Questionnaire for the Religious

[Gregrios]

The reason why your test is a failure is because the author has a perspective that likely no Christian would ever agree with. That being said, how can someone argue something that portrays the opposite of what they believe? It would be like me giving you a test on how to live a worthy life in the eyes of God. It's pointless and a tad insulting.

[StiffMittens]

The reason why your test is a failure is because the author has a perspective that likely no Christian would ever agree with. That being said, how can someone argue something that portrays the opposite of what they believe? It would be like me giving you a test on how to live a worthy life in the eyes of God. It's pointless and a tad insulting.

I think you're missing the point (perhaps willfully). This is not a test but rather a questionnaire. And the questions really aren't meant to be answered, they are intended to illustrate the folly of religious belief. DM's challenge was not to answer the questions themselves, but to prove that the questions do not accurately illustrate religious belief. In other words, each question on the questionnaire has an implied assertion that the options provided for the answer are analogous to some aspect of the theist's viewpoint. Your task (should you choice to accept it) is to show how that analogy is false.

[Haggis_McMutton]

OK, well instead of copying and pasting like DM did and "pushing buttons" (read: being a douchey troll), I'll bite. Answering from a Christian viewpoint here (as that is what this thing attacks), although there are some parts of it I have issues with. Answering the first five:

1 - C. Concerns the question of evil and seeming contradiction between an omnipotent/benevolent God and what we perceive to be "bad" things (which is actually nature running its course).

2 - A&C, then D. Pray after the medics take him away if you like. Question implies that those who pray neglect other forms of help and make irrational decisions. Hardly worth answering.

3 - D. See Question 1. And you forgot one thing- the neighbors started the fire themselves.

4 - B then maybe A. Seems like you (or whoever you ripped this from) misunderstands free will. If we always did what God wanted, then what kind of free will would that be?

5 - Any of them... Forgot to mention "dying for humanity's sins" there, didn't ya?

If you want more detailed answers, go check some apologetics websites.

Now, which of the following best represents the philosophically neutral, totally nonfanatic, and completely harmless position of atheism?

A - Mao's Cultural Revolution and Great Leap Forward
B - Several antireligious manifestos becoming bestsellers in the same year
C - The attempted removal of "God" from the Pledge of Allegiance and our currency
D - Stalin's gulag camps and closing of churches
E - The "War on Christmas" and movement to rename the Christmas tree and silence non-secular carols
F - Sam Harris' belief that those with certain beliefs should be murdered
G - Threads such as this one

South Park was right (as it is about pretty much everything)- radical atheism is every bit as blind and dangerous as radical theism. Hypocrites. I need to stop posting in religion threads, it's bad for my health. Or I could start trolling. Or post one sentence long pretentious responses without any real value. Maybe the atheists on this forum know what they're doing after all.

I started on a point by point rebuttal, but i figure it's DM's questionnaire, might as well let him have the fun.

However i do share your opinion that threads such as this, trying to have an unbiased constitution, some author's badly disfigured and taken out of context quotes, and some regimes that only rejected religion because it might get in the way of the state religion are conclusive proof that atheism is just as menacing as a world view as blind faith in the supernatural

[jonka]

I think you're missing the point (perhaps willfully). This is not a test but rather a questionnaire.

StiffMittens, that is a blatant lie, it is a test administered by our lord Jesus Christ, deliberately putting lies on CC forums, monitoring us seeing if we fall into the traps they placed so that they can burn us in hell. DM, HIGH FIVE! I love it when atheists and theists bicker, its cheap entertainment.
Anyways I wish I could believe in god, I'd prefer Illusion to despair. However I am a logically based individual, so I can't just imagine that there is this dude with a beard sitting on a cloud, when science deduces such obvious and clear answers (relatively, it depends upon intelligence levels). I mean how awesome would it be if I could go to a place where I would always be happy, but that makes me realize, happiness relies on sadness, so it would get dull. In fact I would rather be reincarnated to this earth. I mean here, we get to experience sorrow, its a really great thing! I mean don't you enjoy every second of life you live. If god did exist, I would choose not to go to heaven, I mean I couldn't do that, I hate the Idea of heaven and god, I would choose to cease to exist. People need to be able to leave forever, every story needs an ending, its perfect that way. It would seem hollow if it went on forever.
I kinda have some problems with the idea of god, but I would like it if people would pm me about it, I'm not looking for a debate, I just want others opinions when forming my own. This is referring mainly to the concept of a god, not the common technical proofs used to try to disprove existence of divine being(s)

