Is it time to Revolt against the United States?

[jefjef]

The Arab League secretary general, Amr Moussa, startled western governments when he denounced the air attacks only a week after the league had called for creation of a no-fly zone.

Moussa, who is a candidate for the Egyptian presidency, said: "What has happened in Libya differs from the goal of imposing a no-fly zone and what we want is the protection of civilians and not bombing other civilians."

The Foreign Office later said Moussa claimed he had been misquoted, or had put his criticism more strongly in Arabic than in English. "We will continue to work with our Arab partners to enforce the resolution for the good of the Libyan people," the FO said.

[comic boy]

I agree with most of what you have said but you are wrong about Obama , he has actually played it very well and it is only your extreme bias that indicates otherwise. What was imperative was that a broad coalition was in place as it was essential that any action was not viewed as simply US aggression , this took time as certain European and Arab countries needed a degree of persuasion.
What you view as an unwaranted delay was not caused by the dithering of Obama , rather it was the result of the previous blundering by Bush and Blair , the consequencies of which have caused others to be wary.

Some delay was warranted to make sure all of our people got out of the country while they had an opportunity as well as move possible military assets into the region. That should have taken a maximum of 7-10 days (maybe a few more for the military). It was 32 days before Obama and the UN took actual actions. The difference between Iraq and the current situation in Libya is that people are actively rebelling and getting killed. In a situation like that, quick and decisive actions are necessary, not long-term dithering. In Iraq, there was no active rebellion that needed support.

Im wasting my time with you because you dont want to know but here goes again; There was NO possibility of the USA going it alone , domestic and external opinion would not allow it , a coalition was required and it was putting it together that took the time.

[saxitoxin]

Cross-Post from the Other Thread

Pics from today's Anti-Obama Youth Rally in support of the Libyan people in Belgrade, Europe. On less than 24 hours notice more than 1,000 youth - joined by older members of the community - braved chilly weather to take to the streets to demand peace for the Libyan people.

Western Reporting on This (Or any of the Anti-Obama Rallies Being Coordinated Around the Globe by the International Peace Movement) = 0

[comic boy]

The Arab League secretary general, Amr Moussa, startled western governments when he denounced the air attacks only a week after the league had called for creation of a no-fly zone.

Moussa, who is a candidate for the Egyptian presidency, said: "What has happened in Libya differs from the goal of imposing a no-fly zone and what we want is the protection of civilians and not bombing other civilians."

The Foreign Office later said Moussa claimed he had been misquoted, or had put his criticism more strongly in Arabic than in English. "We will continue to work with our Arab partners to enforce the resolution for the good of the Libyan people," the FO said.

Its just part of the propaganda war, thats the one that the west needs to win in order to have long term stability in the Middle East , guns alone will solve nothing.

[Qwert]

I think that Obama try to get some political points, its will try to present that he bring peace and democraty to Libya, also Sarcozy try same, or if quadafy are right abouth giving money to sarcozy president campaing,then i can understand why they bombarding hes residency in tripoly, because dead mount dont say nothing. These could be serious political scandal in france. Hmm, maybe these could be reason,why sarcozy so desperatly want to start attack on quadafy?

[saxitoxin]

Tweet of the year:



http://twitter.com/#!/LandDestroyer/sta ... 5465687040

[Mr_Adams]

Funny, I was going to post something about this. But my question was this: Do you think that France going in first was to help with US image, or the French image? Or both?

[Pirlo]

Funny how all wars are illegal. Isn't the Libyan government killing its own citizens illegal? By the way, Obama is actually doing the right thing in this situation (except that he was about 3 weeks too late), and he does not plan to send our troops (and maybe even planes) into the country. All we've done so far is use our intelligence and missiles to soften up their built-in defenses. The rebels asked for assistance so we have finally helped. Don't forget, our country wouldn't have earned independence without help from other nations.

Wow - I do not believe I have ever seen a post from you that has declared an Obama desicion to be a correct one (I apologize if you have and I missed it) - What a suprise, however, that it is in regard to a military intervention of another oil-rich middle eastern country. You guys sure love your dead Muslims.

Nothing like spreading a bit of 'liberal democracy' hegemony around the world - Especially when it ends in the death of thousands of civillians

The ARAB LEAGUE was the main push for and requested UN intervention on behalf of the Libyans being slaughtered by Godaffy. Guess you're saying they love dead Muslims too.

