Scottish Independence

[mrswdk]

How do you rate Alex Salmon's desire to move out of his parents' house? What would you like to see happen?

*This thread has been awarded the PS Certificate of Academic Substance. NO DERAILING.*

[AndyDufresne]

How do you rate Alex Salmon's desire to move out of his parents' house? What would you like to see happen?

*This thread has been awarded the PS Certificate of Academic Substance. NO DERAILING.*

I declare the PS Certificate of Academic Substance VOID, due to a poll including kittens.




--Andy

[notyou2]

PS does not practice what he preaches. He has been derailing threads for as long as I have been a forum goer.

As for OP, I vote "Aye" now that we have our stone back. English overlord bastards!!!!

[saxitoxin]

I don't know a thing about Scotland other than they're either known for golf or badminton, I can't recall which. So could care less. However, based on the division of military property (http://www.rusi.org/news/ref:N507BDE949 ... v0o6fldUrU) that would go to a neutral Scotland, it seems a vote for independence would be a major step in forcing a peaceful and negotiated resolution of the South Atlantic and Gibraltar issues. So, in the words of Nino Bravo, I say ...



When is the vote anyway, mrswdk?

[betiko]

they have their own football league, football and rugby team. and they are allowed to deep fry everything. why should they be independant?

[mrswdk]

How do you rate Alex Salmon's desire to move out of his parents' house? What would you like to see happen?

*This thread has been awarded the PS Certificate of Academic Substance. NO DERAILING.*

I declare the PS Certificate of Academic Substance VOID, due to a poll including kittens.




--Andy

Reported for flaming and bigotry.

[mrswdk]

What's more: would the break up of the UK set a precedent, leading to Catalonia breaking from Spain, Belgium splitting in two, Germany fragmenting into the old Germanic states, every rich person in France declaring their own low-tax principality etc., and before you know it everyone has been invaded by Russia?

[Dukasaur]

What's more: would the break up of the UK set a precedent, leading to Catalonia breaking from Spain, Belgium splitting in two, Germany fragmenting into the old Germanic states, every rich person in France declaring their own low-tax principality etc., and before you know it everyone has been invaded by Russia?

Well, that's always been one of the fears of governments, that if one unit here is allowed to secede, then another unit there will be allowed to.

In fact, I don't think it makes much difference. The breakup of Yugoslavia and the Soviet Union wasn't immediately followed by the breakup of China or India. British Guyana's independence from Britain didn't create any great movement for French Guyana to seek independence from France. The recent independence of South Sudan didn't strengthen the hand of other independence movements in Africa.

Really, independence movements have always won or lost based on their own relative level of support versus the ruling power's relative level of support. Developments in other nations have some impact, but not much. Consider the very different situations of Turkish Kurds, Iranian Kurds, and Iraqi Kurds.

[chang50]

Should they be allowed to have monetary union with the rump of the UK or have to apply to the Euro,should Europe want them?

[saxitoxin]

I don't know much about Scotland other than it's where they invented badminton or golf, I think. So I don't care one way or the other. However, if an independent Scotland got a chunk of the RN and RAF in the breakup, it might encourage a more modestly armed England to enter into meaningful negotiations to resolve the Spanish claim on Gibraltar, the Argentine claim on the Malvinas, the Irish claims on Ulster, the French claims on Cornwall, the Norwegian claims on Lincolnshire, Roman Abramovich's claims on southwest London, etc.

Ultimately, I'm 85% sure everyone can probably fit into the West Midlands if you stack them two high, so there should be nothing to stop a rapid disposition of these territorial disputes.

[mrswdk]

I believe Pakistan has a claim on the West Midlands.

[betiko]

What's more: would the break up of the UK set a precedent, leading to Catalonia breaking from Spain, Belgium splitting in two, Germany fragmenting into the old Germanic states, every rich person in France declaring their own low-tax principality etc., and before you know it everyone has been invaded by Russia?

basque country splitting from france+spain; brittany from france, corsica from france and basically all our islands around the world, sardegna, sicily from italy and the north from the south... I'm not really sure that there is any independentists in germany? never heard of it.

[Gillipig]

What's more: would the break up of the UK set a precedent, leading to Catalonia breaking from Spain, Belgium splitting in two, Germany fragmenting into the old Germanic states, every rich person in France declaring their own low-tax principality etc., and before you know it everyone has been invaded by Russia?

basque country splitting from france+spain; brittany from france, corsica from france and basically all our islands around the world, sardegna, sicily from italy and the north from the south... I'm not really sure that there is any independentists in germany? never heard of it.

Spain could easily be split into Galicia, Aragon, Navarra, Leon and Castille since all of these minor nations were previously kingdoms of their own. And if we consider previous independent states, France could be split into even more countries, and Germany twice as many as France. Germany has many many minor previous monarchies that it could be split into as well but no one wants to divide Germany, you'd be more likely to see nations applying to be a part of Germany lol.

[iAmCaffeine]

All of the major government parties have agreed Scotland would not be allowed to keep the pound currency.

If they go independent the USA will claim Salmon has weapons of mass destruction and invade for the oil. Sounds fishy to me.

[betiko]

What's more: would the break up of the UK set a precedent, leading to Catalonia breaking from Spain, Belgium splitting in two, Germany fragmenting into the old Germanic states, every rich person in France declaring their own low-tax principality etc., and before you know it everyone has been invaded by Russia?

basque country splitting from france+spain; brittany from france, corsica from france and basically all our islands around the world, sardegna, sicily from italy and the north from the south... I'm not really sure that there is any independentists in germany? never heard of it.

