Jamaica

[cairnswk]

In the inset map, you're missing a border between Stony Hill and Gordon Town.

Has this been mentioned already? Or, are you still figuring out the gameplay in regards to this detail?

i don 't think that it matters that much, i mean those names are just there so people can find where the inset map actually is on the real map, the border i feel is not such a big deal

ah yes it does matter a great deal...because it shows that Newtown can attack into both Gordon T own and Stony Hills

[cairnswk]

....
Yes, you are right (i think).
One idea that could maybe fix that, is if the ports, that the home ports have to attack to go anywhere, started with like eight, and then that would force the players to wait to the second or third round to attack, even with the auto-deploy

hope that helps
tlane

Yep that helps...good thinking, and along with the below, we're getting somewhere to sort this out.
Prob with this one, is that it fine for GH and PM, but the other ports all border each other....

....
For one, I think the auto-deploy — which is a good idea — should only be two and should be limited to the ships. From there, somewhere from 4-7 neutrals on the ports seem fine; 3+2+3=7 max, and in a large game 7v4-7is way too much of a gamble.

OK...will the auto-deploy arrive on the first turn?
'Coz if player 1 starts with the normal 3 armies start + 2 auto-deploy, then that kinda wipes out anything we're trying to build on the neutral status of the ports, doesn't it?

For now, i've made the ports 7 neutrals and 4 for GH and PM. See how that works. Might need tweaking, though.

For below....with coastal slaves....we need something that can attack the ships so they can be killed off in any game.

The problem I see comes after that, where you say "Coastal slaves can attack ships). That's fine and all, but I suggest you keep the coastal slaves non-adjacent to the ports. From Liverpool, e.g., St. Anne's Bay to Dry Harbor, which has a slave, is only relatively good dice from eliminating any player across the board. This also takes away the problem of more neutrals on ports, as the slaves are still 3 and for Liverpool the same amount of territories but 1-3 less neutrals to beat. So, I say either/both keep the slaves away from the coast and/or make them 4 neutrals.

OK, slaves removed from Dry Harbour and that given Bumbo (between two sugar plantations).

That leads to the other point, which is the disadvantage given to London. The nearest slave is 3 territories minimum away from the Port, while all other ships only have to go through 1-2.

OK. Slaves swapped to Kingston Harbour, and Greenwich Town now has Fish.

And i thing i'm going to have to work on this coastal slaves a little more.
Back soon.

[cairnswk]

Version 9 below.
1. added another tert called Bluefield (used to be a base for Pirate Henry Morgan)
2. changed "slaves attack...." in the legend. wording needs attention though.

[cairnswk]

further comments?

[manstrong]

Where is Port Royal located? And why do some ports have 7 and some have 4/0? Just wondering as I try to understand.

[cairnswk]

Where is Port Royal located? And why do some ports have 7 and some have 4/0? Just wondering as I try to understand.

manstrong...can you read back through the thread a couple of pages please...it's all there.

[aequitas08]

First off this map has come a long way and that is great.
There have been a lot of comments about the London being weaker then the other ships as a starting position, however as i see it there are only 3 forts (which attack Pirate ships) and they are all close to the London. Does this not give the player who controls the London a large advantage over the Pirates?
Now i am not usually an advocate of "bombardment" but for Pirates the tactic just makes sense, also it would provide a defense against the forts without giving the players in Pirate ships extra troop movement.

(perhaps this came up earlier i only read from page 5)
-aequitas08

[MrBenn]

This map has reached (and surpassed) the criteria for a working draft, and deserving of a stamp:


Welcome to the foundry proper... Onwards and upwards!

[LED ZEPPELINER]

This map has reached (and surpassed) the criteria for a working draft, and deserving of a stamp:


Welcome to the foundry proper... Onwards and upwards!

congrants cairns

[cairnswk]

Current Version 9 below.

First off this map has come a long way and that is great.
There have been a lot of comments about the London being weaker then the other ships as a starting position, however as i see it there are only 3 forts (which attack Pirate ships) and they are all close to the London. Does this not give the player who controls the London a large advantage over the Pirates?

