National ID

[Woodruff]

I am for any technology that can make tracking criminals, murderers, rapists, child molesters, illegal aliens easier!

Also, I support RFID 100% in cases indicative to health and having hospitals be able to scan your "chip" and get instant access to all your medical history records immediately!

My mom just went into the hospital, and the clinic that she went to beforehand never wrote down that she had Valley Fever. So when she went to another hospital with terrible headaches, they didn't know what to do. We assumed that the hospital had the records...but they didn't! If my mom had a RFID, they could have known that she had Valley Fever and treated her accordingly. But instead she ended up with spinal meningitis and is STILL IN THE HOSPITAL! SHE ALMOST DIED!

So, I support any legislation that involves using RFID technology for health record purposes. If that comes in the form of a National ID..I am all behind it!

STOP BEING SO PARANOID!

And Christians really need to get over this "MARK OF THE BEAST" complex! Geesh!

Or your mom could have just said to the hospital "I have Valley Fever; don't do anything stupid."

The RFID isn't going to make that previous clinic write down crucial information anyway.


Most people who are opposed RFID aren't paranoid or crazy. They're typically opposed to it because even though the RFID can be used for good purposes, the definition of who is good is largely in the hands of the government, and their decisions over such valuable information has no effective and/or clear oversight whatever. With the RFID, you're just easier to track down and keep more efficient records on, which is something that can be used against you without any "legal" justification whatsoever. All it takes is a small bribe or some kind of coercive activity, and one can find out much about anyone they like. That information can be used against them, which it will be for political campaigns, destroying people's reputations that the government deems as "bad," or just to make someone's life absolutely difficult in a more efficient manner.

No, thank you, sir. People who do support RFID aren't aware of the potential problems upon which will easily be exploited by the government and its certain agencies or highly influential individuals, who aren't government employees. And if they are aware, then they're either gullible or just typical indifferent, uninvolved Americans, who constantly fail to critically think about important issues.

Military ID cards already use this technology, and it saves lives in the form of medical information.

[2dimes]

Yup. There wouldn't be a tracking chip in it, so it is about as much of a destruction of freedoms as a state ID or driver's license is now.

Source please? Everything I have read says there most likely will be an RFID chip in it.

Right, RFID chip, something with the range of no more than a few feet. They'll totally use it to track you from orbit. Unless you leave it at home...

If they start tracking it won't be from Orbit. It will be from the door frame with the reader installed in it you walked through to get into the bath house, school were the anti government rally was, etc.

But I didn't attend the anti govenrment rally, I left when I realised what was going on.

Computer says you were there, off to the prison where Jay's a guard and can tell you his tales while you're captive.

Eventually "leaving it at home" losing it at the bath house etc. will be the reason we "have to implant them in everyone."

[Frigidus]

Yup. There wouldn't be a tracking chip in it, so it is about as much of a destruction of freedoms as a state ID or driver's license is now.

Source please? Everything I have read says there most likely will be an RFID chip in it.

Right, RFID chip, something with the range of no more than a few feet. They'll totally use it to track you from orbit. Unless you leave it at home...

If they start tracking it won't be from Orbit. It will be from the door frame with the reader installed in it you walked through to get into the bath house, school were the anti government rally was, etc.

But I didn't attend the anti govenrment rally, I left when I realised what was going on.

Computer says you were there, off to the prison where Jay's a guard and can tell you his tales while you're captive.

Eventually "leaving it at home" losing it at the bath house etc. will be the reason we "have to implant them in everyone."

Yeah, OK.

[2dimes]

Radio frequency identification Chips are only better for being read quickly as you go near a reader. They just contain a number that is in the data base. You could have the number written on the card or if you're worried about errors a bar code.

[PLAYER57832]

You forget the driving licence.
I am often asked for i.d. by jobswurfs when using a credit card, and on several occasions I have been refused alcohol for lack of i.d. - I'd like to think it's because they doubt I'm over 21, but if so then please just shoot their guide dogs.
Such people find it hard to believe that I don't have a driving licence. or any other photo i.d..

