Does the rest of the world really hate America?

[PLAYER57832]

Sure, Europe each European nation is also diverse, but our sheer size means we have more.

mmmm... "sheer size" doesn't necessarily mean more diverse in thinking.

I also believe that as media takes on a new role of putting forth viewpoints rather than merely reporting news, our national thinking is becoming less diverse but more polar. I think that is also true of Europe. In this, it would be similar to other largely populous countries/cultures where only one viewpoint is spewed by the media.

Except more and more people get their information from the internet, where diverse thought is very much present.

In general, the media is latching onto and pushing only certain types of thinking; 'liberal' or 'conservative' which has really become the polarized versions of each (Would you say someone is liberal who doesn't believe in abortion, or would you say someone is conservative who doesn't believe in God? Few would; most would follow the media vomit about those perspectives.) A in general, most humans are followers, not leaders. So, in general, you have one group of people following the so-called 'liberal press' and another group of people following the so-called 'conservative press' that, in order to sell itself, the 'media' has turned into a polarized war.

Travel the country, talk to people/observe and you will get a much better idea.

But back to the topic? Yeah, much of the world really hates America, and in some measure we've earned that hatred. At the same time, much of the world respects the America that used to be or could be again, but does not necessarily respect the America that currently is (anymore than many so-called Americans respect America anymore.)

We have earned hatred and respect both, at different times and sometimes even at the same time.

Being everyone's "friend" cannot and should not be our goal. However, at one point, even our enemies respected us more than today.

[joecoolfrog]

America is better.

I think you are prooving my point, not stepping on it.

We've been the most prosperous

Proof? Financially you arent doing that well and havent been for some time.

most athletic

I rarely ay people are wrong because there is normally truth is most peoples point of view but this statement is absolute rubbish. In sports, when you play internationally you dont tend to win. (Neither do we but i am not making such a claim) In war, you win by vast amounts of numbers and money thrown at the enemy, not through training.

bravest

Again, rubbish. I dont doubt an American's bravery but i would never say your country is any braver than any other.

most innovative

There is SOME truth in this statement. America has been a very innotive and free thinking country, or was at least. But many other countries have matched including Tim Berners Lee's creation of the WWW.

We paid for the world's freedom to aspire to our level of success with our blood.

This is a metter of opinion and one i do not share. A lot of countries have spilled blood over the years. I have never seen any battle/ war or country have anything to doing with the worlds freedome. Only greed, religion or a mix of the two.

Im sorry Viper, but YOU are very much the reason why people often feel negatively towards America where as thegreekdog argues with intelligence and respect.

There's too many flat out lies in your points to bother dignifying them.

You mean you are incapable of answering with genuinly intelligent comments. There is a difference.

Oh and there are no lies in my statement. Infact i didnt state that many facts mostly opinion which cannot in itself be a lie. Unless i wasnt being honest with my opinion, which of course i was.

So crawl back to your hole and let the grownups discuss.

There are a lot of people, both in America, UK and else where who have made valid arguments for and against America. You viper are not one of them.

Just because an 'opinion' is misleading and not an outright lying about a fact is merely splitting hairs. You sit there and pretend that other countries have been equally brave when that's B.S. It's always been American life on the line when the world is in trouble. Countries like France, Germany and Russia cowered when terrorism peaked. So if you're going to try and brush that type of stuff under the rug then yes I have absolutely nothing that I need to say to you. You're a coward.

I was a bit confused there as the Russians, French and Germans have been fighting terrorism at home rather longer than the USA ...... but then I realised that you were talking about the invasion of
Iraq. The idea that anybody still believes that the war had anything to do with terrorism is yet another comic gem , you really are wonderfuly entertaining

PS I dont doubt that the American soldier is as valiant as any other but the idea that America as a country is brave is rather a stretch , I can give you plenty of examples where the CIA encouraged and bribed others to do its fighting.