Many people Say Jesus died for my sins, even postulating that this is fact, I disagree that I owe him anything, why do you think that one persons death brings all of mankind into slavery, as there have been countless other martyrs?
Would god have free will? Could he kill everything on a whim?
Or would he be Omnipotent, and know exactly what he should do?
Why is there a hell? If its all gods plan, why does he plan on making "failures"?
Speaking of Gods Plan? If its all going to happen one way whats the point, hypothetically I could kill myself right now and it would be what god wanted?
How do you view The Universe, do you think it is just a mirage made by god, or is he outside the Universe?
This one might offend some, if it does PM me and I'll explain my reasons thouroughly: How can i believe in God if I feel I am morally superior than the god described by the bible?
I guess I just see existence and morals differently than most theists, anyways, I don't want to argue, so don't reply, PM me, I'm not going to respond to any attacks.

[jonka]

Now, which of the following best represents the philosophically neutral, totally nonfanatic, and completely harmless position of atheism?

A - Mao's Cultural Revolution and Great Leap Forward
B - Several antireligious manifestos becoming bestsellers in the same year
C - The attempted removal of "God" from the Pledge of Allegiance and our currency
D - Stalin's gulag camps and closing of churches
E - The "War on Christmas" and movement to rename the Christmas tree and silence non-secular carols
F - Sam Harris' belief that those with certain beliefs should be murdered
G - Threads such as this one

By the way, C or G, easily.

[Dancing Mustard]

OK, well instead of copying and pasting like DM did and "pushing buttons" (read: being a douchey troll)

I would have respected your answer far more if you'd managed to refrain from kicking it off with a flacid attempt to flame. Such behaviour is very unchristian and does not become you.

On the other hand, the rest of your answer heartened me. It is, by and large, an example that your less articulate theist brethren (yo Greggy!) would do well to emulate.

1 - C. Concerns the question of evil and seeming contradiction between an omnipotent/benevolent God and what we perceive to be "bad" things (which is actually nature running its course).

But that answer doesn't really engage with the criticism made, does it?

If God really is omnipotent and benevolent, then why would he create a 'nature' in which the natural course of things included arbitrary pain, suffering and death? His delivered product just doesn't match up his sales pitch.

"I am a loving God of infinite power, I love you all very much... but right now I feel like letting innocent lil' jimmy become the host of Bottfly larvae, which will consume his soft tissues from within his skull before inevitably exiting his body via the eyeballs, leaving him permanently scared and blind... but don't forget kids, I LOVE you"

Why does he do it? And, regardless of your answer, doesn't the paradox completely undermine the "world is beautiful therefore must be made by good God" argument?

2 - A&C, then D. Pray after the medics take him away if you like. Question implies that those who pray neglect other forms of help and make irrational decisions. Hardly worth answering.

No it doesn't, that's a misunderstanding on your part.

The question points out the fact that despite being omnipresent, all knowing, all merciful and of limitless power, our allegedly loving and benevolent God is happy to let us (even the best Christians among us) rot and die, regardless of our upstanding lives and our prayers for his aid.

The question points out that we are all far better served by just getting on with life, and seemingly completely unaffected by, allegedly necessary, prayer.

Again, what's the sense? Why does the all-loving, all-powerful guy let senseless, cruel and tragic things happen, even when we beg him for aid? Is he just reneging on all of his well-known promises, or is he just not there to hear us?

3 - D. See Question 1. And you forgot one thing- the neighbors started the fire themselves.

Nothing in the question indicates that the neighbours started the fire themselves. Please go re-read.

