New Baseball Rule: Outfield Fly Ball

[nietzsche]

Unbelievable, what was that ump thinking..

Too bad Chipper ended his career with Atlanta fans littering the field.

[Night Strike]

Agreed.

There is a poll on ESPN.com asking which call was worse: this one or the MNF one.

[nietzsche]

And this call is winning, and on twitter known baseball figures are sharing their thoughts... I wonder if MLB will seriously consider Atlanta's protest.

[Night Strike]

According to the Braves' manager, it's already been ruled against them. But I believe by rule they have to issue a written report before the outcome is official.

And I believe basically everyone, even Cardinals fans, know it was the wrong call. Cardinals fans are always said to be some of the best in baseball, so we recognize when there are bad calls.

[Woodruff]

Unbelievable, what was that ump thinking.

Yeah, that was an HORRIDLY missed call. And I say that as a lifelong Cardinals fan. Just no excuse at all for that call.

Too bad Chipper ended his career with Atlanta fans littering the field.

It really did make the Braves fans look bad. Though I can understand their frustration with the situation, given it was a one-game playoff with the tying run at bat...but seriously, they gotta be classier than that.

[Woodruff]

Agreed.

There is a poll on ESPN.com asking which call was worse: this one or the MNF one.

To me, it was hands-down this one. I can see SOME "question" with the MNF one. I can't with this one.

[strike wolf]

Horrible call but really why do we have a one game wild card playoff anyways. As far as the protest I've already heard that it has been denied but I wouldn't want it to be upheld anyways. redoing it isn't really fair to either team and there's going to be controversy over the game regardless of what any redo would accomplish.

[nietzsche]

Horrible call but really why do we have a one game wild card playoff anyways. As far as the protest I've already heard that it has been denied but I wouldn't want it to be upheld anyways. redoing it isn't really fair to either team and there's going to be controversy over the game regardless of what any redo would accomplish.

The Mexican soccer league has a system that allows 40% of the teams to participate in the league title, every 6 months. It was 50% of the teams a couple of years ago. That system fosters mediocrity, often you had teams that end the regular part of the season in 10th place, and 3 weeks later they were the champions. What happened? Lot of people stopped watched the games, including me. Mediocrity.

I've heard positive views on this new system, but I can't forget that what I love about MLB is that it that you really have every player in every team trying to do their best every game of the 162, because it does matter to be the best. I fear that mediocrity might happen to MLB now that 8 teams enter the playoffs. Remember that there used to be only 4.

[Woodruff]

Horrible call but really why do we have a one game wild card playoff anyways. As far as the protest I've already heard that it has been denied but I wouldn't want it to be upheld anyways. redoing it isn't really fair to either team and there's going to be controversy over the game regardless of what any redo would accomplish.

The Mexican soccer league has a system that allows 40% of the teams to participate in the league title, every 6 months. It was 50% of the teams a couple of years ago. That system fosters mediocrity, often you had teams that end the regular part of the season in 10th place, and 3 weeks later they were the champions. What happened? Lot of people stopped watched the games, including me. Mediocrity.

I've heard positive views on this new system, but I can't forget that what I love about MLB is that it that you really have every player in every team trying to do their best every game of the 162, because it does matter to be the best. I fear that mediocrity might happen to MLB now that 8 teams enter the playoffs. Remember that there used to be only 4.

It seems to me that the old "champions only" system was the best. Unfortunately, that meant that sometimes, the playoffs were a foregone conclusion and people didn't watch or come to games late in the season, after things were decided. Well...we can't have missed profits, so to hell with competition.

[Sackett58]

Kozma was no where near being camped under the ball. He was still trying to figure out if Holiday was going for it. There is something to be said about home field advantage as the fans were loud and I'm sure Kozma couldn't hear Holiday. And when Kozma moved forward that is when the ump made the signal. What was really sad to me thou was Chipper Jones last at bat. The way he ran down the base line giving up on the play. For all Pete Rose's faults he would of been hustling down the line if it was his last at bat of his career.

[strike wolf]

Horrible call but really why do we have a one game wild card playoff anyways. As far as the protest I've already heard that it has been denied but I wouldn't want it to be upheld anyways. redoing it isn't really fair to either team and there's going to be controversy over the game regardless of what any redo would accomplish.

