Logic dictates that there is a God!

[Pilate]

Actually, they only noticed the "prediction" AFTER Jesus died. They went back and re-interpreted the scriptures. Can it be a true prediction if they only noticed it after the event occured?

???? How can they "note" a fulfillment of a prediction BEFORE it happens?

They didn't even know what the prediction was, or even if there was a prediction before it happened.

How do you know?

That's what religious scholars (the unbiased, non-theological ones) have found.

Also, there's a reason why Jews don't recognize Jesus as the messiah. If the prediction was so obvious, they probably would have noted it.

Jesus being rejected by his own people (Jews) is yet another fufilled prophecy.

Or something made up by christians
It's weird how jesus never talks about the major issues facing christianity today. abortion, evolution, gay marriage. You'd think his "followers" would focus on HIS message, not what other people CLAIM he says

Its in the Bible, written before Jesus was born.

The Bible addresses all those issues....

"If a man strikes a pregnant woman and the child dies, take life for life" (paraphrased)

"In the begining God created..... man, creatures on the earth.... and they reproduced each after its own kind"


"(within a list of others) homosexuals will not inherit the kindom of God" 1COR 6:9

1Cor in by paul, not Jesus, like i said before. The sabbath law was written before Jesus, but that didn't stop him from criticizing it. I think you proved my point lolo

[jay_a2j]

Actually, they only noticed the "prediction" AFTER Jesus died. They went back and re-interpreted the scriptures. Can it be a true prediction if they only noticed it after the event occured?

???? How can they "note" a fulfillment of a prediction BEFORE it happens?

They didn't even know what the prediction was, or even if there was a prediction before it happened.

How do you know?

That's what religious scholars (the unbiased, non-theological ones) have found.

Also, there's a reason why Jews don't recognize Jesus as the messiah. If the prediction was so obvious, they probably would have noted it.

Jesus being rejected by his own people (Jews) is yet another fufilled prophecy.

Or something made up by christians
It's weird how jesus never talks about the major issues facing christianity today. abortion, evolution, gay marriage. You'd think his "followers" would focus on HIS message, not what other people CLAIM he says

Its in the Bible, written before Jesus was born.

The Bible addresses all those issues....

"If a man strikes a pregnant woman and the child dies, take life for life" (paraphrased)

"In the begining God created..... man, creatures on the earth.... and they reproduced each after its own kind"


"(within a list of others) homosexuals will not inherit the kindom of God" 1COR 6:9

1Cor in by paul, not Jesus, like i said before. The sabbath law was written before Jesus, but that didn't stop him from criticizing it. I think you proved my point lolo

Lets see if we can make the connection.


"In the begining was the Word, and the Word was God" (The Word existed before it was written down) It was here from the begining.

"Let US make man in our own image" WHO was God talking too? (Jesus/HolySpirit) Jesus existed before He was born.

"Jesus said, "The father and I are one" " Here Jesus is claiming that HE is God.


Now where in scripture does Jesus critisize the OT law? Jesus came to fulfill the covenant not change it.


Now if the Word existed before Paul how is it that his writtings were his own "oppinion"?

[Pilate]

Actually, they only noticed the "prediction" AFTER Jesus died. They went back and re-interpreted the scriptures. Can it be a true prediction if they only noticed it after the event occured?

???? How can they "note" a fulfillment of a prediction BEFORE it happens?

They didn't even know what the prediction was, or even if there was a prediction before it happened.

How do you know?

That's what religious scholars (the unbiased, non-theological ones) have found.

Also, there's a reason why Jews don't recognize Jesus as the messiah. If the prediction was so obvious, they probably would have noted it.

Jesus being rejected by his own people (Jews) is yet another fufilled prophecy.

Or something made up by christians
It's weird how jesus never talks about the major issues facing christianity today. abortion, evolution, gay marriage. You'd think his "followers" would focus on HIS message, not what other people CLAIM he says

Its in the Bible, written before Jesus was born.

The Bible addresses all those issues....

