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Education in the USA

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Re: Education in the USA

Postby Lootifer on Thu May 09, 2013 7:46 pm

Likely nothing more than similar articles to what he's submitted previously, as far as I am concerned the end result of my investigation is:

- There is a minor amount of political idealogy indoctrination in the US education system, mostly at the tertiary level
- There is a surprisingly (?) high proportion of liberal instructors at the tertiary level, the impact of this is, as yet, seemingly unquantified
- There is a vocal minority that appear to be sensationalising data in order to progress a political agenda
- Without further evidence the counterfactual conclusion (that education is primarily about education) still seems perfectly valid

Agree?
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby BigBallinStalin on Fri May 10, 2013 12:39 pm

Lootifer wrote:Likely nothing more than similar articles to what he's submitted previously, as far as I am concerned the end result of my investigation is:

- There is a minor amount of political idealogy indoctrination in the US education system, mostly at the tertiary level
- There is a surprisingly (?) high proportion of liberal instructors at the tertiary level, the impact of this is, as yet, seemingly unquantified
- There is a vocal minority that appear to be sensationalising data in order to progress a political agenda
- Without further evidence the counterfactual conclusion (that education is primarily about education) still seems perfectly valid

Agree?



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Re: Education in the USA

Postby Nobunaga on Fri May 10, 2013 8:15 pm

Woodruff wrote:
Nobunaga wrote:
Woodruff wrote:
Nobunaga wrote:
PLAYER57832 wrote:... Too bad, you have not been educated enough to really understand that hatred of disputing ideas is not a substitute for thought.


Typical, personal attack in lieu of argument. The classic liberal deflection.


What about my point regarding "classic liberalism"? Nothing?

Nobunaga wrote:I have no hatred for disputing ideas, only for the blind faith put in those ideas by people with very selective awareness.


Indeed. That's why I've seen you so often disagree strongly with Phatscotty methodologies in these fora. Oh, wait...


Classic: (from Merriams) : typical <a classic example of chicanery> <a classic error>

I did not intend the use of the word as it would have been used with say, classical Greece. Why do I have to explain this? This thread is about education... maybe this misunderstanding reveals to us problems with our system of education in the US. ;)


Well, that's an interesting dodge, but were you going to entirely avoid the point then? Or did you just want to pretend that I'm speaking of some historical-but-long-dead-animal when I speak of a "classic liberal"?


Not dodging - didn't notice. Was that in this thread someplace? Sorry.
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby Phatscotty on Sat May 11, 2013 12:37 pm

Lootifer wrote:Likely nothing more than similar articles to what he's submitted previously, as far as I am concerned the end result of my investigation is:

- There is a minor amount of political idealogy indoctrination in the US education system, mostly at the tertiary level
- There is a surprisingly (?) high proportion of liberal instructors at the tertiary level, the impact of this is, as yet, seemingly unquantified
- There is a vocal minority that appear to be sensationalising data in order to progress a political agenda
- Without further evidence the counterfactual conclusion (that education is primarily about education) still seems perfectly valid

Agree?


Hell no!! LOL

There is a major amount of political idealogy indoctrination in the US education system. I have seen it myself, and not just one time or in one school, but many times in every school I've been in.

There is a high proportion of liberal instructors. We haven't got into teachers unions yet, but that is one of the sources. My best friends wife is a teacher, and she gets the union mail out every month, and inside there are specific instructions on how to teach children about the wonders of Leftism, and how to deal with and oppress Conservative ideas. There are also specific instructions to "teach" children how to vote the "right" way.

There is a growing number of people who are not indoctrinated that are pointing out data in order to recognize a political agenda of Leftism that is and has been shoved down the throat of millions of students.

also, there is a minority of people who have not went through the US education system, have no first hand evidence or examples or experience, are not surrounded by people who can confirm this based on their own first hand experiences, and willingly dismiss all evidence contrary to what they want to believe. They are also usually people who do not live in America

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Re: Education in the USA

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sat May 11, 2013 12:42 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
Lootifer wrote:Likely nothing more than similar articles to what he's submitted previously, as far as I am concerned the end result of my investigation is:

- There is a minor amount of political idealogy indoctrination in the US education system, mostly at the tertiary level
- There is a surprisingly (?) high proportion of liberal instructors at the tertiary level, the impact of this is, as yet, seemingly unquantified
- There is a vocal minority that appear to be sensationalising data in order to progress a political agenda
- Without further evidence the counterfactual conclusion (that education is primarily about education) still seems perfectly valid

Agree?


