'society of cooks' [cleared]lv

[Checco]

Accused:

mpjh
CyberAddict
Charle

The accused are suspected of:

Conducting Secret Diplomacy

Game number(s):

Game 7382007

Comments: Well, just read the log; we start this terminator 6 ppl no FoW game, and the log shows clearly how in the first 3 turns these 3 guys in the same clan never ever attacked each other, even when it would have been useful to spare troops to get the card, focusing only upon the guys not in the 'society'.

when I write several questions about their choices, I first receive no answer, and in the next turn two of them start 'timidly' to take 1-tank territory from the other, by no means compromising their numbers or positioning.

In round 6 (the current), CyberAddict's numbers and positioning would have allowed him to wipe out Charle (getting 4 cards during an escalating terminator), just see for yourselves, yet he didn't.

This definitely looks like an organized game to me, so blatant that I could not avoid reporting it.

I also ask you if it's possible to foe an entire clan, I do not trust either their tactics or the 'explanations' wrote by blue, which have nothing to say about my accusations.

game Game 7053749, the same 3 guys basically doing the same, starting attacking one of the others only from round 5

game Game 7382008, the same thing until round 3 before mpjh taking 1-tank territory from Charle, then they battle each other always for trading cards (even rarely, they usually choose a target outside their 'trio')

[chemefreak]

I thought the Society only operated in private games to teach others how to play a certain map? If they are communicating in some way in an open game, outside the chat, I don't think that is legal. Looks interesting.

[Checco]

I thought the Society only operated in private games to teach others how to play a certain map? If they are communicating in some way in an open game, outside the chat, I don't think that is legal. Looks interesting.

I did not even know this society existed nor what they did, but just using the game finder 5 minutes to track their past games allowed me to show 2 more 'bizarre' situations.

I guess I can dig more to prove my point if requested.

[brian fletcher]

Maybe if you joined SoC, you would realise how the game is taught in there. Also your rank will improve as you will play the game properly.
No way there is any secret diplomacy.

[Checco]

I have no problems with guys teaching the game to anyone.

My problems arise when I see the 'organized' and 'clanmates' behaviour I reported above, and your post does nothing to explain it otherwise, save for writing that your own opinion is different.

By the way, if by 'gaining rank by playing the game properly' you mean 'enter a clan where members help each other in mixed and competitive games with non-members', you are not helping me or anyone, for that's what I'm seeing.

Besides, I was a Major before starting playing Terminators, so more than advices I'd maybe need to return playing Assassin, especially if Terminator games feature this kind of events.

[Denise]

when I write several questions about their choices, I first receive no answer, and in the next turn two of them start 'timidly' to take 1-tank territory from the other, by no means compromising their numbers or positioning.

This is how escalating games are played, or should be. This is what these guys teach in the SOC. No attacks, other than taking 1's for a card, are made for several rounds. When cards are worth 25 or so, the attacking begins. If you join the SOC, you too can learn how to play and win in this bizarre way.

In round 6 (the current), CyberAddict's numbers and positioning would have allowed him to wipe out Charle (getting 4 cards during an escalating terminator), just see for yourselves, yet he didn't.

You are mistaken, here. CyberAddict would have had 17 troops to take 17 over 4 territories. That is not enough.

[Checco]

This is how escalating games are played, or should be. This is what these guys teach in the SOC. No attacks, other than taking 1's for a card, are made for several rounds. When cards are worth 25 or so, the attacking begins. If you join the SOC, you too can learn how to play and win in this bizarre way.

As much as I'm honored to read this invaluable piece of advice from a true veteran (sigh, I really feel dwarfed by such a display of deep strategy ), I have also to reveal you that it's not just known by basically 90% of the crowd, but that nowhere is suggested to attack guys NOT members of your clan.

What's is being discussed here is an accusation of secret diplomacy, so I'd be grateful if you could stop trying to make the thread derail towards 'strategy', even if the accused are members of your clan (this is true for other 'society of cooks' members as well). Thanks.

If you want to contribute, write explanations about why the few times the accused guys attacked, they always chose someone out their group, for turns. Repeatedly. In more than one game.

I hope I'm not asking too much respect telling you to post only replies related to the accusation.

Edit: Oh by the way, blue could definitely kill yellow, yellow had 14-15 troops (just received 3), blue had to just make a big deploy on Montreal and leave the Bangkok-hong kong-istanbul troops to finish off what little yellow had there.

I'm not answering more thread-diluting replies until a hunter comes, help me keep it clean for him.

[Commander62890]

I have also to reveal you that it's not just known by basically 90% of the crowd, but that nowhere is suggested to attack guys NOT members of your clan

I'm sorry, but this is basically illegible.

What's is being discussed here is an accusation of secret diplomacy, so I'd be grateful if you could stop trying to make the thread derail towards 'strategy'...

Strategy is a huge part of this misunderstanding. It explains why they only took 1s through the first... what? Probably 8 rounds?

...even if the accused are members of your clan (this is true for other 'society of cooks' members as well). Thanks.

