Sun Spots and extreem weather

[Crazy Fish]

Does anyone think there is a relationship between the current high level of solar activity and the recent extreme weather events that have been happening around the world?

[Army of GOD]

inb4 "Global Warming", "2012" and "you's a sexy fish"


Also, I'm not really sure if we're having "extreme" weather relative to the history of humanity (people these days blow shit out of proportion, so just because a bunch of people are running around yelling about the falling sky, I'm not going to instantly believe them) but I did hear something about the solar activity. Though, I don't really think it would affect our weather system...I heard it'd mess with the Earth's magnetic field or something.

[BigBallinStalin]

Does anyone think there is a relationship between the current high level of solar activity and the recent extreme weather events that have been happening around the world?

There's a correlation but no cause-and-effect relationship.

[Timminz]

Does anyone think there is a relationship between the current high level of solar activity and the recent extreme weather events that have been happening around the world?

There's a correlation but no established cause-and-effect relationship.

[Army of GOD]

[derp="Timminz"]

Does anyone think there is a relationship between the current high level of solar activity and the recent extreme weathe

r events that have been happening around the world?

There's a correlation but no established cause-and-effect relationship.[/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote][/quote]

There's also a correlation between my age and the weather. GLOBAL WARMING 2012!!!!!!oneoneoneoneeleven!!!!

[patches70]

Does anyone think there is a relationship between the current high level of solar activity and the recent extreme weather events that have been happening around the world?

The extreme weather is no less or no more than it has ever been, period.

Here-

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 26630.html

A recent study to find out if indeed the weather is getting more extreme. Come to find out, it's not.

Human perce3ption is limited. There has always been extreme weather. There always will be. Some days will be nice and mild, and every once in a while things get bad. The study is using data from 1871 until now and found that nothing has changed in so far if the weather is more extreme or not.

[Army of GOD]

G00d j06 p4tch3s

[patsfan12]

JS i watched a show on history or science channel and it said sun spot activity will increase until 2016 and cause for strange weather patterns

they said expect colder snowier winters

and more active tropical seasons

[Barramundi Dan]

Much research has been carried out in relation to this.

"Subtle connections between the 11-year solar cycle, the stratosphere, and the tropical Pacific Ocean work in sync to generate periodic weather patterns that affect much of the globe, according to research appearing this week in the journal Science. The study can help scientists get an edge on eventually predicting the intensity of certain climate phenomena, such as the Indian monsoon and tropical Pacific rainfall, years in advance"

Check out this web site

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 141349.htm

[natty dread]

What you global warming denialists fail to realize is that you are just playing in the pockets of Big Oil, who have spent millions in marketing etc. to spread misinformation about the global warming. After all, if carbon emissions are limited, oil companies lose a shitload of money.

http://www.edf.org/article.cfm?ContentID=4870

In 1998, Exxon devised a plan to stall action on global warming. The plan was outlined in an internal memo that promised, "Victory will be achieved when uncertainties in climate science become part of the conventional wisdom" for "average citizens" and "the media." (Read the memo [PDF].)

The company would recruit and train new scientists who lack a "history of visibility in the climate debate" and develop materials depicting supporters of action to cut greenhouse gas emissions as "out of touch with reality."

Also this: http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/2007/ ... of_the.php


So ask yourself, do you want to be a talking puppet of oil companies, helping them sacrifice the future of our children just to make a few more dollars, or do you want to do something that could actually make our world a better place? Your choice.

[PLAYER57832]

Does anyone think there is a relationship between the current high level of solar activity and the recent extreme weather events that have been happening around the world?

The extreme weather is no less or no more than it has ever been, period.

Here-

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... 26630.html

A recent study to find out if indeed the weather is getting more extreme. Come to find out, it's not.

Human perce3ption is limited. There has always been extreme weather. There always will be. Some days will be nice and mild, and every once in a while things get bad. The study is using data from 1871 until now and found that nothing has changed in so far if the weather is more extreme or not.