Hell no!! LOL

There is a major amount of political idealogy indoctrination in the US education system. I have seen it myself, and not just one time or in one school, but many times in every school I've been in.

There is a high proportion of liberal instructors. We haven't got into teachers unions yet, but that is one of the sources. My best friends wife is a teacher, and she gets the union mail out every month, and inside there are specific instructions on how to teach children about the wonders of Leftism, and how to deal with and oppress Conservative ideas. There are also specific instructions to "teach" children how to vote the "right" way.

There is a growing number of people who are not indoctrinated that are pointing out data in order to recognize a political agenda of Leftism that is and has been shoved down the throat of millions of students.

also, there is a minority of people who have not went through the US education system, have no first hand evidence or examples or experience, are not surrounded by people who can confirm this based on their own first hand experiences, and willingly dismiss all evidence contrary to what they want to believe. They are also usually people who do not live in America



Think harder.
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby Phatscotty on Sat May 11, 2013 12:46 pm

Really BBS? Why respond to a post where you didn't even watch the video or get the example I showed? My posts are filled with example after example after example. All you and your ilk are doing is "nu-uh, nu-uh". Any dolt can do that.

Think of ways you can participate in the subject matter. For example, you could show us how Universities are dominated by Conservatives....

Give us something worth reading/viewing, and it will be read or viewed. We already have enough Woodruff's and Andy's. There is no demand for more.

How about an opinion from you BBS. You have shown you are highly interested in this subject, so you probably have an opinion. Are our universities dominated by Conservatives? Or Liberals? Are you able to make a statement one way or the other? What do you think the ratio is?
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sat May 11, 2013 1:14 pm

Phatscotty wrote:Really BBS? Why respond to a post where you didn't even watch the video or get the example I showed? My posts are filled with example after example after example. All you and your ilk are doing is "nu-uh, nu-uh". Any dolt can do that.

Think of ways you can participate in the subject matter. For example, you could show us how Universities are dominated by Conservatives....

Give us something worth reading/viewing, and it will be read or viewed. We already have enough Woodruff's and Andy's. There is no demand for more.

How about an opinion from you BBS. You have shown you are highly interested in this subject, so you probably have an opinion. Are our universities dominated by Conservatives? Or Liberals? Are you able to make a statement one way or the other? What do you think the ratio is?



I've already addressed your position (which still suffers from the same 3 problems):
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=188997&hilit=For+example%3A+Would+you+find+certain+facts%2C&start=585#p4162688


I've noticed three problems with this post.

When engaging in social science, (1) we have to control for the observer's confirmation bias. For example, you are seeing one side of the story, and upon accepting the data, you fit them into your preconceived conclusion: the Left are dominating, or PC brainwashing, or whatever. But the observer must ask himself: "what am I missing?" What of the alleged domination by the Right? Are there similar stories of the Right 'oppressing'/shaping kids' minds--similar to the Left?

In other words, if you spot a phenomenon and conclude something like "it is dominant," the scientist within you should be asking: "compared to what?"


Then there's other issues. (2) You seem to be having a methodological problem, e.g. your flimsy Left v. Right dichotomy. If the division is not clear, then it becomes susceptible to an arbitrary lumping of 'the bad' exclusively into 'the Left'. This will render your conclusions and your observations erroneous. You'll fit the 'disliked' into 'the Left' and possibly ignore instances which are 'disliked' but of 'the Right'.

Other necessary questions arise: Is brainwashing/indoctrination actually occurring? Is it centrally planned or is it the outcome of some spontaneous order? What does 'brainwashing' even mean, and how do I know when I 'see' it?


