points/medals" thread that Blitz maintains.

This is exactly what is happening. They have the other ones, so now they want to try and max out on the contribution medal that they can feasibly obtain.

Blitzaholic never would have run a tournament if I hadn't held his hand through every damn step of the process the first time around. Hell, he didn't even know how to copy and paste a sentence from one post to the other. I gave him a template to get his feet wet, and now he's spamming up the forum with them.

I'm ashamed that I was the catalyst for this, and that's why it makes me so upset. I certainly do hope that the TDs put a limit on the number of tournaments someone can run at the same time. It would do a world of good, and that's coming from someone who has personally dealt with the problems these kind of situations create behind the scenes.

[Bones2484]

Besides, did anyone stop and think about the fact that blitz's wave of 1v1 tourneys may have a positive benefit for the tourney forum, by bringing in high ranks that might never have joined one before?

It won't, Incandeza. Every "top ranked" player who isn't a tournament regular that has posted in here has said that they will not play lower ranks because of certain reasons. Losing points is the main reason, but they are also afraid of stupid moves. Feel free to read through all the posts.

In my opinion, stupid moves are made more by new players... not lower ranked ones.

[max is gr8]

rbelgrod, I think, is an example of how high ranks should be, he has joined lots of my tourneys regardless of rank.

[White Moose]

rbelgrod, I think, is an example of how high ranks should be, he has joined lots of my tourneys regardless of rank.

*cough cough* *waves hands* *hrmm*



jk

[Gilligan]

Also, someone mentioned medals, and I hope this isn't farming medals for the "TOP CC Players by points/medals" thread that Blitz maintains.

We have a winner!

Exactly what I was telling Night Strike... He wants to be the first person to A) Have the most medals, B) Be the first person to get X amount of medals and/or C) Be #1 on that list of his and get under the VERSED CC MASTER heading.

[Bones2484]

rbelgrod, I think, is an example of how high ranks should be, he has joined lots of my tourneys regardless of rank.

*cough cough* *waves hands* *hrmm*



jk

Yep! Don't forget Moose and Killmanic! Those two come to mind very quickly for me.

[Gilligan]

And knighthawk and Hath.

[amazzony]

rbelgrod, I think, is an example of how high ranks should be, he has joined lots of my tourneys regardless of rank.

There are several high rank players who join all kind of tournaments and are ready to compete with anybody and anywhere. BaldAdonis, Godd and killmanic, top 3 who have gathered most tournament wins, all great players and not afraid to play in tournaments. Bones2484, White Moose, negoeien, Timminz, Hath, knighthawk and many many more. They are all stable majors/colonels (in rare cases captains/lieutenants). Of course, they are not in the top 250 but when looking at the scoreboard they are in the top 5-6 pages which puts them in the top 5% of the scoreboard.

Anyway, tournaments aren't about rank because rank and scoring system has proved long time ago that it doesn't favour "all-arounders" but those who are good at some certain type. There's nothing bad at it, we just need to take it under consideration when looking at the scoreboard and remember what scoreboard means and reflects. So, please, blitz and others, don't come to tournament forums with your crap that tournament wins mean nothing. If you haven't been in here and don't know how tournament works then please go back where you came from until you gather some knowledge. Honestly, what gives you the right to come here, say that everything that has been done and accomplished here is worth nothing? How do you know it???

I'm glad that somebody was brave enough to say out loud why blitz is really here - for the medals and for his top-thread. Such bollocks. Fine, aim for medals but make it in a classy way. Using the same form (stolen from OP who shouldn't be ashamed or feel responsible at all) over and over again (wait, not even over and over but all at the same time), trying to figure out how to get to the top of tournament wins... amazingly low and childish.

For me, whoever wins Blitz's tournaments, it means nothing. Yes, sadly the Hall of Winners accepts them. There are the same people, same teams competing over and over again. Even if killmanic or White Moose should win several of them (I have no doubt they will) then they mean nothing. I know they are great 1v1 players and they will have no problem defeating "newcomer" highest rank players. Of course, the unlimited (in some tournaments) setting will surely diminish the chances of best players (who are allowed to enter) to win them and blitz will have even more chance to grab a few for himself.

I actually pulled myself together and read what blitz has written. What a mess. But main point is - yes, they are allowed and you didn't brake any rules. But higher from any kind of written rule should be your own conscience and moral values. I guess you don't have any of them. You are just a greedy bastard who feels that getting in top sth is worth showing your lack of imagination and insulting those who have worked hard and a lot to gain their tourney wins or organise tournaments.

