57% Tax Rate

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GabonX
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57% Tax Rate

Post by GabonX »

Have fun playing Robin Hood New York.
Congressional plans to fund a massive health-care overhaul could have a job-killing effect on New York, creating a tax rate of nearly 60 percent for the state's top earners and possibly pressuring small-business owners to shed workers.

New York's top income bracket could reach as high as 57 percent -- rates not seen in three decades -- to pay for the massive health coverage proposed by House Democrats this week.

The top rate in New York City, home to many of the state's wealthiest people, would be 58.68 percent, the Washington-based Tax Foundation said in a report yesterday.

That means New York's top earners, small-business owners and most dynamic entrepreneurs will be facing new fees and penalties.

The $544 billion tax hike would violate one of President Obama's ironclad campaign promises: No family will pay higher tax rates than they would have paid in the 1990s.

Under the bill, three new tax brackets would be created for high earners, with a top rate of 45 percent for families making more than $1 million. That would be the highest income-tax rate since 1986, when the top rate was 50 percent.

The legislation is especially onerous for business owners, in part because it penalizes employers with a payroll bigger than $400,000 some 8 percent of wages if they don't offer health care.

But the cost of the buy-in to the program may be so prohibitive that it will dissuade owners from growing their businesses -- a scary prospect in the midst of a recession.

Obama took to the airwaves yesterday with ads and TV interviews promoting the need to reform health care.

As a Senate health committee passed a different version of a health-care reform bill - a milestone for the issue - Obama said on NBC, "The American people have to realize that there's no such thing as a free lunch."

And in a Rose Garden speech, he said the "status quo" on health care is "threatening the financial stability of families, of businesses, and of government. It's unsustainable, and it has to change."

Asked if Obama supports the surtax on wealthiest Americans even though it would break a campaign pledge, White House spokesman Robert Gibbs said only, "It's a process that we're watching."

Republicans in Washington and small-business defenders in New York said the House legislation would effectively place a stranglehold on businesses while running off top earners.

"Placing a big tax burden on the small-business community would rob them of the resources they need to create the jobs that will lead us out of the recession," said Tom Donohue, president of the US Chamber of Commerce.

"If there's one sure way to kill the goose that lays the golden egg, this is it."

Richard Lipsky, a lobbyist for small stores and businesses in New York City, warned that "in the middle of a recession, it's a very strange way to legislate."

"According to what we've read, the House health-insurance plan would have a job-crippling impact on neighborhood stores and other small businesses because they put mandates on these businesses that would prevent them from hiring people because of the cost of the plan," Lipsky said.

Under the House plan, businesses with payrolls of $400,000 or more would pay an 8 percent penalty for uninsured workers, while companies with payrolls between $250,000 and $400,000 would pay slightly smaller penalties.

Adding to this burden, said Michael Moran of the State Business Council of New York, is that New York is already a high-tax state.

"Any additional taxes make New York even less competitive," he said.

New York would become the third-most-hostile place for top earners to live under the proposed new surtaxes supported by House Democrats and championed by Rep. Charles Rangel (D-NY).

Also hit would be individuals earning $280,000 annually and families making $350,000 a year.

The profits from small businesses would also be taxed on the back end.

Kathryn Wylde, president of the Partnership for New York City, an umbrella organization representing the city's major businesses, said that the estimated top marginal tax rate of 57 percent for New York actually underestimates the potential impact on businesses.

That's because it doesn't include the city's burdensome unincorporated-business tax, which snares many entrepreneurs.

"It could be between 62 and 63 percent," she said.

If the House plan passes, Wylde said, "There literally, at this point, is very strong reason to relocate your family and your business outside New York."

A lot of small businesses would be hit with the penalties for not insuring workers and get hit with the surtaxes, Moran warned.

"Many small businesses file their business taxes under personal income," he said. "That's the way the tax law is written. Small business, which is really where most of the job creation takes place, could be hit hard.

According to the city's Department for Small Business Services, there are some 220,000 small businesses in the five boroughs. The agency does not keep track of how many offer health insurance.

"It's something that's going to kill jobs. That's the result," said Stephanie Cathcart, spokeswoman for the National Federation of Independent Businesses.