And finally, (3) ideology. Let's define 'ideology' as a set of beliefs predominantly based on feeling and intuition while being complemented by cognitive bias. In the realm of human affairs, to control for ideology, one must take a 'positive economics' approach (or in other words, a 'scientific' approach, or an empirical approach with a lovely dose of logic). While reading your post and your history, you've largely developed ideas from others which you take as given, and then rabidly apply them, so that a particular image of reality (as you define it) appears. Thus, "the Left is dominating."

Your image of reality may be entirely false, but it is true in that you define the meaning of your reality--which is largely guided by your ideology. To better understand the world, the social scientist must engage in the unpleasant task of removing or distancing oneself from their favored ideology. Instead, we approach a scenario and using a variety of methodologies, we seek to explain what is happening.

Unfortunately, it is difficult to lump complex explanations into bumper stickers which the Rabid Masses can chant and scream and vote upon. Another problem is that people love taking scientific findings, and converting them into completely different conclusions. Then they proudly carry them to their fora, households, or workplaces where they bellow about 'the facts'.


It's up to you to improve your position (not me); otherwise, no one should take it seriously.
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby Phatscotty on Sat May 11, 2013 1:42 pm

I am showing plenty of examples and reports and studies, and will continue for months. You can say they don't matter, or don't show anything one way or the other, or whatever you want to say. They are examples that support my premise. There are tons more examples too, while not so many that oppose my premise. Why is that, if you had to take a guess?

None of this is based on my ideology or my bias. This is about pointing out the bias of the establishment in education. Sure, there are exceptions, but nobody can offer any, and even if they could, it's not going to overturn the norm, certainly not a norm as dominant as the Left's control over the education system. Ask yourself, who butters the education system's bread?

Why would anyone need to look further than the reality that schools need public funding, and that public funding needs to come from taxation, therefore it's in their best interest to promote supporting school levies/higher taxes, which in the classroom translates into voting for Democrats. It's not my left/right paradigm, it's theirs. I am only pointing it out.

Teachers unions are dominated by the left. That's just a fact, and I don't have to spend hours an billions of dollars proving it time and again. I understand what you are trying to say, but with something this common sensical and overwhelming, it's a waste of time. Anyone who has attended college knows exactly what I am talking about. Of course I cannot prove that in every single case, nobody can. If that's how you want to observe the world, then that's on you.

I try to make my posts comprehensible to the average person. Your posts may be intelligent from time to time, but that doesn't mean many people understand them, or don't just ignore them. Even if your post is 100% correct, if few people can understand it, then it's not going to make an impact.

Our education system is as dominated by the Left as the sky is blue. If you have to wait until millions of hours are poured into studying this and conclusions are reached with no opposition in order to take this as reality, then you are going to wait for a very long time, as what you seem to be asking for will probably never happen. As you noted, the issue is very complex.

So let's focus on the easy ones and go from there, in order to start noticing if my statement can be seen to be true in either direction, based on what can easily be proven.

Would you like to offer your opinion if our education system leans left or right?
Is it in an educations system's best interest to elect and promote electing Democrats, or Republicans?
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby Woodruff on Sat May 11, 2013 2:46 pm

Phatscotty wrote:There is a major amount of political idealogy indoctrination in the US education system. I have seen it myself, and not just one time or in one school, but many times in every school I've been in.


There really isn't, no. I can't speak for what you've seen, but without declaring it as "cognitive bias", I can only say that it's probably marginal instances rather than a consistent theme. Particularly given how you view...well...pretty much every other issue, it really is difficult not to think that you may be seeing this in a similar way.

Phatscotty wrote:There is a high proportion of liberal instructors. We haven't got into teachers unions yet, but that is one of the sources.


Teachers unions? Do teachers unions do the hiring, Phatscotty? Do teachers unions tell their members how to vote, Phatscotty?

I can speak with authority in saying that they do not hire. I can speak with authority that the three teachers unions I've belonged to do not tell their members how to vote.