Yes, can you suggest something alternate to this.
The reason that I have placed London Ship there is because it is eventually the British from London who ruled Jamaica for so long.

Now i am not usually an advocate of "bombardment" but for Pirates the tactic just makes sense, also it would provide a defense against the forts without giving the players in Pirate ships extra troop movement.
(perhaps this came up earlier i only read from page 5)
-aequitas08

OK. thanks aequitas08

This map has reached (and surpassed) the criteria for a working draft, and deserving of a stamp:


Welcome to the foundry proper... Onwards and upwards!

Thanks for stamp Mr Benn.

congrants cairns

Thanks LZ.

[yeti_c]

This looks like a "Privates of the caribbean" map - rather than a Jamaica map?!

C.

[cairnswk]

C.... you're spoiling it!

[yeti_c]

C.... you're spoiling it!

Sorry!!

Perhaps a change of name might surfice?

"Pirates"?

C.

[cairnswk]

C.... you're spoiling it!

Sorry!!

Perhaps a change of name might surfice?

"Pirates"?

C.

C....I wanted to fill the J spot in the alphabet with this one...and since there are only three pirate starting positions and the basis of the map is the early colonial history of Jamaica using it's grown resources, slaves and rebels, i think the title is entirely appropriate.

[yeti_c]

C....I wanted to fill the J spot in the alphabet with this one...and since there are only three pirate starting positions and the basis of the map is the early colonial history of Jamaica using it's grown resources, slaves and rebels, i think the title is entirely appropriate.

Fair enough - I'll leave you to it then...

C.

[cairnswk]

C....I wanted to fill the J spot in the alphabet with this one...and since there are only three pirate starting positions and the basis of the map is the early colonial history of Jamaica using it's grown resources, slaves and rebels, i think the title is entirely appropriate.

Fair enough - I'll leave you to it then...

C.

Comments on gameplay

[sailorseal]

Maybe in the legend make it instead of 1 slave + 1 cattle
1 +1 =+5 bonus or something along those lines to incorporate the symbols.

Spain would have a major advantage do to the fact it is the farthest from the other starting positions. Maybe try and equalize the distance a little or increase the size of the neutrals in between them. I am not sure where London connects to because in the legend for Port Royal it is not mentioned. I would like to see the river color match the water color. I would also like to see an auto deploy on each ship and maybe some other auto deploy bonuses. Maybe more mountains?

Great map!

[The Neon Peon]

Suggestion: ports do not connect

Why would I go for a bonus if the person right next to me will simply take me along with that bonus?

This would mean that there are simply more territories between people and that people would actually venture into the map without the fear that the people on their sides will take them out after you weaken yourself on neutrals.

[sailorseal]

Suggestion: ports do not connect

Why would I go for a bonus if the person right next to me will simply take me along with that bonus?

This would mean that there are simply more territories between people and that people would actually venture into the map without the fear that the people on their sides will take them out after you weaken yourself on neutrals.

In a sense I agree, the starting positions in my opinion are to easily reached from one another

[captainwalrus]

What is the "gold" that it talks about in the bonus description. It doesn't mention it in the resourse descriptions. Either that or I'm pretty stupid and it is probably just right there on the map, but if it is, please tell me.

[cairnswk]

What is the "gold" that it talks about in the bonus description. It doesn't mention it in the resourse descriptions. Either that or I'm pretty stupid and it is probably just right there on the map, but if it is, please tell me.

Cobs?

[cairnswk]

Maybe in the legend make it instead of 1 slave + 1 cattle
1 +1 =+5 bonus or something along those lines to incorporate the symbols.

OK that is a graphic thing, can you remind me about it later please.

Spain would have a major advantage do to the fact it is the farthest from the other starting positions. Maybe try and equalize the distance a little or increase the size of the neutrals in between them.

Not sure what you mean here.

I am not sure where London connects to because in the legend for Port Royal it is not mentioned.

