ANTI-RACIST MATH(S)

[BigBallinStalin]

"Y'all are bunch of racists, ya racist fascist facsimiles of a racist racist." Perhaps if y'all were brought up by an anti-racist mathematics teacher, it would be different story.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-racist_mathematics

[john9blue]

Yeah I lol'd HARD the first time I heard of that, especially because anyone who has ever competed in math contests knows that Asians are BETTER at math than whites.

[Timminz]

anyone who has ever competed in math contests knows that Asians are BETTER at math than whites.

Because they place a higher CULTURAL significance on education (which includes math). Those Asians who were always beating you at math contests, did so because they studied longer, and harder than you did, for many years. Being born in Asia does not make someone good at math.

[john9blue]

Because they place a higher CULTURAL significance on education (which includes math). Those Asians who were always beating you at math contests, did so because they studied longer, and harder than you did, for many years. Being born in Asia does not make someone good at math.

Maybe, I'm no expert. But it takes much more than "hard work and studying" to succeed at the top level of these things...

[Neoteny]

If Asians are better at math... why did most of the mathematical "progress" for the last 400 years stem from the West? It's really very clear; there is a culture amongst Americans of eastern Asian decent that prizes hard work in education. As such, they spend a lot of time learning math, science, and all that good stuff, while Americans are off playing football (I'm generalizing both cultures here, there are Asian Americans who play football too, and American nerds who win math events). That's why they beat you in the nerdfests.

[Timminz]

Because they place a higher CULTURAL significance on education (which includes math). Those Asians who were always beating you at math contests, did so because they studied longer, and harder than you did, for many years. Being born in Asia does not make someone good at math.

Maybe, I'm no expert. But it takes much more than "hard work and studying" to succeed at the top level of these things...

So, you're going to stick with that?

"So what if they have longer school days, weeks, and years? So what if they place a much higher cultural value on education (math, in this case)? That's not why they're better at it. It's because they're Asian. That's where the real advantage comes from."

john9blue is a racist.

[Imaweasel]

you do not believe that certain races have better abilities than others?

I am just wondering.

[Neoteny]

Because they place a higher CULTURAL significance on education (which includes math). Those Asians who were always beating you at math contests, did so because they studied longer, and harder than you did, for many years. Being born in Asia does not make someone good at math.

Maybe, I'm no expert. But it takes much more than "hard work and studying" to succeed at the top level of these things...

So, you're going to stick with that?

"So what if they have longer school days, weeks, and years? So what if they place a much higher cultural value on education (math, in this case)? That's not why they're better at it. It's because they're Asian. That's where the real advantage comes from."

john9blue is a racist.

I don't think this is a new conclusion, but perhaps we should start a list like the atheist one.

[john9blue]

Being Asian -> culture of hard work and studying
Culture of hard work and studying -> better at math and science

ergo being Asian -> better at math and science (generally speaking) -> john9blue is a racist?

Flawless logic as usual...

[Neoteny]

Being Asian -> culture of hard work and studying
Culture of hard work and studying -> better at math and science

ergo being Asian -> better at math and science (generally speaking) -> john9blue is a racist?

Flawless logic as usual...

Culture =/= inbred talent.

Does that help?

[john9blue]

Also I think it's funny how if I say whites are better than (some race) at (something) it's "white pride", but if I say whites are worse than (some race) at (something) it's "jealousy". Idiocy all around.

[john9blue]

It's possible Neo, but it's also possible that certain areas of the brain are more active in certain races (genetically based) BECAUSE of said culture.

[Timminz]

you do not believe that certain races have better abilities than others?

Some cultures tend to foster success in areas that other cultures do not. What you see as a difference between "races", are cultural variation, rather than genetic.

[Neoteny]

It's possible Neo, but it's also possible that certain areas of the brain are more active in certain races (genetically based) BECAUSE of said culture.

What's possible and what's likely are two different things. There is no reason to think Asians are genetically inclined to have brains more receptive to a culture of learning math. How would that even develop?

[BigBallinStalin]

If Asians are better at math... why did most of the mathematical "progress" for the last 400 years stem from the West? It's really very clear; there is a culture amongst Americans of eastern Asian decent that prizes hard work in education. As such, they spend a lot of time learning math, science, and all that good stuff, while Americans are off playing football (I'm generalizing both cultures here, there are Asian Americans who play football too, and American nerds who win math events). That's why they beat you in the nerdfests.

