[GP] Change FLAT RATE bonuses

[j35t3r.us]

Concise description:
Changing Flat Rate spoils bonus hand-in from 4/6/8/10 to 6/10

Specifics:
Current flat rate spoils hand-in bonuses are:
3 Red Spoils = 4 bonus units
3 Green Spoils = 6 bonus units
3 Blue Spoils = 8 bonus units
1 of Each Spoil = 10 bonus units

My suggestion is to eliminate another huge chunk of LUCK from a SKILL-based game. How many times have you all been sitting on 3 red cards for 3 turns thinking... This sucks. Meanwhile someone has 3 blue cards, or 3 green cards. Both of which are just as common as the red cards you hold, and they get more guys for no reason except luck...

I say make ALL flat rate spoil hand-ins worth 6 troops unless you have 1 of each color spoil, which is worth 10 troops. This really makes a difference when it comes to 3rd turn handins, or saving your cards for the chance to get 1 of each color, etc etc...


This will improve the following aspects of the site:
-Less luck when it comes to which cards you are dealt.
-No more "crap I have red cards - he has blue cards" stuff

[MOD EDIT: For a related suggestion that would set spoils turn-ins of all types to a single value, see here --agentcom]

[Theguyoverthere]

I actually kind of like this idea.

[lgoasklucyl]

I like this as well, actually.

Nothing quite like having 2 red and a green as the opponent cashes for 13 then hitting 2 pair.....

[dhallmeyer]

I like this too. I can never remember which is which, just hoping for a mixed set.

[e_i_pi]

The chances of having a mixed is the same as the chances of having a coloured set you know

[Woodruff]

The chances of having a mixed is the same as the chances of having a coloured set you know

Which precisely supports why they shouldn't be worth more.

[a.sub]

i agree with this too, except i think instead of making it so that its all the same its just similar
like
Red 7
Blue 8
Green 9
Mixed 10

[Joodoo]

The chances of having a mixed is the same as the chances of having a coloured set you know

then we should make all of the sets worth 10 armies / 8 armies

[e_i_pi]

The chances of having a mixed is the same as the chances of having a coloured set you know

then we should make all of the sets worth 10 armies / 8 armies

That's what I mean.

RRR: 6 armies
GGG: 6 armies
BBB: 6 armies
RGB: 10 armies

is exactly the same as

RRR: 10 armies
GGG: 6 armies
BBB: 6 armies
RGB: 6 armies

statistically

[Timminz]

I was under the impression that mixed sets were actually more likely than any of the single-coloured ones. Maybe I just read someone wrong before.

Regardless, if you want to remove the luck aspect from flat rate, don't play it. That is to say that it is the most luck-oriented card setting, and there are 2 other options that remove that luck aspect from the game.

[owenshooter]

if you want to remove the luck factor from flat rate, then don't play flat rate. there are other settings, as was stated by timminz above, that do this. i hate cards, and generally only play no card games... anyway, just change the type of game you play, and you'll maybe find yourself enjoying CC once again...-0

p.s.-one interesting thing about playing different types of settings is the different set of people you notice in those worlds...

[Kotaro]

If you don't like luck, play a different game.

[Optimus Prime]

I happen to like my flat rate spoils just the way they are to be honest. No need to go fixing something that isn't broken.

[j35t3r.us]

Thats what? 7 for and 3 against. More replies please.

As stated above, cards have the same chances to be drawn but are worth different amounts. This is bad math. Make it more rare for the higher handins, makes no sense to have higher handins same probability as lower handins. I mean heck... Flat rate means FLAT RATE, not different rates!

Also noted above, "pick a different option" if you don't want luck. Ok, so there are two other options. NO CARDS, and ESCALATING.

No cards = all dice, no surprises.
Excalating = Fair, and Balanced. Cards are worth same amount because they all have the same probability to be drawn and are worth the same.


then:

Flat Rate = For those that don't want to play a game where it is STRICTLY about handins(aka escalating), but still want that early game(turns 1-15 or so) fun of cashing in or getting cashed in on.

All three versions should be equally as fun. And they are. Except Flat Rate is the only Spoils option that doesn't make sense.

This isn't about switching the way I play. I play them all. This is about making the site/system fair to all. If one version of what I play seems more skewed than the other versions I play, I might as well report it and see what others think. And so far (judging by the replies), others feel the same way.