No, I am just too cynical to trust any US backed intervention - Why should I believe anything they say? The history of US intervention speaks for itself. If you believe that the US is totally looking after the interests of the Libyan people then you are an ignorant fool. There is a high price oil contract on the line for someone if Gadaffi is removed. I have never, EVER, heard a rebel army in the Middle East being called 'a rebellion' on the mainstream news - They have always been 'insurgents' or 'terrorists' - Why now has the Western Media jumped onto this rebellion's bandwagon? Something stinks -

well stated.

when a little kid in Palestine picks up a stone to fight an Israeli tank, as shown below, the Palestinian kid is labeled as "terrorist". same for any Iraqi who rejects the American occupation of his country. now the US interests require to suspend the term for now and use 'rebel' instead.


and @ jefjef. you are talking as if USA gives a shit to Arab League or any other similar disgrace league or UN which are set to serve the Imperialism.

- AC

[Qwert]

i only can tell that Kosovo Liberation army who ambushing and killing Police , for US also not been Terorist.
Armed Civilian,some time can be Terorist,and some time freedom fighters, you never know how US will define these.

[Hannibał]

Sure you do qwert. Freedom fighter = us supported interest. Terrorist = not us interest. Jamaican shower posse gang at war in jamaica against "socialist" michael manley funded by cia guns and drug trade = freedom fighters, shower posse post cia = drug lord murderers, Osama bin laden fighting soviets = freedom fighter, Osama bin laden fighting to end us occupation = terrorist.

[jefjef]

For those of you who are confused and prefers to side with trash.

This is the definition of a FUCKING TERRORIST:

Libya's ex-justice minister was quoted Wednesday as telling a Swedish newspaper that Libyan leader Moammar Khadafy personally ordered the Lockerbie bombing that killed 270 people in 1988.

"I have proof that Khadafy gave the order about Lockerbie," Mustafa Abdel-Jalil was quoted as saying in an interview with Expressen, a Stockholm-based tabloid.

Abdel-Jalil, who stepped down as justice minister to protest the clampdown on anti-government demonstrations, didn't describe the proof.

Expressen's online edition said its correspondent interviewed Abdel-Jalil outside the local parliament in the Libyan city of Al Bayda.

Khadafy has accepted Libya's responsibility for the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, which killed all 259 people on board and 11 on the ground, and paid compensation to the victims' families. But he hasn't admitted personally giving the order for the attack.

Abdel-Jalil told Expressen that Khadafy gave the order to Abdel Basset al-Megrahi, the only man convicted in the bombing.

"To hide it, he (Khadafy) did everything in his power to get al-Megrahi back from Scotland," Abdel-Jalil was quoted as saying.

Hang your heads low for standing by his side.

[BigBallinStalin]

[Night Strike]

Funny how all wars are illegal. Isn't the Libyan government killing its own citizens illegal? By the way, Obama is actually doing the right thing in this situation (except that he was about 3 weeks too late), and he does not plan to send our troops (and maybe even planes) into the country. All we've done so far is use our intelligence and missiles to soften up their built-in defenses. The rebels asked for assistance so we have finally helped. Don't forget, our country wouldn't have earned independence without help from other nations.

Wow - I do not believe I have ever seen a post from you that has declared an Obama desicion to be a correct one (I apologize if you have and I missed it) - What a suprise, however, that it is in regard to a military intervention of another oil-rich middle eastern country. You guys sure love your dead Muslims.

Nothing like spreading a bit of 'liberal democracy' hegemony around the world - Especially when it ends in the death of thousands of civillians

When Obama announced he was going to have a modest surge in the number of troops in Afghanistan, I applauded that decision, especially since he was one who was against the Iraq surge that ended up working. Of course, he did go ahead and bungle up that decision by not giving the full amount requested by the commanding general as well as announcing a withdraw date, but a positive step was still present. I also believe Obama was the one who gave the order to kill the Somali pirates who had kidnapped a few Americans on a ship, and that was a good decision as well.

I would have to think long and hard for any other positive action.

[radiojake]

For those of you who are confused and prefers to side with trash.

This is the definition of a FUCKING TERRORIST:

Libya's ex-justice minister was quoted Wednesday as telling a Swedish newspaper that Libyan leader Moammar Khadafy personally ordered the Lockerbie bombing that killed 270 people in 1988.

"I have proof that Khadafy gave the order about Lockerbie," Mustafa Abdel-Jalil was quoted as saying in an interview with Expressen, a Stockholm-based tabloid.

Abdel-Jalil, who stepped down as justice minister to protest the clampdown on anti-government demonstrations, didn't describe the proof.

Expressen's online edition said its correspondent interviewed Abdel-Jalil outside the local parliament in the Libyan city of Al Bayda.

Khadafy has accepted Libya's responsibility for the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 over Lockerbie, Scotland, which killed all 259 people on board and 11 on the ground, and paid compensation to the victims' families. But he hasn't admitted personally giving the order for the attack.