[ViperOverLord]

Germany, France, Russia have all obstructed efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan at times. The Russians have sold weapons to Iraq knowing they'd be used by groups like Hezbollah or in the war against us. Spain pulled out of Afghanistan after the train bombing. There's a difference between those that talk the talk and those that walk it. And I don't give a flying f about your bs about Iraq and your willingness to discredit our efforts there. I know that we weren't fighting flower ticklers there.

We were fighting extremists committed to the death of innocent people and that was seen every day as they blew up women and children. If you want to be an ignorant pile of dung then I will gladly speak to you like you got flies buzzing around you.

And don't give me that crap about mercinaries. I could care less who the CIA has hired. JFK had his Bay of Pigs. I don't fault the concept just because he did not get the results.

[Dariune]

Germany, France, Russia have all obstructed efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan at times. The Russians have sold weapons to Iraq knowing they'd be used by groups like Hezbollah or in the war against us. Spain pulled out of Afghanistan after the train bombing. There's a difference between those that talk the talk and those that walk it. And I don't give a flying f about your bs about Iraq and your willingness to discredit our efforts there. I know that we weren't fighting flower ticklers there.

We were fighting extremists committed to the death of innocent people and that was seen every day as they blew up women and children. If you want to be an ignorant pile of dung then I will gladly speak to you like you got flies buzzing around you.

And don't give me that crap about mercinaries. I could care less who the CIA has hired. JFK had his Bay of Pigs. I don't fault the concept just because he did not get the results.

This, ladies and gentleman, is the direct result of working classic media propoganda. Normally people are able to develop their own opinions. But in some cases people sucumb and become zombies. They are normally last seen in a budget zombie movie called dawn of the mindless dead part 262

[Pedronicus]

The Hezbollah Movement in Iraq (Arabic: حركة حزب الله في العراق‎) is a Shi'a Islamist, Iraqi political party that is part of the United Iraqi Alliance coalition. It is not affiliated with the Lebanese group Hezbollah or other groups using th ename. Hezbollah, or more literally Hizb Allah (‮حزب الله‬), means "Party of God" in Arabic.

The party publishes the Al-Bayyna newspaper and is led by Hassan Al-Sari. Hezbollah originated as an underground anti-Saddam network. Unlike other anti-Saddam groups it remained based in Iraq, not setting up shop in Iran or the west. The party is closely alligned to the Islamic Supreme Council of Iraq, previously known as the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq.

Viper, those flies are swarming around your bullshit like an impenetrable black cloud

[ViperOverLord]

Germany, France, Russia have all obstructed efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan at times. The Russians have sold weapons to Iraq knowing they'd be used by groups like Hezbollah or in the war against us. Spain pulled out of Afghanistan after the train bombing. There's a difference between those that talk the talk and those that walk it. And I don't give a flying f about your bs about Iraq and your willingness to discredit our efforts there. I know that we weren't fighting flower ticklers there.

We were fighting extremists committed to the death of innocent people and that was seen every day as they blew up women and children. If you want to be an ignorant pile of dung then I will gladly speak to you like you got flies buzzing around you.

And don't give me that crap about mercinaries. I could care less who the CIA has hired. JFK had his Bay of Pigs. I don't fault the concept just because he did not get the results.

This, ladies and gentleman, is the direct result of working classic media propoganda. Normally people are able to develop their own opinions. But in some cases people sucumb and become zombies. They are normally last seen in a budget zombie movie called dawn of the mindless dead part 262

Actually you are the zombie. If you knew anything you'd know that the media has condesceded to the war efforts from the start. It has been that way since even WWII (in some cases) but most notably since Vietnam. That's why they say the hardest war to win is in the media. It is you that have bought their spew. I'm not the ignorant one that can't admit their are mass murderers that want to kill us in the name of their religion.

FAIL

[tzor]

Germany, France, Russia have all obstructed efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan at times. The Russians have sold weapons to Iraq knowing they'd be used by groups like Hezbollah or in the war against us. Spain pulled out of Afghanistan after the train bombing. There's a difference between those that talk the talk and those that walk it. And I don't give a flying f about your bs about Iraq and your willingness to discredit our efforts there. I know that we weren't fighting flower ticklers there.

