South Park Mafia 2 Town Wins!

[safariguy5]

Yes I am claiming part of what you have, but as spiesr pointed out, there seem to be a lot of possibilities of kills in each night, but no one is taking advantage of them since people seem to be unsure of who to target. I am wondering if they were put in because there isn't a SK in the game.

Not that this will help with anything against my case, but I don't know the characters in south park very well at all, and for me to pull off a very good fake-claim, I would have to end up researching for several hours, which I 1 don't have time for, and 2 I won't put that much time into a simple fake claim.

And if you want me to prove my 1 shot ability then let me know who you want me to target tonight, I know it doesn't prove that I am town, but that I have a kill ability, and the flavor should be able to check out in the scene.

Fastposted

Pleading ignorance in fakeclaim preparation is WIFOM, and I don't know if the mod provided fakeclaims, so it's probably a moot point anyways.

Well at least we'll know LSU was lying when I turn up town. I take some consolation in that.

[drake_259]

Okay i wanna go back to sensfan, he had a lot of heat on him in day 2. he has never voted on a lynch yet (probably to keep looking innocent from saying he didnt vote off a town). anyway he ha bandwagoned twice today, even though he says he aint.

Dazza also voted for slow rather than sens, basically to get off the townie than his partner.

If they both are innocent yes dazza could have went to the easier target as slow had 4 and sens had 3 at the time


Sens said he believed slows claim which i dont doubt as i did too. but again its making him look too townie by not voting, he would have been more likely as a townie to vote slow just to save himself right?

Anyway Vote sens


I however don't like all these votes going on safari

[blakebowling]

Vote Count
skillfusniper33 (2) - ???, safariguy5
safariguy5 (3) - usAir, skillfusniper33, sensfan
sensfan (1) - drake_259

With 11 alive, 6 votes are required to lynch.

[zimmah]

Okay i wanna go back to sensfan, he had a lot of heat on him in day 2. he has never voted on a lynch yet (probably to keep looking innocent from saying he didnt vote off a town). anyway he ha bandwagoned twice today, even though he says he aint.

Dazza also voted for slow rather than sens, basically to get off the townie than his partner.

If they both are innocent yes dazza could have went to the easier target as slow had 4 and sens had 3 at the time


Sens said he believed slows claim which i dont doubt as i did too. but again its making him look too townie by not voting, he would have been more likely as a townie to vote slow just to save himself right?

Anyway Vote sens

does make sens, vote sens
I however don't like all these votes going on safari

[zimmah]

Okay i wanna go back to sensfan, he had a lot of heat on him in day 2. he has never voted on a lynch yet (probably to keep looking innocent from saying he didnt vote off a town). anyway he ha bandwagoned twice today, even though he says he aint.

Dazza also voted for slow rather than sens, basically to get off the townie than his partner.

If they both are innocent yes dazza could have went to the easier target as slow had 4 and sens had 3 at the time


Sens said he believed slows claim which i dont doubt as i did too. but again its making him look too townie by not voting, he would have been more likely as a townie to vote slow just to save himself right?

Anyway Vote sens


I however don't like all these votes going on safari

does make sens, vote sens


sorry, messed up quotes, EBWODP.

[Epitaph1]

Why did I get prodded? I posted yesterday.

My last point stands: LSU and safari have made conflicting statements, so one of them must be lying or neglected to tell us something material. I think this is a better case than that against sniper.

I don't know whether or not sniper is telling the truth or not, but I second drunk's concerns about setting up a scenario where the CPR doc and sniper target the same person. Too much can go wrong and, when it does, we may not have anything resolved.

How did sens come up again? We have 2 much better discussions going between sniper and LSU/saf and then drake pulls out sens from D2? That's weird and only making things harder by creating another diversion.

Also, I'm going to throw out too more ideas that may or may not have any significance:
1) Daz was Butters' dad and the flavor from N1 suggests that Butters in the CPR doc... any connection?
2) Daz was the "mafia killer" and there hasn't been a NK since we lynched him... was he their only killer?

[MoB Deadly]

Ok I was forming a post about safari and this wasn't making sense. I put myself in the mafia's shoes, if there was a mafia roleblocker, who would I block? Looking at Safari's actions:

Ok, I got my actions.

I still have:
Protect
Kill
Roleblock
Busdrive

and I can one-shot a doublevoter ability during the day.

Also, I investigated drunkmonkey during Night 1, and flavor says he's different from the other kids and I can't quite see his face. Sounds like Kenny to me.