Really, blitz and other high ranks who are smashmouthing here, what do you know about tournaments and tournament forums?? Do you know what is happening in here, what's the point and reason for them? What it means to many players who visit these tournaments daily? How much Optimus has done to change this place and make what it is? How much it has changed in the past year? I know answers to these questions because I've spent a lot of time in here and I've figured this place out and given my part to make it a pleasant place. Have you?

negoeien, glad to see you hopping in here and saying a few great words. "Keep up the good work you know I'll be joining!" You know, you are always welcome!

Incandenza, I think it has been explained really clearly that these tournaments do not bring anything good to these forums, they lower the value of this place. Sadly also my respect for you has got a hit due to this statement (I know it doesn't mean anything to you but I've also thought you are a sensible guy).

I don't know why I keep returning to this thread as it is clear that nothing will change from this argue

[Mageplunka69]

rbelgrod, I think, is an example of how high ranks should be, he has joined lots of my tourneys regardless of rank.

*cough cough* *waves hands* *hrmm*



jk

what the hell you coughing about, something in you throat? ...lol

[barterer2002]

Well you guys have had quite a conversation this weekend. As one of the more prolific TO's on the site I'd like to take the opportunity to welcome Blitz and JR to the world of Tournament organization.

I've always thought that there are two types of players on CC. Those who play for points and those who play for fun. I wouldn't say that either of them is wrong.

My own perspective is that its fun to play new settings and new maps and I try to take all comers in any situation. Others try to gain lots of points by being great at one thing, whether it be 8 player singles freestyle speed games or Quads on 2.1 or starting 50 Circus Maximus games at once and playing anyone (usually but not always noobs) who joins.

I don't have a problem with either perspective.

I do find it silly though to assume that the top 300 players are the best 300 players as I don't think its true. I think they may each have one thing where they're the best at but most will not be able to handle certain other maps or settings.

Its also been said that high ranks are more likely to not deadbeat but in general I have more trouble with high ranks dropping out of tournaments than low ranks. I can not say how often I have heard the excuse "I'm losing so many points to stay in this one"

In terms of point restrictions I haven't used them for anything except the current multi organizer one where I'm running a Private First Class bracket but there are also brackets for others out there. I think they probably have some place though.

I also don't have a problem with Blitz running a series. I've got the Championship Series, OP had Point Grabbers, ZZ has Termination, Gilligan has Madness, Nate has Foundry Update. In other words, most of the top organizers have series within their tournament portfolio. The difference is that Blitz has put all of his out at once. Most of the other series are a bit more spread out. The Championship Series, for example never has more than 2 at a time in sign ups or more than 8 at a time in play.

For me, the best part of the tournament forums has been that it is welcoming to all, anyone who would like to run a tournament can do so and we constantly see new blood organizing. There has been some lamenting that I've heard about the number of 16 player 1v1 games but there are also plenty of other formats out there to play. Is Blitz being elitist in his tournament set ups. Probably. Are the tournament regulars also being elitist in restricting his ability to create this type of tournament, again, probably.

Personally I don't like to see this from either side. As with most cases, there is right and wrong on both sides in this discussion and a lot of angry words thrown both ways. I'm hoping we can bring the conversation towards a bit more back to civility on both sides here if anyone can read this much of a post at once

[Marfski]

Rank is definitely not an indicator of a person's overall playing ability. I was up to 2569 and if I had continued to play what I like to play which is singles, and team games I have no doubt in my mind that I would be in the brigadeer range now, but I decided to work on my cross map at the same time as my assassin and terminator medals and put over 50 games out on maps that I don't play a lot. Through that whole adventure I plummeted all the way down to private first class before I started on my way up again.

It would be silly if I weren't allowed in singles and team tournaments because of my rank. My rank didn't mean that I would play like a private first class in singles or team games it just meant I sucked pretty bad at the games I was trying to win (terminator and assassin). I have also went up and down in rank by playing in tons of tournaments. It is a very complex environment to try to win in and I think that everyone who has ever walked away victor should feel very proud of their accomplishment.

I don't know why I keep returning to this thread as it is clear that nothing will change from this argue

I think it is great that people keep responding to this thread and who knows, it is possible that some clarification or change could be made, because it certainly needs to. If it doesn't I can see what is happening now possibly ruining this tournament community and why let that happen?