This needs to be looked into more. There are multiple replies above stating flat rate should be changed, and different amount to consider. I want more replies to this, maybe even a poll, and have this idea/suggestion(or even BUG if you call it that) looked into more, and even considered for change.


I like the 8 units and 10 unit idea personally.

[a.sub]

actually i wnaan change my vote to against as i like the luck aspect

[GenuineEarlGrey]

if you want to remove the luck factor from flat rate, then don't play flat rate.

....or even avoid playing flat rate on small maps

[cicero]

I happen to like my flat rate spoils just the way they are to be honest. No need to go fixing something that isn't broken.

My secretary already typed my response.

[KernowWarrior]

I like the Flat Rate bonuses as they are. Could introduce another card selection option for players who dont. Flat rate Original (RRR=4/GGG=6/BBB=8/RGB=10) and Flat Rate lite (all sets of 3, RRR GGG BBB RGB = 10)

[iambligh]

what about 20 for a full-house?

[Woodruff]

Thats what? 7 for and 3 against. More replies please.
As stated above, cards have the same chances to be drawn but are worth different amounts. This is bad math. Make it more rare for the higher handins, makes no sense to have higher handins same probability as lower handins. I mean heck... Flat rate means FLAT RATE, not different rates!

In...that game we all love that brought us here..."flat rate" doesn't even mean any of the above, you may recall. That's really how we should probably go for flat rate.

[oVo]

what about 20 for a full-house?

Players with an upper case v in their name should probably get a fresh 20 armies for all sets cashed in.

I like the setup as it is too and feel that escalating set option is there to pick up the slack.

[Kotaro]

I happen to like my flat rate spoils just the way they are to be honest. No need to go fixing something that isn't broken.

[PLAYER57832]

I like it just the way it is. That's why there are OPTIONS in CC... so you can play what you like.

If you don't like Flat Rate, don't play it!

That said, maybe there is room for a fourth option... without eliminated the current Flat rate?

[lancehoch]

The chances of having a mixed is the same as the chances of having a coloured set you know

then we should make all of the sets worth 10 armies / 8 armies

That's what I mean.

RRR: 6 armies
GGG: 6 armies
BBB: 6 armies
RGB: 10 armies

is exactly the same as

RRR: 10 armies
GGG: 6 armies
BBB: 6 armies
RGB: 6 armies

statistically

pi, that is not true.
Subject: 10 army sets... are these common to turn in repeatedly?

To answer the question from the thread title, actually mixed sets are more common than any single instance of a single colored set:
3 cards: 27 possibilities- 1/27 red, 1/27 green, 1/27 blue, 6/27 mixed, 18/27 no set
4 cards: 81 possibilities- 9/81 red, 9/81 green, 9/81 blue, 36/81 mixed, 18/81 no set
5 cards (note you can have a mixed set and a plain color set, I am counting these as mixed): 243 possibilities- 31/243 red, 31/243 green, 31/243 blue, 150/243 mixed, 0/243 no set

in percentages (mixed only):
3 cards: 22.22%
4 cards: 44.44%
5 cards: 61.73%

So to answer your question, yes it is very common to get a mixed set.

More in depth analysis for the 5 card situations:
only red: 31/243
only green: 31/243
only blue: 31/243
only mixed: 90/243
red and mixed: 20/243
green and mixed: 20/243
blue and mixed: 20/243

totals:
red: 51/243
green: 51/243
blue: 51/243
mixed: 150/243

What I would suggest is (if there is to be a change) actually changing the values to mixed = 4 and red/green/blue = 10.

[ahunda]

As we all know, CC is derived from a popular board game, and the cash rules for Flat Rate are taken 1:1 from the rules of this board game. Changing the cash values would certainly upset all Flat Rate fans, who have been playing the board game for a long time, before coming to CC.

Whilst the standard setting in the original rules of the board game in the USA was Escalating (with Flat Rate being introduced in later versions as an alternative option), in Europe the standard always was Flat Rate. So especially the Europeans are used to the 10,8,6,4 rule as it is.

Now I don´t mind much, since I rarely (almost never) play Flat Rate, but I think changing the cash values is a really bad idea, for the mentioned reasons. Maybe suggest an additional / new Game Type with different cash values. Then again ... I really don´t care ...