The Mafia knows whether or not they could of killed last night. The only power thats really a threat to them is the Vigi power. So why would the roleblocker block safari?

[zimmah]

Ok I was forming a post about safari and this wasn't making sense. I put myself in the mafia's shoes, if there was a mafia roleblocker, who would I block? Looking at Safari's actions:

Ok, I got my actions.

I still have:
Protect
Kill
Roleblock
Busdrive

and I can one-shot a doublevoter ability during the day.

Also, I investigated drunkmonkey during Night 1, and flavor says he's different from the other kids and I can't quite see his face. Sounds like Kenny to me.

The Mafia knows whether or not they could of killed last night. The only power thats really a threat to them is the Vigi power. So why would the roleblocker block safari?

are you saying the roleblocker is mafia? let's see if that makes sense:

if i recall correctly, Safari claimed to protect MOB, while mob claimed to block skill, while LSU claimed noone visited MOB. Nope, doesn't make sense.

if there was a busdriver involved, swapping mob and safari, safari would have protected skill (i see no problem there) and mob would have blocked himself (i see no problem there either, and you could even theoretically say that would show up as MOB not being visited by anyone, since you can't really visit yourself) however, the busdriver would have showed up for LSU. which creates a problem.

this scenario could not have possibly happened in any way, unless at least 1 of them is lying.

I say we lynch safari (or LSU) and if the one we lynch turns up town, we nightkill (either CPR OR vig shoots) the other one. If we have a watcher, we could let the CPR do it, as if they try to protect the one we targeted, we'll know who did it, and we'll have our next target. otherwise it's better to vig, so they can't intercept the kill (except by blocking the vig, while the CPR is still unknown, so he's/she's less likely to be roleblocked). (or at least as far as i remember, CPR has not yet claimed, sorry if i missed it, a lot of stuff happened in this game last night)

[zimmah]

Ok I was forming a post about safari and this wasn't making sense. I put myself in the mafia's shoes, if there was a mafia roleblocker, who would I block? Looking at Safari's actions:

Ok, I got my actions.

I still have:
Protect
Kill
Roleblock
Busdrive

and I can one-shot a doublevoter ability during the day.

Also, I investigated drunkmonkey during Night 1, and flavor says he's different from the other kids and I can't quite see his face. Sounds like Kenny to me.

The Mafia knows whether or not they could of killed last night. The only power thats really a threat to them is the Vigi power. So why would the roleblocker block safari?

are you saying the roleblocker is mafia? let's see if that makes sense:

if i recall correctly, Safari claimed to protect MOB, while mob claimed to block skill, while LSU claimed noone visited MOB. Nope, doesn't make sense.

if there was a busdriver involved, swapping mob and safari, safari would have protected skill (i see no problem there) and mob would have blocked himself (i see no problem there either, and you could even theoretically say that would show up as MOB not being visited by anyone, since you can't really visit yourself) however, the busdriver would have showed up for LSU. which creates a problem.

this scenario could not have possibly happened in any way, unless at least 1 of them is lying.

I say we lynch safari (or LSU) and if the one we lynch turns up town, we nightkill (either CPR OR vig shoots) the other one. If we have a watcher, we could let the CPR do it, as if they try to protect the one we targeted, we'll know who did it, and we'll have our next target. otherwise it's better to vig, so they can't intercept the kill (except by blocking the vig, while the CPR is still unknown, so he's/she's less likely to be roleblocked). (or at least as far as i remember, CPR has not yet claimed, sorry if i missed it, a lot of stuff happened in this game last night)

oh wait, now that i re-read my own post, it might have made sense if mob did not actually target skill, but instead blocked safari from protecting him, that would explain why LSU didn't get a result, however, it doesn't explain why safari never claimed to have been blocked.

i'll ask directly: Safari, did you get blocked last night, and if you did why didn't you tell us?

[zimmah]

and i just now realised it was the roleblocker himself to state that there could have been a mafia roleblocker. even then, the same question stands for safari, if he was roleblocked, why didn't he say so? what does he have to hide?

and are there even 2 roleblockers in the game?

[drunkmonkey]

After sleeping on it, I think it's reasonable to guess that safari was roleblocked by mafia. If he was revived as scum, I don't believe he kept his JOAT powers (although using a double-vote is not necessarily proof that he still has them).

Regarding the flavor - if MoB blocked the killer two nights in a row, does that mean blake would have to give the same scene both nights? If he told us there was a gunshot but no kill, it would be obvious that MoB blocked the killer again. Maybe in last night's flavor, Liane got to the killer before he/she left the house. The point I'm getting at is we shouldn't absolve skillfusniper just on the basis that the N3 flavor doesn't match the N2 flavor.