Just an FYI, if you like, in most states (maybe all) you can get a non-driver ID. It looks about like a regular license, but does not confer driving priviliages

[Juan_Bottom]

We've posted on this topic a lot already. Three things we learned.
#1 as long as your battery is in your cell phone, you are track able already. Doesn't matter if your phone is on or off.
#2 existing RFID identification is easily readable by easily obtainable readers from up to 50-75 ft away.
#3 government has a hard-on for these things

Remember that thread about the Englishmen who bought an RFID reader from Wal*Mart then went all through California stealing people's information for his report?
Doesn't matter if some information is coded or not. The point was that by installing a few readers 100 ft or so apart in a city, anyone could track anyone.
It gets scary when you think of ex-husbands or drug dealers or anyone dangerous buying readers and writing down your number. They could track you everywhere you go and you wouldn't even know it. Law enforcement/big government could therefor do the same.

Dr Katherin Albrect (sp?) is a conservative radio show host. She's very intelligent and has devoted her life to stomping these things into the ground. I like her red hair.
I also liked her expose on RFID linked to cancer in pets.

[2dimes]

Pics?

[BigBallinStalin]

Pics?

Dog Lip Tumor

[BigBallinStalin]

I am for any technology that can make tracking criminals, murderers, rapists, child molesters, illegal aliens easier!

Also, I support RFID 100% in cases indicative to health and having hospitals be able to scan your "chip" and get instant access to all your medical history records immediately!

My mom just went into the hospital, and the clinic that she went to beforehand never wrote down that she had Valley Fever. So when she went to another hospital with terrible headaches, they didn't know what to do. We assumed that the hospital had the records...but they didn't! If my mom had a RFID, they could have known that she had Valley Fever and treated her accordingly. But instead she ended up with spinal meningitis and is STILL IN THE HOSPITAL! SHE ALMOST DIED!

So, I support any legislation that involves using RFID technology for health record purposes. If that comes in the form of a National ID..I am all behind it!

STOP BEING SO PARANOID!

And Christians really need to get over this "MARK OF THE BEAST" complex! Geesh!

Or your mom could have just said to the hospital "I have Valley Fever; don't do anything stupid."

The RFID isn't going to make that previous clinic write down crucial information anyway.


Most people who are opposed RFID aren't paranoid or crazy. They're typically opposed to it because even though the RFID can be used for good purposes, the definition of who is good is largely in the hands of the government, and their decisions over such valuable information has no effective and/or clear oversight whatever. With the RFID, you're just easier to track down and keep more efficient records on, which is something that can be used against you without any "legal" justification whatsoever. All it takes is a small bribe or some kind of coercive activity, and one can find out much about anyone they like. That information can be used against them, which it will be for political campaigns, destroying people's reputations that the government deems as "bad," or just to make someone's life absolutely difficult in a more efficient manner.

No, thank you, sir. People who do support RFID aren't aware of the potential problems upon which will easily be exploited by the government and its certain agencies or highly influential individuals, who aren't government employees. And if they are aware, then they're either gullible or just typical indifferent, uninvolved Americans, who constantly fail to critically think about important issues.

Military ID cards already use this technology, and it saves lives in the form of medical information.

A good point, but I'm not in the military. If I have any preexisting conditions that a hospital should know about, I'll just tell them myself, you know? And if I'm unconscious and being hospitalized, well darn, I hope they're careful, and good thing I'm not allergic to anything that they'd pump into me.

You have a very good point regarding medical information, but I don't think the system overall is beneficial for everyone since it can be so easily abused and exploited with very little if any oversight.

And by system I mean RFID's as well as National IDs.


Then again concerning National IDs, the government already knows everything there is to know, except of course that information is scattered about. By implementing a National ID program, exactly what information is attached to that ID?

[jonesthecurl]

You forget the driving licence.
I am often asked for i.d. by jobswurfs when using a credit card, and on several occasions I have been refused alcohol for lack of i.d. - I'd like to think it's because they doubt I'm over 21, but if so then please just shoot their guide dogs.
Such people find it hard to believe that I don't have a driving licence. or any other photo i.d..

Just an FYI, if you like, in most states (maybe all) you can get a non-driver ID. It looks about like a regular license, but does not confer driving priviliages

I found that out recently and am looking into it.
At 6 Flags I was refused a drink. Probably because I look 19.

[AAFitz]

Guys, you're missing the point.

..which I assume will have some form of GPS tracking chip in it.

If these come in, Obama will know when you are sleeping. He'll know when you're awake. He'll know if you've been....


That's right. The president of the USA is trying to take Santa Clause's job.