The problem with that argument is that our world is such a vast and complex system that by the time a truly statistically notable increase happens... it will already be very, very, very bad for humanity.

Let me give you just ONE example from our history. The "dust bowl" hardly had an impact world-wide, but very much contributed to the Great Depression and, in turn it could be argued the WW.

Another, far milder, example is the impact of all the build-up on the central valley of California. I can remember when you could tell who was "local" attending the Sacrametno state fair because we would be walking around with heavy coats in 100 degree summer weather. We knew that by nightfall, the winds would come in through the delta and temps would drop to the low 60's, if not lower. A few years ago, I went back and it stayed over 80 all night. I thought it was an abberration, but I was told it has been that way for some time because the winds, currents are now blocked.

When I was younger, I remember hearing that we "did not need to worry", because the projections showed, at most a quarter of a degree change. (this was a few decades ago.. LONG before All Gore came onto the scene for those who like to claim he created this issue) The thing is, a quarter of a degree change on a world wide scale is phenonmenal. Just 1 degree of increase is all it would take to reverse the jet stream, etc. That would bring another ice age onto Europe.

[maasman]

The problem with that argument is that our world is such a vast and complex system that by the time a truly statistically notable increase happens... it will already be very, very, very bad for humanity.

Let me give you just ONE example from our history. The "dust bowl" hardly had an impact world-wide, but very much contributed to the Great Depression and, in turn it could be argued the WW.

Another, far milder, example is the impact of all the build-up on the central valley of California. I can remember when you could tell who was "local" attending the Sacrametno state fair because we would be walking around with heavy coats in 100 degree summer weather. We knew that by nightfall, the winds would come in through the delta and temps would drop to the low 60's, if not lower. A few years ago, I went back and it stayed over 80 all night. I thought it was an abberration, but I was told it has been that way for some time because the winds, currents are now blocked.

When I was younger, I remember hearing that we "did not need to worry", because the projections showed, at most a quarter of a degree change. (this was a few decades ago.. LONG before All Gore came onto the scene for those who like to claim he created this issue) The thing is, a quarter of a degree change on a world wide scale is phenonmenal. Just 1 degree of increase is all it would take to reverse the jet stream, etc. That would bring another ice age onto Europe.

Pshhhh, low 60's, HA. You californians and your "cold" temperatures.

[PLAYER57832]

Pshhhh, low 60's, HA. You californians and your "cold" temperatures.

I live in PA now. We just had 15 below in town, without windchill factored.

But, when you have been walking around in 100+ and it drops to 60... you tend to need a jacket. I don't care who you are!

[as a side note, I remember one February day when I was talking to my mom and mentioned how unusually warm it was here. She complained about how unusually cold and miserable it was there. The temperature? In both areas, 50 degrees! ]

[AAFitz]

What you global warming denialists fail to realize is that you are just playing in the pockets of Big Oil, who have spent millions in marketing etc. to spread misinformation about the global warming. After all, if carbon emissions are limited, oil companies lose a shitload of money.

http://www.edf.org/article.cfm?ContentID=4870

In 1998, Exxon devised a plan to stall action on global warming. The plan was outlined in an internal memo that promised, "Victory will be achieved when uncertainties in climate science become part of the conventional wisdom" for "average citizens" and "the media." (Read the memo [PDF].)

The company would recruit and train new scientists who lack a "history of visibility in the climate debate" and develop materials depicting supporters of action to cut greenhouse gas emissions as "out of touch with reality."

Also this: http://scienceblogs.com/denialism/2007/ ... of_the.php


So ask yourself, do you want to be a talking puppet of oil companies, helping them sacrifice the future of our children just to make a few more dollars, or do you want to do something that could actually make our world a better place? Your choice.

I do, but so far they have denied my request for another planet to go live on after this planet becomes uninhabitable.

Exxons plan is pathetic to what Bush did for his Oil buddies, by hiring Young Earth Creationists who would summarily discount all scientific evidence older than 6000 years, when they feel the earth snapped into existence.

