police officer kills dog infront of master

[Serbia]

Additionally why did he have to shoot the dog mutliple times? The dog was clearly scared even though he wanted his owner back. Just shooting once in the air would've been enough to scare him. And if you have to shoot him, why shoot him multiple times? Why not just shoot him once? Shooting multiple times shows me that the officer shot him not to wound him, but with the aim to kill him.

Shooting in the air?!?! The officers may not be trained to deal with dogs, but you've obviously never been trained with guns. Read the following story, then explain to me why "shooting once in the air" is always a horrible fucking idea.

Stray bullet fired July 4 2012 kills student

Your ignorance concerning guns alone proves to me that you are far from qualified to comment on what the police officer should or should not have done.

Bollocks.

[waauw]

Additionally why did he have to shoot the dog mutliple times? The dog was clearly scared even though he wanted his owner back. Just shooting once in the air would've been enough to scare him. And if you have to shoot him, why shoot him multiple times? Why not just shoot him once? Shooting multiple times shows me that the officer shot him not to wound him, but with the aim to kill him.

Shooting in the air?!?! The officers may not be trained to deal with dogs, but you've obviously never been trained with guns. Read the following story, then explain to me why "shooting once in the air" is always a horrible fucking idea.

Stray bullet fired July 4 2012 kills student

Your ignorance concerning guns alone proves to me that you are far from qualified to comment on what the police officer should or should not have done.

Bollocks.

I admit, I know nothing about guns. In europe guns are forbidden, so knowledge about guns is trivial.
But I do know about dogs, having had 7 dogs so far. The cops still made a grave mistake imo. This dog was obviously not aggressive, but the actions of the police officers were aggressive. It's common knowledge that sudden arm movements and closing in on animals can be interpreted by them as hostile.

[Woodruff]

Additionally why did he have to shoot the dog mutliple times? The dog was clearly scared even though he wanted his owner back. Just shooting once in the air would've been enough to scare him. And if you have to shoot him, why shoot him multiple times? Why not just shoot him once? Shooting multiple times shows me that the officer shot him not to wound him, but with the aim to kill him.

Shooting in the air?!?! The officers may not be trained to deal with dogs, but you've obviously never been trained with guns. Read the following story, then explain to me why "shooting once in the air" is always a horrible fucking idea.

You Detroitians and your gangs shooting guns all over the place...I tell ya.

[KoolBak]

I have several close friends that are cops....a thankless fooking job and one that many (most?) can't keep from affecting (ruining?) their lives. They DON't abide ANY crap from bleeding hearts or dumbass loudmouths.

I assume the cops told that dumbass loudmouth to STF out of the cordoned off area...most likely repeatedly. He ignored them (arrestable)....he made a nuisance (arrestable); as I pointed out earlier, he didn't properly restrain his animal (it then ATTACKED someone - arrestable AND an automatic death sentence for the animal). Period....they were justified; if was my house in the area, I'd have thanked them. If I EVER have a dog APPROACH me or my children that looks threatening and I'm armed....that critter's going down.

I've had Dobermans for over 25 years - even though they are the sweetest, most wonderful family animals, I put one in my truck and someone screws with it or me, that dog is going berserk - it's what they do. I have NEVER left a window down more than 6 inches.....just ASKING to be sued / arrested / have the animal killed.

Interesting feedback here.

[Haggis_McMutton]

I have several close friends that are cops....a thankless fooking job and one that many (most?) can't keep from affecting (ruining?) their lives. They DON't abide ANY crap from bleeding hearts or dumbass loudmouths.

I assume the cops told that dumbass loudmouth to STF out of the cordoned off area...most likely repeatedly. He ignored them (arrestable)....he made a nuisance (arrestable);

Why do cops in the US have such a god complex? As you say, ignoring, inconveniencing or not groveling to them seems to be a huge offense over there. (when I was in the US, I was in the car when a friend of mine was pulled over. I can't call the interaction that followed anything else than him groveling in front of the officer).

I find it quite odd. I mean in Europe there's obviously some level of respect for the police, but nowhere near the sheer abjection that seems to be expected in the US.

