POKE's Conquer Map (version Alpha.2.3 - page 4)

[sinctheassasin]

it always makes me smile to see new faces in the foundry

[whitestazn88]

where's our #1 pika expert to help?

maybe pm fircoal for some ideas

[Robertaiking]

Looking good, I'd definitely like to play this at some point.

[BnrStnr]

Any progress on this map? Can't wait to play some big team games on it..

[captainwalrus]

This is really good. Perhaps make the connections a little thinner, so you see more of the background.

[iceco]

I had some trouble with my laptop (or lack thereof), so it has been in the fridge for a month. Hopefully I'll have version 2 by the end of this week though.

And captainwalrus, the connections are that big to mirror the style of maps in the pokémon games, so I don't intend to make them smaller (they are transparent though, so the background shouldn't be completely lost)

[iceco]

Version 2 is out

I checked the requirements for a beta, and normally I meet them all now.

Click image to enlarge.

Click image to enlarge.

[sinctheassasin]

Hmm, it's starting to come together now

Maybe you should try to do some textures, don't the maps have some sort of topography or something?

[iceco]

Hmm, it's starting to come together now

Maybe you should try to do some textures, don't the maps have some sort of topography or something?

Hmm

I'm not sure I will overhaul the graphics. It was a choice to go without textures as the smooth transitions give a happy/childlike/high-fantasy feel, which I believe fits the theme better than a gritty texture, which feels too real in this case. The explanatory text has a light texture under it though.
They were approved last time and aren't easily replaced, so unless someone sees some serious issues, I would like to keep them. (I can slightly adjust the colour transitions though, if you see places that can be done better.)

[The Yeti]

Wow! Things are moving along rapidly. The bonuses need a bit of tweaking still, but hopefully they'll accept the map.

[whitestazn88]

it is not ready for beta, it has no draft stamp, or gameplay ,etc... furthermore, this is still copyright infringement... if you really wanna work on a map, please try something original

[iceco]

it is not ready for beta, it has no draft stamp, or gameplay ,etc... furthermore, this is still copyright infringement... if you really wanna work on a map, please try something original

That it needs the draft stamp before going to beta is quite obvious.
I don't know what you mean by it requiring gameplay. If you goal at the lack of XML, I wouldn't know how to do it myself.
And if you could please point out just one thing that is under the pokemon copyright. Every single name has been altered and the landmass shapes do not belong to the pokemon franchise, they belong to Japan.

I have some things for version 3, but I first want to know exactly how it would go from there.

v3:
- make the blue territory markers more visible in one way or another
- slight adjustments to the bonusses

[Danyael]

And if you could please point out just one thing that is under the pokemon copyright. Every single name has been altered and the landmass shapes do not belong to the pokemon franchise, they belong to Japan.

well one of a bunch see your "console" images Nintendo could and would probably sue
want more ?

[iceco]

And if you could please point out just one thing that is under the pokemon copyright. Every single name has been altered and the landmass shapes do not belong to the pokemon franchise, they belong to Japan.

well one of a bunch see your "console" images Nintendo could and would probably sue
want more ?

The shape isn't copyrightable, only in very characteristic situations where I would copy the actual design for my own console. And did they sue PlayStation for their PSP?
Do Aston Martin, Jaguar, Ferrari,... sue other firms for copying VERY specific features?

Please try again, maybe you might come up with a decent argument.

EDIT:
I'm sorry if I sound a bit rude, it's just that I'm tired of this copyright discussion when obviously all I have to answer to are wild guessed of ill-informed posters who seem to have no intention of being constructive.
Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I'm more polite than you.

EDIT 2:
Just to point out of ridiculous I find this discussion. Do you know Digimon? They share more ground with the pokemon franchise than I do with this map. On top of that, they also actually earn money from an obviously pokemon-based idea. Did pokemon stop them? COULD they?
So no, this map will not have any copyright problems apart from people nagging about it having them.

[captainwalrus]

Ok, I like this map, but the consoles make it less about pokemon and more about the games, which I don't like. I say cut them out.

[iceco]

Ok, I like this map, but the consoles make it less about pokemon and more about the games, which I don't like. I say cut them out.

