Conservatism

[Timminz]

ESL?

[Woodruff]

All thing?

Seems too perfect, doesn't it? <laughing>

[Mr_Adams]

Example of partisanship to a stupid degree -

My mum has a very good friend who lives in Virginia and who travels to Washington DC quite often for work. I was talking to her once about American politics and specifically (what I considered) a stupid amount of partisanship that seems to be totally counter-productive.

She told me a story that seems to sum up the ridiculous state of domestic politics in the USA - She had two of her younger cousins (or neice or nephew - doesn't matter) come and stay with her for a couple of weeks who were from a different part of the US. She took them into DC to check out the nation's capital because they were both politics students, and they hadn't been to the nation's capital before. Anyway, they got to the Whitehouse and she asked them if they wanted to go on the tour.

(The following conversation has been paraphrased)

'Oh, God no. We can't go into the Whitehouse!'

'Uhh, why not?'

'Because we are Republicans! We can't walk in there while Bill Clinton is President!' (obviously this was a few years ago)

'You wont go visit the Whitehouse because there is a Democrat in the Presidency?'

'No way!'

Obviously these two twats are not entirely representative of all Americans, and I'm no way suggesting that. I just think this type of partisanship (which seems very evident on this board), is completely counter-productive

I agree. It's not like Coke is trying to murder it's rival Pepsi.
So why is American politics so virulent?

Interesting story. that is really stupid. The sad thing is that the super partisan people are the ones who end up in the leadership of the parties in the long run. that's why the super partisan ship is passed on.

[Symmetry]

All thing?

Seems too perfect, doesn't it? <laughing>

Couldn't help myself.

But yes- conservatism isn't the rejection of intellectualism, it's an intellectual position in its own right. The problem with a lot of modern day conservatism, especially in the US, is the shutting down of intellectual conversation. The number of litmus tests a prospective candidate has to go through in order to simply be nominated is staggering. Liberals do it too, but I would say to a lesser extent.

It looks increasingly like the best candidates for office are the ones who have the least background, commit to nothing, and look pretty. And yes, that applies to Obama too.

Still- the stuff going in on Wisconsin with the targeting of that History professor who criticised Walker's plans is pretty disturbing.

But anyway- a distinction should be made between conservatism and, say Republicans, or Conservatives, even though the line gets blurred easily by both sides.

[PLAYER57832]

But yes- conservatism isn't the rejection of intellectualism, it's an intellectual position in its own right. The problem with a lot of modern day conservatism, especially in the US, is the shutting down of intellectual conversation. The number of litmus tests a prospective candidate has to go through in order to simply be nominated is staggering. Liberals do it too, but I would say to a lesser extent.

This is mostly because the extreme left is effectively "quieted" now. What you see are moderate liberals, even some moderate conservatives being labeled "radical"
(particularly on some social issues, like abortion and homosexuality, where many conservative people take the "get the government out of people's personnal business" stance).. and very conservative, even ultra-right wing (in social issues AND a "no limits to business" stance) folks being labeled as "moderate".

It looks increasingly like the best candidates for office are the ones who have the least background, commit to nothing, and look pretty. And yes, that applies to Obama too.

You think this is a change?

Still- the stuff going in on Wisconsin with the targeting of that History professor who criticised Walker's plans is pretty disturbing.

Its about education and information dissemination. Control the youth, control what people see and you control them.

[notyou2]

AMERICA THE NO LONGER FREE

[spurgistan]

IN RESPONSE TO THE OP:

It takes eight (8) conservatives to change a light bulb. It takes five (5) witches to form a coven in order to ask Ronald Reagan what to do, one (1) man to ignore that, and then one (1) Koch brother to tell John Boehner what to do. Eight.

[MeDeFe]

IN RESPONSE TO THE OP:

It takes eight (8) conservatives to change a light bulb. It takes five (5) witches to form a coven in order to ask Ronald Reagan what to do, one (1) man to ignore that, and then one (1) Koch brother to tell John Boehner what to do. Eight.

I count nine persons there.

5 Witches
1 Ronald Reagan
1 man who ignores it
1 Koch brother
1 John Boehner

So who's not conservative?

[GreecePwns]

IN RESPONSE TO THE OP:

It takes eight (8) conservatives to change a light bulb. It takes five (5) witches to form a coven in order to ask Ronald Reagan what to do, one (1) man to ignore that, and then one (1) Koch brother to tell John Boehner what to do. Eight.

I count nine persons there.

5 Witches
1 Ronald Reagan
1 man who ignores it
1 Koch brother
1 John Boehner

So who's not conservative?

John Boehner does nothing in the end?

[spurgistan]

Ronald Reagan is dead. He's not a person anymore. I actually thought about whether to count him or not.

[natty dread]

Except if it is...



Zombie Reagan!

Zombies are persons too

[Symmetry]

It looks increasingly like the best candidates for office are the ones who have the least background, commit to nothing, and look pretty. And yes, that applies to Obama too.

You think this is a change?

Not a sharp change, but more a sharp increase in those trends. Being put on record saying anything of substance is increasingly likely to bite a candidate in their future. I do think this applies to both sides of the debate, but it seems to have taken hold on the right to a much greater extent.

Energising the base seems to be the key to getting a nomination nowadays. Much as I think Obama tapped into populism with promises he couldn't keep, at least he did so with a message of hope and unity. Conservative candidates are preaching fear and division.

This came up recently in a poll by Public Policy Polling:

"One other note from our Republican primary poll- GOP voters think that the ACORN threat has gone down significantly. In November of 2009 we found 52% of Republicans thought ACORN had stolen the election for Barack Obama in 2008. Now only 25% think the organization will steal the election for him again next year, while 43% think it will not and 32% aren't sure yet."
Here

Bizarre stuff.