The irony of the situation is that if Global warming does cost lives, and if we ignore the changes to avoid it, those people ignoring it because of their belief in God, will partially be responsible for more lives needlessly killed than any other humans to walk the planet. At that point, one can only hope their truly is an afterlife, so they can indeed see what they have done.

[KoE_Sirius]

(people these days blow shit out of proportion)

SO TRUE

[patches70]

The OP asserts that weather is getting more extreme. Actual scientific studies show the contrary.

However, you have a story-

Another, far milder, example is the impact of all the build-up on the central valley of California. I can remember when you could tell who was "local" attending the Sacrametno state fair because we would be walking around with heavy coats in 100 degree summer weather. We knew that by nightfall, the winds would come in through the delta and temps would drop to the low 60's, if not lower. A few years ago, I went back and it stayed over 80 all night. I thought it was an abberration, but I was told it has been that way for some time because the winds, currents are now blocked.

Wow! Well that proves it, the weather is getting more extreme after all. I wonder how those scientists got it wrong? All they had to do was go to you and saved themselves a lot of time by not needing any actual objective evidence and based their study on your subjective perception.

But we better do something quick!

Just 1 degree of increase is all it would take to reverse the jet stream, etc. That would bring another ice age onto Europe.

Oh no! Another ice age? We can't have that, we better do something to stop it! Oh, wait, ice ages are a natural part of the Earth's cycle. You know, there is not a damn thing we could ever hope to do to actually keep an ice age from coming. There will be another ice age eventually, regardless of anything we do. It would worry more if the Earth was actually heating up, but since it is cooling, I can just go back to dumping my used motor oil into the local river.

Look you give another example of some global warming-

The "dust bowl"

Ya, the dust bowl certainly wasn't caused by over farming the land and not renewing it. We didn't know as much back then as we do now on how to prevent such things to a degree that we can.

You remind me of that actor guy (Danny Glover) who in an interview right after the Haiti earthquake and he said the Earthquake was caused by Global warming. I didn't know global warming affected tectonic movement. Well, I suppose I learn something new every day.

If the weather is getting more extreme, whatever that means, then do your own scientific study proving it and submit it for peer review.

Till then, keep your jacket handy or the next Ice Age will get ya!

[AAFitz]

The OP asserts that weather is getting more extreme. Actual scientific studies show the contrary.

However, you have a story-

Another, far milder, example is the impact of all the build-up on the central valley of California. I can remember when you could tell who was "local" attending the Sacrametno state fair because we would be walking around with heavy coats in 100 degree summer weather. We knew that by nightfall, the winds would come in through the delta and temps would drop to the low 60's, if not lower. A few years ago, I went back and it stayed over 80 all night. I thought it was an abberration, but I was told it has been that way for some time because the winds, currents are now blocked.

Wow! Well that proves it, the weather is getting more extreme after all. I wonder how those scientists got it wrong? All they had to do was go to you and saved themselves a lot of time by not needing any actual objective evidence and based their study on your subjective perception.

But we better do something quick!

Just 1 degree of increase is all it would take to reverse the jet stream, etc. That would bring another ice age onto Europe.

Oh no! Another ice age? We can't have that, we better do something to stop it! Oh, wait, ice ages are a natural part of the Earth's cycle. You know, there is not a damn thing we could ever hope to do to actually keep an ice age from coming. There will be another ice age eventually, regardless of anything we do. It would worry more if the Earth was actually heating up, but since it is cooling, I can just go back to dumping my used motor oil into the local river.

Look you give another example of some global warming-

The "dust bowl"

Ya, the dust bowl certainly wasn't caused by over farming the land and not renewing it. We didn't know as much back then as we do now on how to prevent such things to a degree that we can.

You remind me of that actor guy (Danny Glover) who in an interview right after the Haiti earthquake and he said the Earthquake was caused by Global warming. I didn't know global warming affected tectonic movement. Well, I suppose I learn something new every day.

If the weather is getting more extreme, whatever that means, then do your own scientific study proving it and submit it for peer review.

Till then, keep your jacket handy or the next Ice Age will get ya!

