Continuation of Christianity debate.

manicman · Post by **manicman** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:32 pm

While I've given up on debate based on the logic of theology since Christains argue in circles I'm still waiting for actual evidence that the bible is true.
Did Jesus ever do any miracles that are historically validated?

P Gizzle · Post by **P Gizzle** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 12:39 pm

morph wrote:i come to things like this to call on the all mighty powers of p grizzle to kill threads and to get my post count up... aaannnnd before i leave

ALL MIGHTY P GRIZZLE HEAR THIS PLEA, YOU ARE THE ONE TRUE THREAD KILLER, PLEASE COME AND STOP THIS THREAD FROM GOING FORTH AND BECOMING EVEN MORE RETARDED AND STUPID.....*bows and does ritual dance to bring forth da P Grizzle*

BOW BEFORE THE MIGHTY WRATH THAT IS P G(R)IZZLE!!! I AM HERE TO KILL THIS THREAD SO THAT IT MAY GO TO THREAD HELL!!!!

ok, seriously guys, move this to the flame wars, all we are doin is flaming the other religion (or lack of) because we don't understand it......what's the point? really?

on a side note, discuss how God is actually a Seahawks fan.......

thank you

:poof:

MUAHAHAHAHAHAH!

MeDeFe · Post by **MeDeFe** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:25 pm

I like ospreys, too, beautiful animals.

Stopper · Post by **Stopper** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:40 pm

manicman wrote:While I've given up on debate based on the logic of theology since Christains argue in circles I'm still waiting for actual evidence that the bible is true.
Did Jesus ever do any miracles that are historically validated?

Yes, someone caught the whole "water-into-wine" spectacular on their camera phone, apparently. I do believe it's on YouTube.

MeDeFe · Post by **MeDeFe** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:46 pm

Got a link?

P Gizzle · Post by **P Gizzle** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 2:47 pm

MeDeFe wrote:I like ospreys, too, beautiful animals.

indeed.....that's why god loves them

Stopper · Post by **Stopper** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 3:29 pm

MeDeFe wrote:Got a link?

Yeah, here. I know Jesus looks a bit different from what you might expect, but I think he had a hangover at the time.

MeDeFe · Post by **MeDeFe** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:24 pm

That wine had a strange colour, though.

P Gizzle · Post by **P Gizzle** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:24 pm

more like fruit punch if you ask me

MeDeFe · Post by **MeDeFe** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:27 pm

Yeah, but still, fruit punch > water

P Gizzle · Post by **P Gizzle** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:30 pm

i don't like fruit punch, too bitter, and to me it tastes like CRAP!

so

Soda>Water>Fruit Punch=CRAP!

MeDeFe · Post by **MeDeFe** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:34 pm

Not if you want to get drunk.

P Gizzle · Post by **P Gizzle** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:35 pm

true, true, very true. i still don't like fruit punch

MeDeFe · Post by **MeDeFe** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:37 pm

And Jesus DID look a little drunk in that video...

Stopper · Post by **Stopper** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 4:58 pm

Fruit punch? It looked like some kind of rosé to me, so clearly Jesus has good taste. More proof that the man in the video is, indeed, the Lord.

No need for any more theological arguments! The Christians win! Boo!

Backglass · Post by **Backglass** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:03 pm

manicman wrote:I'm still waiting for actual evidence that the bible is true.

Of course it's true! How do they know? Because the bible says it's true!

manicman wrote:Did Jesus ever do any miracles that are historically validated?

Of course he did! All are validated in the bible! We know this because the bible is true! (see above).

MR. Nate · Post by **MR. Nate** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:34 pm

Most of the time, the fact that an ancient work has a large number of copies, and claims to be true, and was written within the lifetime of the people that actually experianced it is enough to carry serious weight. Not so in the case of the Bible however, because it demands something back. Does it strike you at all odd that the 1st heresies Christians had to deal with were claims that Christ wasn't HUMAN? not that he wasn't God, that was pretty much given. People argued that He wasn't human. Anyone care to comment on that?

On the side note. God is clearly not a seahawks fan. The evidence is much better for his being a steelers fan (the immaculate reception)

I do know this: The Detroit Lions have no fans in the spirit realm at all. Even Satan is bored with their mediocrity.

P Gizzle · Post by **P Gizzle** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 5:38 pm

MR. Nate wrote:On the side note. God is clearly not a seahawks fan. The evidence is much better for his being a steelers fan (the immaculate reception) I do know this: The Detroit Lions have no fans in the spirit realm at all. Even Satan is bored with their mediocrity.

did you watch the Seahawks vs. KC Chiefs game? he is CLEARLY a Hawks fan.....first, we get the ball back a billion times, after being down by what, 20 points? then Deion Branch STRIPS the ball after he got INT'd. the only thing that stopped them from winning, was the Seahawks themselves......

and if god was a steelers fan, then i wouldn't know who Satan cheers for...

