How Is It That Mormons Call Themselves Christians?

[2dimes]

I neither go to church, read the bible, or belong to any organized religion, which I believe has fucked up the message from the get-go.

I've read it.

Attention everyone, Johnny Rockets contradicts himself. Never take anything he writes seriously. What a clown, etc. etc. I hope you get the gist.

2 stars? Harsh dude, your discription of it betrays your claim it wasn't a better read. What translation did you try?

[demonfork]

BTW before you answer and just so you know I haven't come across very many people (including Mormons) that know more about Mormonism than I do. Religion is a hobby of mine and I am especially fascinated with Mormonism so if you're a typical anti-mormon with typical anti-mormon regurgitations please spare yourself the trouble.

So then why was it okay for Joseph Smith to defraud people out of their money and to kidnap, rape, and murder in order to feed his criminal sex obsession with young girls, but it is no longer acceptable according to official Mormon statements?

When was kidnapping, rape and defrauding people out of their money Mormon Doctrine? Furthermore when were these activities eliminated from their Doctrine?

[pimpdave]

Why was it acceptable for Joseph Smith to burn down a newspaper critical of his fabricated beliefs (like how the Book of Abraham is just a cheap, poorly translated version of the Egyptian Book of the Dead) and attempt to murder the editor of that periodical?

Why did Joseph Smith get rid of dissenters, when Jesus continued to accept and love Thomas, who doubted his resurrection?

[demonfork]

I neither go to church, read the bible, or belong to any organized religion, which I believe has fucked up the message from the get-go.

I've read it.

Attention everyone, Johnny Rockets contradicts himself. Never take anything he writes seriously. What a clown, etc. etc. I hope you get the gist.

2 stars? Harsh dude, your discription of it betrays your claim it wasn't a better read. What translation did you try?

How did he contradict himself? He said that he doesn't (current tense) read the bible but that he has (past tense) read it.

[2dimes]

How did he contradict himself? He said that he doesn't (current tense) read the bible but that he has (past tense) read it.

Nice of you to drop by and screen his calls but I'd like to speak english so I'll wait for him to get back to me. Thanks.

[pimpdave]

Why was it acceptable for Joseph Smith to burn down a newspaper critical of his fabricated beliefs (like how the Book of Abraham is just a cheap, poorly translated version of the Egyptian Book of the Dead) and attempt to murder the editor of that periodical?

Why did Joseph Smith get rid of dissenters, when Jesus continued to accept and love Thomas, who doubted his resurrection? Or never expelled Judas, continuing to show him love right up to the final moment, despite knowing he would betray him?

[demonfork]

Why was it acceptable for Joseph Smith to burn down a newspaper critical of his fabricated beliefs (like how the Book of Abraham is just a cheap, poorly translated version of the Egyptian Book of the Dead) and attempt to murder the editor of that periodical?

Who said that it was acceptable?

Why did Joseph Smith get rid of dissenters, when Jesus continued to accept and love Thomas, who doubted his resurrection?

So any Christian church that performs excommunications can't be considered Christian? Are Catholics Christians?

[Woodruff]

How did he contradict himself? He said that he doesn't (current tense) read the bible but that he has (past tense) read it.

Nice of you to drop by and screen his calls but I'd like to speak english so I'll wait for him to get back to me. Thanks.

Demonfork stated his point quite coherently, as well as accurately representing a valid response to your calling JR out. Did you want to answer it, or just continue dancing around it so it will go away?

[2dimes]

How did he contradict himself? He said that he doesn't (current tense) read the bible but that he has (past tense) read it.

Nice of you to drop by and screen his calls but I'd like to speak english so I'll wait for him to get back to me. Thanks.

Demonfork stated his point quite coherently, as well as accurately representing a valid response to your calling JR out. Did you want to answer it, or just continue dancing around it so it will go away?

Well golly, I'm surprised you have caught me. You should go out side and show this to people on the streets and warn them incase I try to pull the same stunt on them.

[Woodruff]

How did he contradict himself? He said that he doesn't (current tense) read the bible but that he has (past tense) read it.

Nice of you to drop by and screen his calls but I'd like to speak english so I'll wait for him to get back to me. Thanks.

Demonfork stated his point quite coherently, as well as accurately representing a valid response to your calling JR out. Did you want to answer it, or just continue dancing around it so it will go away?

Well golly, I'm surprised you have caught me. You should go out side and show this to people on the streets and warn them incase I try to pull the same stunt on them.

You'd think then that you would stop trying to play the silly game and just answer Demonfork's point, rather than continuing to embarrass yourself.

[2dimes]

How did he contradict himself? He said that he doesn't (current tense) read the bible but that he has (past tense) read it.

Nice of you to drop by and screen his calls but I'd like to speak english so I'll wait for him to get back to me. Thanks.

Demonfork stated his point quite coherently, as well as accurately representing a valid response to your calling JR out. Did you want to answer it, or just continue dancing around it so it will go away?