I don't like the case on safari, and I'm willing to risk a 1-shot vig (that doesn't fit the flavor of Sheila) for the best chance I see at getting another scum.

vote skillfusniper

fastposted x3

How would safari know if he was roleblocked?

[spiesr]

and are there even 2 roleblockers in the game?

We don't know if a mafia role-blocker exists or not.

[blakebowling]

Why did I get prodded? I posted yesterday.

Apologies, I didn't remember seeing your name.

Vote Count
skillfusniper33 (3) - ???, safariguy5, drunkmonkey
safariguy5 (3) - usAir, skillfusniper33, sensfan
sensfan (2) - drake_259, zimmah,

With 11 alive, 6 votes are required to lynch.

[MoB Deadly]

How would safari know if he was roleblocked?

I don't think he WOULD know, thats the point I am trying to make to zimmah. Doctor's dont normally get results at night, therefore he wouldn't be notified he was blocked.

But putting myself in the mafia's shoes, why would they block safari? Because of his chance to Vigi someone? I don't really get the reasoning

[drunkmonkey]

How would safari know if he was roleblocked?

I don't think he WOULD know, thats the point I am trying to make to zimmah. Doctor's dont normally get results at night, therefore he wouldn't be notified he was blocked.

But putting myself in the mafia's shoes, why would they block safari? Because of his chance to Vigi someone? I don't really get the reasoning

The only known roles were you(roleblocker) and safari(chance of roleblock, vig, or doc). Anyone else is a shot in the dark, and we know there are VTs. I'm not saying it's the only choice, but I can understand it.

[MoB Deadly]

How would safari know if he was roleblocked?

I don't think he WOULD know, thats the point I am trying to make to zimmah. Doctor's dont normally get results at night, therefore he wouldn't be notified he was blocked.

But putting myself in the mafia's shoes, why would they block safari? Because of his chance to Vigi someone? I don't really get the reasoning

The only known roles were you(roleblocker) and safari(chance of roleblock, vig, or doc). Anyone else is a shot in the dark, and we know there are VTs. I'm not saying it's the only choice, but I can understand it.

okay so if its logical for mafia to roleblock safari, then the story "probably" checks out. So I don't think I am going to vote for safari. Still in the air on whether or not I believe Skillful or not. The problem for me is the night flavor I think.

[zimmah]

How would safari know if he was roleblocked?

I don't think he WOULD know, thats the point I am trying to make to zimmah. Doctor's dont normally get results at night, therefore he wouldn't be notified he was blocked.

But putting myself in the mafia's shoes, why would they block safari? Because of his chance to Vigi someone? I don't really get the reasoning

The only known roles were you(roleblocker) and safari(chance of roleblock, vig, or doc). Anyone else is a shot in the dark, and we know there are VTs. I'm not saying it's the only choice, but I can understand it.

okay so if its logical for mafia to roleblock safari, then the story "probably" checks out. So I don't think I am going to vote for safari. Still in the air on whether or not I believe Skillful or not. The problem for me is the night flavor I think.

exactly, but if we go by the night flavor, is there even any target at all we should kill? i guess there is, since we're still playing, so what are we looking at?

[spiesr]

Regarding the flavor - if MoB blocked the killer two nights in a row, does that mean blake would have to give the same scene both nights? If he told us there was a gunshot but no kill, it would be obvious that MoB blocked the killer again. Maybe in last night's flavor, Liane got to the killer before he/she left the house. The point I'm getting at is we shouldn't absolve skillfusniper just on the basis that the N3 flavor doesn't match the N2 flavor.

I don't like the case on safari, and I'm willing to risk a 1-shot vig (that doesn't fit the flavor of Sheila) for the best chance I see at getting another scum.

I am going to have to agree with Drunk for the most part here. I think that Skillfull represents the better case at the moment. As Drunk points out, I don't think we can throw away what we have against Skillfull based on the flavor alone. All this coupled with my doubt that he would really be yet another role with a kill power leads me to conclude the lynching Skillfull is the best way forward at the moment. Vote Skillfusniper
As for Safariguy, if his claim is true he should still have Kill, Roleblock, and Busdriver abilities. Perhaps he can do something overnight to drum up a little more evidence to collaborate him actually having those powers.