MeDeFe · Post by **MeDeFe** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 6:55 pm

Nah, that wasn't rosé wine, that's sort of translucent... slightly.

Stopper · Post by **Stopper** » Sat Feb 03, 2007 9:30 pm

MeDeFe wrote:Nah, that wasn't rosé wine, that's sort of translucent... slightly.

Are you questioning the word of the (apparently Filipino) Lord?

We have video evidence, and already a schism looms. This religion business is hard work.

thelewis · Post by **thelewis** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 4:08 am

And this is what I was after:
"After the missionary explained the Bible's superior civilized plan of salvation to several natives, one of them stood and said, "Like you, we love our gods and seek to love one another. What we do not understand is why your god tried to pin down sin by using His son as a voodoo doll."
Anon

genius

MeDeFe · Post by **MeDeFe** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 7:48 am

So now you're claiming to be god incarnate. Hey, someone get a straitjacket for Stopper!

heavycola · Post by **heavycola** » Sun Feb 04, 2007 3:36 pm

MR. Nate wrote:Most of the time, the fact that an ancient work has a large number of copies, and claims to be true, and was written within the lifetime of the people that actually experianced it is enough to carry serious weight. Not so in the case of the Bible however, because it demands something back. Does it strike you at all odd that the 1st heresies Christians had to deal with were claims that Christ wasn't HUMAN? not that he wasn't God, that was pretty much given. People argued that He wasn't human. Anyone care to comment on that?

Why, yes

A few jews start to think jesus might be the messiah. He rides into jerusalem and starts espousing a new philosophy. The jews are waiting for a warrior, by the way, a messiah to come and challenge the romans and free teh jews, basically.
Instead, jesus is executed like a common criminal. This does not compute - so for teh 30 years after his death, the mythology of the blood atonement/resurrection etc grows as a way to reconcile his death with jewish messianic expectations.
30 years after his death the gospels are written, filled with the myths that had sprung up around jesus. Voila.

nunz · Post by **nunz** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 1:53 am

heavycola wrote:
MR. Nate wrote:Most of the time, the fact that an ancient work has a large number of copies, .... Does it strike you at all odd that the 1st heresies Christians had to deal with were claims that Christ wasn't HUMAN? not that he wasn't God, that was pretty much given. People argued that He wasn't human. Anyone care to comment on that?
Why, yes

A few jews start to think jesus might be the messiah. He rides into jerusalem and starts espousing a new philosophy. The jews are waiting for a warrior, by the way, a messiah to come and challenge the romans and free teh jews, basically.
Instead, jesus is executed like a common criminal. This does not compute - so for teh 30 years after his death, the mythology of the blood atonement/resurrection etc grows as a way to reconcile his death with jewish messianic expectations.
30 years after his death the gospels are written, filled with the myths that had sprung up around jesus. Voila.

There is a problem with your logic .... the jews never accepted Jesus as messiah so this doesn't make sense as it didn't happen. To jewish Christian believers he was The Messiah but not the jewsih messiah .... blood atonement was never part of the messianic dream or expectations for Jews. They are still waiting.

Also to the non-jewish believer there is no messianic expectation. To them He was presented as The Word become flesh (John 1) Again he was presented as God, not as human as 'The Word' was part of a gentile spiritual belief.

jay_a2j · Post by **jay_a2j** » Wed Feb 28, 2007 2:25 am

heavycola wrote:
MR. Nate wrote:Most of the time, the fact that an ancient work has a large number of copies, and claims to be true, and was written within the lifetime of the people that actually experianced it is enough to carry serious weight. Not so in the case of the Bible however, because it demands something back. Does it strike you at all odd that the 1st heresies Christians had to deal with were claims that Christ wasn't HUMAN? not that he wasn't God, that was pretty much given. People argued that He wasn't human. Anyone care to comment on that?
Why, yes

A few jews start to think jesus might be the messiah. He rides into jerusalem and starts espousing a new philosophy. The jews are waiting for a warrior, by the way, a messiah to come and challenge the romans and free teh jews, basically.
Instead, jesus is executed like a common criminal. This does not compute - so for teh 30 years after his death, the mythology of the blood atonement/resurrection etc grows as a way to reconcile his death with jewish messianic expectations.
30 years after his death the gospels are written, filled with the myths that had sprung up around jesus. Voila.

But when Jesus comes back, He will come as a warrior. You are right, the Jews did expect the messiah to come as a warrior... which is to come.