"If a man strikes a pregnant woman and the child dies, take life for life" (paraphrased)

"In the begining God created..... man, creatures on the earth.... and they reproduced each after its own kind"


"(within a list of others) homosexuals will not inherit the kindom of God" 1COR 6:9

1Cor in by paul, not Jesus, like i said before. The sabbath law was written before Jesus, but that didn't stop him from criticizing it. I think you proved my point lolo

Lets see if we can make the connection.


"In the begining was the Word, and the Word was God" (The Word existed before it was written down) It was here from the begining.

"Let US make man in our own image" WHO was God talking too? (Jesus/HolySpirit) Jesus existed before He was born.

"Jesus said, "The father and I are one" " Here Jesus is claiming that HE is God.


Now where in scripture does Jesus critisize the OT law? Jesus came to fulfill the covenant not change it.


Now if the Word existed before Paul how is it that his writtings were his own "oppinion"?

Well isn't that convenient. Anything in the old testament, written by anyone or said by anyone CAN be attributed to jesus through that neat little trick of yours. History and modern faith is full of these "explanations"

[jay_a2j]

no trick, simply Gods word.

(I was never very good at tricks..... still looking for that bunny I made disappear)

[vtmarik]

You're both missing the point!

Gay Marriage isn't the hot button topic to be used to expose biblical contradiction and it's archaic-ness.

According to Exodus, you can sell children into slavery. Yet the US Government passed a law saying slavery is illegal. The Bible also tells us that a person was stoned for wearing cloth made from two different threads. I'm wearing a cotton-poly blend right now. Who's up first?

The Ten Commandments, as another example, don't belong anywhere other then Church. Why? Because many of them aren't laws:

"Honor thy Father," not a law
"Keep holy the Sabbath," not a law
"Don't worship statues," not a law
"Don't worship any other Gods before me."

That last one is interesting. The US Constitution says that we can worship whatever we want as long as we don't infringe on anyone else's right to worship.

Does that mean that the Constitution has violated God's Law?

[reverend_kyle]

you know its funny.. in my state idaho they dont teach sex ed... yet it is in the top 5 states of teen pregnancy?

Could it be because there is nothing else to do in IDAHO?

Drugs and Sex that is all there is here...

[morph]

um jay just wondering if there was more to define it more... the whole thing saying that jesus and god are one... could it also mean that maybe they are made of the same kind of stuff like energy or something and so hence they think they are the same as they both have the same power and such but in reality they are two diff entities and so hence would be two diff gods, they just work together??


then the ten commandments... um the whole not whorshipping statues give me a sec here but in my mind somewhere when i was lil and reading the bible (before Kindergarden, so bare with me here) it was thou shall not worship false idols, or do not worship false statues of gods... somethin like that... but going by what you posted just for the hell of it

do not whorship statues, the cross in every church tends to be a big ol statue... so we would be breaking it, and the necklaces of the cross is a smaller statue of god and jesus... sooo yaa... ehm o ya

THIS THREAD SHOULD DIE EVEN IF IT IS AMUSING ME!

[jay_a2j]

um jay just wondering if there was more to define it more... the whole thing saying that jesus and god are one... could it also mean that maybe they are made of the same kind of stuff like energy or something and so hence they think they are the same as they both have the same power and such but in reality they are two diff entities and so hence would be two diff gods, they just work together??


then the ten commandments... um the whole not whorshipping statues give me a sec here but in my mind somewhere when i was lil and reading the bible (before Kindergarden, so bare with me here) it was thou shall not worship false idols, or do not worship false statues of gods... somethin like that... but going by what you posted just for the hell of it

do not whorship statues, the cross in every church tends to be a big ol statue... so we would be breaking it, and the necklaces of the cross is a smaller statue of god and jesus... sooo yaa... ehm o ya

THIS THREAD SHOULD DIE EVEN IF IT IS AMUSING ME!