Among the most egregious provisions of the House proposal, she said, is a requirement that businesses pay the cost of 72.4 percent of individual health plans and 65 percent of family plans.

Those that don't hit the mark would face the payroll tax penalty.
http://www.nypost.com/seven/07162009/ne ... 179525.htm
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InkL0sed
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Re: 57% Tax Rate

Post by InkL0sed »

Have you ever actually read a copy of the New York Post? That paper is utter trash. It's a tabloid.
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Re: 57% Tax Rate

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InkL0sed wrote:Have you ever actually read a copy of the New York Post? That paper is utter trash. It's a tabloid.
It doesn't matter... it's a 57% tax rate, it's true, it's probably going to happen. Doesn't matter who reports it.
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Johnny Rockets
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Re: 57% Tax Rate

Post by Johnny Rockets »

57% is close to Canada's tax rate.

You'll live.


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thegreekdog
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Re: 57% Tax Rate

Post by thegreekdog »

Johnny Rockets wrote:57% is close to Canada's tax rate.

You'll live.


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I don't live in NYC, so I probably will, yes.
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GabonX
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Re: 57% Tax Rate

Post by GabonX »

Canada...
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Simon Viavant
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Re: 57% Tax Rate

Post by Simon Viavant »

Obviously inferior to us just like the rest of the world.
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GabonX
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Re: 57% Tax Rate

Post by GabonX »

That's racist
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Re: 57% Tax Rate

Post by saxitoxin »

ANYONE who doesn't believe the ruling class should pay for the hundreds of years they've built up their wealth on the backs of working families is either an apologist or one of the upper class themselves.

There was a time, not that long ago, when there were places in this world where people could celebrate equality without fear of jingoism, nationalism, racism, homophobia, chauvinism, sexism, etc.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gyfay62Nks

Let's stop complaining just because the US is trying to be A LITTLE more civil and egalitarian.
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GabonX
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Re: 57% Tax Rate

Post by GabonX »

The problem I have with this isn't that the RULING CLASS will be discriminated against, but rather that this punishes average people for becoming moderately more successful than their peers.

The levels of success which will be taxed here are far below what constitutes the RULING CLASS.

I do not come from the top level of society, yet I still prefer to live in a country where my potential, including my earning potential, is not limited by the shortcomings of others.

To me this principle is more important than whether or not I would get more money under the proposed tax system.
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Re: 57% Tax Rate

Post by GabonX »

Oh yeah..and I like your song ;)
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Night Strike
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Re: 57% Tax Rate

Post by Night Strike »

America was founded on the principles that if you worked hard and didn't sit around, that you would have the opportunity to improve yourself and your family. We shouldn't be using taxes to punish those who are rich just to help those at the bottom. I'm willing to bet that most of those "rich" people do more through charities and other donations to help others than the government ever could.
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Re: 57% Tax Rate

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America was founded on federalism. I'm not hearing any loud complaining from actual New Yorkers. Let us govern our own fucking city, and don't use our local politics as some propaganda tool.

My point about the New York Post is that I really, really doubt it's that simple, or that the numbers are actually accurate. And it fails to mention the number of ridiculously rich people that live in this city, despite it being so "hostile".

So, in a few words... stop giving opinions on something you know nothing about.
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GabonX
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Re: 57% Tax Rate

Post by GabonX »

Temper temper :-s

It's my right as an American to draw my own conclusions on issues and discuss them as I wish.

If I see that their is a practice going on somewhere that I think exemplifies a course of action to be avoided I am free to call attention to it.
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Re: 57% Tax Rate

Post by thegreekdog »

InkL0sed wrote:America was founded on federalism. I'm not hearing any loud complaining from actual New Yorkers. Let us govern our own fucking city, and don't use our local politics as some propaganda tool.

My point about the New York Post is that I really, really doubt it's that simple, or that the numbers are actually accurate. And it fails to mention the number of ridiculously rich people that live in this city, despite it being so "hostile".

So, in a few words... stop giving opinions on something you know nothing about.
So your beef is two-fold: (1) with the NY Post, (2) with people other than millionaire New Yorkers caring.

Hope this helps with #1.