They are the Battle towers, Battle frontiers,... etc, so they do feature in the worlds and now have become an important way to balance the regions, since they can attack each other.
If you can think of better names, I'll replace them.
"Battle arenas"? "Colosseums"? "Fight pits"? "Dojos"?
It's just that I used the consoles to make it more obvious that they can attack each other.

[Danyael]

continue wasting you time then
i'm sorry to come off rude but there is way to many similarities
you a calling it POKE map
give your head a shake
and yes the shape and look of the gameboy is trademarked
have you every played mario paint ?
i'll galdly help you with idea's but untill i see your own artistry i think your time is being wasted

[iceco]

Concept of Digimon: monsters that evolve and can fight for a person
Digimon has: cards and a tv show

My map: some names that share similarities with pokémon
I have: a measly map

There are various ways to get round a copyright or a trademark (both different legal things). Digimon obviously managed to do that as Pokemon would never just accept them on their market if they could stop them.
I did my fair part of reading too and made sure I don't violate the copyrights any more. Yes, they could come on here and threaten, but they don't really have something to go further on.
I doubt that you have read as much about the copyright law as I did, and I obviously didn't as much as Digimon, but it was enough to ensure (at least myself) that this map is copyright ok.
Let it be my problem and put effort in making constructive suggestions instead of beating a dead horse.

By the way, if the gameboy shapes are trademarked, I can actually copy them on this map, for the trademark only covers the case of "confusion between products". There is absolutely no confusion possible between some pixels on a digital map and a plastic game computer. And that's the only question you need to make with trademarks.
(If I make a new bear and use the slogan "It is the best bear in the world", I will get into conflict with Carlsberger, who trademarked "Probably the best beer in the world", same goes for the logos.)

By request of captainwalrus, I will, however, replace the gameboys with something more immersive, but that it for the graphics stage, so I don't have to work on it yet.
I will also replace "Jotoh", if you really want, but "Kantoh" will stay, as it is a region in Japan (the same as I drew, and the same Nintendo based the Kanto region on as well).
And if you can propose a better name for the map, do so, but since "poke" isn't trademarked or copyrighted in any way (it's a verb), it would not be really necessary.

[captainwalrus]

OK, gameplay:

• Bonuses are wack. For shivoh, you have north worth 3 and mid worth one but north only has 2 borders and so does mid. they should both be worth 2.
• The ships should be territories that can attack all harbors, it makes it more realistic. A ship has to actually be taken then sailed to where it needs to go, unlike roads and such which always connect point a with point b.
• are the harbors marked, because I am having trouble finding all ten. Same with the mountains, I count seven mountains.
• Because consoles attack each other, +6 is a bit of a heavy bonus, maybe 5.

More to come, but I have to go now.

[iceco]

OK, gameplay:

• Bonuses are wack. For shivoh, you have north worth 3 and mid worth one but north only has 2 borders and so does mid. they should both be worth 2.
• The ships should be territories that can attack all harbors, it makes it more realistic. A ship has to actually be taken then sailed to where it needs to go, unlike roads and such which always connect point a with point b.
• are the harbors marked, because I am having trouble finding all ten. Same with the mountains, I count seven mountains.
• Because consoles attack each other, +6 is a bit of a heavy bonus, maybe 5.

More to come, but I have to go now.

North Shivoh has 5 territories, while Mid Shivoh only 3. I don't think it would be fair to give them both the same. Wouldn't it be better to leave North and give Mid +2?
The harbours aren't marked decently for the moment no. They are the end buttons of the 'tentacles'. Next graphical update that should be clearer. (Maybe the Golden Rod - Olive part confuses you, as they both have a harbour). They aren't named to avoid clutter, but will be seen in the XML as "Vermilion Harbour" etc., so named after the city they are the harbour of. With troop numbers on the map, you wouldn't have that problem.
There are actually 9 mountains, so I'll need to adjust that: Mt. Lunar (Kantoh), Mt. Pestle (Jotoh), Mt. Ore (Central Plateau), Mt. Cinder (Shivoh), Mt. Shaft (Hekoh) and Mt. Corona Nort, Mt. Corona South, Outer Mt. Corona and Mt. Bleach (Sunoh, with the latter on the island together with the console).
The reason I didn't make the five ships (or actually ferry services) territories is that they are specific to each continent, so it wouldn't make sense in the pokémon universe for them to travel to other harbours. If in the latter case they were territories after all, they would just be easily defendable bottlenecks for all the continent's harbours, so bad for gameplay.
About the consoles, you are right, it should be +5.