Jesus stated his divinity many times. Jesus told the pharacies while walking through the temple, "Tear down this temple and in 3 days I will raise it again." Jesus was talking about himself... He would raise himself up in 3 days (Jesus rose from the dead after 3 days in the grave) Now who can raise the dead but God? Jesus also raised Lazareth from the dead. Made the blind to see and so on. Jesus also said to many people, "Your sins are forgiven, go and sin no more" Who can forgive sin but God? Even the Pharecies asked this and said Jesus was a blashemer because He proclimed to forgive sin which only God can do. (That's because Jesus is God)


As for the cross.... we christians do NOT worship the cross. It simply serves as a remider of what Christ did for us.

[jay_a2j]

You're both missing the point!

Gay Marriage isn't the hot button topic to be used to expose biblical contradiction and it's archaic-ness.

According to Exodus, you can sell children into slavery. Yet the US Government passed a law saying slavery is illegal. The Bible also tells us that a person was stoned for wearing cloth made from two different threads. I'm wearing a cotton-poly blend right now. Who's up first?

The Ten Commandments, as another example, don't belong anywhere other then Church. Why? Because many of them aren't laws:

"Honor thy Father," not a law
"Keep holy the Sabbath," not a law
"Don't worship statues," not a law
"Don't worship any other Gods before me."

That last one is interesting. The US Constitution says that we can worship whatever we want as long as we don't infringe on anyone else's right to worship.

Does that mean that the Constitution has violated God's Law?

The 10 commandments are just that... commandments.


As far as your stoneing thing. Adulterers were stoned to death back then also. Yet we do not do this today. Where is it written "God said, stone a multi-fabric wearing heathen"? Cain killed Able in the Bible too does that mean the God condones killing?


And to answer your last question yes. Man made govornments are flawed. If Jesus was running this country a few things would change. Abortion would be illegal for starters. As would gambleing. NO porn shops. You see, man has been govorning his way since sin came into the world. The day is comming when Jesus will govorn this world, and things will be different, no war, peace on earth.

[reverend_kyle]

You're both missing the point!

Gay Marriage isn't the hot button topic to be used to expose biblical contradiction and it's archaic-ness.

According to Exodus, you can sell children into slavery. Yet the US Government passed a law saying slavery is illegal. The Bible also tells us that a person was stoned for wearing cloth made from two different threads. I'm wearing a cotton-poly blend right now. Who's up first?

The Ten Commandments, as another example, don't belong anywhere other then Church. Why? Because many of them aren't laws:

"Honor thy Father," not a law
"Keep holy the Sabbath," not a law
"Don't worship statues," not a law
"Don't worship any other Gods before me."

That last one is interesting. The US Constitution says that we can worship whatever we want as long as we don't infringe on anyone else's right to worship.

Does that mean that the Constitution has violated God's Law?

The 10 commandments are just that... commandments.


As far as your stoneing thing. Adulterers were stoned to death back then also. Yet we do not do this today. Where is it written "God said, stone a multi-fabric wearing heathen"? Cain killed Able in the Bible too does that mean the God condones killing?


And to answer your last question yes. Man made govornments are flawed. If Jesus was running this country a few things would change. Abortion would be illegal for starters. As would gambleing. NO porn shops. You see, man has been govorning his way since sin came into the world. The day is comming when Jesus will govorn this world, and things will be different, no war, peace on earth.

Last time religion and politics mixed people were burned at the stake...

[heavycola]

The 10 commandments are just that... commandments.

The orders direct from god are just that... orders direct from god

In Judges god forces the israelites into slavery. or does that not count either? Easy to cherrypick what you want from the bible.

If Jesus was running this country a few things would change. Abortion would be illegal for starters. As would gambleing. NO porn shops

THIS is what really pisses me off. It's what is wrong with mixing religion and politics. Announcing that your own moral code is absolutely right because it's what jesus would do. Bollocks. You have no idea. Where did he say porn is bad? or gambling? Eveyrone who puts £10 on a horse is evil? Absolutely ridiculous and arrogant beyuond belief.

[reverend_kyle]

The 10 commandments are just that... commandments.