Phatscotty wrote:My best friends wife is a teacher, and she gets the union mail out every month, and inside there are specific instructions on how to teach children about the wonders of Leftism, and how to deal with and oppress Conservative ideas. There are also specific instructions to "teach" children how to vote the "right" way.


I'm just going to go ahead and call you a liar here.

Phatscotty wrote:There is a growing number of people who are not indoctrinated that are pointing out data in order to recognize a political agenda of Leftism that is and has been shoved down the throat of millions of students.


There is a growing level of batshit crazy? And all this time, I just thought it was you.

Phatscotty wrote:also, there is a minority of people who have not went through the US education system, have no first hand evidence or examples or experience, are not surrounded by people who can confirm this based on their own first hand experiences, and willingly dismiss all evidence contrary to what they want to believe. They are also usually people who do not live in America.


Your paranoia is painful.
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby Woodruff on Sat May 11, 2013 2:48 pm

Phatscotty wrote:Really BBS? Why respond to a post where you didn't even watch the video or get the example I showed? My posts are filled with example after example after example. All you and your ilk are doing is "nu-uh, nu-uh". Any dolt can do that.


Given that your original premise is highly irrational plus the method for which you typically respond to valid criticism, that may be the only valuable response.

Phatscotty wrote:Give us something worth reading/viewing, and it will be read or viewed. We already have enough Woodruff's and Andy's. There is no demand for more.


Yes, you should definitely continue to hide from my points. It's really all you've got at this point.
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby Woodruff on Sat May 11, 2013 2:55 pm

Phatscotty wrote:None of this is based on my ideology or my bias.


Well that's just patently dishonest.

Phatscotty wrote:Teachers unions are dominated by the left. That's just a fact, and I don't have to spend hours an billions of dollars proving it time and again.


What is it that you believe teachers unions are doing to further this oppression of conservatism in education, Phatscotty?

Phatscotty wrote:I try to make my posts comprehensible to the average person.


I don't think you even understand most of your posts.

Phatscotty wrote:Your posts may be intelligent from time to time, but that doesn't mean many people understand them, or don't just ignore them. Even if your post is 100% correct, if few people can understand it, then it's not going to make an impact.


What about when a post is 0% correct?

Phatscotty wrote:Our education system is as dominated by the Left as the sky is blue.


I don't think the term you're looking for is "dominated", because it's really not applicable.

Phatscotty wrote:Would you like to offer your opinion if our education system leans left or right?
Is it in an educations system's best interest to elect and promote electing Democrats, or Republicans?


It is in the education systems best interest to elect and promote individuals who are actually seriously concerned about education. In the past, that wasn't necessarily Democrats or Republicans. However, when VIEWED AS A GROUP (rather than individuals), these days that does seem to be more of a Democrat thing than a Republican thing. That has nothing at all to do with trying to "dominate the system with liberals", but rather to do with "trying to make the educational process a good one".
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby Phatscotty on Sat May 11, 2013 3:32 pm

A new book by Kyle Olson of Education Action Group exposes the progressive agenda in many of America's government schools. It reveals the curriculum, who the activists are and how to fight back.


nice red shirts!


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Re: Education in the USA

Postby Woodruff on Sat May 11, 2013 7:31 pm

Phatscotty wrote:
A new book by Kyle Olson of Education Action Group exposes the progressive agenda in many of America's government schools. It reveals the curriculum, who the activists are and how to fight back.


Yeah, funny thing about him and his group (if you're interested in the truth): http://eagtruth.wordpress.com/

Phatscotty wrote:nice red shirts!


It kind of clashes with your brown one, does it?

Phatscotty wrote:
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So you don't believe we should take care of the planet or treat all men as equals either?
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby BigBallinStalin on Sun May 12, 2013 4:12 am

Phatscotty wrote:I am showing plenty of examples and reports and studies, and will continue for months. You can say they don't matter, or don't show anything one way or the other, or whatever you want to say. They are examples that support my premise. There are tons more examples too, while not so many that oppose my premise. Why is that, if you had to take a guess?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_bias

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby Lootifer on Sun May 12, 2013 6:27 pm

Phatscotty wrote:Hell no!! LOL

There is a major amount of political idealogy indoctrination in the US education system. I have seen it myself, and not just one time or in one school, but many times in every school I've been in.

