Jesus was a "Liberal"

[brooksieb]

Absolutely, without doubt. A guy running around the country with 12 other guys preaching love and forgiveness, absolutely.

Excuse me, as much as you 'might' not like Jesus, this is unfortunately the wrong thread to be making remarks like that, i suggest you find a thread that you can make funny jokes about jesus.... Alternatively you can waste energy by making a thread of your' own, your' call.

[Snorri1234]

Jesus was basically apolitical. He basically just said go about your business and give your taxes to The Man, cuz it's not going to matter in the end anyways.

I don't think He'd care one way or the other, socialist or capitalist - he didn't preach to or about governments, he preached to and about people.

Insofar as Socialism is based on a flagrant violation of human rights, which Jesus very much believed in, I'd say he'd care. You can't call Jesus completely apolitical without ending up in a self-defeating scenario in which you start having to draw arbitrary lines in the sand. I mean, would Jesus have cared about the Commies coming to power, or about the Nazis? I'd like to think so. Fundamentally, the only system compatible with objective morality is libertarianism. Hence really a foundation of the idea that Jesus was a liberal, in the classical sense. To an extent though, you're right, in that he clearly had concerns for far bigger things.

I agree. I think Jesus was more concerned with the social aspect of libertarianism than the economic aspect though. As you say, he wasn't concerned about taxes and such trivial stuff but more the bigger things that are about how to live happy and shit.

[porkenbeans]

Jesus was basically apolitical. He basically just said go about your business and give your taxes to The Man, cuz it's not going to matter in the end anyways.

I don't think He'd care one way or the other, socialist or capitalist - he didn't preach to or about governments, he preached to and about people.

Insofar as Socialism is based on a flagrant violation of human rights, which Jesus very much believed in, I'd say he'd care. You can't call Jesus completely apolitical without ending up in a self-defeating scenario in which you start having to draw arbitrary lines in the sand. I mean, would Jesus have cared about the Commies coming to power, or about the Nazis? I'd like to think so. Fundamentally, the only system compatible with objective morality is libertarianism. Hence really a foundation of the idea that Jesus was a liberal, in the classical sense. To an extent though, you're right, in that he clearly had concerns for far bigger things.

I agree. I think Jesus was more concerned with the social aspect of libertarianism than the economic aspect though. As you say, he wasn't concerned about taxes and such trivial stuff but more the bigger things that are about how to live happy and shit.

What, like a wide stance insted of a narrow one ?

[bbqpenguin]

ok, how about this? i'll grant you that Jesus was a liberal (with a lower case l) in the broadest sense in that what he preached was against the common ideologies and customs of his time and certainly wasn't at all traditional in actions ( hanging out with those damn tax collectors; where does he get the nerve?!)

I would still argue, however, that he had very few if any of the sentiments that today's Liberals (capital L!) have. can you name any? I don't see anything in there about abortion rights, or a welfare state, or big government, but maybe you can find something. I'm to lazy to go through the trouble of proving he was conservative but if you care to show evidence that he was indeed a Liberal then you'll convince me : )

[porkenbeans]

ok, how about this? i'll grant you that Jesus was a liberal (with a lower case l) in the broadest sense in that what he preached was against the common ideologies and customs of his time and certainly wasn't at all traditional in actions ( hanging out with those damn tax collectors; where does he get the nerve?!)

I would still argue, however, that he had very few if any of the sentiments that today's Liberals (capital L!) have. can you name any? I don't see anything in there about abortion rights, or a welfare state, or big government, but maybe you can find something. I'm to lazy to go through the trouble of proving he was conservative but if you care to show evidence that he was indeed a Liberal then you'll convince me : )

I have already answered this. My evidence is in EVERY red word in the bible. Do you want me to literally type them all. How about you give me just one that refutes my contention. If you cant do this one simple thing, then you miss the topic of this thread. How many times must I repeat myself. I WANT RED WORDS.

[luns101]

I do understand that you may find it ludicrous. But why do you find it ludicrous.

For the reasons I already stated above...Jesus was more concerned about an individual's soul than a political ideology.

Are there any red words that led you to this belief. That is what I am after.

None that I can think of off-hand. It's more of an entire worldview based on the totality of the scriptures, not just the words of Jesus.

The crowd that you belong to are always dictating and speaking with such authority.

