This why the U.S needs to get rid of guns.

[BigBallinStalin]

Quote: Legalize all drugs and make them taxable, this would fix so many problems to do with guns. End quote.

Besides Drugs (war on drugs) already being a big (huge) money maker.
Trading a gun problem (minor in comparison) for a even bigger drug problem?

What's the "even bigger drug problem?"

I suspect, although I haven't done the research, that less people are killed by drugs they aren't themselves using than people killed by guns they aren't themselves using.

Also, if you're going to respond to me, use the quote function.

Fun fact: More people overdose from legal drugs than illegal drugs!

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-07-0 ... caine.html

That's not meaningful if they don't normalize to the total availability of those drugs. Since there are a lot more prescription drugs in use than illegal drugs, that conclusion will likely not hold when we take that factor into account.

Sure, and there's problems with collecting and analyzing data on illegal drugs. Nevertheless, this still supports the claim that more people die from legal drug overdoses than illegal. Hopefully, this frames your perspective. If it were the opposite case, many would simply nod their heads and say, "well of course there's more illegal drug overdoses than legal because we have the FDA to protect and yada yada." I have yet to see enough evidence that the opposite is true--given your contention.

Yes, but you should very well know that making claims based on "X > Y" is meaningless unless X and Y are normalized to the same scale. For example, suppose I'm a public health professional and I'm trying to determine whether I should target my work to teach people how to use legal drugs responsibly, or how to use illegal drugs responsibly. The correct metric to look at is the number of overdoses per unit of the drug, because that tells you how likely a given person is to misuse the drug. Since there are also lots of public health benefits to those prescription drugs, but presumably not many associated with cocaine and heroin, it is very likely the case that you do the most good per capita by focusing on the illegal drugs.

True, unless one is concerned about total number of people dying.

Any good music come from illegal drugs? How about any other kinds of creative goods? Is marijuana a sufficient substitute for pain relief or for other symptoms? How about cocaine or heroin? How about all the other drugs which are beneficial yet are prevented from being researched? You should be skeptical about your public health argument.

[BigBallinStalin]

Often times, Prescription drugs fall under the category of illegal drug use.

Face it, Americans loves guns. We love, BIG F*CKIN GUNS!

What's your sign?

[thegreekdog]

Often times, Prescription drugs fall under the category of illegal drug use.

Face it, Americans loves guns. We love, BIG F*CKIN GUNS!

I don't love guns. To be honest, I think guns, like sports cars, are ways that some men compensate for having small penises. I suppose if they can't pleasure you with their sexual organ, they can pleasure you with their big fucking-gun.

[Metsfanmax]

Yes, but you should very well know that making claims based on "X > Y" is meaningless unless X and Y are normalized to the same scale. For example, suppose I'm a public health professional and I'm trying to determine whether I should target my work to teach people how to use legal drugs responsibly, or how to use illegal drugs responsibly. The correct metric to look at is the number of overdoses per unit of the drug, because that tells you how likely a given person is to misuse the drug. Since there are also lots of public health benefits to those prescription drugs, but presumably not many associated with cocaine and heroin, it is very likely the case that you do the most good per capita by focusing on the illegal drugs.

True, unless one is concerned about total number of people dying.

Any good music come from illegal drugs? How about any other kinds of creative goods?

The public health professional part was just a thought experiment to prove why the per-capita metric is necessary; I'm not necessarily advocating the stance I laid out above. Nevertheless, were I to defend it, I would point out that a public health professional wouldn't really be interested in whether the next Grateful Dead will come along if we legalize pot.

Is marijuana a sufficient substitute for pain relief or for other symptoms? How about cocaine or heroin? How about all the other drugs which are beneficial yet are prevented from being researched? You should be skeptical about your public health argument.

If the illegal drugs cause more deaths per capita than the legal drugs, while both have pain-relieving effects, then the only way for them to be a sufficient substitute is if the cost is low enough compared to the legalized medication to offset the increased risk of death. But if we made such a calculation in the scheme where we legalize those drugs, that calculation might completely change.

[thegreekdog]

I would point out that a public health professional wouldn't really be interested in whether the next Grateful Dead will come along if we legalize pot.

That seems like a weird conclusion. Dumbass.

[2dimes]

I would point out that a public health professional wouldn't really be interested in whether the next Grateful Dead will come along if we legalize pot.

That seems like a weird conclusion. Dumbass.

[thegreekdog]

I know a few doctors and they like them some drug-influenced music.

[BigBallinStalin]

Yes, but you should very well know that making claims based on "X > Y" is meaningless unless X and Y are normalized to the same scale. For example, suppose I'm a public health professional and I'm trying to determine whether I should target my work to teach people how to use legal drugs responsibly, or how to use illegal drugs responsibly. The correct metric to look at is the number of overdoses per unit of the drug, because that tells you how likely a given person is to misuse the drug. Since there are also lots of public health benefits to those prescription drugs, but presumably not many associated with cocaine and heroin, it is very likely the case that you do the most good per capita by focusing on the illegal drugs.

True, unless one is concerned about total number of people dying.

Any good music come from illegal drugs? How about any other kinds of creative goods?