The dust bowl was indeed caused by the farming practices of the time.

Another ice age is without a doubt likely to occur again because of natural causes. However, it is very clear by pouring billions of tons of C02 into the atmosphere, we could very well trigger it earlier than it would have occurred.

More importantly, if one is coming whether or not it is caused by humans is certainly enough to act upon it, and since the earlier ice ages were preceded by high levels of C02 in the atmosphere, its pretty easy to take caution by not adding C02 into the atmosphere. More importantly, technological gains are nearly exponential, so while perhaps we do not have the technology to reverse such a catastrophic event as a total ice age, but that does not mean we would not acquire it in enough time, and it is certainly possible that if we work to insure we do not contribute to the problem as soon as possible, that such an event could be minimized.

In the end, the cost of not taking global warming seriously, is possibly every human life on the planet. The cost of trying to fight one of the major causes, is people working to develop new technologies to prevent it. No doubt expensive as hell, but so is a heart transplant, but some still decide that amount is worth the expense....

I will most certainly die of natural causes too eventually, that does not mean I want to speed up the process.

[HapSmo19]

...do you want to be a talking puppet of oil companies, helping them sacrifice the future of our children just to make a few more dollars, or do you want to do something that could actually make our world a better place?

What the hell are you talking about? lol

Is your computer made outta hemp or something?

[patches70]

In the end, the cost of not taking global warming seriously, is possibly every human life on the planet. The cost of trying to fight one of the major causes, is people working to develop new technologies to prevent it. No doubt expensive as hell, but so is a heart transplant, but some still decide that amount is worth the expense....

I will most certainly die of natural causes too eventually, that does not mean I want to speed up the process.

Oh, sure, Fitz, we just gotta be careful and not just jump into things out of fear that the Global Warming crowd tries to instill into people. We will end up just making things worse.

For example, in the 70's there was a program called "The Green Revolution". The purpose of the program was to help India grow enough food to feed their almost one billion people. Lots of farming techniques were introduced and above all, modern fertilizers.
At first, the program did well and India's food output soared. Well, then the unthinkable happened. They have over fertilized and ruined massive amounts of prime growing land. It back fired on them, and considering today's food prices, (India is suffering from double digit food inflation today), it is going to be catastrophic.

Same thing can happen if we just start trying to throw every hair-brained idea at global warming without considering the realities, including economic realities, before hand. This takes a careful approach and there is no place for emotional and fear mongering so often perpetrated by the global warming nuts.

Preventing or minimizing the next ice age, are we even sure that would be a good idea in the first place? We human beings survived one ice age already, in fact, we thrived and expanded because of it. We should not go mucking around with the Earth's natural cycles on a whim.

We will survive the next one and the one after that and so on. That is, if we don't kill ourselves off first.

CO2 is considered a pollutant. It is not a pollutant to the trees and plants. It is an important trace gas. We go messing up the balance, one way to the other, we go messing up a lot of other things that people don't consider which brings up a whole new host of problems to be dealt with.

Besides, no one is addressing the OP and that the weather is not getting more extreme at all. Despite solar flares (which go in 11 year cycles BTW), or global warming or any other thing we try to pin on why some tornado just carried off my favorite Niece to the Land Of OZ.

[tkr4lf]

In the end, the cost of not taking global warming seriously, is possibly every human life on the planet. The cost of trying to fight one of the major causes, is people working to develop new technologies to prevent it. No doubt expensive as hell, but so is a heart transplant, but some still decide that amount is worth the expense....

I will most certainly die of natural causes too eventually, that does not mean I want to speed up the process.

Oh, sure, Fitz, we just gotta be careful and not just jump into things out of fear that the Global Warming crowd tries to instill into people. We will end up just making things worse.

For example, in the 70's there was a program called "The Green Revolution". The purpose of the program was to help India grow enough food to feed their almost one billion people. Lots of farming techniques were introduced and above all, modern fertilizers.
At first, the program did well and India's food output soared. Well, then the unthinkable happened. They have over fertilized and ruined massive amounts of prime growing land. It back fired on them, and considering today's food prices, (India is suffering from double digit food inflation today), it is going to be catastrophic.