[KoolBak]

Well....perhaps it's that they put their asses so much more on the line? Remember, we're just a country full of drunken stupid gun-toters (well, excluding the tofu-eaters and Birkenstock wearers...lol)), so every day becomes a lottery on getting shot for a cop. Endows them with a higher sense of worth perhaps?

Been busted for things my fair share, but I have certainly been extremely thankful more than once to have a cop show up and help me out

I'll "Yessir" and "Nosir" all day long

[betiko]

American cops are cock suckers. Stupid, agressive, have over reactions and no human interaction skills. Seriously, was this man a threat?? Couldn t they just go like
"sir step out of the perimeter and stop filming, this is a sensitive situation" and let him go?
The dog was then barking in the car "sir you need to make your dog calm down"
Then the dog jumps out and barks at them. They start acting agressive towards the dog and the owner like the huge cocks they are. They could ve asked again the owner to take care of him.
As far as i know the man was just fooling around and was as pacifist as you can be. Couldn t they trust him for 30s and let him take care of the dog? Did they need to cuff him?
"Land of freedom", so ironic to call yourselves that way. Never seen as much repression as in your country, freakin 1984.

[saxitoxin]

He didn't look threatening to me. The dog, yes. The man ,no.

In a vacuum I'd agree the man didn't look threatening.

In the totality of the situation - an evolving scene where armed men have barricaded themselves inside a home and one or more have slipped out and are fanning through the neighborhood with no description as to what they look like, an unknown man suddenly appears, crosses the police line, starts ducking in and out around unattended police cars, and repeatedly and slowly driving by in his car - it could reasonably seem the man was scouting the police positions.

In that situation, a Terry Stop - restraint, demand for identification, pat-down for weapons and release - seems justified to me.

IIRC half of police killed in the U.S. are shot in recon/ambush attacks (I read this the other year, I'll have to look it up) and, the morning the dog shooting happened, just down the street, two LAPD detectives were stalked, ambushed and shot in Willowbrook.

• edit - http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nat ... 52147034/1

[thegreekdog]

I don't know enough about the context of the video to determine whether the arrest was warranted. Seems like the arrestee was prepared to be cuffed, so perhaps he knows more than us. As for the dog, unfortunate but appeared necessary (without knowing anything more).

And in the interest of full disclosure, I generally have some distaste for police officers, but only those who operate within the boundaries of suburbs or in the country. I have a large amount of guarded respect for city police officers (like those in this video).

[KoolBak]

Yo Bet....USA is the most repressed population in the world? Wow....Thanks for opening my eyes!!

[Haggis_McMutton]

Well....perhaps it's that they put their asses so much more on the line? Remember, we're just a country full of drunken stupid gun-toters (well, excluding the tofu-eaters and Birkenstock wearers...lol)), so every day becomes a lottery on getting shot for a cop. Endows them with a higher sense of worth perhaps?

Been busted for things my fair share, but I have certainly been extremely thankful more than once to have a cop show up and help me out :lol:

I'll "Yessir" and "Nosir" all day long ;)

Yeah, you may be right.
Maybe cops in the US are exposed to more ugly shit what with the higher incarceration and violent crime rate and so they get more jaded.

[jonesthecurl]

I'm not hostile to cops as such. My Dad was one, in the docks in London, and was retired when I was about 15 due to injuries from the job, so I know they face tough situations all day.

It does seem to me that in this case they should have made sure the dog was secured before cuffing his owner. It didn't seem like an aggressive dog before it saw the guy in trouble.

Once the dog attacked, it may have been a bad call to shoot it, but it was certainly understandable.

Having seen the dog before that, though it would seem sensible to make sure it was secured in the car.

[betiko]

I'm not hostile to cops as such. My Dad was one, in the docks in London, and was retired when I was about 15 due to injuries from the job, so I know they face tough situations all day.

It does seem to me that in this case they should have made sure the dog was secured before cuffing his owner. It didn't seem like an aggressive dog before it saw the guy in trouble.

Once the dog attacked, it may have been a bad call to shoot it, but it was certainly understandable.

Having seen the dog before that, though it would seem sensible to make sure it was secured in the car.

Totally agree with this.

And yes, about american cops i mean it. You get arrested for any stupid thing, and no matter how stupid, you need to talk to them as if you were a tiny piece of shit begging to get your life spared. Usa has 5% of the world population and 25% of world s incarcerated population. So yes, it s a very very repressive country and i felt nothing close to free there. That s not the type of relations you re supposed to have with people who "protect & serve".