I think you have brought up two completely different problems here. On the one hand, the motives of "national profit" especially in terms of economic self interest often are at odds with the problems the world faces as a whole. France, for example, did everything they could to weaken the sanctions against Iraq before the war because it was in their economic self interest to do so. Until recent events made it so obvious that even a bear could not pretend they did not exist, Russia was more than happy to go to bat for Iran in exchange for profitable economic exchanges in nuclear technology and weapons. There are also good examples where these same economic self interests guided the US foreign policy, to equally disasterous results.

This is completely different from the tendency of some European nations to be ... well for want of a better term ... whimps. Spain, who has been fighting home grown terrorism for ages, totally whimped out afte rthe train bombings. Then again, Spain has mostly been in hiding since at least the Spanish American war ... let me check on that ...

Spain remained neutral throughout World War I between 28 July 1914 – 11 November 1918
The Spanish State under General Franco was officially non-belligerent during World War II
On 30 May 1982, NATO gained a new member when, following a referendum, the newly democratic Spain joined the alliance

Yes, "mostly in hiding" is a good term for Spain.

[ViperOverLord]

The Hezbollah Movement in Iraq (Arabic: حركة حزب الله في العراق‎) is a Shi'a Islamist, Iraqi political party that is part of the United Iraqi Alliance coalition. It is not affiliated with the Lebanese group Hezbollah or other groups using th ename. Hezbollah, or more literally Hizb Allah (‮حزب الله‬), means "Party of God" in Arabic.

The party publishes the Al-Bayyna newspaper and is led by Hassan Al-Sari. Hezbollah originated as an underground anti-Saddam network. Unlike other anti-Saddam groups it remained based in Iraq, not setting up shop in Iran or the west. The party is closely alligned to the Islamic Supreme Council of Iraq, previously known as the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq.

Viper, those flies are swarming around your bullshit like an impenetrable black cloud

You're so full of crap...Hezbollah was the dudes fighting in Lebanon just about a year ago. Get over yourself.

[Pedronicus]

You said Hezbollah in Iraq.

You weren't talking about Hezbollah in Lebanon.

I'm only talking about what you wrote.

[ViperOverLord]

You said Hezbollah in Iraq.

You weren't talking about Hezbollah in Lebanon.

I'm only talking about what you wrote.

Fine. Miscommunication.

[ViperOverLord]

Here's the bottom line. Iraq is/was a mess in one way or another. But we paid to remove and evil tyrant who was killing millions. And I'm not going to argue the merit of it with ass clowns. If someone's still fixated on Iraq they have an agenda. They can't even admit that a free Iraq is better off than they were 10 years. I don't have need for those people. They're jackasses and bold faced liars.

[Dariune]

Germany, France, Russia have all obstructed efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan at times. The Russians have sold weapons to Iraq knowing they'd be used by groups like Hezbollah or in the war against us. Spain pulled out of Afghanistan after the train bombing. There's a difference between those that talk the talk and those that walk it. And I don't give a flying f about your bs about Iraq and your willingness to discredit our efforts there. I know that we weren't fighting flower ticklers there.

We were fighting extremists committed to the death of innocent people and that was seen every day as they blew up women and children. If you want to be an ignorant pile of dung then I will gladly speak to you like you got flies buzzing around you.

And don't give me that crap about mercinaries. I could care less who the CIA has hired. JFK had his Bay of Pigs. I don't fault the concept just because he did not get the results.

This, ladies and gentleman, is the direct result of working classic media propoganda. Normally people are able to develop their own opinions. But in some cases people sucumb and become zombies. They are normally last seen in a budget zombie movie called dawn of the mindless dead part 262

Actually you are the zombie. If you knew anything you'd know that the media has condesceded to the war efforts from the start. It has been that way since even WWII (in some cases) but most notably since Vietnam. That's why they say the hardest war to win is in the media. It is you that have bought their spew. I'm not the ignorant one that can't admit their are mass murderers that want to kill us in the name of their religion.

FAIL

Viper your arguments are literally beginning to lose their coherency. The media certainly did not condemn the war efforts for ww2 in any cases.