The orders direct from god are just that... orders direct from god

In Judges god forces the israelites into slavery. or does that not count either? Easy to cherrypick what you want from the bible.

If Jesus was running this country a few things would change. Abortion would be illegal for starters. As would gambleing. NO porn shops

THIS is what really pisses me off. It's what is wrong with mixing religion and politics. Announcing that your own moral code is absolutely right because it's what jesus would do. Bollocks. You have no idea. Where did he say porn is bad? or gambling? Eveyrone who puts £10 on a horse is evil? Absolutely ridiculous and arrogant beyuond belief.

BOLLOCKS!

I love that phrase.. .are you from the UK

[jay_a2j]

In Judges god forces the israelites into slavery. or does that not count either? Easy to cherrypick what you want from the bible.

Please give chapter and verse. I don't remember God "forcing" anybody to do anything cause that would contradict free will.

[Jolly Roger]

to answer your last question yes. Man made govornments are flawed. If Jesus was running this country a few things would change. Abortion would be illegal for starters. As would gambleing. NO porn shops. You see, man has been govorning his way since sin came into the world. The day is comming when Jesus will govorn this world, and things will be different, no war, peace on earth.

you think that the guy that was always on about non-violence, forgiveness and helping the poor would arrive in the richest, most heavily-armed country in the world and get straight to work on porn shops?

[Pilate]

to answer your last question yes. Man made govornments are flawed. If Jesus was running this country a few things would change. Abortion would be illegal for starters. As would gambleing. NO porn shops. You see, man has been govorning his way since sin came into the world. The day is comming when Jesus will govorn this world, and things will be different, no war, peace on earth.

you think that the guy that was always on about non-violence, forgiveness and helping the poor would arrive in the richest, most heavily-armed country in the world and get straight to work on porn shops?

It's weird how people repeatly say that humans are flawed, god is not, jesus is not, yet never admit to their own mistakes until it is painfully too late, and often not even then

[jay_a2j]

Where did he say porn is bad? or gambling? Eveyrone who puts £10 on a horse is evil? Absolutely ridiculous and arrogant beyuond belief.

You have to be kidding right? No, they are not "evil". Sin is sin. The person who puts $10 on a horse is no better or worse then a person who shoplifts a candybar. It is simply sin. What separates us from god? You guessed it... sin.

The Bible doesn't mention "porn shops". It does however, mention the sexually immoral.

[morph]

please do put down what it says when it talks about sexually immoral things, like the verse and such... i want to read this... because i never remember it mentioning porn... self gratification... maybe homosexuality, but not self gratification...

ok, sex before marriage is a sin?? think that is what they say, yet most bible thumpers and i mean no offense when i call someone a bible thumper unless i call someone a stupid bible thumper.. but abortion is bad... but what happens when a rapist commits rape to a women, there is no marriage, if that women is married it goes under adultry... and its against her will to have the child but by church law she must... now thats against her free will, god dosnt infringe on free will... but thats just what these rules are, you must do these things in order to go to heaven, there is no other way, you must give up free will bascially to get into heaven... and if your god fearing, personally im not, but if you are then well you really have no free will... i mean to people who are bible thumpers there is no other choice but to follow the bible and so therefore no real free will choice to do anything...

[jay_a2j]

please do put down what it says when it talks about sexually immoral things, like the verse and such... i want to read this... because i never remember it mentioning porn... self gratification... maybe homosexuality, but not self gratification...

ok, sex before marriage is a sin?? think that is what they say, yet most bible thumpers and i mean no offense when i call someone a bible thumper unless i call someone a stupid bible thumper.. but abortion is bad... but what happens when a rapist commits rape to a women, there is no marriage, if that women is married it goes under adultry... and its against her will to have the child but by church law she must... now thats against her free will, god dosnt infringe on free will... but thats just what these rules are, you must do these things in order to go to heaven, there is no other way, you must give up free will bascially to get into heaven... and if your god fearing, personally im not, but if you are then well you really have no free will... i mean to people who are bible thumpers there is no other choice but to follow the bible and so therefore no real free will choice to do anything...