I think you are a little bit confused as to how the SoC operates... as far as I know, this is not exactly a super-close-knit group of competitive gamers who defend each other to the death. It is not at all my intention to knock the SoC, of course; I'm just saying it's not like you're facing 3 members of a competitive clan. Do you understand what I'm getting at? This is more of a social group than a clan, and I hope you keep that in mind as you continue to discuss this alleged secret alliance.

If you want to contribute, write explanations about why the few times the accused guys attacked, they always chose someone out their group, for turns. Repeatedly. In more than one game.

I'm not going to look into it further... I'll save that for others

I suppose it's always possible that secret diplomacy has occurred... I simply find it highly unlikely, and probably extremely difficult to prove.




EDIT: Oh, and one more thing... please note that there are 614 members of the SoC... it's possible that they don't even know the others are members

[eddie2]

well said Commander62890 i think the op should join the society because they are playing escalating the way it should be played

[lord voldemort]

I'm not answering more thread-diluting replies until a hunter comes, help me keep it clean for him.

Cleared there is a reason these guys are in society of cooks....cause they are generally not the best players.
Bad play/Play that does not appear correct to you does not equal secret diplomacy.

[Bruceswar]

I'm not answering more thread-diluting replies until a hunter comes, help me keep it clean for him.

Cleared there is a reason these guys are in society of cooks....cause they are generally not the best players.
Bad play/Play that does not appear correct to you does not equal secret diplomacy.

Actually in this case it is the other way around. These guys played well, and the way it should be played. But yeah cleared none the less.

[lord voldemort]

well true...in this case i cant see them making a bad move personally...but im not the best escalating tactician going around

[Checco]

I'm not answering more thread-diluting replies until a hunter comes, help me keep it clean for him.

Cleared there is a reason these guys are in society of cooks....cause they are generally not the best players.
Bad play/Play that does not appear correct to you does not equal secret diplomacy.

Fine then...

But it's not their gampelay that apeared wrong to me, it was their fixed choice of targets.

Whatever.

[wacicha]

You do not have to join SoC. But here is a quick rundown of our first 4 moves. Sometimes it helps to know the stratigy the others are using.

Click on the word show for a more detailed explanation.

Your first four moves.

1st turn Deploy only, Do not attack the first turn unless you have 3 out of 4 territories on the small 2 Continents

- Reason -

Spoiler

In an Escalating game it is all about cards and men. But the cards are not as important as the men in the first 2 or 3 turns. Think of it more like you have cards but the other guy is keeping them for you.
then fortify a different spot than where you deployed if it is 1 fort or everywhere you can if it is unlimited fort.

Do not ever try to take and hold Europe (Classic Shapes map blue Classic Art map purple), North America (Both maps green), or Asia (Both maps red). (Africa (Both maps brown) is even iffy but can sometimes be done by a better player)

-Reason - You will be to spread out to properly hold and will spend all your men and effort retaking and fortifying the larger continents and will not be able to take out a weaker player because you are in one area instead of building on 2 or 3 different area's around the map.

2nd turn start to build 2 to 4 strong groups. You may now take easy cards, I.e. attack 1's but no more than twice. Try to never loose more than 2 of the 3 you deployed.

-Reason-

Spoiler

The key is to be strong in all parts of the map or more so to be easily mobile to all parts of the map.

On the Classic Shapes map N4 and N5 is the most important territories in USA not both just 1. In Asia it is A2 and A1. Not both just one.
On the Classic Art map HARING and JHONS is the most important territories in USA not both just 1.In Asia it is NEWMAN and GUSTON. Not both just one.
Other starting points can and will at times be used but these are the most strategic paces to hold.

Every time you log into game you need to know who is the weakest player and do they have enough cards to be worth taking out.

3rd turn is much like the 2nd but now we are looking to start to move to the key places to hold if we are not already in them.

-Reason-

Spoiler

again we move by taking easy cards and advancing. Mobility is important! A large pile of troops blocked in with only one way out does you little good.

Every time you log into game you need to know who is the weakest player and do they have enough cards to be worth taking out.

4th turn easy card and now the plays of other players are more defined. This means we look at who we think we can start setting up to take out first.

-Reason-

Spoiler

Players fighting over bonuses or over attacking will be lower on points by now giving you an idea on who you can set up first. At this point you can start to take note of their placement on the map compared to your own and what it would take for you to get to them.

Every time you log into game you need to know who is the weakest player and do they have enough cards to be worth taking out.


What does "Every time you log into game you need to know who is the weakest player and do they have enough cards to be worth taking out." mean you ask?

Spoiler

1st don't pass up a easy kill another player could not finish because you were in a hurry.
2nd if they could not finish they are weak as well.
3rd killing someone for 10 points and no cards while weaking your troop level will lead to you being the next out.
4th other players gaining cards is a good thing for you, after all when you take them you can cash them for more troops to take more cards and so on.
5th there is no sweeter thing than logging in to see you have position and troop strength on someone with 5 cards and everyone else has large groups of cards setting you up to sweep the board by rolling card cashes.

