[GP] [Rules] Eliminate Deferred Troops

[ubersky]

You know that he only gets whatever troops he gets on the turn he plays right? i.e. if he missed a turn and was getting 20 in bonues, and during the missed turn, you hack his bonuses down to 6, that's all the deferred troops he gets. He doesn't get anything "earned" during the missed round.

People have a life. They miss a turn. People will always find ways to abuse things. Don't punish the innocent to deny the guilty.

[Halmir]

Find a way to stop power cuts, ADSL outages, real life in general getting in the way and I'm sure there'd be wider support for it

If people are abusing it then monitor how often per week they do this/how many times a month. Send them a few snot mails then do a temporary ban to sort them out (long enough so they lose all of their current games lol!).

[tamcardiff]

In Conquer Club, a person can receive their bonus troops in a lump and they can miss up to 2 turns continually without being booted.

A bonus is a reward for doing something positive. In CC it is taking your turn with 24 hours. The deferred bonus allows a player to overstretch themselves with games, miss goes and still play their armies. It makes the game very slow and is a sneaky underhand strategy.

Scrapping the deferred bonus would encourage faster game play and encourage players to take on the number of games they can manage.

A person may miss a move for very good reasons. For that, maybe one set of deferred bonus' should be allowed. Another way to manage it, is a person should be booted from the game if they miss a number of turns or a total of 2x2 turns or 3x2 turns.

Really, I prefer a positive approach, that is sticking to what a bonus should be, a reward for doing something positive. No deferred bonus to encourage positive game play and game management,

[slowreactor]

You do know that the deferred troops cannot attack the turn they're deployed, and missing turns hurts more than helps you, especially on flat and esc. games where cards do matter?

[tamcardiff]

In the game I am playing, yellow seems to be able to attack and use their bonus' to strengthen their position. I am not sure, I understand your point.

TC

[owenshooter]

Another way to manage it, is a person should be booted from the game if they miss a number of turns or a total of 2x2 turns or 3x2 turns.

players are kicked for missing 3 turns in a row. any good player on this site will attack a player that misses a turn to limit deferred troops and/or bonus. missing a turn is not an advantage if you play with people that know what they are doing. you just need to adjust your strategy and not ask CC to resolve issues that are easily resolved with game play. to top it off, this has been suggested many times before and has been soundly rejected. good luck in the future.-0

[tamcardiff]

It happened in my game - Game 5198275 - the deferred bonus' were limited after pointing it out.

I just think it doesn't encourage fast game play and allows players to carry too many games in one go.

You may have discussed it many times, but I am new to CC and really don't like the kind of play if allows and encourages.

[owenshooter]

You may have discussed it many times, but I am new to CC and really don't like the kind of play if allows and encourages.

one word, "search"... search is your friend... search has many answers... not many people miss turns intentionally, and if you are allowing someone to miss multiple turns without punishing them, then you are just a bad player and you need to adjust your tactics. again, this isn't going to be changed, so just chalk it up as a learning lesson, and punish the next player that does this to you... just wait until you run into this in team games and the other member of the team gets his deadbeat partners troops when he deadbeats out... now THAT is a pain in the ass...-0

p.s.-brooklin tried to pull the same thing in a team game against me, and we just throttled him and it made the game end much sooner than it should have... good luck!!

[Timminz]

I am new to CC and really don't like the kind of play if allows and encourages.

It does not encourage missing turns. I would say that it encourages people such as yourself to develop better strategies, though.

[tamcardiff]

It is a matter of opinion. I am entitled to mine. I don't like them and the kind of play it encourages. I am not sure even how effective the deferred bonus type of play is - the player playing it in my game is a cook so I guess ultimately it doesn't work that well.

Developing a different strategy is stating the bleedin' obvious. I will of course do that and am doing it, but doesn't mean I have to like that style of play.

Owenshooter going in on another's game when you are not playing it is bad manners. If you got anything to say, say it on the thread.

[Strife]

What if they missed for legit reasons? What if they had some sort of family emergency and could no longer play? They should just lose out because they weren't able to or capable to take a turn.

[tamcardiff]

If a person has a family emergency or a big night out, or internet connection difficulty then one set of bonus should be allowed. If you have a family emergency to deal with then maybe that's what you got to deal with, and really if that is the case a game on the computer, is the last thing you are thinking about.