Abdel-Jalil told Expressen that Khadafy gave the order to Abdel Basset al-Megrahi, the only man convicted in the bombing.

"To hide it, he (Khadafy) did everything in his power to get al-Megrahi back from Scotland," Abdel-Jalil was quoted as saying.

Hang your heads low for standing by his side.

You know, the world is not made up of the binary opposites that you would have to believe. Just because one person is against NATO intervention in Libya DOES NOT equate to unparralled support for Khadafy - REMOVE YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS and realize that not everything is black or white - Pro or against. This is the way the media presents the terms of modern debate - Any idiot, however, should be able to tell you that there is more to it -

I am dead against NATO intervention, however, because I am certain (and history will back me up) that the interests of few, wealthy elite who will benefit from the intervention will not coincide with the interests of the Libyan people. Not because I view Khadafy as some benelovent leader who is the best person to lead Libya into a prosperous 21st century - However, it is not for me (or the US or EU) to decide who is the best to lead Libya, it is the Libyans themselves.

[Qwert]

Do you realy belive that US will bring freedom and when they remove quadafy from power,that libyan people will be rich and not poor any more. I think that rebelion dont have enough support to owerthrow quadafi, and these is main problem why they start losing war against quadafy.
Iraq dont become reach country after Sadam owerthrow-Afghanistan now are even more poor country, and libyan people will be even poor when democraty come, because US and Other Nato company will take oil for hes work to bring hem democraty, and dont be supprised if Al-qaida start hes terorist action in libya also.

[Pirlo]

Sure you do qwert. Freedom fighter = us supported interest. Terrorist = not us interest. Jamaican shower posse gang at war in jamaica against "socialist" michael manley funded by cia guns and drug trade = freedom fighters, shower posse post cia = drug lord murderers, Osama bin laden fighting soviets = freedom fighter, Osama bin laden fighting to end us occupation = terrorist.

I second this

and f*ck Fox News wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

- AC

[Ray Rider]

Do you realy belive that US will bring freedom and when they remove quadafy from power,that libyan people will be rich and not poor any more. I think that rebelion dont have enough support to owerthrow quadafi, and these is main problem why they start losing war against quadafy.

Now there's something I agree with you about! If the rebels aren't strong enough to permanently rid the country of Gaddafi, the country may end up in a worse situation than when they started. It is something to be seriously concerned about. If Gaddafi does eventually retake his country, the repercussions against the Libyan people will be too brutal to think about; and if he doesn't, the country will likely be engaged in a lengthy civil war which the allies will regret taking part in.

Sure you do qwert. Freedom fighter = us supported interest. Terrorist = not us interest. Jamaican shower posse gang at war in jamaica against "socialist" michael manley funded by cia guns and drug trade = freedom fighters, shower posse post cia = drug lord murderers, Osama bin laden fighting soviets = freedom fighter, Osama bin laden fighting to end us occupation = terrorist.

I second this

and f*ck Fox News wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo

- AC

Too many equals signs; I didn't consider it worth reading.

As for the terrorist labels, I laughed when I read in the news about Gadaffi calling the allied attack "terrorism" lol Yes, it was meant to strike fear into his heart, but no, a forewarned frontal attack by several nations sanctioned by the UN and Arab League targeting armed forces and the genocidal dictator of an Arab nation is not a "terrorist attack!"

Also, the "letter" Gaddafi sent to Obama is very interesting:
TO OUR SON HIS EXCELLENCY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES BARACK HOSSEIN OBAMA
I have said to you before, that even if Libya and the United States of America enter into a war, god forbid, you will always remain a son. Your picture will not be changed. Al-Qaida is an armed organisation, passing through Algeria, Mauritania and Mali. What would you do if you found them controlling American cities with the power of weapons? What would you do, so I can follow your example."

And also for anyone who's interested, here's a comparison of Libya's air force to that of the allies:

Click image to enlarge.

[saxitoxin]

And also for anyone who's interested, here's a comparison of Libya's air force to that of the allies:

zip your pants back up

[Pirlo]

Too many equals signs; I didn't consider it worth reading.

As for the terrorist labels, I laughed when I read in the news about Gadaffi calling the allied attack "terrorism" lol Yes, it was meant to strike fear into his heart, but no, a forewarned frontal attack by several nations sanctioned by the UN and Arab League targeting armed forces and the genocidal dictator of an Arab nation is not a "terrorist attack!"

Also, the "letter" Gaddafi sent to Obama is very interesting:
TO OUR SON HIS EXCELLENCY THE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES BARACK HOSSEIN OBAMA
I have said to you before, that even if Libya and the United States of America enter into a war, god forbid, you will always remain a son. Your picture will not be changed. Al-Qaida is an armed organisation, passing through Algeria, Mauritania and Mali. What would you do if you found them controlling American cities with the power of weapons? What would you do, so I can follow your example."