Give me an example where something i have said could be definitively described as spew.

Think about what you just said for a moment. Of course there are people out there who are willing to kill a lot of innocents for what they believe to be a greater cause. But none of my arguments have even touched on that subject. I have merely disputed your statement that America is the bravest nation in the world.

FAIL

Using this as your closing argument has taught be alot about you.

[Timminz]

The Hezbollah Movement in Iraq (Arabic: حركة حزب الله في العراق‎) is a Shi'a Islamist, Iraqi political party that is part of the United Iraqi Alliance coalition. It is not affiliated with the Lebanese group Hezbollah or other groups using th ename. Hezbollah, or more literally Hizb Allah (‮حزب الله‬), means "Party of God" in Arabic.

The party publishes the Al-Bayyna newspaper and is led by Hassan Al-Sari. Hezbollah originated as an underground anti-Saddam network. Unlike other anti-Saddam groups it remained based in Iraq, not setting up shop in Iran or the west. The party is closely alligned to the Islamic Supreme Council of Iraq, previously known as the Supreme Council for Islamic Revolution in Iraq.

Viper, those flies are swarming around your bullshit like an impenetrable black cloud

You're so full of crap...Hezbollah was the dudes fighting in Lebanon just about a year ago. Get over yourself.

Reading fail!

[joecoolfrog]

Here's the bottom line. Iraq is/was a mess in one way or another. But we paid to remove and evil tyrant who was killing millions. And I'm not going to argue the merit of it with ass clowns. If someone's still fixated on Iraq they have an agenda. They can't even admit that a free Iraq is better off than they were 10 years. I don't have need for those people. They're jackasses and bold faced liars.

You seem to be overplaying your hand now , satire needs to be slightly believable or else it doesn't work , this latest effort seems more like the rantings of a right wing nut case

[joecoolfrog]

Germany, France, Russia have all obstructed efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan at times. The Russians have sold weapons to Iraq knowing they'd be used by groups like Hezbollah or in the war against us. Spain pulled out of Afghanistan after the train bombing. There's a difference between those that talk the talk and those that walk it. And I don't give a flying f about your bs about Iraq and your willingness to discredit our efforts there. I know that we weren't fighting flower ticklers there.

I think you have brought up two completely different problems here. On the one hand, the motives of "national profit" especially in terms of economic self interest often are at odds with the problems the world faces as a whole. France, for example, did everything they could to weaken the sanctions against Iraq before the war because it was in their economic self interest to do so. Until recent events made it so obvious that even a bear could not pretend they did not exist, Russia was more than happy to go to bat for Iran in exchange for profitable economic exchanges in nuclear technology and weapons. There are also good examples where these same economic self interests guided the US foreign policy, to equally disasterous results.

This is completely different from the tendency of some European nations to be ... well for want of a better term ... whimps. Spain, who has been fighting home grown terrorism for ages, totally whimped out afte rthe train bombings. Then again, Spain has mostly been in hiding since at least the Spanish American war ... let me check on that ...

Spain remained neutral throughout World War I between 28 July 1914 – 11 November 1918
The Spanish State under General Franco was officially non-belligerent during World War II
On 30 May 1982, NATO gained a new member when, following a referendum, the newly democratic Spain joined the alliance

Yes, "mostly in hiding" is a good term for Spain.

Yes there are two tragedies at play , the first is that national and economic interests almost always take precedence over what is morally or ethically correct, all nations are guilty of this.
The second of course is that some people are so blinded by patriotism that they cannot recognise or refuse to accept the first tragedy.

[Baron Von PWN]

Here's the bottom line. Iraq is/was a mess in one way or another. But we paid to remove and evil tyrant who was killing millions. And I'm not going to argue the merit of it with ass clowns. If someone's still fixated on Iraq they have an agenda. They can't even admit that a free Iraq is better off than they were 10 years. I don't have need for those people. They're jackasses and bold faced liars.

Even if as a result of the invasion Iraq get's a funtioning liberal democracy(like we all have in the west, yes even the USA is a liberal Democracy) there are still big problems with it. The invasion established a terrible precedent, basicly the message the invasion sends is that its ok to invade another country for its own good. You can even do this if a large portion of the world disagrees with you all you need is the power to do so.