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&q=57% ... e&resnum=1
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Re: 57% Tax Rate

Post by InkL0sed »

GabonX wrote:Temper temper :-s

It's my right as an American to draw my own conclusions on issues and discuss them as I wish.
Tell me again where I said you didn't have that right? Oh, I didn't? That's funny, then why are you pointing out the obvious?
If I see that their is a practice going on somewhere that I think exemplifies a course of action to be avoided I am free to call attention to it.
Right, except you know absolutely nothing about any of it.
thegreekdog wrote:
InkL0sed wrote:America was founded on federalism. I'm not hearing any loud complaining from actual New Yorkers. Let us govern our own fucking city, and don't use our local politics as some propaganda tool.

My point about the New York Post is that I really, really doubt it's that simple, or that the numbers are actually accurate. And it fails to mention the number of ridiculously rich people that live in this city, despite it being so "hostile".

So, in a few words... stop giving opinions on something you know nothing about.
So your beef is two-fold: (1) with the NY Post, (2) with people other than millionaire New Yorkers caring.

Hope this helps with #1.

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&q=57% ... e&resnum=1
Hmmm... only other paper I see mentioning it is Fox News. Owned by the same guy, interestingly enough...

I like how the other articles that even address this issue call the New York Post article scaremongering.

http://gawker.com/5316121/the-new-york- ... e=true&s=x
The Post's scaremongering—the bill is a "job-killing" "poi$on pill" that will crush New York's most "dynamic entrepreneurs"—goes on for five-and-a-half paragraphs before we learn exactly what constitutes a "successful New Yorker": Households earning $1 million or more. So, for every dollar those folks earn over $1 million, the combined local, state, and federal taxes under the health care plan would be 57%. Currently, they pay a marginal tax rate of 51.4%.

So yes, millionaire New Yorkers will face a scary tax rate. All 61,000 of them. That's how many Manhattan households made more than $1 million as of 2007, according to the Wall Street Journal. And trust us, there are fewer now. And those who remain probably have good tax accountants.
PS.

Now do you see my beef with the Post?

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I mean, goddamn people, why don't you start reading the National Inquirer next? Next thing you know, the Post's headline tomorrow will say "LIZARDMAN DUMPS PARIS FOR SHAPE-SHIFTER"
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Night Strike
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Re: 57% Tax Rate

Post by Night Strike »

Ink, why do you keep attacking the one's publishing the story? They're just crunching the numbers, not making numbers up. Someone should be running the numbers rather than ignoring the full impact of everything Congress is trying to pass.
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Re: 57% Tax Rate

Post by Skittles! »

57% tops? That's nothing. 45% for people making 1 million? My family pays more tax than that for 4 times less the money. You American's think you have it so bad with taxes. Just get the f*ck over it.
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Re: 57% Tax Rate

Post by Night Strike »

Skittles! wrote:Just get the f*ck over it.
No.

It's as simple as that. I'm a big boy, I don't have to rely on the government to take care of my every need. When I work, I want to keep most of my money. I don't want to spend more time working to pay off the government than how much I work to feed my own family and take care of their needs. And I don't want to receive money from those who worked for it. I work to improve my life and take care of myself, I don't work to pay off the government.
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Re: 57% Tax Rate

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Night Strike wrote:Ink, why do you keep attacking the one's publishing the story? They're just crunching the numbers, not making numbers up. Someone should be running the numbers rather than ignoring the full impact of everything Congress is trying to pass.
I attacked the Post in a PS. Try reading the stuff before that for my actual argument.

PS. Rereading the part before the PS in my post, I can see that some if not most of you will misconstrue what I said to be attacking the Post as a paper. No, the meat of the argument is from the quote: this tax rate is actually 57% on earnings made after a million dollars. So basically your arguments don't apply; there's no lost incentive, no one's going to stop working because they'd make less money with a salary of a million dollars instead of $800,000. The median income in New York is $63,000, and this tax raise is only by 5%. These people will not only live, but live comfortably; and the idea is to get health care at the same time, thus freeing small businesses from the burden of providing insurance for their employees.