The public health professional part was just a thought experiment to prove why the per-capita metric is necessary; I'm not necessarily advocating the stance I laid out above. Nevertheless, were I to defend it, I would point out that a public health professional wouldn't really be interested in whether the next Grateful Dead will come along if we legalize pot.

Is marijuana a sufficient substitute for pain relief or for other symptoms? How about cocaine or heroin? How about all the other drugs which are beneficial yet are prevented from being researched? You should be skeptical about your public health argument.

If the illegal drugs cause more deaths per capita than the legal drugs, while both have pain-relieving effects, then the only way for them to be a sufficient substitute is if the cost is low enough compared to the legalized medication to offset the increased risk of death. But if we made such a calculation in the scheme where we legalize those drugs, that calculation might completely change.

The per-capita point is a good one, and I agree with it given a different moral standpoint.

As for the second issue, who knows really. Pain is so subjective as well as the trade-offs of various effects, so in my opinion such decisions should ultimately be up to the consumer--preferably with advice from a professional.

[BigBallinStalin]

I would point out that a public health professional wouldn't really be interested in whether the next Grateful Dead will come along if we legalize pot.

Some might, but if so, that's why I wouldn't leave public policy health professionals. Absolute health is not optimal; there's a spectrum of healthiness--each with its different return.

[Metsfanmax]

I would point out that a public health professional wouldn't really be interested in whether the next Grateful Dead will come along if we legalize pot.

Some might, but if so, that's why I wouldn't leave public policy health professionals. Absolute health is not optimal; there's a spectrum of healthiness--each with its different return.

Meh. I think the Beatles were much better before Bob Dylan introduced them to marijuana.

[nietzsche]

Often times, Prescription drugs fall under the category of illegal drug use.

Face it, Americans loves guns. We love, BIG F*CKIN GUNS!

What's your sign?

Burn Mets!

I swear it wasn't me who told BBS about your "profession".

[Gweeedo]

I don't know any Americans who don't own a gun.

Hi. I'm American and I don't own a gun. Nice to meet you.

So, your a felon.

[nietzsche]

I don't know any Americans who don't own a gun.

Hi. I'm American and I don't own a gun. Nice to meet you.

So, your a felon.

stop ruining my streak.

[thegreekdog]

I don't know any Americans who don't own a gun.

Hi. I'm American and I don't own a gun. Nice to meet you.

So, your a felon.

If you use incorrect grammar three times in a row, you can summon Symmetry.

[AslanTheKing]

and it happened again,
another university ( another school) another gunshooting and dead people
(cant compare it to syria- what is happening there is another tragedy of our sick world)

i havent been to the states for a couple of years,
i dont follow the social situation in the states, but i can compare europe vs the states,
its different here, i do have a full time job,
and if i would lose my job, i would get benefits of the states, i dont have to buy a gun if i have nothing left

your country is so beautyful, u have so much potential, so i think its not a social problem
its a human problem, where are a lot of people ( compared to 80 millions in germany)
there are far more human related problems , maybe thats the reason

there is a old joke i heard many years ago,
it goes like this

a man in new york approaches another man and says
i have lost my job
the other guy replies, so what, its not my problem

i have lost my family, my wife divorced me
the other guy replies, so what, its not my problem

i have lost my house, have no more place to sleep
the other guy replies, so what, its not my problem

i have no more money, i cant buy me any food
the other guy replies, so what, its not my problem

than the man reaches in his pocket , and takes out a gun and says
all i got is this gun



another joke which comes in my mind is from germany
a foreigner living in germany , in the building sector asks his boss for a raise,
so the boss, says, of course u get a raise, and if u want u can have my house and my wife too,
and here are my carkeys, get them as well

the worker looks surprised and says
boss, you are joking or ?

the boss replied
who is joking?

[2dimes]

i havent been to the states for a couple of years,
i dont follow the social situation in the states, but i can compare europe vs the states,
its different here, i do have a full time job,

The US&A has spent the time between WWII and 911 being the best place in the world. Move there get a job at GM and live happily ever after.

Now they are adjusting.

[chang50]

I don't know any Americans who don't own a gun.

Hi. I'm American and I don't own a gun. Nice to meet you.

So, your a felon.

If you use incorrect grammar three times in a row, you can summon Symmetry.

Can't see it improving to that extent.

[AndyDufresne]

I had a BB gun as a young one, but I only ever could use it when I went to my grandparents farm from my mother's side. I use to line up beverage cans and tin cans and shoot them off a fence.

I was playing Fallout 3 a couple of days ago, and I was running low on ammo after taking on some Fire Ants and Radscorpions, and the shop vendors hadn't yet restocked their supplies from the caravans yet. Every bullet felt like a waste, since I couldn't use it again. I remember thinking the same thing with BB gun.

This is why in most rpg or action-rpg games, I often tend toward melee focused characters who don't use up too many resources. Though in Skyrim I was a strict archer -- but I liked that around half the time or more I could re-use my arrows or find ones that were off target.

Moral of the story, I sound a bit crazy. Thanks, world.


--Andy

[mrswdk]

It's okay. I'm an in-game hoarder as well. We can face the mob together.