I'm glad that somebody was brave enough to say out loud why blitz is really here - for the medals and for his top-thread. Such bollocks. Fine, aim for medals but make it in a classy way. Using the same form (stolen from OP who shouldn't be ashamed or feel responsible at all) over and over again (wait, not even over and over but all at the same time), trying to figure out how to get to the top of tournament wins... amazingly low and childish.

I know personally that this is what has made me so disgusted by the whole thing (in addition to the point restriction). When I think of the tournament organizers who have invested great time and energy to creating tournaments that are interactive and interesting and creative and unique and sometimes last months if not a year and then I compare it with Blitz sticking the same format tournament out there over and over(which by the way is the easiest/fastest possible one to run) of course it smacks of medal mongoring and opportunism.

There is nothing wrong with running a 16 player bracket tournament but there is when it is so apparent that it is just a means to an end and the end is a list or medal count.

Until this happened I don't think this community cared too much one way or another about point loss. If you lost, you lost and that was that. I still don't think this community cares about it, which is why this focus on points needs to be put to death and done away with along with the point restriction tournaments. Also, because of this abuse of running countless tournaments of the same type in the easiest format just to get medals I think something needs to be done with deciding what qualifies a person for a medal when organizing tournaments.

[Natewolfman]

Personally I don't like to see this from either side. As with most cases, there is right and wrong on both sides in this discussion and a lot of angry words thrown both ways. I'm hoping we can bring the conversation towards a bit more back to civility on both sides

this is my biggest sentiment on this argument... lol which is why you havnt seen me post yet

[Kotaro]

I don't mind the point restriction. If the higher ups are too afraid for their points, let them play by themselves. The problem I have is that Blitz is using the near exact text for every single one of these tournaments, and just changing the map. Get creative, or don't spam and annoy the hell out of the rest of us.

[Serbia]

If the higher ups are too afraid for their points, let them play by themselves.

I agree with this. However, games like this don't belong in the Tournament Forums, but rather in Callouts and done via PM and Private Games, not with special Tournament Privileges.

[negoeien]

Well I definately want some medals too :p and I'm planning on starting some tournaments one or two at tha same time so no overload. And very big ones.
IN honour of Optimus prime who almost stopped creating tournies and ofcourse all the other great famous tourney organizers, not gonna mention them all because I'll probably forget someoen and that would be a shame.
Now do i just ahve to ask privileges to OP or so?

[BaldAdonis]

And BaldAdonis, for you to call 100% of the top 300 point-farmers is not only incorrect, it's pretty asshole-ish.

Reread it. I said 100% of farmers are in the top 300.

[Gilligan]

To a tournament director -- Steelhorse or Night Strike.

Check out the Tournament Handbook.

[Blitzaholic]

Well you guys have had quite a conversation this weekend. As one of the more prolific TO's on the site I'd like to take the opportunity to welcome Blitz and JR to the world of Tournament organization.

I've always thought that there are two types of players on CC. Those who play for points and those who play for fun. I wouldn't say that either of them is wrong.

My own perspective is that its fun to play new settings and new maps and I try to take all comers in any situation. Others try to gain lots of points by being great at one thing, whether it be 8 player singles freestyle speed games or Quads on 2.1 or starting 50 Circus Maximus games at once and playing anyone (usually but not always noobs) who joins.

I don't have a problem with either perspective.

I do find it silly though to assume that the top 300 players are the best 300 players as I don't think its true. I think they may each have one thing where they're the best at but most will not be able to handle certain other maps or settings.

Its also been said that high ranks are more likely to not deadbeat but in general I have more trouble with high ranks dropping out of tournaments than low ranks. I can not say how often I have heard the excuse "I'm losing so many points to stay in this one"

In terms of point restrictions I haven't used them for anything except the current multi organizer one where I'm running a Private First Class bracket but there are also brackets for others out there. I think they probably have some place though.

I also don't have a problem with Blitz running a series. I've got the Championship Series, OP had Point Grabbers, ZZ has Termination, Gilligan has Madness, Nate has Foundry Update. In other words, most of the top organizers have series within their tournament portfolio. The difference is that Blitz has put all of his out at once. Most of the other series are a bit more spread out. The Championship Series, for example never has more than 2 at a time in sign ups or more than 8 at a time in play.

For me, the best part of the tournament forums has been that it is welcoming to all, anyone who would like to run a tournament can do so and we constantly see new blood organizing. There has been some lamenting that I've heard about the number of 16 player 1v1 games but there are also plenty of other formats out there to play. Is Blitz being elitist in his tournament set ups. Probably. Are the tournament regulars also being elitist in restricting his ability to create this type of tournament, again, probably.