Thank you for the comment

[Danyael]

Question: What can be protected as a trademark?

Answer: You can protect

* names (such as company names, product names)
* domain names if they label a product or service
* images
* symbols
* logos
* slogans or phrases
* colors
* product design
* product packaging (known as trade dress

sorry maybe i should rephrase that its a registered trademark not just a tm but a r with a circle
if i search maps of pokemon regions on the internet why do so many look like yours?
did you draw them all or are your copying them
so you wanna say that your argument is that digimon and pokemon are ripping off each other and so its all right to ripoff as well

well that is not the right way of looking at it
as comparisons between the two are close they are two different ideas
one is a "Digital Monster" and one is a "Pocket Monster"
making a comparison of like that make me think that you believe mcdonalds is ripping off burgerking and vicea versa
if a company registers a trade mark they have exclusive rights to use that logo image for commercail use
and conquerclub makes money from people playing a game on a map
therefor your map would infringe the rights of Nintendo and Pokemon creators because conquer club will make money from the uses of these images
so as it stands yes you can draw and copy the images and designs as much as you want but this won't go live
until you re think the looks and names (and i understand you are working on removing and or replacing the console symbols)
as you have realized you and copy a basic idea but you have to make it inherently different
and you can think I'm talking out my ass but I tell you this from my own experiences in such matters
this might be informative to you its a site i was directed to when a lawsuit came up against me for images i drew for a company
http://www.chillingeffects.org/trademark/faq.cgi#QID51

[captainwalrus]

I have more!

• I am kind of confused about some borders. For example, violet, appears to border national park, golden rod, blackthorn, cherry cove, New Barf Town, Hydroglyph ruins and siliex Forest. Does it really border all of that? If not, it needs to be made clearer. National park can be moved so it is more on the path, if violet does not connect to Golden Rod.
• For bonuses, there are a few spreadsheets that help you figure out bonus values, located midway through the first post of the Map Making Tools thread
• Perhaps color coding the text of things like mountains, harbors, ruins, etc. would make it easier to figure out what needs to be held for the bonus.

[iceco]

I have more!

• I am kind of confused about some borders. For example, violet, appears to border national park, golden rod, blackthorn, cherry cove, New Barf Town, Hydroglyph ruins and siliex Forest. Does it really border all of that? If not, it needs to be made clearer. National park can be moved so it is more on the path, if violet does not connect to Golden Rod.
• For bonuses, there are a few spreadsheets that help you figure out bonus values, located midway through the first post of the Map Making Tools thread
• Perhaps color coding the text of things like mountains, harbors, ruins, etc. would make it easier to figure out what needs to be held for the bonus.

Violet does border all of them, making it one of the hidden strategic gems. Now you ruined it.
About the spreadsheet, I actually made my own to get to these bonuses, it had amount of territories, amount of open borders and amount of easily defendable borders (the borders you'd have when you made strategic conquers directly adjacent to the bonus continent). Though maybe those spreadsheets can help further, thanks for the link.
I am aware of that problem with the difficulty to find all those bonuses, but the problem with colour coding is that I found that colours are hard to get to be easily visible on the map. Would it suffice if I found just one alternative colour for all of these special bonuses? (I also though about underlining the territories belonging to these bonuses, but figured that lines would only clutter the map while barely helping in the first place.)

To Danyael:
I said it once, twice and trice, so four times won't hurt: If I vaguely copy the coastline of various large chunks of Japan and put scramble them together to fit in a 600x630 rectangle, there is nothing Pokemon can do to stop me. Pokemon doesn't have the regions together on one map and my copy of Japan is actually more accurate than theirs.
I won't begin about the names again, as that will obviously remain a subject where you will keep your opinion that this still is copyright infringement.

I just hope the moderators are actually more receptive to my arguments

[captainwalrus]

Also, you don't need to work on the small map for a little bit, work on the big one only for now, that way you only make updates once.

[darkangelsguy205]

looks confusing