22 year old guy, 16 year old girls

[Snorri1234]

i don't think it's necessarily "rape" if it's consensual and one of them is drunk. it could be, but not always.

You are actually incorrect about that. The idea is that someone under the influence cannot make that consensual judgement.

Within reasonable bounds of course. When you're unfit to make any other judgements (driving and/or other actions) you are generally considered unfit to make this particular judgement.

[sheepofdumb]

Winning

You mean bi-winning? Amirite?

[Juan_Bottom]

True story,
There's a junior high school teacher here in Illinois, who also happens to live 10 miles from me. She slept with one of her students, about a million times. I think he's 14....
Anyhoo, she got exactly the same punishment that I got for failure to render aid after a traffic accident involving personal injury or death. The only thing additional she got was the mandatory sex offender registration. Otherwise she had to do the same time in county jail, pay the same amount in fines, same community service, same prohibition. Oddly there was no restrictions placed on how close she can be to children or anything like that. Though as a sex offender she can't work with them anyway.
Her husband said that they are going to stay together.
Weird.

[Hannibał]

Off topic but.. failure to render aid?? Wtf? Are you a paramedic..are you telling me if some idiot crashs into my car, say he's pinned and instead of me trying to help him I worry about myself and whoevers in my car, and he's injured I can be convicted of a crime? Please elaborate

I did a very brief search on this and although it was said to be a law in most states, it was very vauge (a lot of good samaritan law talk thrown in with it).

[Juan_Bottom]

Basically, it's a hit and run charge. As my lawyer said, even he thought that it was written vaguely on purpose. That way if they couldn't nail you for anything else, they could still get that to stick.
I hit a person on a bike with the passenger mirror of this van that I had just bought. It didn't even have plates on it yet. He hit a road sign and rolled into a ditch. I saw the sign flopping and thought that I hit that. And when the sheriff came to talk to me about it an hour later, I told the truth. Because of that, they couldn't make anything really stick. So I got hit with that and some other misdemeanors. I'm a felon; it's a class 4 here in IL.

I just thought it odd that that was equal to repeated statutory rape of her student.

[Hannibał]

Wow..yeah I saw it was a felony charge, that's a damn shame Juan. Makes getting a job real difficult.

And she got equal punishment, even if you hit the guy on purpose she should get more. Sexual predators are uncureable, and yet they just let them right back out on the street to repeat offend.

[BigBallinStalin]

True story,
There's a junior high school teacher here in Illinois, who also happens to live 10 miles from me. She slept with one of her students, about a million times. I think he's 14....
Anyhoo, she got exactly the same punishment that I got for failure to render aid after a traffic accident involving personal injury or death. The only thing additional she got was the mandatory sex offender registration. Otherwise she had to do the same time in county jail, pay the same amount in fines, same community service, same prohibition. Oddly there was no restrictions placed on how close she can be to children or anything like that. Though as a sex offender she can't work with them anyway.
Her husband said that they are going to stay together.
Weird.

Threesome?

<yerk yerk yerk>

[edocsil]

i don't think it's necessarily "rape" if it's consensual and one of them is drunk. it could be, but not always.

You are actually incorrect about that. The idea is that someone under the influence cannot make that consensual judgment.

Hey, if you made the choice to drink you better be willing to live with the consequences. Pisses me off to no end that they call that rape. Hell, sometimes its hard to tell at a party if someones been drinking, and if you happen to head upstairs and then all they have to do is tell someone about it and the guy is SCREWED. No matter what, the guy loses in that. How come it is rape if both parties have been drinking? Just because I have a different set of tools doesn't mean it is the guy doing the forcing. Even if it consensual between two adults, oops, the girl had a bit to drink, must be rape. Well I guess I have raped two women, and my mother has been raped who knows how many times... Seriously, you have a nice dinner, open a bottle of champagne with your girlfriend and its rape?

Yeah, this one always kinda pisses me off.

[mandalorian2298]

If a 22 year old College Senior gets two 16 year old Highschool girls drunk and sleeps with them, what do you call him? What do you think of it? Should it be illegal? Whats your reaction?

It's already illegal and for many good reasons. Getting underaged girls drunk is illegal just for starters.

Sleeping with kids you've gotten drunk? My opinion would not be particularly high.

First off a disclaimer: getting people drunk in order to nail them is pathetic and allowing yourself to get drunk and subsequently nailed by someone you don't like is dumb.

This being said, my question is this: Do you think that guy who does that with 16 year old girls is equally bullet-worthy as the one who does it to a 10 year old?