Also, in case you miss it, the point of this question is that the respondent is given the same powers as God in this situation. Why do we regard him as a douchebag for not acting, whereas when God (repeatedly) fails to intervene people look to the skies and call him omnibenevolent.

See you in a few minutes when you've tried again.

4 - B then maybe A. Seems like you (or whoever you ripped this from) misunderstands free will. If we always did what God wanted, then what kind of free will would that be?

Actually, it seems like you misunderstand the point of the question.

The point is, if this is all part of God's plan, and if he really does have some higher purpose in letting all of these senselessly violent things happen on his green earth (as you probably will tell me in response to 1, 2 & 3), then why isn't it blasphemy to intervene in such a perfect plan? Why ever do anything to interrupt the 'course of nature' if it's all part of the grand-design that it happens?

I mean, poor lil' Sally getting raped and murdered on her way home from school is something that almighty (allegedly loving and merciful) God knew would happen and intended to be, isn't it? Who am I, a mere mortal with little comprehension of his work, to throw a spanner in the works and intervene?

5 - Any of them... Forgot to mention "dying for humanity's sins" there, didn't ya?

I fail to see how such an act would be incompatible with any of the other answers. Please try again.

Furthermore, 'dying in misery and obscurity with only an unevidenced and unprovable promise as your legacy' is still an option that sounds pretty weak in comparison to A, B, and C. Perhaps you could elaborate on that?

Now, which of the following best represents the philosophically neutral, totally nonfanatic, and completely harmless position of atheism?

A - Mao's Cultural Revolution and Great Leap Forward
B - Several antireligious manifestos becoming bestsellers in the same year
C - The attempted removal of "God" from the Pledge of Allegiance and our currency
D - Stalin's gulag camps and closing of churches
E - The "War on Christmas" and movement to rename the Christmas tree and silence non-secular carols
F - Sam Harris' belief that those with certain beliefs should be murdered
G - Threads such as this one

A - That was an act perpetrated in the name of communism, a wider social belief-system in which atheism played only a small part.
B - I fail to see how multiple treatises that point out the untenability of religion fly in the face of the dictionary definition of Atheism? Furthermore, who are you to declare that those small numbers of authors represent the true face of atheism, given that it has no core text (unlike Christianity, which does, and which these questions all reference)?
C - Surely this is more to do with your beloved constitution and its explicit pledge to keep church and state separate, than it is to do with atheist belief? Even if it was to do with Atheism, how would that action be incompatible with the definition of atheist belief?
D - This answer relies upon a false conflation of two separate beliefs, furthermore; see response to answer A.
E - I'm afraid that you're going to have to be more specific here, there have been multiple so-called "wars on Christmas". However, I suspect that you're going to be met with a similar response to the one given to answers B and C.
F - Random nutjob going above and beyond the definition of 'atheist'. Not in our name thank you.
G - I fail to see how pointing out obvious flaws in a system of belief and asking its followers to explain why they continue to cling to an ideology so riddled with internal contradictions is somehow behaving in a fashion that would run counter to the definition of 'atheism'.

As such I can only answer: "This thread; however, your original definition of Atheism is a novel and irrelevant one, which robs your enquiry of any true bite and renders any conclusion that you attempt to draw from it invalid".

radical atheism is every bit as blind and dangerous as radical theism.

Please explain how?

Which was the last war fought in the name of atheism? When was the last terrorist act perpetrated in the name of advancing an atheist agenda? When was the last time torture was commited in the name of punishing non-atheist believers?

Or is your real point that you just don't like being criticised, nor having your religion demonstrated to be self-defeating, and feel that everybody ought to only be allowed to discuss your sky-daddy of choice in hushed and reverential tones?

Because so far as I can tell, the only harm that so-called 'radical' atheists actually cause, is to ardent theist's egos. Rather different to the palpable and physical harm caused by several millennia of genuinely radical theist zealots.

End with straw-man dull flame comments

Now now, temper temper. Don't forget to ask yourself: "What would Jesus do"?