Well golly, I'm surprised you have caught me. You should go out side and show this to people on the streets and warn them incase I try to pull the same stunt on them.

You'd think then that you would stop trying to play the silly game and just answer Demonfork's point, rather than continuing to embarrass yourself.

I'm waiting for you to answer my question first then.

[Ray Rider]

Seriously 2dimes, don't be so childish! You misread JR's post, so admit it and move on.

[Neoteny]

Assumptive Dick.

There is nothing condescending with what I wrote. If you believe PRIMARILY, as in you Worship the dude then you would be considered a Christian. The rest is a human, social and cultural argument developed by man consisting of the methods and assumptions of what Christians believe Christs expectations are.

All Christ's message boils down to is:

1) Believe in me.
2) Love one another.

It took humanity in all of its stupidity to f*ck it all up.

It's pretty fucking simple, dude.

When you debate on what is the right way, or the wrong way, and who is, or is not "Christian" just remember to gut check
#1 and #2. If your causing harm, in the name of whatever god you believe in the you just might be a shitty Christian.
Expect to pay for that behavior.

JRock

(Before I get pigeon-holed, I neither go to church, read the bible, or belong to any organized religion, which I believe has fucked up the message from the get-go.)

Oh sure, you aren't condescending at all. We should just turn to you any time we would like to define a religion or even a word, especially since your clarity of expression is vastly superior. I'm glad to see you're a cynic who doesn't trust anything that doesn't come out of your own mind, but that does go two ways. So, however simplistic your opinions are, you really shouldn't expect that everyone else be as narrow-minded about religion.

[Johnny Rockets]

Assumptive Dick.

There is nothing condescending with what I wrote. If you believe PRIMARILY, as in you Worship the dude then you would be considered a Christian. The rest is a human, social and cultural argument developed by man consisting of the methods and assumptions of what Christians believe Christs expectations are.

All Christ's message boils down to is:

1) Believe in me.
2) Love one another.

It took humanity in all of its stupidity to f*ck it all up.

It's pretty fucking simple, dude.

When you debate on what is the right way, or the wrong way, and who is, or is not "Christian" just remember to gut check
#1 and #2. If your causing harm, in the name of whatever god you believe in the you just might be a shitty Christian.
Expect to pay for that behavior.

JRock

(Before I get pigeon-holed, I neither go to church, read the bible, or belong to any organized religion, which I believe has fucked up the message from the get-go.)

Oh sure, you aren't condescending at all. We should just turn to you any time we would like to define a religion or even a word, especially since your clarity of expression is vastly superior. I'm glad to see you're a cynic who doesn't trust anything that doesn't come out of your own mind, but that does go two ways. So, however simplistic your opinions are, you really shouldn't expect that everyone else be as narrow-minded about religion.

Feel free to turn to me to clear up any of your befuddlements.

And I have no expectations but the worst when it comes to humans and religion.
So yeah, I'm a cynic....well at least in that department.
Like seriously, how can you f*ck up " Love one Another" to the point where you were burning folks at the stake and in current times preaching that all gays are goin to hell?

Everyone is as narrow minded as they want to be, or as they are told to be, when it comes to religion.

So try to think outside the box.
You'll feel better about it all.

Johnny Rockets

[Neoteny]

I feel the question is more appropriately asked "how fucked up is it to even consider burning anyone at the stake or condemning anyone to hell?" I take no issue with the opinion that religion (as in the man-made thing) can act as a corrupting factor. But it's exactly the kind of simplification that you are espousing (used in a different context of course) that leads to such actions being taken. One assumes that they have the moral code down to a point (or two or whatever) and then implements it into a social framework. If indeed all Jesus was saying was "believe in me, and love one another," I think you and I would agree that (the Bible should have been a lot less wordy) people will still find a way to f*ck that up. But this takes us away from the initial point.

Despite what religions have done to bastardize what you conceive as Christ's message, would you label people who don't worship Jesus (for example, they just see him as being in close contact with a supernatural agent, rather than a supernatural agent in his own right), but still follow his moral standards and view of the universe as it pertains to a personal god as Christians? Because they still consider themselves to be Christians, and your classification would leave them out. Pardon my befuddlement.

[Johnny Rockets]

would you label people who don't worship Jesus (for example, they just see him as being in close contact with a supernatural agent, rather than a supernatural agent in his own right), but still follow his moral standards and view of the universe as it pertains to a personal god as Christians? Because they still consider themselves to be Christians, and your classification would leave them out. Pardon my befuddlement.



I think it would be difficult to split hairs here on the worship part of the equation.
By definition is not one who worships Christ a Christian?

Christian like behavior shares common attributes with many other religion's preaching’s and teachings. So just to behave like a Christian or display Christian like behavior isn't enough to classify you as a Christian. You’re just a hell of a nice guy.

However you can pray to Christ and go out and murder, rape, & pillage and still make a valid claim that you’re Christian.
You’re just a shitty Christian. Or a deluded hypocrite.