And also for anyone who's interested, here's a comparison of Libya's air force to that of the allies:

I respect & appreciate your wide knowledge. I assume you read a lot of useful and good books.

however, I should remind you that there is a big difference between the ink we read in the books and the real actions taken on the ground.

1st of all, I don't support Gadafi because I live in this region and speak his language, so I know him more than anybody here on this site.. I surely tell you he's a terrorist. (the real meaning of "terrorist" who kill innocent people). and I'm pretty sure he bribes those who support him. I hear his speeches on TVs and Radios. I hear him calling his people rats because they don't want to blindly obey anymore.

Gadafi used to waste his country income and wealth making dumb projects in Europe and paying compensation for killing innocent people in Scotland bla bla bla bla...

However, I'm not happy with USA intervention due to their awful history in this regard.

don't tell me ARAB LEAGUE and UN please. Arab League has been asking and demanding for stopping the Zionists terrorism in Palestine and no one listens. UN itself said "war on Iraq IS illegitimate" in 2003 and no one listens. I said it before, and again, these organizations are disgrace, set to give a fake legitimacy coverage to imperialism. look at what happen in reality. life is not only books and noble ideals.

- AC

[Mr_Adams]

a cruise missile costs 569K?!? wow, we spend a lot on crap that blows up.

[saxitoxin]

1st of all, I don't support Gadafi because I live in this region and speak his language, so I know him more than anybody here on this site.. I surely tell you he's a terrorist. (the real meaning of "terrorist" who kill innocent people). and I'm pretty sure he bribes those who support him.

I can't believe that's true. Given the sheer numbers of people - in the millions and around the globe - who rally in support of the Colonel, there should be some indication of bribery occurring. That would be too hard to keep secret.

Col. Qadaffi has enunciated an egalitarian and unique worldview. But, he faces the same situation as the nations of the Friendship Pact during the Cold War. Due to the extreme aggression outside forces have aligned against him he is forced to take extraordinary measures to protect the Libyan nation and people. The imperialists use this fact to attack him in their heavily controlled media so they can rally support for their pro-war agenda.

[Night Strike]

a cruise missile costs 569K?!? wow, we spend a lot on crap that blows up.

Have you never bought fireworks for 4th of July?? They're crazy expensive.

And yes, cruise missiles are so expensive because of how damn accurate they are. They can hit within a couple of feet a target that is many miles away. It's crazy.

[pimpdave]

a cruise missile costs 569K?!? wow, we spend a lot on crap that blows up.

Have you never bought fireworks for 4th of July?? They're crazy expensive.

And yes, cruise missiles are so expensive because of how damn accurate they are. They can hit within a couple of feet a target that is many miles away. It's crazy.

But what happens if they spin out of control?


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

[Pirlo]

1st of all, I don't support Gadafi because I live in this region and speak his language, so I know him more than anybody here on this site.. I surely tell you he's a terrorist. (the real meaning of "terrorist" who kill innocent people). and I'm pretty sure he bribes those who support him.

I can't believe that's true. Given the sheer numbers of people - in the millions and around the globe - who rally in support of the Colonel, there should be some indication of bribery occurring. That would be too hard to keep secret.

Col. Qadaffi has enunciated an egalitarian and unique worldview. But, he faces the same situation as the nations of the Friendship Pact during the Cold War. Due to the extreme aggression outside forces have aligned against him he is forced to take extraordinary measures to protect the Libyan nation and people. The imperialists use this fact to attack him in their heavily controlled media so they can rally support for their pro-war agenda.

No saxi, he doesn't have to bribe everyone. he can just bribe few men to run some campaigns.

believe it or not.. this man is insane and USA already knows that. they all hated him, but when he start being friendly with oil corporations, USA & NATO were happy with that. now they just want to get rid of him because he got out of control.

in this call to a news channel, he said that the guys who started the revolution "have got hallucination pills."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWPV8E_0 ... re=related

I still unhappy with NATO intervention though.

also, he's give weapons. it is noticed that his power has recently increased.. (by 'recently', I mean last few days).

- AC

[radiojake]

a cruise missile costs 569K?!? wow, we spend a lot on crap that blows up.

Have you never bought fireworks for 4th of July?? They're crazy expensive.

And yes, cruise missiles are so expensive because of how damn accurate they are. They can hit within a couple of feet a target that is many miles away. It's crazy.

Yes - Perfect for hitting civillian hospitals, schools and shelters. USA all the way!