Examples? This sounds like a very general accusation that could mean just about anything.

I am weary of hearing from mans words. I want to hear from the man himself. What kind of a man was he, what did he do and say while he was here. From what I have read, I believe that he showed us how he wanted us to live, by his example.

Jesus said:

"...unless a man be born again, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God"
"I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance"
"...unless you repent, you too will all perish"
"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell"
"I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except by me"
"If anyone is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels"
"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest"

there you go

Please show me just one example of Jesus ever acting like a Conservative

I can't because conservatives are sinners and Jesus never sinned

Your group is not dissimilar from the radical Muslims that have hijacked Islam.

Oh please! That's an outlandish statement.

And I believe that good people like yourself have let themselves be caught up in this perversion of religion.

Perhaps there are those who have equated being Republican with being a Christian. I'm not one of them. "Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world". I try to participate in ministries that help with this, but I must admit that I don't do enough.

Do you think that those suicide bombers are evil ? and are trying to do bad.

yes

Or maybe, they too are just as brainwashed as your crowd.

It took me about 1 1/2 years to make my decision to follow Christ. Trust me, I checked numerous sources. Your claim that we're brainwashed is insulting.

I would argue that they are even more devout and full of faith than the Christan brand of fanatics that we have here at home.

Yep, people can be sincere but also sincerely wrong

If we all would just live by the example that Jesus gave, No longer would this world be so divided. And I have to think that this would bring a smile to HIS beautiful face.
....I would feel honored if I had the power to make him smile. ...YOU ?

Sure, but the whole point of Jesus' earthly ministry was to provide people with a spiritual re-birth if they were willing to accept it through repentance and turn to Him. You and I can try as hard as we want to live up His example...it ain't gonna happen. That's why it's necessary to be born-again spiritually...to cure us of our sin problem.

[bbqpenguin]

ok, how about this? i'll grant you that Jesus was a liberal (with a lower case l) in the broadest sense in that what he preached was against the common ideologies and customs of his time and certainly wasn't at all traditional in actions ( hanging out with those damn tax collectors; where does he get the nerve?!)

I would still argue, however, that he had very few if any of the sentiments that today's Liberals (capital L!) have. can you name any? I don't see anything in there about abortion rights, or a welfare state, or big government, but maybe you can find something. I'm to lazy to go through the trouble of proving he was conservative but if you care to show evidence that he was indeed a Liberal then you'll convince me : )

I have already answered this. My evidence is in EVERY red word in the bible. Do you want me to literally type them all. How about you give me just one that refutes my contention. If you cant do this one simple thing, then you miss the topic of this thread. How many times must I repeat myself. I WANT RED WORDS.

could you give me even one specific little example pretty please?

[OnlyAmbrose]

Jesus was basically apolitical. He basically just said go about your business and give your taxes to The Man, cuz it's not going to matter in the end anyways.

I don't think He'd care one way or the other, socialist or capitalist - he didn't preach to or about governments, he preached to and about people.

Well there are actually also quite a few things that concern people that the gov does.

Right - like tax them. Jesus basically said "just pay your taxes without whining too much - these coins don't really matter in the end anyways."

Insofar as Socialism is based on a flagrant violation of human rights, which Jesus very much believed in, I'd say he'd care. You can't call Jesus completely apolitical without ending up in a self-defeating scenario in which you start having to draw arbitrary lines in the sand. I mean, would Jesus have cared about the Commies coming to power, or about the Nazis? I'd like to think so. Fundamentally, the only system compatible with objective morality is libertarianism. Hence really a foundation of the idea that Jesus was a liberal, in the classical sense. To an extent though, you're right, in that he clearly had concerns for far bigger things.

Jesus said we would be persecuted. Do I think he would approve of Hitler's ethnic cleansing? Of course not, but that's not politics, per se. As far as economic systems (ie socialism) are concerned, I seriously don't think he'd care. You might say that freedom of religion is a "political" tenant which might be important to Jesus, so I suppose Russian "communism" wouldn't be ok with him, but even then I don't think he'd care too much - honestly I think he'd just say "Blessed are those who are persecuted because of me, for theirs is the Kingdom" or something like that.

[Snorri1234]

Jesus was basically apolitical. He basically just said go about your business and give your taxes to The Man, cuz it's not going to matter in the end anyways.