Now that being said, which religious groups does your above post refer too?
Correct me please if I'm in error, but don't the Mormons worship both equally?
Save the Jews, I can't think of any "The Good Lord Almighty" type faith that does not include the worship of Christ even if they direct praise to Father, Son, and Holy Ghost or Mary.
Perhaps I'm overlooking a few.

In the end I guess it's personal opinion, and our desire to label ourselves and each other into comfortable categories. Does it truly matter?

Regards,

JRock

[Johnny Rockets]

I neither go to church, read the bible, or belong to any organized religion, which I believe has fucked up the message from the get-go.

I've read it.

Attention everyone, Johnny Rockets contradicts himself. Never take anything he writes seriously. What a clown, etc. etc. I hope you get the gist.

2 stars? Harsh dude, your discription of it betrays your claim it wasn't a better read. What translation did you try?

How did he contradict himself? He said that he doesn't (current tense) read the bible but that he has (past tense) read it.

'Xactly that.
I have read (past tense, because I don't want to loose you here...) in my youth, countless versions of the Bible. My personal opinion of it as past posted is a summery of my experience in doing so.
My favorite version was the kiddie one that came with the crayons and coloring pictures.
I found it the most useful.

Johnny R

[2dimes]

I don't want to "pidgeon hole you" and may have worded things differently but basically agree with what you wrote in the post the top quote is from, except for the "assumptive dick" part. I might agree with that part too, but I'm not going to bother reading close enough to actually figure out what was being said to cause that opinion. Like I figured you noticed the question and had no difficulty answering it. I was curious, there is no agenda.

[Woodruff]

Despite what religions have done to bastardize what you conceive as Christ's message, would you label people who don't worship Jesus (for example, they just see him as being in close contact with a supernatural agent, rather than a supernatural agent in his own right), but still follow his moral standards and view of the universe as it pertains to a personal god as Christians? Because they still consider themselves to be Christians, and your classification would leave them out. Pardon my befuddlement.

Uh...I don't worship Jesus nor do I believe in supernatural agents. I do however follow pretty closely with the Christian Bible's moral code. I do not at all consider myself a Christian, and it doesn't even make sense to me that anyone would consider me to be one. Worshiping Jesus is quite a particular requirement to being a Christian ("only through me"), after all.

[The Neon Peon]

As a Mormon, I am confused as to how we are not Christian.

Here is what the faith boils down to:
1. The Bible
2. The things that were taught to the people in the Americas by God during the same period as the Bible was written (The Book of Mormon)

As for the video...
- Complete nonsense at the start. I've actually read the things where the video poster claims he got the info from. Never heard any of it before.
- The part about the beliefs of all Christians is true, with the great war when Satan convinces 1/3 of the people to join him and their banishment. Not the part about the dark skin, that statement had nothing to do with black people (it was referring to native americans and happened after they'd been on earth for hundreds of years)
- Complete nonsense again
- That is with the exception of 3:40-4:20, which is actually correct. That was the only segment.
- The part about the creation of the church afterwards is degrades quickly from negatively worded statements such as "known for his tall tales" to complete bs that is not our beliefs.
- And complete nonsense again.

If you actually read the things where he got the information from, you'll easily see how horribly he twisted the things. I was able to recognize only a few things (such as the statement about skin color which was out of context, wrong group of people, and wrong time, and wrong reason for it happening), but other than that I can't even tell where most of this is coming from even after having read almost all the stuff he put up in the "info" bar.

[2dimes]

Seriously 2dimes, don't be so childish! You misread JR's post, so admit it and move on.

Actually I quoted a couple of fragments of his posts and claimed they were contradictory. It's nice there's so many brave people to defend Johnny, bit of a waste I suspect as I doubt he felt threatened.

[Snorri1234]

2. The things that were taught to the people in the Americas by God during the same period as the Bible was written (The Book of Mormon)

Wait what?

[The Neon Peon]

2. The things that were taught to the people in the Americas by God during the same period as the Bible was written (The Book of Mormon)

Wait what?

That is basically what the Book of Mormon is.

It is an account of how some Israelites crossed the ocean to the Americas and is basically the Bible, except different area and different people.

[Snorri1234]

2. The things that were taught to the people in the Americas by God during the same period as the Bible was written (The Book of Mormon)

Wait what?

That is basically what the Book of Mormon is.

It is an account of how some Israelites crossed the ocean to the Americas and is basically the Bible, except different area and different people.

"Wait what" wasn't me indicating that that was some interesting piece of knowledge to learn, it was me indicating that WTF?? Are you not seeing the absurdity of that shit?

[pimpdave]

It's interesting that Mormons just deny deny deny.

If that stuff was twisted The Neon Peon, why not post the text of what those citations refer to here, and provide for us the proper interpretation, instead of just calling it wrong out of hand but not substantiating it with anything but saying "that's wrong"? Give us the source material, and then explain it please.

It's what other Christians do when challenged on points of the Bible, and you are a Christian, right?