Map Proposal - Delaware Valley

by **Z-Rambo** on Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:15 am

I would like to propose a map I have constructed of Philadelphia, for the use on Conquer Club. Please give me some feed back of your opinion. Thank You!

by **natty dread** on Tue Mar 16, 2010 7:04 am

Too few territories. Also, please don't take this the wrong way, but if this is the extent of your graphical ability, you are going to need to find someone to do the graphics for you... Maps are not made with MS paint...

As for the rest, I'm going to tell you the same I told the guy who wanted to make a map of Austin, Texas: Take a look at the Chicago map, currently in Beta. There's a well made city map. If you can pull off something similar, I might be interested...

by **Industrial Helix** on Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:35 am

Philly could be very fun and if you're willing to develop your idea I think you might be able to pursue it.

First off, take a look at the "how to make a map handbook" viewtopic.php?f=466&t=40463

Then tell me what graphics software you are using. If it is in fact paint, go get Paint.net, or GIMP or some other freeware. If you have a little money, buy a used copy of Photoshop cs2 or cs3. Graphics aren't a difficult thing to learn to do and there's always a helping hand around these parts.

The other thing you need to consider is, does your map look like any other map of a city on CC? Most have territories connected by roads or metro and to be honest, it's being over done. What is it about Philly that is unique that you can translate to a map?

by **fumandomuerte** on Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:24 pm

wow wow, don't be rude, it is only an early draft trying to present an idea.
I don't agree with natty about the amount of territories. Small maps are always welcome for 1 vs. 1 battles

Maybe you should try to divide highway 95 in 2 sections (north & south (?)). You could add other things like an airport, a stadium or parks to increase the appeal of the map

Good look with the project!

by **natty dread** on Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:28 pm

fumandomuerte wrote:wow wow, don't be rude

Nobody is being rude that I can tell.

I don't agree with natty about the amount of territories. Small maps are always welcome for 1 vs. 1 battles

Unfortunately currently maps can't be made with only one game type in mind. Also, the general consensus around the foundry has lately been that CC doesn't really need any more small maps, unless there's some really good and interesting gameplay that makes them worthwhile.

by **fumandomuerte** on Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:39 pm

natty_dread wrote:Also, please don't take this the wrong way, but if this is the extent of your graphical ability, you are going to need to find someone to do the graphics for you... Maps are not made with MS paint.

Well, this section is called "Melting Pot - Map Ideas"... This is the right place to show MS Paint graphics and to ask for cartographic assitance if needed...

by **Z-Rambo** on Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:01 pm

Thanks for the replies to my idea, I appreciate it. The program that I used to make a rough draft of the map is Corel Paint Shop Pro Photo X2. I am very new to that program, thus why it looks like I used MS Paint, sorry about that. I wanted to try and give a small visual of my idea, because the last time I proposed an idea I had no visual and it flopped. I welcome all criticism and proposals to make the map better and play worthy. The idea of splitting the Highways into parts is a good idea and will be adjusted. Also, adding landmarks, such as Independence Hall, The Liberty Bell, The Mega Sports Complex, The Broad Street Express Subway, The Market Street Express Subway/Elevated Train, Eastern State Penitentiary, Fort Mifflin, The Industrial District, The US Mint, The US Regional Post Office, City Hall, Philadelphia International Airport, Northeast Philadelphia Regional Airport, The 9th Street & Passayunk Avenue Cheesesteak War(Geno's -vs- Pats), Betsy Ross House, South Street Night Life, 30th Street Station(SEPTA & AMTRAK), Franklin Mills Mall, The Gallery, and The USS Battleship New Jersey are some ideas I can try and add to the map to give a little more life and add territories. I would appreciate any help and effort from anybody who can guide me through improving the map quality and if Corel is a good program, and if so How to use it efficiently. Philadelphia is near and true to my heart, as it is my birth place and I have grown up there. A lot of historic events have taken place there and it should be a great place to consider for a map. A lot of first have happened there, such as the first Fire Station, the first Modernized Prison, the first Cheesesteak, the first Baseball Team to reach 10000 losses(yes I'm proud of my Phillies, lol), and considered the Birth Place of America, as it was the first Capital of the United States, just to name a few and there are plenty more historical sites and events that can help improve the map to make it come to fruition.

Thanks Again,

Z-Rambo

by **natty dread** on Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:27 pm

I know nothing of Corel, but didn't Cairnswk use Corel draw? Perhaps you could ask him for advice.