I don't think He'd care one way or the other, socialist or capitalist - he didn't preach to or about governments, he preached to and about people.

Well there are actually also quite a few things that concern people that the gov does.

Right - like tax them. Jesus basically said "just pay your taxes without whining too much - these coins don't really matter in the end anyways."

THE GOVERNMENT DOES NOTHING BUT TAX PEOPLE! WHERE THAT TAX-MONEY GOES NOBODY KNOWS BECAUSE ALL THE GOVERNMENT DOES IS TAX PEOPLE AND THEN JUST SIT AROUND!

Seriously, I'm talking about fighting discrimination, helping poor people, fighting for gay-rights and all that. You know, all the things that have nothing to do with economic policy.

Jesus said we would be persecuted. Do I think he would approve of Hitler's ethnic cleansing? Of course not, but that's not politics, per se. As far as economic systems (ie socialism) are concerned, I seriously don't think he'd care. You might say that freedom of religion is a "political" tenant which might be important to Jesus, so I suppose Russian "communism" wouldn't be ok with him, but even then I don't think he'd care too much - honestly I think he'd just say "Blessed are those who are persecuted because of me, for theirs is the Kingdom" or something like that.

Politics isn't only economics. That's the whole problem with society. He wouldn't care much about the economic side of things, but I'm sure he would care very much about political issues like minority rights and unfair treatment. I know he would never approve of the torture in guantanomo bay, and that's still a political issue.

[OnlyAmbrose]

See but Snorri - the things that Jesus would approve of and the things that Jesus would go through political channels to solve are totally separate issues.

Do you think Jesus approved of the brutal imperialistic rule of the Romans in Jerusalem? Of course not. Did he lead a revolution or advocate for political change in any way? No.

[Snorri1234]

See but Snorri - the things that Jesus would approve of and the things that Jesus would go through political channels to solve are totally separate issues.

Do you think Jesus approved of the brutal imperialistic rule of the Romans in Jerusalem? Of course not. Did he lead a revolution or advocate for political change in any way? No.

I see your point. It's just that I believe what porkenbeans wanted to know is whether Jesus was a liberal in his beliefs. Whether Jesus would actively do anything about it through political means is unimportant, and it's an easy one to answer because he probably wouldn't. (Then again, politics is much easier to get into nowadays as opposed to his time.)

You are entirely correct but you didn't answer pb's question. He doesn't want to know about whether Jesus would've done anything against stuff or whether he cared about politics much, but whether he was actually a liberal. I mean, I don't do much of going through political channels to solve things either, I just vote every 4 years.


I also think that porkenbeans has another purpose with this thread. He is speaking against the highjacking of politics by religious groups. I don't mind people voting for what they believe in, but a dangerous development in the USA lately is that political lobbyists are bringing up too much issues that shouldn't be issues.

[porkenbeans]

I do understand that you may find it ludicrous. But why do you find it ludicrous.

For the reasons I already stated above...Jesus was more concerned about an individual's soul than a political ideology.

Are there any red words that led you to this belief. That is what I am after.

None that I can think of off-hand. It's more of an entire worldview based on the totality of the scriptures, not just the words of Jesus.

The crowd that you belong to are always dictating and speaking with such authority.

Examples? This sounds like a very general accusation that could mean just about anything.

I am weary of hearing from mans words. I want to hear from the man himself. What kind of a man was he, what did he do and say while he was here. From what I have read, I believe that he showed us how he wanted us to live, by his example.

Jesus said:

"...unless a man be born again, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God"
"I have not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance"
"...unless you repent, you too will all perish"
"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell"
"I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one can come to the Father except by me"
"If anyone is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels"
"Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest"

there you go

Please show me just one example of Jesus ever acting like a Conservative

I can't because conservatives are sinners and Jesus never sinned

Your group is not dissimilar from the radical Muslims that have hijacked Islam.

Oh please! That's an outlandish statement.

And I believe that good people like yourself have let themselves be caught up in this perversion of religion.

Perhaps there are those who have equated being Republican with being a Christian. I'm not one of them. "Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world". I try to participate in ministries that help with this, but I must admit that I don't do enough.

Do you think that those suicide bombers are evil ? and are trying to do bad.

yes

Or maybe, they too are just as brainwashed as your crowd.