Same thing can happen if we just start trying to throw every hair-brained idea at global warming without considering the realities, including economic realities, before hand. This takes a careful approach and there is no place for emotional and fear mongering so often perpetrated by the global warming nuts.

Preventing or minimizing the next ice age, are we even sure that would be a good idea in the first place? We human beings survived one ice age already, in fact, we thrived and expanded because of it. We should not go mucking around with the Earth's natural cycles on a whim.

We will survive the next one and the one after that and so on. That is, if we don't kill ourselves off first.

CO2 is considered a pollutant. It is not a pollutant to the trees and plants. It is an important trace gas. We go messing up the balance, one way to the other, we go messing up a lot of other things that people don't consider which brings up a whole new host of problems to be dealt with.
Besides, no one is addressing the OP and that the weather is not getting more extreme at all. Despite solar flares (which go in 11 year cycles BTW), or global warming or any other thing we try to pin on why some tornado just carried off my favorite Niece to the Land Of OZ.

Which is exactly what we have done. With the industrial revolution, we have poured tons more CO2 into the atmosphere than would have been had we humans not been burning fossil fuels.

Don't take this the wrong way. I don't really care one way or the other. Personally, I think we are a bane on the planet. Human life is sacred...blah blah blah. No, it isn't. It's just life. Just like all the other life on the planet.

Honestly, I hope something major does happen and every human gets wiped out of existance. Then again, I'm a bit of a misanthrope.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgbEYSbyepM
^ Maynard says it perfectly.

[PLAYER57832]

The OP asserts that weather is getting more extreme. Actual scientific studies show the contrary.

No, they don't. However, you would have to be able to understand them to know that.

If the weather is getting more extreme, whatever that means, then do your own scientific study proving it and submit it for peer review.

Too late! Articles already written and endorsed by virtually ALL the scientists in the field. But again, if you only want to look at regurgitated interpretations from your favorite "source"... you might not know that. The general media got a LOT of it wrong.

There are very few things about which 99.99% of scientists in the field of
climatology agree. That the Earth's climate is changing is one of them. Of those who disagree, a good number are not even climatologists and several others are in the pay of oil companies. Most, though have not really done studies, they just pick and choose data or intentionally twist things (like trying to say that a snowstorm in Washington is some kind of "proof' that them models have failed)

Here, for example:

-

The "dust bowl"

Ya, the dust bowl certainly wasn't caused by over farming the land and not renewing it. We didn't know as much back then as we do now on how to prevent such things to a degree that we can.
!

You don't even get that this is the point. Human action on just a very small section of land altered the local climate enough to contribute to the great depression.

[patches70]

There are very few things about which 99.99% of scientists in the field of
climatology agree. That the Earth's climate is changing is one of them.

Duh! No shit the climate changes. It always has. Only an idiot fails to recognize that. What there is disagreement about is exactly how much is caused by humans and how much is just natural. No one can answer that with any certainty. And that is what, as you say, "There are very few things about which 99.99% of scientists in the field of climatology agree".

No, they don't.

Um, yes, the article about the study I provided does.

Too late! Articles already written and endorsed by virtually ALL the scientists in the field. But again, if you only want to look at regurgitated interpretations from your favorite "source"... you might not know that. The general media got a LOT of it wrong.

My favorite source eh?

Here, this is the source, these are the guys who say that the weather is not more extreme than any other time during the entire 20th century. If people think that global warming is causing more extreme weather phenomenon, then go tell it to these guys.
http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7mBC ... 0thC_Rean/

They are just going back and not cherry picking data! That is what has been wrong all along anyway. Didn't the climate gate e-mails clue you off at all about some of the problems from the UN based global warming research?

These guys are part of the Commerce Department and NOAA. They aren't a bunch of people who are out to disprove global warming, but just looking at the data and actually applying it to common misconceptions.

Go ahead and provide your sources saying that the weather is indeed getting more extreme than from the past 140 years.