Spain could easily be split into Galicia, Aragon, Navarra, Leon and Castille since all of these minor nations were previously kingdoms of their own. And if we consider previous independent states, France could be split into even more countries, and Germany twice as many as France. Germany has many many minor previous monarchies that it could be split into as well but no one wants to divide Germany, you'd be more likely to see nations applying to be a part of Germany lol.

no, in spain i could agree with galicia, not the rest. galicia, basque country and cataluña are the 3 regions that have a strong independant feeling. Castilla y leon and Aragon are as spanish as you can be. Navarra is often associated to the basque country though... for example in football; the athletic bilbao only accepts players born in the basque country+navarra. I guess these 2 would like to be together if they became independant. Also, there is a big part of the basque country in in france; it's about 1/3 french 2/3 spanish.
But in france, as I said the only independentists we have are the basques, the corsicans and on a lower level the bretons. then all our islands also have some sort of independant movements but that aren't that strong. The hard core independentists are corsicans, they drop bombs every now and then, they kill local politicians ect.

And regarding germany.. I'd like to hear about an expert, but I don't think there is a strong regional independentist feeling anywere right?

[Gillipig]

What's more: would the break up of the UK set a precedent, leading to Catalonia breaking from Spain, Belgium splitting in two, Germany fragmenting into the old Germanic states, every rich person in France declaring their own low-tax principality etc., and before you know it everyone has been invaded by Russia?

basque country splitting from france+spain; brittany from france, corsica from france and basically all our islands around the world, sardegna, sicily from italy and the north from the south... I'm not really sure that there is any independentists in germany? never heard of it.

Spain could easily be split into Galicia, Aragon, Navarra, Leon and Castille since all of these minor nations were previously kingdoms of their own. And if we consider previous independent states, France could be split into even more countries, and Germany twice as many as France. Germany has many many minor previous monarchies that it could be split into as well but no one wants to divide Germany, you'd be more likely to see nations applying to be a part of Germany lol.

no, in spain i could agree with galicia, not the rest. galicia, basque country and cataluña are the 3 regions that have a strong independant feeling. Castilla y leon and Aragon are as spanish as you can be. Navarra is often associated to the basque country though... for example in football; the athletic bilbao only accepts players born in the basque country+navarra. I guess these 2 would like to be together if they became independant. Also, there is a big part of the basque country in in france; it's about 1/3 french 2/3 spanish.
But in france, as I said the only independentists we have are the basques, the corsicans and on a lower level the bretons. then all our islands also have some sort of independant movements but that aren't that strong. The hard core independentists are corsicans, they drop bombs every now and then, they kill local politicians ect.

And regarding germany.. I'd like to hear about an expert, but I don't think there is a strong regional independentist feeling anywere right?

I meant "could" as in "having historical reason" I didn't say there was a push for all these former kingdoms to reappear, but you could make a valid case for either of them becoming independent based on that they used to have their own king.

[Donelladan]

Bavaria has some.
Here people may say they are bavarian instead of saying they are german.

But nobody is putting bomb anywhere, I'd say bavarian independist are probably as strong as those from brittany. They have their own political party but that is so small it's more a joke for people here.

[Serbia]

I'm surprised no one has yet made a William Wallace joke. Just don't look at me to be first to do so!

Bollocks.

[DoomYoshi]

I'm surprised no one has yet made a William Wallace joke. Just don't look at me to be first to do so!

Bollocks.

You are a William Wallace joke.

[AndyDufresne]

I'm surprised no one has yet made a William Wallace joke. Just don't look at me to be first to do so!

Bollocks.

You are a William Wallace joke.

Such a joke would be a violation of the serious discussion going on here.


--Andy

[Royal Panda]

There's no reason an independent Scotland couldn't work, but Salmond isn't the right man to lead them there. He's too much of a nationalist to see the pitfalls in front of him, and is instead ignoring the issues hoping they'll go away.

[notyou2]

I'm reading Jack Whyte's book about Robert the Bruce right now.

[Dukasaur]

I'm reading Jack Whyte's book about Robert the Bruce right now.

I'm reading your post about Jack Whyte's book about Robert the Bruce right now.

[2dimes]

I'm reading Jack Whyte's book about Robert the Bruce right now.

I'm reading your post about Jack Whyte's book about Robert the Bruce right now.

I'm hoping to read more posts about Jack Whyte's book about Robert the Bruce soon.

[BigBallinStalin]

What's more: would the break up of the UK set a precedent, leading to Catalonia breaking from Spain, Belgium splitting in two, Germany fragmenting into the old Germanic states, every rich person in France declaring their own low-tax principality etc., and before you know it everyone has been invaded by Russia?

Kinda, but I don't see why other countries should be concerned about their geopolitical/economic rivals splitting up. I don't think the Domino Effect is as strong as imagined.

RE: Germany, their recent East-West split would probably discourage people enough from splitting.

Catalonia could break from Spain, but they'd have to forego all the subsidies they get from Spain's central government. On the other hand, they can drop most of the central government's ridiculous economic policies, so it could work to Catalonia's benefit. I'd imagine the same goes for Scotland, but UK's economic policies are relatively better than Spain's, so there's that trade-off to consider.

Since I favor more political decentralization, I'd favor Scottish independence. There's definitely would be plenty of opportunities for rent-seeking from an independent Scotland, but since it's over a smaller scope, I'm not as concerned.