There is a high proportion of liberal instructors. We haven't got into teachers unions yet, but that is one of the sources. My best friends wife is a teacher, and she gets the union mail out every month, and inside there are specific instructions on how to teach children about the wonders of Leftism, and how to deal with and oppress Conservative ideas. There are also specific instructions to "teach" children how to vote the "right" way.

There is a growing number of people who are not indoctrinated that are pointing out data in order to recognize a political agenda of Leftism that is and has been shoved down the throat of millions of students.

also, there is a minority of people who have not went through the US education system, have no first hand evidence or examples or experience, are not surrounded by people who can confirm this based on their own first hand experiences, and willingly dismiss all evidence contrary to what they want to believe. They are also usually people who do not live in America


Firstly we need to see evidence of the underlined.

Secondly lets run through your evidence to get a feel for how representative it is of the overall education system. We'll have to use high level assumptions but that should be fine to get a feel for how representative your sample is (i.e. how big the sample size is).

There are roughly 14.6 million full time students. Lets say that they take what 5-10 papers/classes per year? With 2-5 classes per week? Thats between 300-1500 classes per year per student; lets assume that the class size ranges from what? 20-100?

All works out to roughly 44-1095 million classes (nice range due to hugely variable assumptions, but thats fine). Lets be pessimestic and take the lower end of the assumptions. 44 million classes per year.

Say you have ample evidence that you can keep turning out. Say its 50-100 professors indoctrinating in 50-100 classes (lets say you only video tape the worst 10% or something). Thats 2500-10000 indoctrinating classes (lets say you only video tape the worst 1% or something meaning you should be able to find 25 clips of lessons quite easily). Thats 0.006-0.023% of all classes are indoctrinating with some very indoctrination favourable assumptions

For reference: To be convinved of a serious issue I would want to see at least 1% of classes showing serious forms of indoctrination. That would mean each year there should be 438000 classes where serious indoctrination is occuring. If this was the case I think you would have slightly more focus on the topic (rather than one bias research book, and a handful of activist websites).
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby Woodruff on Sun May 12, 2013 8:06 pm

Lootifer wrote:lets assume that the class size ranges from what? 20-100?


20-100? Egad, don't give them any ideas. <grin>

More like 15-35 per class, I would guess.
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby Lootifer on Sun May 12, 2013 10:29 pm

You never attended like Econ101 or Math101 or some other popular class where you sat in a lecture theater of 100+ students?
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby Phatscotty on Sun May 12, 2013 10:39 pm

Lootifer wrote:
Phatscotty wrote:Hell no!! LOL

There is a major amount of political idealogy indoctrination in the US education system. I have seen it myself, and not just one time or in one school, but many times in every school I've been in.

There is a high proportion of liberal instructors. We haven't got into teachers unions yet, but that is one of the sources. My best friends wife is a teacher, and she gets the union mail out every month, and inside there are specific instructions on how to teach children about the wonders of Leftism, and how to deal with and oppress Conservative ideas. There are also specific instructions to "teach" children how to vote the "right" way.

There is a growing number of people who are not indoctrinated that are pointing out data in order to recognize a political agenda of Leftism that is and has been shoved down the throat of millions of students.

also, there is a minority of people who have not went through the US education system, have no first hand evidence or examples or experience, are not surrounded by people who can confirm this based on their own first hand experiences, and willingly dismiss all evidence contrary to what they want to believe. They are also usually people who do not live in America


Firstly we need to see evidence of the underlined.

Secondly lets run through your evidence to get a feel for how representative it is of the overall education system. We'll have to use high level assumptions but that should be fine to get a feel for how representative your sample is (i.e. how big the sample size is).

There are roughly 14.6 million full time students. Lets say that they take what 5-10 papers/classes per year? With 2-5 classes per week? Thats between 300-1500 classes per year per student; lets assume that the class size ranges from what? 20-100?