But yeah, I mean, poor millionaires. I cry.
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Re: 57% Tax Rate

Post by jonka »

Skittles! wrote:57% tops? That's nothing. 45% for people making 1 million? My family pays more tax than that for 4 times less the money. You American's think you have it so bad with taxes. Just get the f*ck over it.
We don't get the nice Health care/schools/ect. that you do, Taxes suck, but they are a good thing.
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Skittles!
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Re: 57% Tax Rate

Post by Skittles! »

jonka wrote:
Skittles! wrote:57% tops? That's nothing. 45% for people making 1 million? My family pays more tax than that for 4 times less the money. You American's think you have it so bad with taxes. Just get the f*ck over it.
We don't get the nice Health care/schools/ect. that you do, Taxes suck, but they are a good thing.
Which is why the tax is going up in the first place! So you do get a nice health care! And probably better schools! And public transport! Yay! Too bad some people, Nightstrike think that it's taking away their social liberties!

News flash (this is not at you jonka)! We, in the other parts of the Western world (yes, there are other places outside the USA, maybe you should go visit them), have pretty much the same social liberties, rights and freedoms of expressions that the US have. GOSH. That must be amazing to you. You must be thinking "what, really?". YARLY. We even get the extra bonuses of universal health care, public transport that is good most of the time, and public schools that actually teach shit! AMAZING! What a world. Is this stuff actually available to the American public? Why yes! It fucking is!

Please stop crying for all the poor, poor millionaires out there. It must be incredibly hard for them to be paying taxes and living the life they did. They'll lose thousands of dollars! Oh no! That's such a shame. I feel for them.
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Re: 57% Tax Rate

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Night Strike wrote:I'm willing to bet that most of those "rich" people do more through charities and other donations to help others than the government ever could.
Yeah... I'm willing to bet you're wrong.

I understand your need for anarchism but government, at least in other civilised countries, really does a lot to help society, and a lot more than charities which, noble as they are, are almost always much, much less effective than government intervention. That's one of the main reasons chaps like Bob Geldof appeal to governments to make the sweeping changes because charities from WaterAid to CAFOD do not have the same scope, Part of the problem? These charities don't operate like sikhism (any sikhs in the audience can feel free to correct me but I understand the religion operates a tithe-esque system with regards to donations) - that chap who has his taxes hiked from 52% to 57% (just an example) will see most of that cash /not/ spent on political salaries, but instead foreign aid, the police force, fire crews, healthcare, job centres (helping other people try and do The American Thing (tm)...), schools, public transport, and in a very Amerocentric note, space exploration and tons, I mean BUCKETLOADS on defence (offence...).

With the recent craze for philanthropy, it's tempting to take your view that "I worked hard for this money, and besides, people will give away their extra money to help society just as much". But people don't, and can't. It's far too easy to feel victimised - much harder to realise that actually, taxes are the backbone of keeping America good.
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Re: 57% Tax Rate

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thegreekdog wrote:So your beef is two-fold: (1) with the NY Post, (2) with people other than millionaire New Yorkers caring.

Hope this helps with #1.

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&q=57% ... e&resnum=1
I had a look - you have a few blogs, FOX news, and the fourth result being "Let's Not Get Hysterical About the Tax Increase in the Health-Care ..."

In fact, reading that article, the overall tax rate, for top earners, is going up by FIVE POINT FOUR PERCENT! WOW!

And this is for people earning over $250000 p.a., which let's face it, isn;t a huge amount of people.

In the UK you would get a bigger (20%) income tax hike than that just for earning £37,401 rather than £37,399.
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Re: 57% Tax Rate

Post by InkL0sed »

The1exile wrote:
thegreekdog wrote:So your beef is two-fold: (1) with the NY Post, (2) with people other than millionaire New Yorkers caring.

Hope this helps with #1.

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&q=57% ... e&resnum=1
I had a look - you have a few blogs, FOX news, and the fourth result being "Let's Not Get Hysterical About the Tax Increase in the Health-Care ..."

In fact, reading that article, the overall tax rate, for top earners, is going up by FIVE POINT FOUR PERCENT! WOW!

And this is for people earning over $1000000 p.a., which let's face it, isn;t a huge amount of people.

In the UK you would get a bigger (20%) income tax hike than that just for earning £37,401 rather than £37,399.
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