Personally I don't like to see this from either side. As with most cases, there is right and wrong on both sides in this discussion and a lot of angry words thrown both ways. I'm hoping we can bring the conversation towards a bit more back to civility on both sides here if anyone can read this much of a post at once

thank you barterer2002

I would just like to say a last few things and then I am done:

# 1. since this seemed to cause so much drama, I will not be making any more 1 vs 1's,

# 2. I owe Optimus Prime credit fro helping me start tourneys, and I do not mind growing and making larger ones, but need support as I am limited in this area,

# 3. yes, I am new to tourneys, i only maybe played a few before this last month, I finished runner up or 2nd place several times, another was with gav011 a boxing tourney early early on back in 2006 (it was a big tourney and finished 3rd), I also joined one of andrewb's big tourneys with solid team, that last over 6 months and placed in the final 6, so I think I can hold my own, and recently won 2 quads tourneys with good quality teams in them.

# 4. maybe just for fun, if so many of you are calling me out, why don't we set up a tourney where the tournament organizers choose the top 10 to 12 best tournament players who they think and they take on me and or THOTA, the clan I am in and lets just see if we can compete against the best on the site Let's just for fun see if high scores can compete against who you all deem as the tourneys best. I am willing to lay my points on the line as it is quite easy for me to reach 4000 score anytime I really want.

This is not meant to be disrespectful, but to perhaps show all that some of the top score can compete against anyone on this site and would be willing to change any and ALL. We as THOTA believe we got some of the best players, but the tourney organizers seem to be bias and think the tournament players are the best, well, let's have a challenge, a fun one, make it as skillful as you like I am IN. I do not wish to engage in childish arguments, but would be willing to let my game do the talking, so if interested, please send me a private PM and lets have some fun, let's try to compromise on something fair, would this be acceptable? Not that I have to prove anything, but, I am willing to show that I dont care about points as much as some may think.

I am very versitle and play all styles, all maps and game types. The only reason sometimes I have not joined some low ranked tournies in the past is because of recently what happens when I do, I got hung in an assassin tourney and someone crippled me to 4 armies and I was not even there target, the next player swoops in and ends it, lame. I am not saying all do this, what I am saying is some low scores have no clue how to play some game types and you subject yourself to some poor play when you enter any of these, so enter at your own risk. Anyways, i have respect for you all, and if you all could just talk civil and with some class, I am willing to reason, like I said, lesson learned.

I admit I am fairly new to tourney play and willing to listen to all of you who are more experienced. So, all that do not know, it is a bit embarassing for me to say, but it is the truth, i am limited and do not have much computer skill. the very little I do have is because of Optimus Prime, without him, I am not sure I could of made any, so that is why I have a limited style, I did try to mix it up and make some best of 3's, 5's, 7's, and 9's to lengthen them. I know several tourney players are solid, there is over 300,000 on this site or that has come thru here or more, so when I said that I THINK (my opinion) that 90% of the best players are in the top 350 on the scoreboard, and 10% outside of it, well 10% of 300,000 is 30,000, thats right thirty thousand, thats a hefty number left outside the top 350 on the scoreboard, and I am quite sure that means most in strictly all tournaments.

I sincerely apologize to any and all for any inconvenience, but when cc players start posting and calling me names or being insulting, hmmmm, well, I do not respond well to that. I received several pm's from well respected tournament players and organizers and listened to them all, and out of respect for all in here, as I said, i am willing to stop making 1 vs 1 tournies with score limitations, I just wanted some high scorers to have a few shots, but not worth it if it cause this much stress.

Again, sorry to all and it wont happen again. I hope this ends the drama please. Respects Blitzaholic

[negoeien]

thank you barterer2002

I would just like to say a last few things and then I am done:

# 1. since this seemed to cause so much drama, I will not be making any more 1 vs 1's,

# 2. I owe Optimus Prime credit fro helping me start tourneys, and I do not mind growing and making larger ones, but need support as I am limited in this area,

# 3. yes, I am new to tourneys, i only maybe played a few before this last month, one was with gav011 a boxing tourney early early on back in 2006 (it was a big tourney and finished 3rd), I also joined one of andrewb's big tourneys with solid team, that last over 6 months and placed in the final 6, so I think I can hold my own, and recently won 2 quads tourneys with good quality teams in them.