It took me about 1 1/2 years to make my decision to follow Christ. Trust me, I checked numerous sources. Your claim that we're brainwashed is insulting.

I would argue that they are even more devout and full of faith than the Christan brand of fanatics that we have here at home.

Yep, people can be sincere but also sincerely wrong

If we all would just live by the example that Jesus gave, No longer would this world be so divided. And I have to think that this would bring a smile to HIS beautiful face.
....I would feel honored if I had the power to make him smile. ...YOU ?

Sure, but the whole point of Jesus' earthly ministry was to provide people with a spiritual re-birth if they were willing to accept it through repentance and turn to Him. You and I can try as hard as we want to live up His example...it ain't gonna happen. That's why it's necessary to be born-again spiritually...to cure us of our sin problem.

Finally, some red words But you have NOT explained how any of these quotes are conservative in nature. And you are dead wrong about the suicide bombers wanting to do bad. Quite on the contrary, Their authoritarian religion has told them that it is gods work what they are doing. They have so much faith in that, that they sacrifice there own lives for god. The masses have always been easily brainwashed. For you to take the stance that they are all a bunch of evil monsters, shows to your own brainwashing. I know you to be a kind and giving person. And it is those just like you, that the Cons. prey on. But know this brother, They are the evil ones. Just like their counterparts in Islam. If you want to follow Jesus, all you need do is read the red words. You can toss the rest, along with putting that cons. in front of Christianity. It is in fact an oxymoron. And I cant imagine that Jesus cares too much for being coupled to a word that is the exact opposite of what he is all about.

[mpjh]

freaky

[OnlyAmbrose]

See but Snorri - the things that Jesus would approve of and the things that Jesus would go through political channels to solve are totally separate issues.

Do you think Jesus approved of the brutal imperialistic rule of the Romans in Jerusalem? Of course not. Did he lead a revolution or advocate for political change in any way? No.

I see your point. It's just that I believe what porkenbeans wanted to know is whether Jesus was a liberal in his beliefs. Whether Jesus would actively do anything about it through political means is unimportant, and it's an easy one to answer because he probably wouldn't. (Then again, politics is much easier to get into nowadays as opposed to his time.)

You are entirely correct but you didn't answer pb's question. He doesn't want to know about whether Jesus would've done anything against stuff or whether he cared about politics much, but whether he was actually a liberal. I mean, I don't do much of going through political channels to solve things either, I just vote every 4 years.


I also think that porkenbeans has another purpose with this thread. He is speaking against the highjacking of politics by religious groups. I don't mind people voting for what they believe in, but a dangerous development in the USA lately is that political lobbyists are bringing up too much issues that shouldn't be issues.

Well, I don't know if Jesus would be a "liberal." If Jesus was a liberal then I certainly am a liberal, and as far as I know I'm not a liberal.

Let me explain using economics as an example - I absolutely believe that it is immoral on a lot of levels to be wealthy. Having multiple houses, lavish cars, etc - I find that kind of excess absolutely immoral.

However, I do not believe that the government should FORCE someone to give up that kind of lifestyle. That's why I'm politically conservative, but I suppose you could say that I'm a liberal "at heart."

And that's the point. I don't think Jesus would be liberal OR conservative because I don't think Jesus would care about government intervention in the economy. I think he'd be just like "hey, I don't care what your government says is ok, you'd better not be fantastically wealthy, remember that whole camel / head of a pin thing I was talking about..."


Beyond that, I certainly believe Jesus would frown on capital punishment and torture.

[porkenbeans]

See but Snorri - the things that Jesus would approve of and the things that Jesus would go through political channels to solve are totally separate issues.

Do you think Jesus approved of the brutal imperialistic rule of the Romans in Jerusalem? Of course not. Did he lead a revolution or advocate for political change in any way? No.

I see your point. It's just that I believe what porkenbeans wanted to know is whether Jesus was a liberal in his beliefs. Whether Jesus would actively do anything about it through political means is unimportant, and it's an easy one to answer because he probably wouldn't. (Then again, politics is much easier to get into nowadays as opposed to his time.)

You are entirely correct but you didn't answer pb's question. He doesn't want to know about whether Jesus would've done anything against stuff or whether he cared about politics much, but whether he was actually a liberal. I mean, I don't do much of going through political channels to solve things either, I just vote every 4 years.