The Mexican soccer league has a system that allows 40% of the teams to participate in the league title, every 6 months. It was 50% of the teams a couple of years ago. That system fosters mediocrity, often you had teams that end the regular part of the season in 10th place, and 3 weeks later they were the champions. What happened? Lot of people stopped watched the games, including me. Mediocrity.

I've heard positive views on this new system, but I can't forget that what I love about MLB is that it that you really have every player in every team trying to do their best every game of the 162, because it does matter to be the best. I fear that mediocrity might happen to MLB now that 8 teams enter the playoffs. Remember that there used to be only 4.

I don't even care about the mediocrity part and I know this probably sounds like sour grapes coming from a Braves fan but it really does seem like a shame that in a sport where you play 162 games to prove you are ready for the playoffs (and where anything can happen), your whole season comes down to a single game. that and I don't really see what the advantage was to changing it. The old system worked in that you had 3 division winners and 1 wild card on each side. it was balanced and it worked.

As far as the call, the ump says the shortstop could make "ordinary effort to catch the ball" which is kind of BS. It was late calling for it to begin with.

[DoomYoshi]

The new system gives a bonus to the division leaders. Before wild cards and division leaders were treated the same. I agree with the new system, as long as it stays at one game. Any more will take up too much time on the tube.

[Woodruff]

The new system gives a bonus to the division leaders.

By making them start their series on the road?

[Sackett58]

The new system gives a bonus to the division leaders.

By making them start their series on the road?

The new system is to keep the best pitcher on the wild card team from facing the division leader twice in a series. With a one game playoff the thinking is that the managers from the wild card teams will go with their best. This format the 2-3 instead of the 2-2-1 eliminates the extra travel day for the pitcher to possibly get in 2 starts on 3 days rest if there is a delay for weather. Probably helps cut down on travel costs too.

[Woodruff]

The new system gives a bonus to the division leaders.

By making them start their series on the road?

The new system is to keep the best pitcher on the wild card team from facing the division leader twice in a series. With a one game playoff the thinking is that the managers from the wild card teams will go with their best. This format the 2-3 instead of the 2-2-1 eliminates the extra travel day for the pitcher to possibly get in 2 starts on 3 days rest if there is a delay for weather. Probably helps cut down on travel costs too.

Ok, I understand that, but it still doesn't explain why the series starts on the road for the division winner. Keep the 2-3 format (though it would be 3-2) and all the rest, but the division winner should have earned the right to get the initial advantage of playing at home first. If the wildcard team can't win one of those three games (so they never get a chance to play at home), they should just thank their lucky stars they're even in the playoffs to begin with.

[Sackett58]

The new system gives a bonus to the division leaders.

By making them start their series on the road?

The new system is to keep the best pitcher on the wild card team from facing the division leader twice in a series. With a one game playoff the thinking is that the managers from the wild card teams will go with their best. This format the 2-3 instead of the 2-2-1 eliminates the extra travel day for the pitcher to possibly get in 2 starts on 3 days rest if there is a delay for weather. Probably helps cut down on travel costs too.

Ok, I understand that, but it still doesn't explain why the series starts on the road for the division winner. Keep the 2-3 format (though it would be 3-2) and all the rest, but the division winner should have earned the right to get the initial advantage of playing at home first. If the wildcard team can't win one of those three games (so they never get a chance to play at home), they should just thank their lucky stars they're even in the playoffs to begin with.

Good point. But then you would probably have to use the same format for the other playoff series between the division winners.

[tzor]

Ok, I understand that, but it still doesn't explain why the series starts on the road for the division winner.

Money. The division winer gets 1-3 games while the loser only gets 2. If the series does go to 5, the 5th game is a big big draw, definitely a sellout. It's only a looser if your team does manage to win both away games, but then there is a better chance you advance. I've seen this done in the non affiliated Atlantic League where my local Long Island Ducks were guarenteed the ending spots on the playoffs and the champinships.

[Night Strike]

The 2-3 format was only done for this season because the extra wild card was added after the season schedule had already been made. It will go back to a 2-2-1 schedule next season.

For the record, I still disagree with adding the second wild card, even though my team won the game (and even after considering the aid to the division winners).