Fixed on version 10

I would also like to see an auto deploy on each ship and maybe some other auto deploy bonuses.

Can you explain why please.

I would like to see the river color match the water color. ... Maybe more mountains?

Graphic thing...please remind me again later.

Suggestion: ports do not connect

Why would I go for a bonus if the person right next to me will simply take me along with that bonus?

This would mean that there are simply more territories between people and that people would actually venture into the map without the fear that the people on their sides will take them out after you weaken yourself on neutrals.

In a sense I agree, the starting positions in my opinion are to easily reached from one another

Between port routes removed in version 10.
I'm not really happy with this as it makes sense that ships can move between the ports.
I guess now also, the notation that forts can attack pirates will have to be removed, because the pirates can only attack their home ports.
Also, pirates not being able to attack the colonials doesn't make sense.

Suggestion: What if we put all the port routes back and the pirate/fort attack routes, and made the home ports starting positions also, so that on your very first turn, nobody can attack you anyways, and you get a chance to fort to your home port from your ship to give you extra armies when someone tries to attack you.

We could also have any tert that is not a coastal one start in random drop.

Anyways, version 10 is below to show what the map looks like without the port-port attack routes.

[sailorseal]

Spain would have a major advantage do to the fact it is the farthest from the other starting positions. Maybe try and equalize the distance a little or increase the size of the neutrals in between them.

Not sure what you mean here.
Spain has the most number of territs in between it and the other ships. This gives the player a bigger shield of nuetrals and they can spread out further with less worry of attack

I would also like to see an auto deploy on each ship and maybe some other auto deploy bonuses.

Can you explain why please.
If all the territories start neutral, like The Age of realms Maps and Feudal War I think it should also have an auto deploy because the ship is sort of each players "home base" and it should be the hardest thing to take from them

[cairnswk]

...
Spain has the most number of territs in between it and the other ships. This gives the player a bigger shield of nuetrals and they can spread out further with less worry of attack

OK let's analyse this after the sea routes have been taken away.

Spain to Henry Morgan: 8
Spain to Calico Jack: 6
Spain to Liverpool: 7
Spain to Blackbeard: 7
Spain to Bristol: 10
Spain to France: 10
Spain to London: 13
Liverpool to Henry Morgan: 7
Liverpool to Calico Jack: 6
Liverpool to Blackbeard: 5
Liverpool to London: 10
Liverpool to Bristol: 6
Liverpool to France: 6
France to London: 7
France to Blackbeard: 7
France to Calico Jack: 9
France to Henry Morgan: 11
London to Henry Morgan: 15

From the above data, Spain is only as close as her nearest neighbours, but LIverpool to Blackbeard is closest going across the island. I wouldn't say Spain has any more advantage begin far distant from certain terts than they are from others.

I would also like to see an auto deploy on each ship and maybe some other auto deploy bonuses.

Can you explain why please.
If all the territories start neutral, like The Age of realms Maps and Feudal War I think it should also have an auto deploy because the ship is sort of each players "home base" and it should be the hardest thing to take from them

[/quote]
OK, let's see what others think of this also.

[Teflon Kris]

Forgive me if this has been clariied earlier but, do players gain the ordinary +3 per turn (minimum)? Is it envisaged that players take a port on their second turn (unless they try their luck with 6 against 7)? I think this is where the ship auto-deploy might be worth considering perhaps?

Regarding London's position, it looks to have a mix of advantages and disadvantages - further to attack other players which also means other players have to go further to attack London, although there seem to be more slaves able to attack London, so, in the short term, easy to defend, in the long term, harder to defend. Differences are valid anyway: in spread 'drop' games, different drops give different advantages and in many starting position games, each have different geography (e.g.New World). Having perfectly equal starting points might appeal to feudal war-sters but is not necessary for a good game. Looking at the above analysis, London's position is different and any advantage/disadvantage is minor.

Overall, it looks like the gameplay has a nice blend of starting position strategy and resource-bonuses.

I like the incorporation of the political and economic features, the map is certainly more than the link suggested above.