For one thing, make your next draft larger. The large version of the map can be 840x800 pixels, so you have plenty of room. Making a larger draft helps to get your idea across, as people don't need to squint their eyes to see the territories & other features...

by **fumandomuerte** on Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:32 pm

I have Paint Shop Pro 7 and Corel Paint Shop Pro X but I suck teaching others how to use them (I need to be physically with my "student"). I can help you with the landmarks (I can make some vectorized icons if you want to, just post the images to start working on them).
When I was working on a few -now abandoned :mrgreen:

- projects I used to create vector layers with raster duplicates, that way I didn't lose quality when resizing the map from the small image (I always started with that) to the big one.

by **gannable** on Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:43 pm

i live in the philadelphia area so i wish this would come to fruition

i think it should include south jersey, bucks, montgomery, delaware counties as well - the entire Delaware Valley.

by **Z-Rambo** on Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:02 am

Here's a look at the new map I generated. Hopefully it looks better and everybody likes the idea. I have expanded it from not just Philadelphia, but including the entire Delaware Valley. This is now a Delaware Valley Map. Let me know what you think. Thank You!

by **TaCktiX** on Thu Mar 25, 2010 1:49 am

It's an improvement, but you've got several different themes going on at once. You've got the serif font in the bottom left, the paper mache river, the dirt-track territories, and the hand-drawn highway lines. None of them fit together at all, though I can tell this was for getting something out there and you haven't refined anything yet.

Biggest concern is the size of the map. It's WAY too big for a small, and most first-time mapmakers start with the small map so they know their map is readable from the smaller size required. In fact, it's too big for the large. Please take time to drop the size significantly. Also, I would suggest using JPG or PNG as your output filetype, as they retain quality better than a GIF. GIF's are only used on CC when a mapmaker added animation (which is very few maps, Conquer Man being the one that springs to mind).

Gameplay-wise, it's still a bit small. As stated, unless it's something crazy novel or original, small maps aren't the way to go. Aim for a medium-size map with around 40 territories (Classic itself is 42). You certainly have the map space to make that a reality, so partition your present territories with new boroughs, regions, etc. from the Philly region.

Finally, the map has no Soul to it. It looks generic, and that's not what you want to aim for I'm certain. There are a lot of things about Philadelphia that set it apart. Off the top of my head, I can think of the Philly Cheese Steak, the Liberty Bell, its epithet as the City of Brotherly Love, and its constantly-remodeling airport (sorry, bad bad bad experience with that airport). Play up those aspects. Someone made the reference to Chicago. Notice how it has the EL Train on there, the Chicago regional transport. It's a bonus, as well as another way to get around the map. That's what people mean when they say add unique flavor to the map. Turn unique features into bonuses, or some sort of gameplay addition. Make what is unique about the city what makes the map unique as well.

by **natty dread** on Thu Mar 25, 2010 4:50 am

Tactix pretty much said everything I had to say about this, so I'll just be quiet and hum to myself in the corner...

by **Industrial Helix** on Thu Mar 25, 2010 7:37 am

Hmm... interesting that you went for the tri-state area rather than philly. I might be a good way to go. You should name the roads by their routes, imo.

I don't mind another small map though. Actually, after a count, if you've got the roads counting as territories, you've got 35, which is pretty standard. Without road its 22. 22 Migh tbe a tad smaller though I have no problem if you brought it up to 30ish.

As for soul... you've got the delaware, maybe some Appalachians, forest, ect. There's a lot of potential for this region, not to mention Philadelphia was significant on numerous historical occasions... I've got a soft spot for historical maps

Good luck!

by **Z-Rambo** on Fri Apr 02, 2010 2:50 am

As I am trying to come up with a more improved map, what should I take into perspective? Should I go with a tourist style and go with places like Geno's & Pat's Steaks, Liberty Bell, Independence Mall, Penn's Landing, etc. or should I go with a more historic approach and include places such as Fort Mifflin, Valley Forge, Washington Crossing, Eastern State Penitentiary, etc. or should I go retro and incorporate both perspectives together, possibly expanding such a map to 50-60 locations? Thanks for your opinions and help.

by **Industrial Helix** on Fri Apr 02, 2010 6:19 am

Personally, I prefer historical. But I doubt you need to expand the map to 50-60 territories.

by **Teflon Kris** on Fri Apr 02, 2010 8:47 am

natty_dread wrote:
fumandomuerte wrote:wow wow, don't be rude

Nobody is being rude that I can tell.

I don't agree with natty about the amount of territories. Small maps are always welcome for 1 vs. 1 battles

Unfortunately currently maps can't be made with only one game type in mind. Also, the general consensus around the foundry has lately been that CC doesn't really need any more small maps, unless there's some really good and interesting gameplay that makes them worthwhile.

!!