[strike wolf]

Which even that I don't think I like. Personally I think the old system worked. the better teams had home field advantage and the #1 team went against the wild card who is already supposed to be the worst team to make it to the playoffs (with uneven divisions this isn't always the case). Presumably with home field advantage the #1 team should be able to take at least 2 of 3 at home and steal a win on the road. Plus as far as not seeing the number 1 pitcher twice. I think people would rather see the best pitchers more than once in a series anyways. I think it's a shame that in a sport that's more volatile day to day than any other major sport in the U.S. (you never know when a pitcher may have a bad day. you never know when certain pitchers in your bullpen might have a bad day. You can't always tell when the Umpire is going to give you a small or big strike zone. A hitter that has gotten a hit 8 out of his last 9 at bats with 2 home runs may go 0-6 the next game), they put 4 good teams in a situation where 1 bad game could end their season. In this case, a bad call may have ended the Braves season (I'm not taking responsibility away from the Braves. If it had not been for the multiple errors and the mental error from Simmons that caused the interference call on the bunt [I've heard a few Braves fans argue this but it's sour grapes, it was the right call], we probably wouldn't have even needed for that call to go our way to win the game.)

[nietzsche]

Yeah, and after 162 games, injuries, all that travel how can it be possibly to put all you played in a 1-game series?

On the regular season, Braves were better than the Cards, and that made the Cards fight till the end when Braves clinched way before, and knew they were going to advance even before, just playing in neutral.

So it's totally understandable that the Cardinals were more ready for a decisive 1-game right after the regular season ended. And I like the Cards better, I enjoy watching Yadier play and for some reason they are more appealing to me that the Braves, but I think it's just not fair.

The changes are being made because MLB wants more money, but they are risking quality here. Eventually players will start modifying their approach once it hits them that you can play very good for 162 games, grinding and grinding, and lose it all in 1 game.

The first 1-game playoff was a disaster, we will see if MLB learns anything from it. 1 Wild card is the limit to my taste, it gives a chance to teams like Boston and Tampa that will always have to play against the Yankees' budget, or Philladelphia's budget.

[Symmetry]

As a non-American who likes to watch baseball from time-to-time, can anyone explain what's happening in this thread?

[nietzsche]

As a non-American who likes to watch baseball from time-to-time, can anyone explain what's happening in this thread?

If you are not familiar with the infield-fly rule it's there to protect the team at bat from the defensive player to let the ball drop and make a double play.

So whenever an easy fly ball is going to be caught in the inflied of very close to the infield and there are 2 or more runners on, the umpire calls the infield-fly rule, making the out automatic.

In this case however, the left field ump called infield-fly when the play was far from the infield AND the SS never had it easy, in fact, he only gets under the ball right at the end and seeing how it wasn't going to be an easy play for him, decides to move and allow the left field to make the catch, but the left fielder had already abandoned the play.

In the video you can see how Kozma (the SS) moves away from the play a fraction of a second that the ump raises his hand to call the play.

The outcome, runners in first and second with two outs instead of bases loaded with one out. With the Braves trailing, in a 1-game playoff, it was disaster.

[Symmetry]

As a non-American who likes to watch baseball from time-to-time, can anyone explain what's happening in this thread?

If you are not familiar with the infield-fly rule it's there to protect the team at bat from the defensive player to let the ball drop and make a double play.

So whenever an easy fly ball is going to be caught in the inflied of very close to the infield and there are 2 or more runners on, the umpire calls the infield-fly rule, making the out automatic.

In this case however, the left field ump called infield-fly when the play was far from the infield AND the SS never had it easy, in fact, he only gets under the ball right at the end and seeing how it wasn't going to be an easy play for him, decides to move and allow the left field to make the catch, but the left fielder had already abandoned the play.

In the video you can see how Kozma (the SS) moves away from the play a fraction of a second that the ump raises his hand to call the play.

The outcome, runners in first and second with two outs instead of bases loaded with one out. With the Braves trailing, in a 1-game playoff, it was disaster.

I got about 90% of that, and the vid was useful. My sister's father in law will be happy when I when I sort of understand why he's pissed off when we watch baseball together.

Cheers.