[skillfusniper33]

Regarding the flavor - if MoB blocked the killer two nights in a row, does that mean blake would have to give the same scene both nights? If he told us there was a gunshot but no kill, it would be obvious that MoB blocked the killer again. Maybe in last night's flavor, Liane got to the killer before he/she left the house. The point I'm getting at is we shouldn't absolve skillfusniper just on the basis that the N3 flavor doesn't match the N2 flavor.

I don't like the case on safari, and I'm willing to risk a 1-shot vig (that doesn't fit the flavor of Sheila) for the best chance I see at getting another scum.

I am going to have to agree with Drunk for the most part here. I think that Skillfull represents the better case at the moment. As Drunk points out, I don't think we can throw away what we have against Skillfull based on the flavor alone. All this coupled with my doubt that he would really be yet another role with a kill power leads me to conclude the lynching Skillfull is the best way forward at the moment. Vote Skillfusniper
As for Safariguy, if his claim is true he should still have Kill, Roleblock, and Busdriver abilities. Perhaps he can do something overnight to drum up a little more evidence to collaborate him actually having those powers.

It doesn't look like we have a SK or anything that would provide nightly kills, apart from mafia (which hasn't made a kill in 2 nights, thanks to finding dazza), so I think that may be why we have so many possibly kill abilities for town. I also would like to know what new information you would gain, since I am telling the truth about my role?

The one ally we haven't really walked down is that LSU isn't telling us the truth, in that he watched someone else last night, and didn't get any information, and is deciding to try and make us lynch a townie just because we all believe he is town, which is the best spot for a mafia to be in. I know this may seem like a stretch but it should also be considered, and not just thrown out.

Unvote, Vote LSU

[zimmah]

Regarding the flavor - if MoB blocked the killer two nights in a row, does that mean blake would have to give the same scene both nights? If he told us there was a gunshot but no kill, it would be obvious that MoB blocked the killer again. Maybe in last night's flavor, Liane got to the killer before he/she left the house. The point I'm getting at is we shouldn't absolve skillfusniper just on the basis that the N3 flavor doesn't match the N2 flavor.

I don't like the case on safari, and I'm willing to risk a 1-shot vig (that doesn't fit the flavor of Sheila) for the best chance I see at getting another scum.

I am going to have to agree with Drunk for the most part here. I think that Skillfull represents the better case at the moment. As Drunk points out, I don't think we can throw away what we have against Skillfull based on the flavor alone. All this coupled with my doubt that he would really be yet another role with a kill power leads me to conclude the lynching Skillfull is the best way forward at the moment. Vote Skillfusniper
As for Safariguy, if his claim is true he should still have Kill, Roleblock, and Busdriver abilities. Perhaps he can do something overnight to drum up a little more evidence to collaborate him actually having those powers.

It doesn't look like we have a SK or anything that would provide nightly kills, apart from mafia (which hasn't made a kill in 2 nights, thanks to finding dazza), so I think that may be why we have so many possibly kill abilities for town. I also would like to know what new information you would gain, since I am telling the truth about my role?

The one ally we haven't really walked down is that LSU isn't telling us the truth, in that he watched someone else last night, and didn't get any information, and is deciding to try and make us lynch a townie just because we all believe he is town, which is the best spot for a mafia to be in. I know this may seem like a stretch but it should also be considered, and not just thrown out.

Unvote, Vote LSU

there's no other claimed investigation role, therefore i believe it would be a mistake to lynch him.

[safariguy5]

I was not informed that I was roleblocked. Usually, in games that I've played (and modded) you don't know you were roleblocked unless you are an investigative role and expect a result.

So I'm going to tend to believe LSU, because as I've said, watcher is a difficult role to fake although not impossible.

It's possible MoB fakeclaimed a town roleblocker and he is really a mafia roleblocker.

And it's possible that sens is just bandwaggoning, but I think that's a secondary lead.

I just don't understand why town has all these apparent vig roles, and making the role one-shot just seems too perfect. If it's such a weak role, why isn't it a VT role considering town has more standard and stronger roles.

I think skillful is really just a mafia goon, and the one-shot vig basically provides a reason for why there are no other night actions yet keeps the possibility of explaining a future nightkill that skill may carry out for the mafia as a "town night action".

The claim doesn't fit the flavor and also doesn't fit the game balance to me.

[MoB Deadly]

I was not informed that I was roleblocked. Usually, in games that I've played (and modded) you don't know you were roleblocked unless you are an investigative role and expect a result.

So I'm going to tend to believe LSU, because as I've said, watcher is a difficult role to fake although not impossible.

It's possible MoB fakeclaimed a town roleblocker and he is really a mafia roleblocker.