[saxitoxin]

You get arrested for any stupid thing

I have lived in the United States for 23 years and have never been arrested. You can't compare how fast U.S. police resort to weapons to a country like Italy where cops will beat you to within an inch of your life if you look at them funny.

This is a full and accurate record of every contact I've had with a U.S. police officer, other than at border crossings:

• - I was stopped two times for speeding and given one ticket and one verbal warning (x2 by California Highway Patrol).
  - Once, while walking on a sidewalk, a deputy sheriff in a car pulled alongside me and asked if I'd seen or heard any loud noises in the area. He drove on after I said no (x1 Santa Barbara Sheriff).
  - I called the police once after I walked around a corner just after a woman had - according to her - been assaulted by her boyfriend in the Flatiron District of NYC (x1 New York Police).
  - I twice voluntarily went to a law enforcement office, once to apply for a license for a thing for which I needed a license and once to provide information on a serious crime I knew was about to occur (x1 Santa Barbara Sheriff, x1 Canadian National Railway Police).
  - I once yelled several insults at the Sheriff of Santa Barbara County, Bill Brown, as he was riding around on his horse like he owned the town (basically, I was saying stuff like his mustache made him look like a 70s porn star, etc. - this is a photo I found after Googling "Bill Brown + Horse" so you can see what he looks like and how my comments were justified). He ignored me and rode on. (x 1 Santa Barbara Sheriff).

Of those seven interactions, I would characterize three as pleasant/courteous, three as neutral/ambivalent and one as rude.

I have also been stopped twice for speeding in Canada by the RCMP and, overall, I would say they were friendlier than the California Highway Patrol.

[notyou2]

You get arrested for any stupid thing

I have lived in the United States for 23 years and have never been arrested. This is a full and accurate record of every contact I've had with a police officer, other than at border crossings:

• - I was stopped two times for speeding and given one ticket and one verbal warning (x2 by California Highway Patrol).
  - Once, while walking on a sidewalk, a deputy sheriff in a car pulled alongside me and asked if I'd seen or heard any loud noises in the area. He drove on after I said no (x1 Santa Barbara Sheriff).
  - I called the police once after I walked around a corner just after a woman had - according to her - been assaulted by her boyfriend in the Flatiron District of NYC (x1 New York Police).
  - I twice voluntarily went to a law enforcement office, once to apply for a license for a thing for which I needed a license and once to provide information on a serious crime I knew was about to occur (x1 Santa Barbara Sheriff, x1 Canadian National Railway Police).
  - I once yelled several insults at the Sheriff of Santa Barbara County, Bill Brown, as he was riding around on his horse like he owned the town (basically, I was saying stuff like his mustache made him look like a 70s porn star, etc. - this is a photo I found after Googling "Bill Brown + Horse" so you can see what he looks like and how my comments were justified). He ignored me and rode on. (x 1 Santa Barbara Sheriff).

Of those seven interactions, I would characterize three as pleasant/courteous, three as neutral/ambivalent and one as rude.

I have also been stopped twice for speeding in Canada by the RCMP and, overall, I would say they were friendlier than the California Highway Patrol, though not as efficient as it took forever for them to finish up and let me go whereas the CHP took all of maybe 5 minutes.

No East German Stasi interactions?

[saxitoxin]

You get arrested for any stupid thing

I have lived in the United States for 23 years and have never been arrested. This is a full and accurate record of every contact I've had with a police officer, other than at border crossings:

• - I was stopped two times for speeding and given one ticket and one verbal warning (x2 by California Highway Patrol).
  - Once, while walking on a sidewalk, a deputy sheriff in a car pulled alongside me and asked if I'd seen or heard any loud noises in the area. He drove on after I said no (x1 Santa Barbara Sheriff).
  - I called the police once after I walked around a corner just after a woman had - according to her - been assaulted by her boyfriend in the Flatiron District of NYC (x1 New York Police).
  - I twice voluntarily went to a law enforcement office, once to apply for a license for a thing for which I needed a license and once to provide information on a serious crime I knew was about to occur (x1 Santa Barbara Sheriff, x1 Canadian National Railway Police).
  - I once yelled several insults at the Sheriff of Santa Barbara County, Bill Brown, as he was riding around on his horse like he owned the town (basically, I was saying stuff like his mustache made him look like a 70s porn star, etc. - this is a photo I found after Googling "Bill Brown + Horse" so you can see what he looks like and how my comments were justified). He ignored me and rode on. (x 1 Santa Barbara Sheriff).