I'm not asking "Should it be punished harshly in order to make sure that all girls remain virgins 'till their 18th birthday...blah, blah, blah?" I am saying that when I hear about someone sleeping with kids, for example a 10 year old, I feel an intense desire to find that person an pummel him into a blood pulp, wheres when I hear about sixteen year old (or older) girl getting blitzed and nailed by a someone, I think "People are morons incapable of taking responsibility for themselves or others. What else is new?"

[saxitoxin]

If a 22 year old College Senior gets two 16 year old Highschool girls drunk and sleeps with them, what do you call him? What do you think of it? Should it be illegal? Whats your reaction?

It's already illegal and for many good reasons. Getting underaged girls drunk is illegal just for starters.

Sleeping with kids you've gotten drunk? My opinion would not be particularly high.

First off a disclaimer: getting people drunk in order to nail them is pathetic and allowing yourself to get drunk and subsequently nailed by someone you don't like is dumb.

This being said, my question is this: Do you think that guy who does that with 16 year old girls is equally bullet-worthy as the one who does it to a 10 year old?

I'm not asking "Should it be punished harshly in order to make sure that all girls remain virgins 'till their 18th birthday...blah, blah, blah?" I am saying that when I hear about someone sleeping with kids, for example a 10 year old, I feel an intense desire to find that person an pummel him into a blood pulp, wheres when I hear about sixteen year old (or older) girl getting blitzed and nailed by a someone, I think "People are morons incapable of taking responsibility for themselves or others. What else is new?"

In the case of the 16 year old it is immoral - but not unnatural. It's an offense against social norms but not natural law.

In the case of the 10 year old it is both immoral and unnatural as the 10 year old hasn't yet reached sexual maturity. Basically, same thing as if someone had sex with AOG.

Now with ol' Saxi, I haven't made love to a woman over the age of 25 since my 54th birthday. But I've never made love to anyone under the age of 18, even when I was under the age of 18 myself. So, in that case, what time will the two trains reach Chicago? It's definitely something to think about.

[Woodruff]

i don't think it's necessarily "rape" if it's consensual and one of them is drunk. it could be, but not always.

You are actually incorrect about that. The idea is that someone under the influence cannot make that consensual judgment.

Hey, if you made the choice to drink you better be willing to live with the consequences. Pisses me off to no end that they call that rape.

What? I am stunned to hear anyone say this. Please tell me that you're under the age of...oh...14.

Hell, sometimes its hard to tell at a party if someones been drinking, and if you happen to head upstairs and then all they have to do is tell someone about it and the guy is SCREWED. No matter what, the guy loses in that.

No, NOT "no matter what". The intelligent guy who is concerned about his future is smart enough NOT to be having sex under those circumstances.

Yeah, this one always kinda pisses me off.

How unfortunate for you.

[BigBallinStalin]

If a 22 year old College Senior gets two 16 year old Highschool girls drunk and sleeps with them, what do you call him? What do you think of it? Should it be illegal? Whats your reaction?

It's already illegal and for many good reasons. Getting underaged girls drunk is illegal just for starters.

Sleeping with kids you've gotten drunk? My opinion would not be particularly high.

First off a disclaimer: getting people drunk in order to nail them is pathetic and allowing yourself to get drunk and subsequently nailed by someone you don't like is dumb.

This being said, my question is this: Do you think that guy who does that with 16 year old girls is equally bullet-worthy as the one who does it to a 10 year old?

I'm not asking "Should it be punished harshly in order to make sure that all girls remain virgins 'till their 18th birthday...blah, blah, blah?" I am saying that when I hear about someone sleeping with kids, for example a 10 year old, I feel an intense desire to find that person an pummel him into a blood pulp, wheres when I hear about sixteen year old (or older) girl getting blitzed and nailed by a someone, I think "People are morons incapable of taking responsibility for themselves or others. What else is new?"

In the case of the 16 year old it is immoral - but not unnatural. It's an offense against social norms but not natural law.

In the case of the 10 year old it is both immoral and unnatural as the 10 year old hasn't yet reached sexual maturity. Basically, same thing as if someone had sex with AOG.

Now with ol' Saxi, I haven't made love to a woman over the age of 25 since my 54th birthday. But I've never made love to anyone under the age of 18, even when I was under the age of 18 myself. So, in that case, what time will the two trains reach Chicago? It's definitely something to think about.

Is it snowing, raining, or is the weather clear?

[john9blue]

i just find it hard to believe that people's reasoning faculties instantly disappear once they have a sip of alcohol. how drunk does someone have to be before it's "rape" and not "consensual"? part of the blame has to go to the girl for choosing to drink and allowing herself to be taken advantage of. in fact, i'd say that anyone who suggests otherwise is a sexist for holding a double standard towards women. i don't know what happened when you guys were in college, but these days girls don't turn into super-sluts after they've had a few drinks (i mean, if they weren't like that before the drinks )...