Human action on just a very small section of land altered the local climate enough to contribute to the great depression.

Numbnut, the dust bowl had nothing to do with climate! The farmers, in their ignorance, leeched out all the nutrients in the farm land so that nothing would grow, not even grass. All is left is dirt, a bunch of dry dirt that gets swept up in the wind.

The dustbowl difference from global warming is that we can look at it, know exactly what went wrong and know exactly how to fix it. Not just shots in the dark or assumptions, or hopes or guesses, like is the case with global warming.

Regardless, the US has stringent environmental laws already. It is not the US that needs the convincing, you should take your act on the road and convince the Chinese and the Russians and all the other 3rd world countries who are building up industrialization of their countries and convince them to limit their carbon foot print.

Good luck with that!

[PLAYER57832]

There are very few things about which 99.99% of scientists in the field of
climatology agree. That the Earth's climate is changing is one of them.

Duh! No shit the climate changes. It always has. Only an idiot fails to recognize that. What there is disagreement about is exactly how much is caused by humans and how much is just natural. No one can answer that with any certainty. And that is what, as you say, "There are very few things about which 99.99% of scientists in the field of climatology agree".

They don't HAVE to agree on the exact percentages. It is clear the changes are harming humans and that we are, if not the sole cause, making the situation a lot worse.

No, they don't.

Um, yes, the article about the study I provided does.

No, not really.
and, anyway, it takes more than 1 person's results to counter 1000 others.

Too late! Articles already written and endorsed by virtually ALL the scientists in the field. But again, if you only want to look at regurgitated interpretations from your favorite "source"... you might not know that. The general media got a LOT of it wrong.

My favorite source eh?

Here, this is the source, these are the guys who say that the weather is not more extreme than any other time during the entire 20th century. If people think that global warming is causing more extreme weather phenomenon, then go tell it to these guys.
http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0oG7mBC ... 0thC_Rean/

They are just going back and not cherry picking data! That is what has been wrong all along anyway. Didn't the climate gate e-mails clue you off at all about some of the problems from the UN based global warming research?

The differences are not yet statistically significant enough to prove any one particular even is not directly tied to climate change.

EXCEPT.. that seems to have JUST CHANGED. Since a British team seems to have tied increased rainfall to climate change. But, as I said before.. that is just one study and we'll have to see.

These guys are part of the Commerce Department and NOAA. They aren't a bunch of people who are out to disprove global warming, but just looking at the data and actually applying it to common misconceptions.

lol.. yeah. I used to work with some of that group.

Go ahead and provide your sources saying that the weather is indeed getting more extreme than from the past 140 years.

You are missing the point. It doesn't matter.

Human action on just a very small section of land altered the local climate enough to contribute to the great depression.

Numbnut, the dust bowl had nothing to do with climate! The farmers, in their ignorance, leeched out all the nutrients in the farm land so that nothing would grow, not even grass. All is left is dirt, a bunch of dry dirt that gets swept up in the wind.

EESSh
OK.. let me spell it out.

HUMANS caused the dustbowl. The dust bowl WAS a climate change. Humans caused that climate change. Not as grand as the entire world, but there it is.

ALSO... there was more to it than just dry dirt getting swept up by the wind. But, hey.. go read up on it yourself. I did.. oh, quite a bit, in fact.

The dustbowl difference from global warming is that we can look at it, know exactly what went wrong and know exactly how to fix it.

Not entirely, no. We do know a good part of it, but it was also on a much smaller scale.

Regardless, the US has stringent environmental laws already.

[/quote]

NO, we do not.

[Army of GOD]

PLAYER and patches, you guys together would make a supreme sitcom duo.

I'll talk to a major network and see if I can get a spot. I'll play that wacky kid that leaves down the street and has a crush on your daughter (who'll be played by Tisha). Saxitoxin can be your jock son and pimpdave will be the cute 3 year old boy that says innocent, silly things every once in a while.

[Army of GOD]

Oh, and jonesthecurl can get us donuts when we're not filming because we all know he isn't very funny.