Mr. Santa, give us your money.
We don't want your stupid toys.
Give all the toys...
To the little rich boys.

[Snorri1234]

A good point, but I'm not in the military. If I have any preexisting conditions that a hospital should know about, I'll just tell them myself, you know? And if I'm unconscious and being hospitalized, well darn, I hope they're careful, and good thing I'm not allergic to anything that they'd pump into me.

What about those who are allergic?

[AAFitz]

Welcome to USSA

United Safer States of America

[hecter]

A good point, but I'm not in the military. If I have any preexisting conditions that a hospital should know about, I'll just tell them myself, you know? And if I'm unconscious and being hospitalized, well darn, I hope they're careful, and good thing I'm not allergic to anything that they'd pump into me.

What about those who are allergic?

Indeed. I can't see some sort of implanted RFID being useful for everybody, but it would most certainly be useful for those who already wear those medical bracelets and whatnot.

[PLAYER57832]

We've posted on this topic a lot already. Three things we learned.
#1 as long as your battery is in your cell phone, you are track able already. Doesn't matter if your phone is on or off.
#2 existing RFID identification is easily readable by easily obtainable readers from up to 50-75 ft away.
#3 government has a hard-on for these things

Remember that thread about the Englishmen who bought an RFID reader from Wal*Mart then went all through California stealing people's information for his report?
Doesn't matter if some information is coded or not. The point was that by installing a few readers 100 ft or so apart in a city, anyone could track anyone.
It gets scary when you think of ex-husbands or drug dealers or anyone dangerous buying readers and writing down your number. They could track you everywhere you go and you wouldn't even know it. Law enforcement/big government could therefor do the same.

Dr Katherin Albrect (sp?) is a conservative radio show host. She's very intelligent and has devoted her life to stomping these things into the ground. I like her red hair.
I also liked her expose on RFID linked to cancer in pets.

Here's a further clue, folks. Try "googling" your name. If you think we are not already tracked, you are seriously naive. Most of the tracking is done by companies who want to take your money, not the government. Does not comfort me in the least.

Next, Try "googling" your user names (all of them). And... then try the combination.. your user name, plus real name or address, etc. And guess what? Your future employer (maybe 20 years from now, maybe 5), your inlaws.. ANYONE can see what you are posting under all your user names, unless you have been very, very, very careful.

[PLAYER57832]

A good point, but I'm not in the military. If I have any preexisting conditions that a hospital should know about, I'll just tell them myself, you know? And if I'm unconscious and being hospitalized, well darn, I hope they're careful, and good thing I'm not allergic to anything that they'd pump into me.

What about those who are allergic?

Indeed. I can't see some sort of implanted RFID being useful for everybody, but it would most certainly be useful for those who already wear those medical bracelets and whatnot.

These are already available from private companies. Regarding medical records.. it is complicated, because right now, the data is not held securely. More even than having no information, someone can get your ID, file through your insurance and then suddenly your medical records are changed to reflect the new person. So, you can get in an accident and get the wrong blood type, etc.

This is one reason to keep a card with some basic information in your wallet or purse. (allergies, blood types, doctor's contact information and next of kin contact information)

[jay_a2j]

Mr. Santa, give us your money.
We don't want your stupid toys.
Give all the toys...
To the little rich boys.

Dear Mr. Grinch
the lazy boys and girls
will take your government handout in a pinch
Your liberal views you now hold
will enslave the blind sheep
for centuries untold.

[jay_a2j]

Here's a further clue, folks. Try "googling" your name. If you think we are not already tracked, you are seriously naive. Most of the tracking is done by companies who want to take your money, not the government. Does not comfort me in the least.

Next, Try "googling" your user names (all of them). And... then try the combination.. your user name, plus real name or address, etc. And guess what? Your future employer (maybe 20 years from now, maybe 5), your inlaws.. ANYONE can see what you are posting under all your user names, unless you have been very, very, very careful.

Hmmm and why shouldn't we make it that much easier for anyone to get information on us? Hell, let's just all give in and proclaim our loyalty to whatever deity they want us to serve. /sarasm

Again, you make a very very weak argument. The, "They have info on us already so why not give it to them willingly?" is an absurd stance.


BTW.... I Googled my REAL NAME and NOTHING about me came up.