[Woodruff]

i just find it hard to believe that people's reasoning faculties instantly disappear once they have a sip of alcohol. how drunk does someone have to be before it's "rape" and not "consensual"? part of the blame has to go to the girl for choosing to drink and allowing herself to be taken advantage of.

I don't disagree with this, and YET...isn't that somewhat similar to the argument that "well she was dressed like she wanted it" or "she shouldn't have been in that part of the city anyway"?

in fact, i'd say that anyone who suggests otherwise is a sexist for holding a double standard towards women. i don't know what happened when you guys were in college, but these days girls don't turn into super-sluts after they've had a few drinks (i mean, if they weren't like that before the drinks )...

Yet that is, in fact, irrelevant. And I think should be.

[mandalorian2298]

Hell, sometimes its hard to tell at a party if someones been drinking, and if you happen to head upstairs and then all they have to do is tell someone about it and the guy is SCREWED. No matter what, the guy loses in that.

No, NOT "no matter what". The intelligent guy who is concerned about his future is smart enough NOT to be having sex under those circumstances.

So you are either saying that a) girls are not capable of being intelligent and should thus be protected by same kind of standards that protect animals or b) that intelligent girls should not be held responsible for their consequences of their own actions because, while sleeping with drunk women is utterly immoral, both getting so drunk that you lose all self-control and sleeping with drunken men are...achievements worthy of praise and admiration?

The problem with today's society is this idiotic victim-fetish. These days calling someone a victim is equivalent to Catholics electing a Pope - that person becomes completely sinless and incapable of error and mere facts can do nothing about it.

[Woodruff]

Hell, sometimes its hard to tell at a party if someones been drinking, and if you happen to head upstairs and then all they have to do is tell someone about it and the guy is SCREWED. No matter what, the guy loses in that.

No, NOT "no matter what". The intelligent guy who is concerned about his future is smart enough NOT to be having sex under those circumstances.

So you are either saying that a) girls are not capable of being intelligent and should thus be protected by same kind of standards that protect animals

Certainly not...where did you get that silly idea?

or b) that intelligent girls should not be held responsible for their consequences of their own actions because, while sleeping with drunk women is utterly immoral, both getting so drunk that you lose all self-control and sleeping with drunken men are...achievements worthy of praise and admiration?

It's difficult to be "intelligent" when under the influence of alcohol. That's the problem.

The problem with today's society is this idiotic victim-fetish. These days calling someone a victim is equivalent to Catholics electing a Pope - that person becomes completely sinless and incapable of error and mere facts can do nothing about it.

I don't at all hold the girls irresponsible in this case (and I don't know how you reached that conclusion), however that does not absolve the males. The fact is that they cannot make that intelligent judgement under the influence of alcohol.

[mandalorian2298]

Hell, sometimes its hard to tell at a party if someones been drinking, and if you happen to head upstairs and then all they have to do is tell someone about it and the guy is SCREWED. No matter what, the guy loses in that.

No, NOT "no matter what". The intelligent guy who is concerned about his future is smart enough NOT to be having sex under those circumstances.

So you are either saying that a) girls are not capable of being intelligent and should thus be protected by same kind of standards that protect animals

Certainly not...where did you get that silly idea?

or b) that intelligent girls should not be held responsible for their consequences of their own actions because, while sleeping with drunk women is utterly immoral, both getting so drunk that you lose all self-control and sleeping with drunken men are...achievements worthy of praise and admiration?

It's difficult to be "intelligent" when under the influence of alcohol. That's the problem.

The problem with today's society is this idiotic victim-fetish. These days calling someone a victim is equivalent to Catholics electing a Pope - that person becomes completely sinless and incapable of error and mere facts can do nothing about it.

I don't at all hold the girls irresponsible in this case (and I don't know how you reached that conclusion), however that does not absolve the males. The fact is that they cannot make that intelligent judgement under the influence of alcohol.

But males can. Look, we are either talking about two drunken people having sex or we are talking about a drunken person of the superior gender taking advantage of a drunken person of the inferior gender.

[Woodruff]

Hell, sometimes its hard to tell at a party if someones been drinking, and if you happen to head upstairs and then all they have to do is tell someone about it and the guy is SCREWED. No matter what, the guy loses in that.

No, NOT "no matter what". The intelligent guy who is concerned about his future is smart enough NOT to be having sex under those circumstances.