[StiffMittens]

2 - A&C, then D. Pray after the medics take him away if you like. Question implies that those who pray neglect other forms of help and make irrational decisions. Hardly worth answering.

No it doesn't, that's a misunderstanding on your part.

The question points out the fact that despite being omnipresent, all knowing, all merciful and of limitless power, our allegedly loving and benevolent God is happy to let us (even the best Christians among us) rot and die, regardless of our upstanding lives and our prayers for his aid.

The question points out that we are all far better served by just getting on with life, and seemingly completely unaffected by, allegedly necessary, prayer.

This raises an interesting (I think) side-point: Does prayer represent a fundamental hypocrisy in the religiously devoted? If God is all-seeing and all-knowing, why do the devout believe it is necessary (or even advisable) to keep reminding God of what He must surely already know? Pleading for "special treatment" would seem selfish (depending on whether you're praying for yourself or someone else) and/or hypocritical coming from one who believes that everything that occurs is part of God's design. Or if you think of the trials of life as a test of your faith and prayer as seeking guidance and counsel from God, then isn't that kind of cheating on the test so to speak?

But this doesn't necessarily mean that there is no purpose to prayer. Looking from an utterly agnostic viewpoint, prayer could be understood as simply a meditative strategy for positive visualization to reassure ourselves that things are going to work out so that we don't paralyze ourselves in fear or doubt. In this sense, I think John's answer of A&C then D is fine.

[pimpdave]

The reason why your test is a hilarious is because the author has a perspective that likely no Christian would ever agree with. That being said, how can someone argue something that portrays the opposite of what they believe? It would be like me giving you a test on how to stop being awesome and brilliant. It's pointless and a tad insulting.

[thegreekdog]

I do pray. I never pray for myself, but I do pray for others occasionally. Probably 95% of the reason I pray is what Stiffmittens posited. In other words, it helps me calm down and it makes me feel good about myself (self reasons, undoubtedly).

[MeDeFe]

The same tired arguments that we've all seen before?

I skimmed the article, and it looks like it.

[Falkomagno]

I especially like this questions

7. You are the Creator of the universe. Your chosen people are a tribe of nomadic herdsmen, presently in bondage on one of the millions of your planets. Their ruler is being quite obstinate. Keeping in mind that you possess not only infinite power but also infinite love, your best course of action would be to:

a. Cause the ruler to drop dead of a heart attack
b. Cause the ruler to fall off a cliff
c. Visit the ruler in a dream and persuade him to let your people go
d. Slaughter a great number of innocent babies who had nothing to do with the ruler's policies

Answer: The religion is a cultural MAN invention. Don't try so hard to justify that.

21. Jesus was God, and God knows all things, including all the medical knowledge that will ever be known. Why did Jesus blame demons for the case of epilepsy he cured?

a. He was suffering from a temporary case of "brain freeze"
b. The Aramaic word for "demon" is the same as the word for "cranial malfunction"
c. Neurology was not his specialty
d. In first-century Palestine, demons really did cause epilepsy. This affliction only began to be caused by anomalous electrochemical brain activity after about 1850 A.D.

hehehe....I wonder if there is more of that flaws in the Bible. I would be really surprise if don't. I mean, the bible was written years ago, so I think that Is so probably that the people who write it ignore a lot of things that we already know.

24. Down through the ages, who has been most responsible for the medical discoveries that have relieved untold amounts of suffering and pain, and extended the length of that most sacred of creations, human life?

a. Medical doctors
b. Research biologists
c. Chemists
d. The Catholic Church

What good has spread the Church to humananity...I wonder...


Hey DM...you write this yourself??or where do you get this??'I'm really interesting this kind of stuff

[Falkomagno]

I liked this one....*nostalgia*

[Phatscotty]

I love this Atheist spin....let me try

If you believe in God and you are religious, then you will never die and nothing bad will ever happen to you.

Because if you die or something bad happens, then that would just disprove God...cuz..... how could God let that happen?

[Neoteny]

Whoosh

[thegreekdog]

I liked this one....*nostalgia*

Me too.

[BigBallinStalin]

I would have loved chatting with DM.