Free will is us having the choice of what we do. Be it in serving God or not. Just because a person chooses to follow God does not mean they are "giving up" their free will. No one can earn Gods gift of eternal life. It is given freely. But one must be without sin. And we are all guilty of sinning (myself included). Christians are called to live a life modeled after Jesus. Jesus was without sin. We are not, unless we are forgiven. I have the same free will (or self-choice) as you. I try not to sin (but still do) because I want to please God. And although I am not perfect, I do have access to God for forgiveness of sin among other things.



The Bible does not mention porn (As there were no porn studio's in the day). And I will have to get back to you on specific verses on "sexual immorality".

[morph]

hm kay jay ill be waitin for that quote... but if we are all guilty of sin no matter what, we would never get into heaven, no one would... and as for that matter assuming we could get forgiveness and that we are worthy of it, isint that umm whats the word... its the opposite of being modest... and isint that kind of a sin? so wouldnt you be commiting a sin while trying to get all your sins forgiven...

[jay_a2j]

hm kay jay ill be waitin for that quote... but if we are all guilty of sin no matter what, we would never get into heaven, no one would... and as for that matter assuming we could get forgiveness and that we are worthy of it, isint that umm whats the word... its the opposite of being modest... and isint that kind of a sin? so wouldnt you be commiting a sin while trying to get all your sins forgiven...

You are right, none of us "deserve" Gods gift of eternal life or (Heaven). It is by His grace we must be saved and by His grace we are forgiven. But there must be repentence from sin.

[jay_a2j]

For morph verse on sexual immorality... not sure which translation this is.



1 COR 6:9-11 9Don't you know that those who do wrong will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don't fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, who are idol worshipers, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals, 10thieves, greedy people, drunkards, abusers, and swindlers--none of these will have a share in the Kingdom of God. 11There was a time when some of you were just like that, but now your sins have been washed away,[c] and you have been set apart for God. You have been made right with God because of what the Lord Jesus Christ and the Spirit of our God have done for you.

[morph]

yup see masterbation is not wrong lol yup its not a sin...

[vtmarik]

For morph verse on sexual immorality... not sure which translation this is.



1 COR 6:9-11 9Don't you know that those who do wrong will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don't fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, who are idol worshipers, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals, 10thieves, greedy people, drunkards, abusers, and swindlers--none of these will have a share in the Kingdom of God. 11There was a time when some of you were just like that, but now your sins have been washed away,[c] and you have been set apart for God. You have been made right with God because of what the Lord Jesus Christ and the Spirit of our God have done for you.

Ok, here's a related question:

Are you of the crowd that wants to put a statue or representation of the Ten Commandments in courthouses, schools, etc.?

[jay_a2j]

For morph verse on sexual immorality... not sure which translation this is.



1 COR 6:9-11 9Don't you know that those who do wrong will have no share in the Kingdom of God? Don't fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, who are idol worshipers, adulterers, male prostitutes, homosexuals, 10thieves, greedy people, drunkards, abusers, and swindlers--none of these will have a share in the Kingdom of God. 11There was a time when some of you were just like that, but now your sins have been washed away,[c] and you have been set apart for God. You have been made right with God because of what the Lord Jesus Christ and the Spirit of our God have done for you.

Ok, here's a related question:

Are you of the crowd that wants to put a statue or representation of the Ten Commandments in courthouses, schools, etc.?

I am the crowd thats wants to keep them there. It was never a question of putting them up. They have been there since this country was founded. Now, the minority of atheists in this country want them removed.



Heard an interesting thing on the radio. Why is it you can only be offended if you are in a minority? YOU can not be offended when an American flag is burned because YOU are in the majority. But, if a person burns say, a "gay pride" flag its a hate crime (because they are the minority) In other words, if you are in a minority you have the "right" not to be offended. However if you are in the majority you CAN'T be offended.

[strike wolf]

If we claim to have a seperation of church and state yet let these stay there its an embarassment to this country. An oximoron that challenges everything this country is based on. Just like the supreme court.