Buht wut bout dem A-rabs them centuries before 400 years ago? They did some dern good sceince stuff cuz they're Arub.

[Neoteny]

If Asians are better at math... why did most of the mathematical "progress" for the last 400 years stem from the West? It's really very clear; there is a culture amongst Americans of eastern Asian decent that prizes hard work in education. As such, they spend a lot of time learning math, science, and all that good stuff, while Americans are off playing football (I'm generalizing both cultures here, there are Asian Americans who play football too, and American nerds who win math events). That's why they beat you in the nerdfests.

Buht wut bout dem A-rabs them centuries before 400 years ago? They did some dern good sceince stuff cuz they're Arub.

Wull, oviously they ain't doing shit wit' deir math 'cept blowin' the shit out of demselves, so we can ignore 'em.

[Timminz]

Also I think it's funny how if I say whites are better than (some race) at (something) it's "white pride", but if I say whites are worse than (some race) at (something) it's "jealousy". Idiocy all around.

No one has said those things.

If I were to respond to you making such assertions, I would replace "white pride" with "ignorant racism", and I would also replace "jealousy" with "ignorant racism", but I won't, because those are merely straw man arguments that you're making.

Stop attributing cultural variance to genetics, you ignorant racist.

[john9blue]

Well I'll lay it out because I'm not familiar enough with particulars to get into a long debate (nor are most people here, but I at least will readily admit it).

The consistency with which certain ethnic groups excel at certain traits is too great for me to brush it off as "cultural influences"... particularly in America, which is a mixing pot of cultures. Cultures change rapidly enough and vary too much among ethnically related individuals for this to be the case. I have no problem making judgments about groups of people based on genetic traits they themselves cannot change. Many in modern society would rather not do this and live in a fantasy world of perfect equality. Note that I do NOT judge the worth or character of an individual person until I know them reasonably well. That's entirely different from noticing trends between race and achievement. You can call me a racist if you like, but at least it's better than being so idealistic that you're ignorant of reality.

[Timminz]

You can call me a racist if you like, but at least it's better than being so idealistic that you're ignorant of reality.

I guess it is a bit idealistic to hope you might understand any of this, beyond your preconceived ideas about "race".

[john9blue]

^ ignorance of reality...

[BigBallinStalin]

^ ENTER: GabonX's clone.

[hecter]

The consistency with which certain ethnic groups excel at certain traits is too great for me to brush it off as "cultural influences"...

But it's not. The students who's parents put great weight and emphasis on excelling in education generally have children who excel in education. I've found that to be true regardless of the race of the student. However, I've found that Asian culture feels that failure in education is not an option, unlike in western culture, and not doing GREAT and even just doing good in your schooling is a bad thing, and so they must excel, they must go to university and become engineers. And so, because of that, you have a LOT more Asians excelling in school, especially in maths and sciences (because the parents want scientists and engineers, not kids with a useless BA) than some of the other students. But, the parents that don't really care about such things generally have children who don't really care about such things and so the children will often fail (or at least just receive a more average grade). Yes, even the Asian ones, and yes, even in the math and science courses.

It's all about culture and upbringing. The only differences I've seen in races that cannot be attributed to that are slight physical changes. Asians are GENERALLY a bit shorter, blacks are GENERALLY a bit bigger, variations in skin colour and eye and nose shape. Stuff that doesn't really matter like that.

[john9blue]

You might be right hecter. That's why I included the "don't judge the worth of people before you know them" disclaimer, which people like Timminz and BBS have failed at spectacularly in this very thread. I am at least open to the fact that (even due to cultural influences) groups of people can be judged based on their race, although race itself might not be the primary cause. The nurture/nature debate is old as dirt and frankly I don't feel like starting it up...

[Snorri1234]

You might be right hecter. That's why I included the "don't judge the worth of people before you know them" disclaimer, which people like Timminz and BBS have failed at spectacularly in this very thread. I am at least open to the fact that (even due to cultural influences) groups of people can be judged based on their race, although race itself might not be the primary cause. The nurture/nature debate is old as dirt and frankly I don't feel like starting it up...

Races don't really exist.

[john9blue]

Races don't really exist.

I thought it had been established that people with Asian ancestors had cultural values that caused them to work harder. What do you call that group of people?

Races are being mixed as we speak, but "no races" is still a stretch...