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2dimes wrote:Argentina, do you think the catholics are after the Falkland islands?
2dimes wrote:Argentina, do you think the catholics are after the Falkland islands?
Critics have accused him of ignoring the plight of victims during the countryās military dictatorship from 1976-1983, despite victims and their relatives relating first-hand accounts of torture, death and kidnappings to the priests he supervised as the local provincial of the Jesuit Order.[31]
On 15 April 2005, a human rights lawyer filed a criminal complaint against Bergoglio, as superior in the Society of Jesus of Argentina, accusing him of involvement in the kidnapping by the Navy in May 1976 (during the military dictatorship) of two Jesuit priests.[32] The priests, Orlando Yorio and Francisco Jalics, were found alive five months later, drugged and semi-nude. Yorio accused Bergoglio of effectively handing them over to the death squads by declining to tell the regime that he endorsed their work. Jalics refused to discuss it after moving into seclusion in a German monastery.[33] Horacio Verbitsky, an Argentine investigative journalist and author, wrote a book about this and other related events titled El Silencio: de Paulo VI a Bergoglio: las relaciones secretas de la Iglesia con la ESMA.[34]
crispybits wrote:
saxitoxin wrote:Your position is more complex than the federal tax code. As soon as I think I understand it, I find another index of cross-references, exceptions and amendments I have to apply.
Timminz wrote:Yo mama is so classless, she could be a Marxist utopia.
crispybits wrote:And a little humour from the Daily Mash:
http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/inte ... 3031462640
PLAYER57832 wrote:The fact that he is calling himself "Francis" gives one hope.
crispybits wrote:It's not just complicity, by definition the religion is fascist itself. It's hardly a surprise that it finds like-minded types to share afternoon coffee and cake with.
chang50 wrote: don't know which is worse the widespread paedophilia and cover ups
chang50 wrote:the complicity with Fascism.
thegreekdog wrote:PLAYER57832 wrote:The fact that he is calling himself "Francis" gives one hope.
I'm not hopeful. Of the various papal candidates, I think he was the worst choice (or second worst choice). I'm not saying we needed to have an African pope for the first time in 1,500 years. I'm saying we needed to have a more liberal pope (at least a little bit). I thought they would go back to that after Benedict, but apparently not.
crispybits wrote:It's not just complicity, by definition the religion is fascist itself. It's hardly a surprise that it finds like-minded types to share afternoon coffee and cake with.
PLAYER57832 wrote:thegreekdog wrote:PLAYER57832 wrote:The fact that he is calling himself "Francis" gives one hope.
I'm not hopeful. Of the various papal candidates, I think he was the worst choice (or second worst choice). I'm not saying we needed to have an African pope for the first time in 1,500 years. I'm saying we needed to have a more liberal pope (at least a little bit). I thought they would go back to that after Benedict, but apparently not.
I have hope, but I think that expecting the church to go immediately more liberal would be doing too much, too soon.
What gives me hope is that if he truly does take the church back to real fundamentals of caring about one's brother and poverty, it will begin to set the stage where those other issues can be considered.
Ultimately, liberalism is really just about putting your care for other people above structure or rules, looking for real answers from almost any source (not talking political liberalism which as we have discussed is often just left wing dictating). That is actually the very change Christ brought to the Jewish faith. You see that point over and over in Christ's teachings, whether it is healing on the sabbath or saying that Mary Magdelene was right to listen to his words instead of just helping with the dishes.
The vow to poverty is getting a lot of attention. It can be a very meaningful stance, or it can be a kind of arrogance, even competition. Sort of "praying on the street corner" instead of in private.
What I find interesting is things like his chastising priests who refused to baptise children of single mothers, and the way in which he apparently chastized them... as I understand it that they were putting rules and their own perceived [false] piety above people and serving God truly.
Anyway, time will tell.
PLAYER57832 wrote:crispybits wrote:It's not just complicity, by definition the religion is fascist itself. It's hardly a surprise that it finds like-minded types to share afternoon coffee and cake with.
No more than your idea that anyone with faith is obviously not thinking straight.
No single idea is fascism, fascism is about not allowing opposition. Most modern Christians are no less willing to let others be than atheists.
The article was humerous, and largely because it did have just enough truth in it to be painful.. but expanded. Trying to paint is as anything else is beneath you crispy.
PLAYER57832 wrote:The fact that he is calling himself "Francis" gives one hope.
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