Be sure you look over the membership list and take care NOT TO JOIN GAMES WITH MEMBERS IN YOUR CLASS, teachers are ok. Have fun!

[Checco]

I'm not the best player around, but it does not take a champion to see that your 'analysis' of the first canonic moves is completely flawed, as it does not take into consideration enemy mistakes, bad rolls, skipped turns (basicaly every kind of randomness which always shows) or more simply other players acting in a way different from the one you described.

Also, the outcome of most Escalating Terminator games I have seen and played is rooted upon who can actually start a killing spree, and that could depend from the fact you can or cannot play a set on 4th to 6th turn, usually when someone else either failed a kill or is temporarely a viable target (the exact number of troops is not important as long as you have a good distribution AND the chance to play a set at the right time, the rest is almost speculation imo).

To be honest, your written strategy, while elaborate, looks like very unrealistic and hard to apply to me.

I hope you took your time to post something thinking to either teach or debate, because I cannot honestly say whether

Be sure you look over the membership list and take care NOT TO JOIN GAMES WITH MEMBERS IN YOUR CLASS, teachers are ok. Have fun!

is a mockery or an advice.

[Darwins_Bane]

you know....just cuz u have a strategy, doesnt mean everyone follows the same one. the setup above is a general guideline, its good for starters. As you play more games, you develop a more evolved understanding (hopefully) and from it comes a more complex strategy. ppl still need to learn. if i get a noob in my game i tell them almost the exact same thing. if they listen, it makes the game more interesting, fun, and all around easier to bear because i am less likely to be noobed.

[brian fletcher]

Of course there are times when it doesnt always work out when using that strategy. However, in the long run, it has been proved the best way to win more points than you lose. Depending on your rank, you have to only elimininate 1 person to have a net gain in points. Eliminate 2-3 and almost guaranteed to increase points even if a much higher rank.
Im guessing that a non SoC player weakened you and that was likely your downfall when others targetted you, until you was finally finished off.

[wacicha]

Of course sir it is not meant for someone of your Caliber. It is meant for the BRAND NEW PLAYER. In a escalating terminator game The new player does not Have to win---He only has to eliminate 1 Player to get his points and advance him slowey up to LT. Which Graduates him.

This gives the NEW PLAYER a chance of NOT getting Pounded on by all the Good Players (like yourself)

Then after they graduate they go on to enjoy the Site. Although the Strategy may seem FLAWED to someone of your Caliber - it is an easier lesson for the NEW PLAYER.

[Bruceswar]

I'm not the best player around, but it does not take a champion to see that your 'analysis' of the first canonic moves is completely flawed, as it does not take into consideration enemy mistakes, bad rolls, skipped turns (basicaly every kind of randomness which always shows) or more simply other players acting in a way different from the one you described.

It is not rocket science to see a program like this has worked, is working, and will keep working. 95 of 100 times this plan works out nicely. For those other times it can be modded to work out.

Also, the outcome of most Escalating Terminator games I have seen and played is rooted upon who can actually start a killing spree, and that could depend from the fact you can or cannot play a set on 4th to 6th turn, usually when someone else either failed a kill or is temporarely a viable target (the exact number of troops is not important as long as you have a good distribution AND the chance to play a set at the right time, the rest is almost speculation imo).

Timing is always key. If you are not in the right spot in line you sometimes stand no chance. Though with the laid out plans it make you be in better situations more often than not. If per say you think "Hey I can take Aussie since I have 1 spot in it." That means you will at least need to kill 9 men assuming nobody drops any men within Aussie. So to do that you likely need 3 or 4 turns and 12 men at least. Now that you have burned up 12 men and 4 turns, you are already behind. To make up 12 men you would have to go 6 more rounds. That puts you at round 10 before you break even. By then cashes if the game is still going are over 30. 2 men are pretty much worthless now. It is true though you want to keep spread out. Makes you harder to kill and also makes you have more ways to kill others.

To be honest, your written strategy, while elaborate, looks like very unrealistic and hard to apply to me.

This strategy can be applied to everybody from the 300 point cook willing to follow it, to the number 1 player. It is just how escalating is played. The quicker you understand that, the quicker you will win more.

I hope you took your time to post something thinking to either teach or debate, because I cannot honestly say whether

Be sure you look over the membership list and take care NOT TO JOIN GAMES WITH MEMBERS IN YOUR CLASS, teachers are ok. Have fun!

is a mockery or an advice.

This is a simple rule we have within the teaching ground. Students are asked not to join any other games with students from their own class room as we post game advice in the SOC forum on moves. This keeps other students from looking at each others game plan. That statment has no barring on any games in any way shape or form of diplomacy. And this advice does not hold any value to anybody who is outside the SOC area.


That should fully explain how things work.

[the.killing.44]

Gotta love the bashing of a time-tested strategy.

[lord voldemort]

quite clearly not the place.....take it somewhere else thanks