So you are either saying that a) girls are not capable of being intelligent and should thus be protected by same kind of standards that protect animals

Certainly not...where did you get that silly idea?

or b) that intelligent girls should not be held responsible for their consequences of their own actions because, while sleeping with drunk women is utterly immoral, both getting so drunk that you lose all self-control and sleeping with drunken men are...achievements worthy of praise and admiration?

It's difficult to be "intelligent" when under the influence of alcohol. That's the problem.

The problem with today's society is this idiotic victim-fetish. These days calling someone a victim is equivalent to Catholics electing a Pope - that person becomes completely sinless and incapable of error and mere facts can do nothing about it.

I don't at all hold the girls irresponsible in this case (and I don't know how you reached that conclusion), however that does not absolve the males. The fact is that they cannot make that intelligent judgement under the influence of alcohol.

But males can.

I believe I specifically stated that neither can. Are you suggesting that if someone robs a liquor store while they are under the influence of alcohol that they should not be held responsible for that decision?

[Army of GOD]

If both parties are under the influence of alcohol, I'm failing to see why the female is less at fault than the male.

[Woodruff]

If both parties are under the influence of alcohol, I'm failing to see why the female is less at fault than the male.

Essentially because, as I have pointed out repeatedly, that's the law. I don't personally agree with it, but that is how it is largely pursued. Probably because a lot of guys DO intentionally use alcohol to get with a girl (it may happen occasionally with girls, but it's not nearly as prevalent), and trying to prove whether or not there was intent when alcohol is involved is basically useless.

[edocsil]

What? I am stunned to hear anyone say this. Please tell me that you're under the age of...oh...14.

Personal attacks, cute. I am a college student, and my profile states my age. If you drink at a party shit can happen, if you don't know that going into the party you don't belong there to begin with. It's a conscious choice to go to a party, and if you are unwilling to live with the consequences you should show yourself the door. Naive to think otherwise.

If both parties are under the influence of alcohol, I'm failing to see why the female is less at fault than the male.

Essentially because, as I have pointed out repeatedly, that's the law. I don't personally agree with it, but that is how it is largely pursued. Probably because a lot of guys DO intentionally use alcohol to get with a girl (it may happen occasionally with girls, but it's not nearly as prevalent), and trying to prove whether or not there was intent when alcohol is involved is basically useless.

Funny, never really had to much respect for the law when it comes to drinking.

Also, I have seen FAR more sorority girls use alcohol to get sex then frat guys. Partly they use it on themselves to lower their own inhibitions, and then ply it on others to get the results then want.

[Woodruff]

What? I am stunned to hear anyone say this. Please tell me that you're under the age of...oh...14.

Personal attacks, cute.

I didn't see it as a personal attack so much as a statement of hope about your ignorance.

I am a college student, and my profile states my age. If you drink at a party shit can happen, if you don't know that going into the party you don't belong there to begin with. It's a conscious choice to go to a party, and if you are unwilling to live with the consequences you should show yourself the door. Naive to think otherwise.

So if you get raped at a party, tough shit...you shouldn't have been there?

If both parties are under the influence of alcohol, I'm failing to see why the female is less at fault than the male.

Essentially because, as I have pointed out repeatedly, that's the law. I don't personally agree with it, but that is how it is largely pursued. Probably because a lot of guys DO intentionally use alcohol to get with a girl (it may happen occasionally with girls, but it's not nearly as prevalent), and trying to prove whether or not there was intent when alcohol is involved is basically useless.

Funny, never really had to much respect for the law when it comes to drinking.

A stunning revelation, there.

Also, I have seen FAR more sorority girls use alcohol to get sex then frat guys. Partly they use it on themselves to lower their own inhibitions, and then ply it on others to get the results then want.

Of course you have.

[bedub1]

I'm updating the first post with what led me to this topic. I'll post it here too. The 22 year old piece of shit a college basketball player at University of Washington.

http://www.mynorthwest.com/category/col ... ashington/

...the charge will be dismissed if he avoids another criminal charge for a year and completes 24 hours of community service.

Personally, I hope he forgets to do all 24 hours of community service, and/or get's another criminal charge. We need to set a sign that actions of this type are NOT cool.

[john9blue]

for what it's worth, i have met 16 year old girls that act more mature and intelligent than many 20 year old girls.

[The Bison King]

If a 22 year old College Senior gets two 16 year old Highschool girls drunk and sleeps with them, what do you call him?

A hero!

That's a joke. I'd call him someone who is clearly impervious to being annoyed.

That's a joke, I don't condone the actions but I wouldn't want to see anyone being sent to jail over it either.