Of those seven interactions, I would characterize three as pleasant/courteous, three as neutral/ambivalent and one as rude.

I have also been stopped twice for speeding in Canada by the RCMP and, overall, I would say they were friendlier than the California Highway Patrol, though not as efficient as it took forever for them to finish up and let me go whereas the CHP took all of maybe 5 minutes.

No East German Stasi interactions?

1. No / 2. I edited my post to say it's thorough only as to my interactions with USA police / 3. SORZ FOR CONFUSION!

[notyou2]

You get arrested for any stupid thing

I have lived in the United States for 23 years and have never been arrested. This is a full and accurate record of every contact I've had with a police officer, other than at border crossings:

• - I was stopped two times for speeding and given one ticket and one verbal warning (x2 by California Highway Patrol).
  - Once, while walking on a sidewalk, a deputy sheriff in a car pulled alongside me and asked if I'd seen or heard any loud noises in the area. He drove on after I said no (x1 Santa Barbara Sheriff).
  - I called the police once after I walked around a corner just after a woman had - according to her - been assaulted by her boyfriend in the Flatiron District of NYC (x1 New York Police).
  - I twice voluntarily went to a law enforcement office, once to apply for a license for a thing for which I needed a license and once to provide information on a serious crime I knew was about to occur (x1 Santa Barbara Sheriff, x1 Canadian National Railway Police).
  - I once yelled several insults at the Sheriff of Santa Barbara County, Bill Brown, as he was riding around on his horse like he owned the town (basically, I was saying stuff like his mustache made him look like a 70s porn star, etc. - this is a photo I found after Googling "Bill Brown + Horse" so you can see what he looks like and how my comments were justified). He ignored me and rode on. (x 1 Santa Barbara Sheriff).

Of those seven interactions, I would characterize three as pleasant/courteous, three as neutral/ambivalent and one as rude.

I have also been stopped twice for speeding in Canada by the RCMP and, overall, I would say they were friendlier than the California Highway Patrol, though not as efficient as it took forever for them to finish up and let me go whereas the CHP took all of maybe 5 minutes.

No East German Stasi interactions?

1. No / 2. I edited my post to say it's thorough only as to my interactions with USA police / 3. SORZ FOR CONFUSION!

Did the CN police catch you for trespassing, and was it in Moncton?

[saxitoxin]

You get arrested for any stupid thing

I have lived in the United States for 23 years and have never been arrested. This is a full and accurate record of every contact I've had with a police officer, other than at border crossings:

• - I was stopped two times for speeding and given one ticket and one verbal warning (x2 by California Highway Patrol).
  - Once, while walking on a sidewalk, a deputy sheriff in a car pulled alongside me and asked if I'd seen or heard any loud noises in the area. He drove on after I said no (x1 Santa Barbara Sheriff).
  - I called the police once after I walked around a corner just after a woman had - according to her - been assaulted by her boyfriend in the Flatiron District of NYC (x1 New York Police).
  - I twice voluntarily went to a law enforcement office, once to apply for a license for a thing for which I needed a license and once to provide information on a serious crime I knew was about to occur (x1 Santa Barbara Sheriff, x1 Canadian National Railway Police).
  - I once yelled several insults at the Sheriff of Santa Barbara County, Bill Brown, as he was riding around on his horse like he owned the town (basically, I was saying stuff like his mustache made him look like a 70s porn star, etc. - this is a photo I found after Googling "Bill Brown + Horse" so you can see what he looks like and how my comments were justified). He ignored me and rode on. (x 1 Santa Barbara Sheriff).

Of those seven interactions, I would characterize three as pleasant/courteous, three as neutral/ambivalent and one as rude.

I have also been stopped twice for speeding in Canada by the RCMP and, overall, I would say they were friendlier than the California Highway Patrol, though not as efficient as it took forever for them to finish up and let me go whereas the CHP took all of maybe 5 minutes.