[Snorri1234]

Here's a further clue, folks. Try "googling" your name. If you think we are not already tracked, you are seriously naive. Most of the tracking is done by companies who want to take your money, not the government. Does not comfort me in the least.

Next, Try "googling" your user names (all of them). And... then try the combination.. your user name, plus real name or address, etc. And guess what? Your future employer (maybe 20 years from now, maybe 5), your inlaws.. ANYONE can see what you are posting under all your user names, unless you have been very, very, very careful.

My name doesn't even show up on google. Nor does my user name give any result to sites I post on.


Only the facebook has me.


It's really easy to be careful with this.

[V.I.]

BTW.... I Googled my REAL NAME and NOTHING about me came up.

That's because Google hates you, Ray J. Now why don't you go take a long dump on a short queer?

[AAFitz]

Here's a further clue, folks. Try "googling" your name. If you think we are not already tracked, you are seriously naive. Most of the tracking is done by companies who want to take your money, not the government. Does not comfort me in the least.

Next, Try "googling" your user names (all of them). And... then try the combination.. your user name, plus real name or address, etc. And guess what? Your future employer (maybe 20 years from now, maybe 5), your inlaws.. ANYONE can see what you are posting under all your user names, unless you have been very, very, very careful.

Hmmm and why shouldn't we make it that much easier for anyone to get information on us? Hell, let's just all give in and proclaim our loyalty to whatever deity they want us to serve. /sarasm

Again, you make a very very weak argument. The, "They have info on us already so why not give it to them willingly?" is an absurd stance.


BTW.... I Googled my REAL NAME and NOTHING about me came up.

What is it that youre doing that makes you want to be anonymous?

At all times I have a drivers license, a credit card, a debit card, a block buster card, and some other cards on me. I also have a face which is logged into a computer with my license.

Why would I possibly care about a national Id That simply says who I am.

Am I worried that if I am not breaking any laws that they will come and take away my liberty....absolutely not. Why, because they dont even have time for everyone that IS breaking the law...which is one of your main points often.

You want them to crack down on crime, but you are afraid of having an ID that simply says who you are?

How is this any kind of invasion of privacy. Why would you not want them to know who you are. Why do you care if they know who you are?

The only people who would possibly care about such a thing are people who are breaking the laws.

The Fed's do not need a little card to find out who you are. It simply saves some time, and makes it easier to find those who are not citizens. It also make it harder to have forged state IDs which are much easier to pass off, in other states that are not as familiar.

Arguing against this is just utterly ridiculous. There is no loss of rights, and the main goal is quite the opposite, which is protection.

If you arent breaking the law, no one cares about you. Not one bit. If you think they want to lock everyone up in jail and are just looking for reasons, you are absolutely insane. Mostly, the system tries to do everything it can to keep people out of jail, because we dont have any more room for them.

But again, how is having a national ID anything but good for the average law abiding citizen?

And, do you think that you are anonymous without one?

[AAFitz]

Here's a further clue, folks. Try "googling" your name. If you think we are not already tracked, you are seriously naive. Most of the tracking is done by companies who want to take your money, not the government. Does not comfort me in the least.

Next, Try "googling" your user names (all of them). And... then try the combination.. your user name, plus real name or address, etc. And guess what? Your future employer (maybe 20 years from now, maybe 5), your inlaws.. ANYONE can see what you are posting under all your user names, unless you have been very, very, very careful.

My name doesn't even show up on google. Nor does my user name give any result to sites I post on.


Only the facebook has me.


It's really easy to be careful with this.

Oh really?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=sn ... =&aql=&oq=


Its very easy to be careful. Its also naive to think that if someone wanted to find out who you were that they cant.

Certainly anyone in law enforcement could very quickly.

[PLAYER57832]

What is it that youre doing that makes you want to be anonymous?

At all times I have a drivers license, a credit card, a debit card, a block buster card, and some other cards on me. I also have a face which is logged into a computer with my license.

Why would I possibly care about a national Id That simply says who I am.

I am, yes, afraid I am at least partially with jay on this one. Although the national ID per se does not bother me, there are some pretty clear answers as to why you would be bothered.

a few examples of why people fear broad government IDs --
60's persecution of anyone involved in the civil rights movements
McCarthysm
Nazi/SS activities (yes, they were not here, but should be a warning)
even targeting of the Black Panthers (not saying they were fully innocent, but they were NOT, at least initially, the terrorists they were made out to be).