I also think that porkenbeans has another purpose with this thread. He is speaking against the highjacking of politics by religious groups. I don't mind people voting for what they believe in, but a dangerous development in the USA lately is that political lobbyists are bringing up too much issues that shouldn't be issues.

Well, I don't know if Jesus would be a "liberal." If Jesus was a liberal then I certainly am a liberal, and as far as I know I'm not a liberal.

Let me explain using economics as an example - I absolutely believe that it is immoral on a lot of levels to be wealthy. Having multiple houses, lavish cars, etc - I find that kind of excess absolutely immoral.

However, I do not believe that the government should FORCE someone to give up that kind of lifestyle. That's why I'm politically conservative, but I suppose you could say that I'm a liberal "at heart."

And that's the point. I don't think Jesus would be liberal OR conservative because I don't think Jesus would care about government intervention in the economy. I think he'd be just like "hey, I don't care what your government says is ok, you'd better not be fantastically wealthy, remember that whole camel / head of a pin thing I was talking about..."


Beyond that, I certainly believe Jesus would frown on capital punishment and torture.

Semper Fi.

[luns101]

Pork, I actually have no idea what you're talking about in your previous posts. I even said I couldn't provide you with any "red words" from Jesus.

[Snorri1234]

Well, I don't know if Jesus would be a "liberal." If Jesus was a liberal then I certainly am a liberal, and as far as I know I'm not a liberal.

Let me explain using economics as an example - I absolutely believe that it is immoral on a lot of levels to be wealthy. Having multiple houses, lavish cars, etc - I find that kind of excess absolutely immoral.

However, I do not believe that the government should FORCE someone to give up that kind of lifestyle. That's why I'm politically conservative, but I suppose you could say that I'm a liberal "at heart."

Well yes, I don't think the government should do those things either.

And that's the point. I don't think Jesus would be liberal OR conservative because I don't think Jesus would care about government intervention in the economy. I think he'd be just like "hey, I don't care what your government says is ok, you'd better not be fantastically wealthy, remember that whole camel / head of a pin thing I was talking about..."


Beyond that, I certainly believe Jesus would frown on capital punishment and torture.

But economy vs. the government isn't the only thing about politics. I think that Jesus would be a social liberal, in that he would share a lot of social policies of the liberal part of your country. (i.e. no capital punishment, no treating people like shit for stupid reasons, no torture and all that) It would be save to say that he wouldn't be an economic liberal or conservative because he would not care much about it. He would believe that helping the poor and downtrodden is important, but I think he would say it is a responsibility of the believers to give charity to those people.


Then again, I don't know if Jesus would approve of most churches. Certainly he would approve of the fact that they teach the message of god, but whether he would approve of a church paying 20 million dollars to make a church bigger is doubtfull.

[Ditocoaf]

In Jesus's time, normal people didn't have the ability to shape public policy like they do now...

[CrazyAnglican]

Hi Porky,

You know I like playing with the idea. Disclaimer up front Jesus was neither truly liberal nor conservative. He was not really about political platforms, and both parties (to some extent) build their platforms on his teachings because they are so prevalent in our society. Therefore a case could easily be made for either conservative or liberal leanings in his teachings. Since you assert he was liberal, I'll play devil's advocate and focus on some of his teachings that liberal's might not like so much.




In terms of the liberal slogan (bumpersticker) I've seen a lot "Envision World Peace"

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword" Matthew 10:34 NIV



Secular education:

"If any of you put a stumbling block before one of these little ones who believe in me, it would be better for you if you had a millstone fastened around your neck and you were drowned in the sea" Matthew 18:6 NRS



Taxation (redistribution of wealth) He's seems like a libertarian here

"'Friend I am not being unfair to you. Didn't you agree to work for a denarius? Take your pay and go. I want to pay the man who was hired last the same as I gave you. Don't I have the right to do what I want with my own money, or are you just envious because I am generous?" Matthew 20:15

[OnlyAmbrose]

In Jesus's time, normal people didn't have the ability to shape public policy like they do now...

The Jews were quite politically active to the extent that they revolted several times. A lot of them were expecting the Messiah to be some political/revolutionary leader who would free them from the Roman yoke. People on the street were VERY politically active, which is why many were disappointed with Jesus' message and rejected that he could be the messiah because he certainly wasn't after any sort of "kingship" in any way that they understood the word.