No East German Stasi interactions?

1. No / 2. I edited my post to say it's thorough only as to my interactions with USA police / 3. SORZ FOR CONFUSION!

Did the CN police catch you for trespassing, and was it in Moncton?

I said I voluntarily went to the CN police office. And, no, it was not in Moncton. It was the CN Police station in Chicago.

[notyou2]

You get arrested for any stupid thing

I have lived in the United States for 23 years and have never been arrested. This is a full and accurate record of every contact I've had with a police officer, other than at border crossings:

• - I was stopped two times for speeding and given one ticket and one verbal warning (x2 by California Highway Patrol).
  - Once, while walking on a sidewalk, a deputy sheriff in a car pulled alongside me and asked if I'd seen or heard any loud noises in the area. He drove on after I said no (x1 Santa Barbara Sheriff).
  - I called the police once after I walked around a corner just after a woman had - according to her - been assaulted by her boyfriend in the Flatiron District of NYC (x1 New York Police).
  - I twice voluntarily went to a law enforcement office, once to apply for a license for a thing for which I needed a license and once to provide information on a serious crime I knew was about to occur (x1 Santa Barbara Sheriff, x1 Canadian National Railway Police).
  - I once yelled several insults at the Sheriff of Santa Barbara County, Bill Brown, as he was riding around on his horse like he owned the town (basically, I was saying stuff like his mustache made him look like a 70s porn star, etc. - this is a photo I found after Googling "Bill Brown + Horse" so you can see what he looks like and how my comments were justified). He ignored me and rode on. (x 1 Santa Barbara Sheriff).

Of those seven interactions, I would characterize three as pleasant/courteous, three as neutral/ambivalent and one as rude.

I have also been stopped twice for speeding in Canada by the RCMP and, overall, I would say they were friendlier than the California Highway Patrol, though not as efficient as it took forever for them to finish up and let me go whereas the CHP took all of maybe 5 minutes.

No East German Stasi interactions?

1. No / 2. I edited my post to say it's thorough only as to my interactions with USA police / 3. SORZ FOR CONFUSION!

Did the CN police catch you for trespassing, and was it in Moncton?

I said I voluntarily went to the CN police office. And, no, it was not in Moncton. It was the CN Police station in Chicago.

Apparently what I wrote about you in another forum was inaccurate. I'll go fix it.

[chang50]

Well....perhaps it's that they put their asses so much more on the line? Remember, we're just a country full of drunken stupid gun-toters (well, excluding the tofu-eaters and Birkenstock wearers...lol)), so every day becomes a lottery on getting shot for a cop. Endows them with a higher sense of worth perhaps?

Been busted for things my fair share, but I have certainly been extremely thankful more than once to have a cop show up and help me out

I'll "Yessir" and "Nosir" all day long

Yeah, you may be right.
Maybe cops in the US are exposed to more ugly shit what with the higher incarceration and violent crime rate and so they get more jaded.

Yes and the elephant in the room once again is the absurdly high levels of gun ownership in the US.That is why the cops are exposed to so much ugly shit and respond so shockingly to European eyes like Betiko's.It is also what makes the title 'Land of the Free' little more than a joke,all the sadder because so many appear to believe it.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

What do you guys think? Was this self-defense or a cop going out of boundary?

I've never been a fan of cops. They were not justified in doing the Terry stop on the owner imo. However, I believe he was justified in killing the dog. The owner was irresponsible for not securing the animal, and it was obviously a large dog with the potential to cause some harm.

-TG

problem is, usually aggressive dogs immediately attack. This one didn't, which means the shooting was unnecessary. This wasn't an aggessive dog. However the police officer clearly didn't know how to treat dogs. Nearing the dog and especially suddenly stretching your are from above towards the dog is a sign of aggressiveness, or at least from the dog's perspective. Everybody who knows a bit about dog psychology knows this. This police officer was poorly trained imo. He did everything to provoke the dog.

Additionally why did he have to shoot the dog mutliple times? The dog was clearly scared even though he wanted his owner back. Just shooting once in the air would've been enough to scare him. And if you have to shoot him, why shoot him multiple times? Why not just shoot him once? Shooting multiple times shows me that the officer shot him not to wound him, but with the aim to kill him.