All works out to roughly 44-1095 million classes (nice range due to hugely variable assumptions, but thats fine). Lets be pessimestic and take the lower end of the assumptions. 44 million classes per year.

Say you have ample evidence that you can keep turning out. Say its 50-100 professors indoctrinating in 50-100 classes (lets say you only video tape the worst 10% or something). Thats 2500-10000 indoctrinating classes (lets say you only video tape the worst 1% or something meaning you should be able to find 25 clips of lessons quite easily). Thats 0.006-0.023% of all classes are indoctrinating with some very indoctrination favourable assumptions

For reference: To be convinved of a serious issue I would want to see at least 1% of classes showing serious forms of indoctrination. That would mean each year there should be 438000 classes where serious indoctrination is occuring. If this was the case I think you would have slightly more focus on the topic (rather than one bias research book, and a handful of activist websites).


I respect your willingness to have an honest conversation with honor.

I can get that underlined for ya. Of course what I was specifically referencing (the teachers union mailout my best friends wife gets every month) was at the height of the election of 2012.....but I'm confident I can pick something out of that mailer every month. I haven't been challenged like this since I had to take a photo of my Champion jackets from a decade of union softball tournaments to prove I was a union member.

for example, the the largest teachers union (National Education Association) gave 20 times more money (95% of 44 mil) to Democrats than the Koch brothers (95% of 2.2 mil) gave to Republicans total. (American Federation of teachers 35 mil). along with many other teachers unions, it's average for them to give 95% to Democrats.

Image

Image

Can you concede a couple of things, just as a base to start from? Sorry if you already have, as there has been some double threading going on and plenty of disruptions and chaos and derailing from other posters, but here are some things...

#1) that teachers unions, by political affiliation and campaign contributions, are dominated by Democrats
#2) that public schools are dependent on public money, and therefore are always going to support (and promote, which is key) whoever offers the most money (Democrats)

Also, our classes usually top out around 30-35. They can get bigger at some major universities, but at mine they were never bigger than 50 in rare cases. 100? Hmm, I'm sure there are some that big
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby Phatscotty on Sun May 12, 2013 11:06 pm

As an aside, I bet common core is talked about at this meeting

http://www.wbtw.com/story/22217297/bill ... -sc-island

CHARLESTON, SC -

Bill Gates, Chairman of Microsoft and one of the richest people in the world, is spending time in the Lowcountry.

WCBD confirmed the American business magnate is at the Sanctuary on Kiawah Island.

Suspicion was raised when nearly 20 very expensive jets were seen lined up at the Charleston International Airport on Johns Island.

Officials with the Beach Company confirmed to WCBD that other big names such as New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, TV host Oprah Winfrey and Billionaire Warren Buffet flew into the Charleston Executive airport on Johns Island Wednesday night.

Other prominent people said to also be staying there this weekend are Jeb Bush and Dan Gilbert, owner of the Cleveland Cavaliers.
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby Lootifer on Sun May 12, 2013 11:15 pm

#1 Arent unions predominantly left wing entities? So likely you are correct. I am not much of a union fan as I personally believe there are better avenues in modern society in which to protect the worker...

#2 How do public schools themselves have any political leverage? What you say is obviously correct but I dont see how this democratic support is relevant to the discussion. I believe you when you say things like the majority of university teachers are liberals or whatever but again this does not convert into left wing indoctrination
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby Phatscotty on Sun May 12, 2013 11:23 pm

Of course it's relevant. What we have here is the fact that the system is heavily dominated by people who vote for Democrats. Sure, that does not prove that there is indoctrination. I'm not building my case around this either. It's jsut the very tip of the starting point. But, if there was indoctrination, you would expect to find the system dominated by one ideology, right? So let's explore that environment, in the teachers lounge, at the union meetings, preparing for PTA meetings, school councils. We still know it's true there are hardly any Conservatives involved with any of that,the thinking, the perspectives, the jargon, the direction they collectively try to move a student or parents or an education board, is about as linear as it can get. Right? Do you at least concede, concerning the number of Liberal teachers, they are most likely not teaching Conservative values, and probably not accurately describing Conservative values, and as I have shown, many times, actively mock and attack Conservatives and Conservative values in the classroom.