This causes a bit of a problem, it completely undermined years of goodwill the USA had built up and tell's other nations that if American leadership realy wants to it will invade you even if it has to make up a reason. Other nation states see this and think... "hmm maybe I should watch my back or the US might decide its for my own good to invade me" and they start to invest more heavily in arms they might even decide "if the US can why can't I?" as Russia did in Abkhazia and South Osetia a few summers ago.

Now for the time being this might not cause many problems, the USA has massive military supperiority in nearly all feilds against almost any conceivable oponent or even any combination of opponents (possible exception being Russia in terms of ICBMs. the US has superiority but it isin't massive as Russia could most likely wipe out most of the USA if it came to neucular war). However in the long term as other nations gain economic power this may change and when that happens the USA might wish it had cooler heads at the helm.

[Baron Von PWN]

Germany, France, Russia have all obstructed efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan at times. The Russians have sold weapons to Iraq knowing they'd be used by groups like Hezbollah or in the war against us. Spain pulled out of Afghanistan after the train bombing. There's a difference between those that talk the talk and those that walk it. And I don't give a flying f about your bs about Iraq and your willingness to discredit our efforts there. I know that we weren't fighting flower ticklers there.

I think you have brought up two completely different problems here. On the one hand, the motives of "national profit" especially in terms of economic self interest often are at odds with the problems the world faces as a whole. France, for example, did everything they could to weaken the sanctions against Iraq before the war because it was in their economic self interest to do so. Until recent events made it so obvious that even a bear could not pretend they did not exist, Russia was more than happy to go to bat for Iran in exchange for profitable economic exchanges in nuclear technology and weapons. There are also good examples where these same economic self interests guided the US foreign policy, to equally disasterous results.

This is completely different from the tendency of some European nations to be ... well for want of a better term ... whimps. Spain, who has been fighting home grown terrorism for ages, totally whimped out afte rthe train bombings. Then again, Spain has mostly been in hiding since at least the Spanish American war ... let me check on that ...

Spain remained neutral throughout World War I between 28 July 1914 – 11 November 1918
The Spanish State under General Franco was officially non-belligerent during World War II
On 30 May 1982, NATO gained a new member when, following a referendum, the newly democratic Spain joined the alliance

Yes, "mostly in hiding" is a good term for Spain.

Probably a good thing as spain would have likely fought on the other side in both conflicts. (Not as confident with ww1 but for sure ww2)

[Titanic]

Germany, France, Russia have all obstructed efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan at times. The Russians have sold weapons to Iraq knowing they'd be used by groups like Hezbollah or in the war against us. Spain pulled out of Afghanistan after the train bombing. There's a difference between those that talk the talk and those that walk it. And I don't give a flying f about your bs about Iraq and your willingness to discredit our efforts there. I know that we weren't fighting flower ticklers there.

I think you have brought up two completely different problems here. On the one hand, the motives of "national profit" especially in terms of economic self interest often are at odds with the problems the world faces as a whole. France, for example, did everything they could to weaken the sanctions against Iraq before the war because it was in their economic self interest to do so. Until recent events made it so obvious that even a bear could not pretend they did not exist, Russia was more than happy to go to bat for Iran in exchange for profitable economic exchanges in nuclear technology and weapons. There are also good examples where these same economic self interests guided the US foreign policy, to equally disasterous results.

This is completely different from the tendency of some European nations to be ... well for want of a better term ... whimps. Spain, who has been fighting home grown terrorism for ages, totally whimped out afte rthe train bombings. Then again, Spain has mostly been in hiding since at least the Spanish American war ... let me check on that ...

Spain remained neutral throughout World War I between 28 July 1914 – 11 November 1918
The Spanish State under General Franco was officially non-belligerent during World War II
On 30 May 1982, NATO gained a new member when, following a referendum, the newly democratic Spain joined the alliance

Yes, "mostly in hiding" is a good term for Spain.