And it's possible that sens is just bandwaggoning, but I think that's a secondary lead.

I just don't understand why town has all these apparent vig roles, and making the role one-shot just seems too perfect. If it's such a weak role, why isn't it a VT role considering town has more standard and stronger roles.

I think skillful is really just a mafia goon, and the one-shot vig basically provides a reason for why there are no other night actions yet keeps the possibility of explaining a future nightkill that skill may carry out for the mafia as a "town night action".

The claim doesn't fit the flavor and also doesn't fit the game balance to me.

Why on earth would I reveal out of the blue and get dazza killed?

unvote vote skillful even though the flavor does not go with a successful block, we do not have any other leads

[spiesr]

It's possible MoB fakeclaimed a town roleblocker and he is really a mafia roleblocker.

Why on earth would I reveal out of the blue and get dazza killed?

The only remotely plausible reason that I can think of would be to build town credibility. I don't know if it would actually be worth it though.

I also would like to know what new information you would gain, since I am telling the truth about my role?

That last part is where we would disagree.

The one ally we haven't really walked down is that LSU isn't telling us the truth, in that he watched someone else last night, and didn't get any information, and is deciding to try and make us lynch a townie just because we all believe he is town, which is the best spot for a mafia to be in. I know this may seem like a stretch but it should also be considered, and not just thrown out.

Well, first of all I am pretty sure that LSU is not a Mafia Watcher, the game just really doesn't seem to justify the existence of such a role. He is either a Town Watcher, or scum and not a watcher.
Now, what are the chances at him being scum? The first question to ask there, is why he would make this claim? By offering a claim the conflicts with Safariguy's claimed actions it puts them in a situation of conflict where the probably result is that one would be lynch. Based on certain details when he claimed he could confidently predict that in that scenario the town would lynch Safariguy before it would lynch him. But then what? If safariguy comes up town after that then it throws suspicion upon LSU. Now, he could try to get out by saying that Safari must have been hit by the mafia roleblocker, the question remains, is such a maneuver worth the risk? Besides the risk of the town turning against him if Safari flips town, his claimed actions include several other details that LSU probably couldn't have confirmed and could be proven false. How would he know that nobody else happened to visit Mob last night? Mob had already claimed to have blocked him night 1, so that night was safe, but what about night 2? How would he have know if anyone visited me or not? Those details represent a substantial risk of coming back to bite him in the ass. Now, he could look at the status of the game, what roles have been claimed/killed, and just make a lucky guess that nobody happened to do those things. But, why would he take these risks? The only answer that I can come up with now would be that Skillfull is his scum buddy and the claim was a desperation gambit to save him by shifting the case to someone else. Anyhow, it all seems pretty unlikely.

[zimmah]

I was not informed that I was roleblocked. Usually, in games that I've played (and modded) you don't know you were roleblocked unless you are an investigative role and expect a result.

So I'm going to tend to believe LSU, because as I've said, watcher is a difficult role to fake although not impossible.

It's possible MoB fakeclaimed a town roleblocker and he is really a mafia roleblocker.

And it's possible that sens is just bandwaggoning, but I think that's a secondary lead.

I just don't understand why town has all these apparent vig roles, and making the role one-shot just seems too perfect. If it's such a weak role, why isn't it a VT role considering town has more standard and stronger roles.

I think skillful is really just a mafia goon, and the one-shot vig basically provides a reason for why there are no other night actions yet keeps the possibility of explaining a future nightkill that skill may carry out for the mafia as a "town night action".

The claim doesn't fit the flavor and also doesn't fit the game balance to me.

Why on earth would I reveal out of the blue and get dazza killed?

unvote vote skillful even though the flavor does not go with a successful block, we do not have any other leads

agreed, i think we have discussed enough, and i think in fact both LSU and Safari can be right in the case of a roleblock, sorry i mistrusted you safari, i just don't seem to get the 'some roles don't get a "you got roleblocked" message' into my mind (i'm autistic btw, so you can tell me those things a million times but if it doesn't get through it doesn't get through) but anyway, it does make sense now, so:

unvote vote skill (if i didn't do that allready)

[LSU Tiger Josh]

Skillful I'm prepared to hammer you. Give yourself an adequate defense other than some bologna about me being a mafia member. That is a pathetic excuse and reality should be enough for me to hammer you, but since we're in a good position right now as town, I'll let you try to convince me on why I shouldn't hammer you.

For what it is worth, night 1 when I was roleblocked I did not get informed until after I asked our mod why I didn't have a result.