Just take it one thing at a time, pleas don't jump to conclusions. Just laying the groundwork.
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby Woodruff on Mon May 13, 2013 1:14 am

Lootifer wrote:You never attended like Econ101 or Math101 or some other popular class where you sat in a lecture theater of 100+ students?


Sorry, I was thinking more in terms of high school. My bad.
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby Woodruff on Mon May 13, 2013 1:29 am

Phatscotty wrote:So let's explore that environment, in the teachers lounge, at the union meetings, preparing for PTA meetings, school councils.


You want know what we talk about in the teachers' lounge? We talk about how Dylan isn't particularly smart, but he sure works hard. We talk about how Jeff is lazy and how can we possibly get him to complete and turn in his homework. We wonder why Jane has missed the last week and a half of school and we hope she's ok. We talk about "what do you do in class to make historical segments of your material less boring?". It sure as hell isn't about politics or how we can indoctrinate kids. It's laughable that you think we even might EVER have either of those conversations you're implying.

Union meetings are bore-fests that have nothing to do with indoctrinating anything, other than perhaps whether we should lobby to have our class sizes adjusted or are our principals supportive enough in giving us some flexibility in the classroom. Again, nothing of the things you are intimating. Even the union flyers/emails I get are just reminders of things like "get your vaccinations up to date" or "hey, here's a $25 discount at the mall because we love teachers!" or "don't forget to go vote (with no mention of who we should vote for at all)" or "hey, don't forget that Sunday is Mother's Day!" (yeah, I actually got that one last week).

I haven't been to any PTA meetings, frankly, so I can't speak with much authority there. But I cannot possibly imagine that Nebraska's HIGHLY-CONSERVATIVE parents would be very interested in listening to thoughts on how teachers can indoctrinate their kids into the liberal philosophy. It's hilarious that you think a PTA meeting might be such a venue.

School councils...you mean like student councils? Or are you referring to something else, that I would know by a different term?

Phatscotty wrote:We still know it's true there are hardly any Conservatives involved with any of that,the thinking, the perspectives, the jargon, the direction they collectively try to move a student or parents or an education board, is about as linear as it can get. Right?


No. Not right. At all.

Phatscotty wrote:Do you at least concede, concerning the number of Liberal teachers, they are most likely not teaching Conservative values, and probably not accurately describing Conservative values, and as I have shown, many times, actively mock and attack Conservatives and Conservative values in the classroom.


That's just it, Phatscotty. The math teacher isn't teaching conservative OR liberal values. The history teacher isn't teaching conservative OR liberal values. The civics teacher, whether you want to believe it or not, isn't teaching conservative OR liberal values. Everyone is teaching their curriculum as it is described in an effort to get the students ready for their mandated testing, as testing is what the teaching world sadly revolves around now. Hell, I probably have more affect on the students as far as "values" go than most teachers in the school, because I have the ability to be flexible in my curriculum (no federal or state standards, only USAF standards, yay!), and the extent of my "teaching values" are self-discipline, respect for yourself and others, and community service is a good thing. That's pretty much it. There is no time for teaching any conservative or liberal bias, there is no time for trying to convince kids to ignore what their parents say, there is no time for trying to steal the kids soul and sell it to Satan. There's no time for all of this bullshit that you want to pretend is happening in our schools.

Phatscotty wrote:Just take it one thing at a time, pleas don't jump to conclusions. Just laying the groundwork.


Your "groundwork" is all sand. Why don't you try to pour a little concrete instead?
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby Lootifer on Mon May 13, 2013 2:45 am

Haha what are you talking about Woodruff, my mum used to come home from teaching all day and marked that days conquests on her "Converted to the Liberal Agenda" chalk board! We all went out for dinner at the end of the week if she got her union allocated quota!
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Re: Education in the USA

Postby PLAYER57832 on Tue May 14, 2013 4:10 pm

Phattscotty's REAL problem is that schools are not indoctrinating students to think like him.

"Thinking" to Phattscotty means reciting what he believes.. nothing else.
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