And as jonesthecurl mentioned, they should've let the owner go for a few minutes to put his dog back in the car, which was clearly his intention in the first place as he put him there before he got cuffed.

So all in all I think this shows the unprofessionalism of these police officers. The police should know how to act near animals. There are too many people owning dogs to not know a basic about dog behaviour.

Rotts especially are very protective of their owners and very strong. I grew up with and raised quite a few Rotties. The dog didn't attack immediately because there was too much noise and confusion around and it didn't readily sense danger until they began hauling off the owner.

And you're missing the point. In no way should the police officer, or any person for that matter, have to worry about provoking the dog. If you own an animal capable of ripping somebody's throat out, it's your responsibility to make sure the animal is controlled in all situations (very much like owning a firearm). Shooting it once is likely just to piss it off, btw, depending on where you hit it.

Sure, it could have been handled better. I have extensive experience in animal handling, and I believe I could take down a dog without lethal force if I had to. But that's still a giant risk. Dogs have quick reflexes and when they attack they go for the deadly spots like the throat.

-TG

[laughingcavalier]

So the consensus seems to be a regrettable but probably unavoidable action within the context of a brutally repressive police state.

[saxitoxin]

within the context of a brutally repressive police state

That seems to be an embellishment. I mean we're talking about the local coppers shooting a dog in gross, white trash Hawthorne, California. It's not like this is a thread about RUC/PSNI death squads in the four occupied counties of Ulster.

[waauw]

What do you guys think? Was this self-defense or a cop going out of boundary?

I've never been a fan of cops. They were not justified in doing the Terry stop on the owner imo. However, I believe he was justified in killing the dog. The owner was irresponsible for not securing the animal, and it was obviously a large dog with the potential to cause some harm.

-TG

problem is, usually aggressive dogs immediately attack. This one didn't, which means the shooting was unnecessary. This wasn't an aggessive dog. However the police officer clearly didn't know how to treat dogs. Nearing the dog and especially suddenly stretching your are from above towards the dog is a sign of aggressiveness, or at least from the dog's perspective. Everybody who knows a bit about dog psychology knows this. This police officer was poorly trained imo. He did everything to provoke the dog.

Additionally why did he have to shoot the dog mutliple times? The dog was clearly scared even though he wanted his owner back. Just shooting once in the air would've been enough to scare him. And if you have to shoot him, why shoot him multiple times? Why not just shoot him once? Shooting multiple times shows me that the officer shot him not to wound him, but with the aim to kill him.

And as jonesthecurl mentioned, they should've let the owner go for a few minutes to put his dog back in the car, which was clearly his intention in the first place as he put him there before he got cuffed.

So all in all I think this shows the unprofessionalism of these police officers. The police should know how to act near animals. There are too many people owning dogs to not know a basic about dog behaviour.

Rotts especially are very protective of their owners and very strong. I grew up with and raised quite a few Rotties. The dog didn't attack immediately because there was too much noise and confusion around and it didn't readily sense danger until they began hauling off the owner.

And you're missing the point. In no way should the police officer, or any person for that matter, have to worry about provoking the dog. If you own an animal capable of ripping somebody's throat out, it's your responsibility to make sure the animal is controlled in all situations (very much like owning a firearm). Shooting it once is likely just to piss it off, btw, depending on where you hit it.

Sure, it could have been handled better. I have extensive experience in animal handling, and I believe I could take down a dog without lethal force if I had to. But that's still a giant risk. Dogs have quick reflexes and when they attack they go for the deadly spots like the throat.

-TG

Rottweilers in general might be dangerous but this one at a certain point just stopped to sniffle the ground, while standing right next to the officers. An aggressive dog doesn't do that. And I'm not talking about taking the animal out with brutal force. Just let the guy safely put his dog away. That takes what, 1 minute? This dog would've probably even been tempted to go after a piece of food if you look at it's behaviour.

All I'm saying is that police officers should be trained to at least know a basics of how to behave around animals, especially those as common as dogs.

[Woodruff]

So the consensus seems to be a regrettable but probably unavoidable action within the context of a brutally repressive police state.

I don't think that's quite right, no.