The deferred bonus rules can accommodate that, it is the strategy of missing gos and playing later throughout the game. This is linked to having 49 games on the go which a person is not managing. The deferred bonus rule as it stands allows players to mismanage games, if the rules were tightened it would encourage players to take on what games they can manage. The deferred bonus rule allows players to play sloppily and encourages slow game play. I try to take my moves quickly out of respect to the other players. If I don't have time for a game, I don't start one.

[tamcardiff]

Thanks for the comments OS. I retract the strong response to your encouragement of Brooklin. I understand that you have a sense of humour. This is a good thing.

A little organisation is taking place in the game and brooklin is being contained. I had to point it out though.

All part of the game, a dead beat deferred bonus to another dead beat in a team game would drive me crazy too.

[tamcardiff]

2009-07-26 04:49:00 - tamcardiff: I think that the deferred strategy may work if the other players are not wise to it, but it requires the other players to ignore them and fight amongst themselves.
2009-07-26 04:51:19 - tamcardiff: I think the real weakness is not losing the cards per turn but the irritation missing many moves and slowing the game down creates amongst the other players. This causes them to unite against the deferred bonus strategy.
2009-07-26 04:53:47 - tamcardiff: Maybe there should be a deferred bonus button, which allows a person not defer and move the game on? Allowing for the defer strategy or for players to attend to their business.

[KoE_Sirius]

Missing a turn leaves a player at an extreme disadvantage.
The only good idea I see in your suggestion is that someone who misses a total of 3 turns in anyone game should be booted.If that is what you was getting at ?
Why the turns have to be consecutive has never made any sense to me.
Miss a total of 3 turns consecutive or not. Kicked good idea
Losing defered amries. Bad idea

[Teflon Kris]

Seconded to the above point

How about this suggestion:

First missed turn - no big deal - deferred armies (-1 in no spoils games)
Second missed turn - no deferred armies (this dood will lose, no more deferred armies as that is just delaying the inevitable).
Third missed turn - bye bye (turn to neutral in team games as well).

I'm not sure I understand owenshooter's point that a reasonable player has an advantage despite deferred troops. Correct, usually, but this isn't a reason for having them. Workers still take pay home despite taxes. That isn't the reason for taxes.

True, that players may miss a turn due to unforseen circumstance. In no spoils, there are occassional situations where it may be deliberate and an advantage (rarely, but it could happen).

But why slow down the conclusion of a game for players who miss more than once. After the second miss, in most scenarios, there is only one winner - why bother with more deferred troops etc. to delay the end of the game.

After the first miss, deferred troops are a waste of time

And why players only get kicked after consecutive misses I will never know?

And what's all this, inheriting a deadbeat team-mate's troops? Again, just prolongs the inevitable conclusion of defeat for the deadbeat's team.

Whilst, deferred troops etc.may not actually encourage slow, annoying players, it does reflect CC's general lack of consequences to annoying, anti-social and cheating players. Lets get a bit tougher with these guys !!

[djak.]

I'm with sully on keeping the options to a minimum.

Also, I want new players to get armies mutiplied, because in the anti-deadbeat emails we send to new receruits that don't play, we use that to convince them to come back and get hooked

Since then we've also gotten fog and manual initial troops options, and it doesn't have to be an option - it could be the default game behaviour. As for newbie deadbeaters, why should they be favored while the paying customers who actually play get shafted?

With this lost option on, I suggest that for manual initial troops games, you leave the 1st turn missers on 1 army per territory instead of 3.

[sully800]

I'm with sully on keeping the options to a minimum.

Also, I want new players to get armies mutiplied, because in the anti-deadbeat emails we send to new receruits that don't play, we use that to convince them to come back and get hooked

Since then we've also gotten fog and manual initial troops options, and it doesn't have to be an option - it could be the default game behaviour. As for newbie deadbeaters, why should they be favored while the paying customers who actually play get shafted?

With this lost option on, I suggest that for manual initial troops games, you leave the 1st turn missers on 1 army per territory instead of 3.

lack already fixed the bug for missing the first round in manual games. Since you didn't actual miss an attacking phase you get no deferred troops for the deployment round.

The deferred troops have been adjusted since this suggestion was originally made, so I don't think it applies any longer and I'm going to move it to the rejected bin.