This claim that "if you are not doing anything wrong, why should you worry", is the cry of tyrants everywhere. The most basic problem is that in a free society, people engage in many things that are perfectly legal now, but which might either appear questionable or be questionable and which could become illegal down the road. Plus, people just plain make mistakes. Should someone who engaged in the "hippie" protests of the 60's, for example, be refused a job now? If the actions were seriously terroristic, perhaps, however in almost all cases they were not.

BUT, here is the thing.. what really worries me is not this government ID, what worries me is that private companies may collect all sorts of data on us, without us even being aware and usually they are not subject to the same kind of restrictions that the government is.

It may seem fairly innocuous that anyone pregnant is inundated with all sorts of diaper coupons, catalogues, etc. However, the fact that obstetric offices are giving out free samples of formula (as and example) encourages women to use it instead of breast feeding, even though breast feeding is long kown to be far healthier (with very few exceptions... note, I did not say that use of formula makes one a terrible mother, it does suffice, but the benefits of breast milk are well known).

Go to the local grocery store, use one of their "customer cards", which are pretty much required now to get the sale prices, and they can "nicely" know everything you purchase.

Credit card companies have based rates upon where you purchase. If you go to a marriage counselor and put it on your card, they will assume you might be heading for divorce and your credit rating will go down... to name one of the more harmful impacts.

THOSE things terrify me far more than any government ID.

[PLAYER57832]

Here's a further clue, folks. Try "googling" your name. If you think we are not already tracked, you are seriously naive. Most of the tracking is done by companies who want to take your money, not the government. Does not comfort me in the least.

Next, Try "googling" your user names (all of them). And... then try the combination.. your user name, plus real name or address, etc. And guess what? Your future employer (maybe 20 years from now, maybe 5), your inlaws.. ANYONE can see what you are posting under all your user names, unless you have been very, very, very careful.

Hmmm and why shouldn't we make it that much easier for anyone to get information on us? Hell, let's just all give in and proclaim our loyalty to whatever deity they want us to serve. /sarasm

Again, you make a very very weak argument. The, "They have info on us already so why not give it to them willingly?" is an absurd stance.

That is NOT my stance ... read it again!

My point is that your obsessive fear of the government is very misplaced. The ones you really need to fear are all these private companies who usually don't have to follow anything close to the same privacy rules that the government does.

My second point was, yes regarding this partitcular ID program, the "cat is already out" and trying to stuff it back in is just not going to do anything. At this point, the information is so widely and easily available, the benefits of having a uniform ID outwiegh the drawbacks. Ironically enough, one of the benefits of the national ID is that it will almost certainly lead to some very tight controls over uses of the ID, and allow for far more restrictions regarding other IDs, like the social security number. Right now, try to get medical care without proferring it up. This is illegal in many areas, but try to get anyone to enforce it!

My third point is one you likely already know -- that you need to be careful what is posted.

BTW.... I Googled my REAL NAME and NOTHING about me came up.

Good for you, but once you start going out and getting a job, etc, it is highly unlikely that will continue.

I, for example, have only minimal records but I have not worked outside my home for over 10 years. Even so, both my married and maiden names are public, because I have been published and because I am involved in enough volunteer activities that my name appears in the paper with some regularity. Also, I gave birth...and , well, that's enough for a start.

[Snorri1234]

Here's a further clue, folks. Try "googling" your name. If you think we are not already tracked, you are seriously naive. Most of the tracking is done by companies who want to take your money, not the government. Does not comfort me in the least.

Next, Try "googling" your user names (all of them). And... then try the combination.. your user name, plus real name or address, etc. And guess what? Your future employer (maybe 20 years from now, maybe 5), your inlaws.. ANYONE can see what you are posting under all your user names, unless you have been very, very, very careful.

My name doesn't even show up on google. Nor does my user name give any result to sites I post on.


Only the facebook has me.


It's really easy to be careful with this.

Oh really?

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=sn ... =&aql=&oq=


Its very easy to be careful. Its also naive to think that if someone wanted to find out who you were that they cant.

Certainly anyone in law enforcement could very quickly.

Ah I've found the problem. Turns out I can't use google.com easily as it automatically redirects to google.nl

Google.nl can't find me.

Google.com finds my facebook for my real name, this site for my username here and a bunch of pages for combination which have absolutely nothing to do with me.