[Nobunaga]

Hi Porky,

You know I like playing with the idea. Disclaimer up front Jesus was neither truly liberal nor conservative. He was not really about political platforms, and both parties (to some extent) build their platforms on his teachings because they are so prevalent in our society. Therefore a case could easily be made for either conservative or liberal leanings in his teachings. Since you assert he was liberal, I'll play devil's advocate and focus on some of his teachings that liberal's might not like so much.




In terms of the liberal slogan (bumpersticker) I've seen a lot "Envision World Peace"

"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword" Matthew 10:34 NIV



Secular education:

"If any of you put a stumbling block before one of these little ones who believe in me, it would be better for you if you had a millstone fastened around your neck and you were drowned in the sea" Matthew 18:6 NRS



Taxation (redistribution of wealth) He's seems like a libertarian here

"'Friend I am not being unfair to you. Didn't you agree to work for a denarius? Take your pay and go. I want to pay the man who was hired last the same as I gave you. Don't I have the right to do what I want with my own money, or are you just envious because I am generous?" Matthew 20:15

... I cleaned that up for you, Crazy. The man can't see it if it isn't RED LETTERS.

...

[Gregrios]

Would someone care to explain what the "big" difference is between liberal and conservitive? If there's really any difference.

[Napoleon Ier]

Jesus was basically apolitical. He basically just said go about your business and give your taxes to The Man, cuz it's not going to matter in the end anyways.

I don't think He'd care one way or the other, socialist or capitalist - he didn't preach to or about governments, he preached to and about people.

Well there are actually also quite a few things that concern people that the gov does.

Right - like tax them. Jesus basically said "just pay your taxes without whining too much - these coins don't really matter in the end anyways."

Insofar as Socialism is based on a flagrant violation of human rights, which Jesus very much believed in, I'd say he'd care. You can't call Jesus completely apolitical without ending up in a self-defeating scenario in which you start having to draw arbitrary lines in the sand. I mean, would Jesus have cared about the Commies coming to power, or about the Nazis? I'd like to think so. Fundamentally, the only system compatible with objective morality is libertarianism. Hence really a foundation of the idea that Jesus was a liberal, in the classical sense. To an extent though, you're right, in that he clearly had concerns for far bigger things.

Jesus said we would be persecuted. Do I think he would approve of Hitler's ethnic cleansing? Of course not, but that's not politics, per se. As far as economic systems (ie socialism) are concerned, I seriously don't think he'd care. You might say that freedom of religion is a "political" tenant which might be important to Jesus, so I suppose Russian "communism" wouldn't be ok with him, but even then I don't think he'd care too much - honestly I think he'd just say "Blessed are those who are persecuted because of me, for theirs is the Kingdom" or something like that.

Hmm...but as I say, you end up drawing these rather arbitrary lines in the sand based on human constructs like an idea of "politics" to see what Jesus would and would not have cared about. Ethnic cleansing doesn't really seem like politics to you and me because it's too far removed from what we experience in today's scene, but it was very much a topic clearly in 30s Germany, or some watered-down measure thereof, just like slavery was in the 19th Century, or even abortion today, something Jesus probably very much cares about.

Politics is just how a country is governed, the running of the πολἰς, and I reckon Jesus probably would have cared a lot as to whether people subjugated others to themselves or not under something like national or pure socialism, which essentially is committing acts of wanton violence against your fellow man: something Jesus clearly denounced.

Obviously though, his concerns extend far beyond that sphere: I just don't know how far it's far to say he "didn't care".

[Napoleon Ier]

Would someone care to explain what the "big" difference is between liberal and conservitive? If there's really any difference.

It doesn't help that in the Anglo-Saxon world, the labels are confused so that liberals (or believers in minimalist government and laissez faire negative-freedom based libertarianism) get called conservative, whilst socialists and social democrats appropriate the label of "liberal", in what Josef Schumpeter calls "a supreme if unintended compliment from the very enemies of freedom".

[joecoolfrog]

See but Snorri - the things that Jesus would approve of and the things that Jesus would go through political channels to solve are totally separate issues.

Do you think Jesus approved of the brutal imperialistic rule of the Romans in Jerusalem? Of course not. Did he lead a revolution or advocate for political change in any way? No.

Religion and politics go hand in hand, it was no different in the time of Jesus, of course he was advocating political and social change.