[groblerg]

this is a good idea, and i dont even think we need it as an option - we should make it a rule in all games. its just not fair that some players who miss turns (if on purpose or not) come back and get enough troops to inflict serious damage on those who didnt miss turns.

i hope theres a way to overturn this rejection.

[djak.]

this is a good idea, and i dont even think we need it as an option - we should make it a rule in all games. its just not fair that some players who miss turns (if on purpose or not) come back and get enough troops to inflict serious damage on those who didnt miss turns.

i hope theres a way to overturn this rejection.

I've just put a link to this thread in my sig. If more of us do this, and we can get enough unique players to post to this thread, maybe the rejection will be overturned.

[groblerg]

Some gamers will either miss a turn because they couldn't make and some for strategic reasons, but in either case - its not fair towards those who are "showing up" to take their turns:

• At the moment conquerclub inadvertently rewards bad behaviour.
  - I think we can all agree that missing a turn (whatever the reasoning) is bad behaviour because you make the other players wait longer then expected.... I am aware that this is debatable, a player can in theory take their turn 5 minutes before the end of the 24 hour window and it would not be bad behaviour, as they took their turn within a given time frame, but I think that on average turns are usually taken quicker then that.
  - By missing a turn, a player changes the game flow as everyone else knows that that player might be back and with a deferred troops bonus and that might change the way they play - Although, I've not seen a case yet were all players ganged up and attacked the player that missed turn in order to minimize his strength for when/if that player came back.
  - This can lead to other players imitating that behaviour for strategic advantage and slowing down the average turn taking time.
  
• missing a turn for strategic reasoning is not really fair-play as the gamer is "fooling" the other players and waiting for a chance to use an extra troop allowance (thanks to the deferred rule) against a player who might have spent his troops attacking in the previous turn. I have seen gamers winning a map thanks to this tactic and while it can't be proven that it was deliberate, it still is grossly unfair - especially as the other players had to wait for each missed turn 24 hours and were then given the "privilege" of facing an extra strong army once the player returned.
  
• There is the argument that yes, it is not fair that players that miss turns get deferred troops, but then the players who didn't miss their turn could attack and get a card (towards a bonus) - but then not all games offer cards (towards bonuses) and in addition, a bonus is what it is - bonus, and is it fair that a player that gets a bonus using his cards might not find the bonus effective enough against a player who just got his deferred troops and still holds his cards - I don't think it is.

Specifics:

• A player that misses a turn does not receive any deferred troops when they come back, instead they get the normal allocation they would get for a turn in the game.

This will improve the following aspects of the site:

• Players will no longer have any incentive to miss a turn, quite the opposite - they will know that if they miss a turn then they risk losing out as other players take their turn and get their troops.
• A higher percent of Players will take turns within the 24 hour time frame, therefore making games quicker and more fun for the players as a whole.
• Game's will be a lot more fair, rewarding players for playing, and not rewarding players for not-playing.

[SFX!]

viewtopic.php?f=471&t=3898

[AAFitz]

In short, this will never happen... and its because of this simple equation

missing a turn = no deferred troops = losing game nearly every time

the reasoning: things come up in life, and this is meant to be a casual game, and therefore people are given somewhat of a chance if something happens and they miss a turn.

By making your turns, you will almost always have the advantage. It also insures that every missed turn doesn't result in an immediate loss of game, which would reduce the competitiveness and fun of the game...not increase it.

[owenshooter]

as Af-dawg just stated, this will never happen. the first page of the site clearly states why...

Designed for the casual gamer, playing Conquer Club is not a time consuming process. You can take your turn in 5 minutes with your morning cup of coffee or in between classes. A game typically lasts several days, but hardcore risk takers can play multiple games at once and stay up all night strategizing their next move.

if you don't like people getting deferred troops. learn how to attack members that miss turns and limit the number of troops they receive on their next turn... good luck...-0

[jefjef]

No deferred troops for missed turns

• No deferred troops for missed turns

Specifics:

• when a player misses a turn do not reward them with prior turn reinforcements

This will improve the following aspects of the site:

• It will encourage players to not miss turns and remove it as a strategy.
• It will speed up games for those who want to play.
  (If this was suggested before I didn't find it.)