# 4. maybe just for fun, if so many of you are calling me out, why don't we set up a tourney where the tournament organizers choose the top 10 to 12 best tournament players who they think and they take on me and or THOTA, the clan I am in and lets just see if we can compete against the best on the site Let's just for fun see if high scores can compete against who you all deem as the tourneys best. I am willing to lay my points on the line as it is quite easy for me to reach 4000 score anytime I really want.

This is not meant to be disrespectful, but to perhaps show all that some of the top score can compete against anyone on this site and would be willing to change any and ALL. We as THOTA believe we got some of the best players, but the tourney organizers seem to be bias and think the tournament players are the best, well, let's have a challenge, a fun one, make it as skillful as you like I am IN. I do not wish to engage in childish arguments, but would be willing to let my game do the talking, so if interested, please send me a private PM and lets have some fun, let's try to compromise on something fair, would this be acceptable? Not that I have to prove anything, but, I am willing to show that I dont care about points as much as some may think.

I am very versitle and play all styles, all maps and game types. The only reason sometimes I have not joined some low ranked tournies in the past is because of recently what happens when I do, I got hung in an assassin tourney and someone crippled me to 4 armies and I was not even there target, the next player swoops in and ends it, lame. I am not saying all do this, what I am saying is some low scores have no clue how to play some game types and you subject yourself to some poor play when you enter any of these, so enter at your own risk. Anyways, i have respect for you all, and if you all could just talk civil and with some class, I am willing to reason, like I said, lesson learned.

I admit I am fairly new to tourney play and willing to listen to all of you who are more experienced. So, all that do not know, it is a bit embarassing for me to say, but it is the truth, i am limited and do not have much computer skill. the very little I do have is because of Optimus Prime, without him, I am not sure I could of made any, so that is why I have a limited style, I did try to mix it up and make some best of 3's, 5's, 7's, and 9's to lengthen them. I know several tourney players are solid, there is over 300,000 on this site or that has come thru here or more, so when I said that I THINK (my opinion) that 90% of the best players are in the top 350 on the scoreboard, and 10% outside of it, well 10% of 300,000 is 30,000, thats right thirty thousand, thats a hefty number left outside the top 350 on the scoreboard, and I am quite sure that means most in strictly all tournaments.

I sincerely apologize to any and all for any inconvenience, but when cc players start posting and calling me names or being insulting, hmmmm, well, I do not respond well to that. I received several pm's from well respected tournament players and organizers and listened to them all, and out of respect for all in here, as I said, i am willing to stop making 1 vs 1 tournies with score limitations, I just wanted some high scorers to have a few shots, but not worth it if it cause this much stress.

Again, sorry to all and it wont happen again. I hope this ends the drama please. Respects Blitzaholic

Applauds!! Nice post Blitzaholic, I never even tried to insult you, I hope you realize that.
1) I knwo you are a great player, I really do
2) Thota is agreat clan but to cocky
3) The challenge you rpesent for challenging the top 12 tournament players is a nice intention but wouldn't be realistic at all.
a) most tournies are standard and not team games and I think you are only usual to play standard 6 player escalating with high ranked players which is totally different.
b) The biggest issue for not being realistic is teh adaption of gameplay needed to survive against irrational erratic moves. When playing good players you can expect what they will do because they are good players and they know the mechanics of the game. But in tournies you meet (sorry to say it so frankly) noobs and average players and that's why you ahev to adapt your gameplay and strategies every game again, and I don't think you're quite good at that.
c) To prove your rights Blitzaholic, I invite you to join some very large standard tournament games (which i'm going to make some or one ) and end top 3 and see how hard it is . It's just a different way of playing and you'll have a hard time adapting to that I'm sure .

Anyways it was a real nice post and I really liked it!

P.S: Isn't some of your motivation just getting extra medals and become oe the top 5 of tourney winners by making easy , restricted tournies, all the same with no originality?
P.P.S: gilligan thx for pointing that out I'm gonna contact one of those and get some privileges!

[Nephilim]

you tourney boys are really cracking me up:

1) only the tourneys that don't piss us off should count
2) all you tourney forum noobs don't know shit
3) nothing you could possibly do could possibly be a positive

oh and finally, 4) you are elitists

how funny! isn't this just a case of the OP and mr. OP getting all pissy b/c something they don't like is happening in their precious forum? you can do all the name-calling you want, but you're the ones coming off as elitist control freaks.

thanks to barterer for injecting some reason here. everyone just leave poor blitz alone, he found a new hobby and he can enjoy it how he sees fit. it's not up to you tourney snobs to tell him what he can and can't do.