Probably a good thing as spain would have likely fought on the other side in both conflicts. (Not as confident with ww1 but for sure ww2)

Yer, especially for WWII, and Spain would likely have taken Gibraltar of the British if they joined the axis which would have had devastating consequences in the Meditarranean.

[saxitoxin]

Reading this thread is like watching two troupes of chimpanzees fling 60 year old feces at each other.

That said, there are a lot of people who have the standing to raise legitimate issue with the United States, such as Falko, etc. However, residents of a sycophantically servile US client state - the UK - are not among them. As a disinterested observer I note only my bemusement that they're the first to start pounding their chests in these type of discussions.

They say when you're being raped you can either scream loudly or lay back and enjoy it. Since the screaming loudly schtick isn't working, maybe Britons need to just lay back and enjoy it?

[Dariune]

Reading this thread is like watching two troupes of chimpanzees fling 60 year old feces at each other.

That said, there are a lot of people who have the standing to raise legitimate issue with the United States, such as Falko, etc. However, residents of a sycophantically servile US client state - the UK - are not among them. As a disinterested observer I note only my bemusement that they're the first to start pounding their chests in these type of discussions.

They say when you're being raped you can either scream loudly or lay back and enjoy it. Since the screaming loudly schtick isn't working, maybe Britons need to just lay back and enjoy it?

Lol surely that gives the uk residents even more reason to be displeased no?

But then from the nature of your posts, your view can be, to an extent, discredited by the fact that you seem to have a problem with the uk in general.

[saxitoxin]

But then from the nature of your posts, your view can be, to an extent, discredited by the fact that you seem to have a problem with the uk in general.

take it from me the kettle, pot, you are so very black ...

[joecoolfrog]

Reading this thread is like watching two troupes of chimpanzees fling 60 year old feces at each other.

That said, there are a lot of people who have the standing to raise legitimate issue with the United States, such as Falko, etc. However, residents of a sycophantically servile US client state - the UK - are not among them. As a disinterested observer I note only my bemusement that they're the first to start pounding their chests in these type of discussions.

They say when you're being raped you can either scream loudly or lay back and enjoy it. Since the screaming loudly schtick isn't working, maybe Britons need to just lay back and enjoy it?

Saxi Old Chap
I worry that some of your recent comments have lacked a certain even handed quality , I firmly trust that no inducements have been proffered , velvet slippers perhaps

[saxitoxin]

Reading this thread is like watching two troupes of chimpanzees fling 60 year old feces at each other.

That said, there are a lot of people who have the standing to raise legitimate issue with the United States, such as Falko, etc. However, residents of a sycophantically servile US client state - the UK - are not among them. As a disinterested observer I note only my bemusement that they're the first to start pounding their chests in these type of discussions.

They say when you're being raped you can either scream loudly or lay back and enjoy it. Since the screaming loudly schtick isn't working, maybe Britons need to just lay back and enjoy it?

Saxi Old Chap
I worry that some of your recent comments have lacked a certain even handed quality , I firmly trust that no inducements have been proffered , velvet slippers perhaps

I've noted elsewhere, the nature of my residency status predicates the exercise of a level of courteous reserve in my comments about the United States.

[Dariune]

But then from the nature of your posts, your view can be, to an extent, discredited by the fact that you seem to have a problem with the uk in general.

take it from me the kettle, pot, you are so very black ...

To the contrary. I have made it very clear from start to finish of this debate and in my more recent post about pride in your country that i have no issues with Americans or America. I have issues with people like Viper for their failing grasp on reality and "We are better than you" attitude.

Perhaps you should take the time to read my posts?

[saxitoxin]

But then from the nature of your posts, your view can be, to an extent, discredited by the fact that you seem to have a problem with the uk in general.

take it from me the kettle, pot, you are so very black ...

To the contrary. I have made it very clear from start to finish of this debate and in my more recent post about pride in your country that i have no issues with Americans or America. I have issues with people like Viper for their failing grasp on reality and "We are better than you" attitude.

Perhaps you should take the time to read my posts?

Perhaps you should take the time to write posts worth reading?