Congratulations people of Crimea

[mrswdk]

effective propaganda can never contain outright lies or it will be rejected by the receiver

You sure about that?

[saxitoxin]

effective propaganda can never contain outright lies or it will be rejected by the receiver

You sure about that?

totally

[DoomYoshi]

effective propaganda can never contain outright lies or it will be rejected by the receiver

You sure about that?

totally

That was pretty much the big revelation that made my adolescence differ from my adulthood. No other fundamental thoughts of mine changed.

[AndyDufresne]

Russia set a dangerous precedent using force. China just decided to bomb its own rivers to spite the ice. The end of the world is nigh.

Spoiler

--Andy

[Qwert]

its quite normal that for people from west (read US-UK-France-Germany) news from RT are filthy propaganda full of lies, and its quite normal that for people from East (read Russia, maybe China to) news from BBC-CNN are nothing else but filthy propaganda full of lies.

So what left for people in middle( like me and GoranZ)
Consider that i have experience from Western Propaganda (read bombardment of mine Country), im more keen to not trust in Western Propaganda. I dont know what GoranZ stance are , but they also had experience with Kosovo scenario(2001 albanians attemt to provoke war), and under pressure from US and EU, they make some concessions, who in future could be very bad.

Main point its that Western use power against weak countries to get what they want,,, unfortunately for them Russia are not-----Iraq-Afghanistan-LIbya-Serbia, so they can not use force.

[AndyDufresne]

Main point its that Western use power against weak countries to get what they want,,, unfortunately for them Russia are not-----Iraq-Afghanistan-LIbya-Serbia, so they can not use force.

All power countries are doing this now, Re: all powerful countries. But the West has had a headstart on those newly coming to power or once again finding their power.


--Andy

[Pope Joan]

The best way to get to the truth is to take CNN, BBC as Western side and RT as Russian side, combine the info they post and divide by 2. Its far from accurate method but its much closer and more objective.

LOL, two lefts dont make right. The only reliable news source for Ukraine is Al-Jazeera...

[thegreekdog]

The best way to get to the truth is to take CNN, BBC as Western side and RT as Russian side, combine the info they post and divide by 2. Its far from accurate method but its much closer and more objective.

LOL, two lefts dont make right. The only reliable news source for Ukraine is Al-Jazeera...

Al-Jazeera is probably the most reliable news source for most countries.

[GoranZ]

its quite normal that for people from west (read US-UK-France-Germany) news from RT are filthy propaganda full of lies, and its quite normal that for people from East (read Russia, maybe China to) news from BBC-CNN are nothing else but filthy propaganda full of lies.

So what left for people in middle( like me and GoranZ)
Consider that i have experience from Western Propaganda (read bombardment of mine Country), im more keen to not trust in Western Propaganda. I dont know what GoranZ stance are , but they also had experience with Kosovo scenario(2001 albanians attemt to provoke war), and under pressure from US and EU, they make some concessions, who in future could be very bad.

Main point its that Western use power against weak countries to get what they want,,, unfortunately for them Russia are not-----Iraq-Afghanistan-LIbya-Serbia, so they can not use force.

The main problem for the west is that now there is new player around, Russia, and they dont want to share the spoils, but starting from now they will have to.
The main question is how big will be the Russian part, actually that's the battle now, its not if Russia will take and keep Crimea or South-Eastern Ukraine but what else will Russia want to be satisfied. Primarily in 4-5 years I see large problems for Latvia and Estonia. And I see less western excursions to weaker countries, since obviously Russia will do the same, and China might follow.

The best way to get to the truth is to take CNN, BBC as Western side and RT as Russian side, combine the info they post and divide by 2. Its far from accurate method but its much closer and more objective.

LOL, two lefts dont make right. The only reliable news source for Ukraine is Al-Jazeera...

Hehehehe, you mean you want Al-Jazeera to be considered as reliable source. If you didn't knew Al-Jazeera was/is siding with Crimean Tatars(which organized protests in Crimea few weeks ago for Crimea to stay within Ukraine).

[Ray Rider]

I don't have a lot of sympathy for the West regarding the situation which has developed in Crimea for the reasons which people here have mostly already mentioned:
1. Victoria Nuland's phone call discussing the future government (and it turned out just as she called it). Someone's pulling the puppet strings.
2. The second leaked phone call which revealed the snipers had been firing on both police and protesters, pointing to someone from the new coalition as the instigator.
3. The opposition did not achieve the required parliamentary majority to legally impeach Yanukovych.
4. The new government didn't call an election after ousting Yanukovych--they passed up the opportunity to legitimize the new government across the country.
5. The new government includes extremist elements (such as Svoboda).
6. The new government's swift repeal of the Russian language law, contributing to instability in the country.

However on the other hand, I also don't have much sympathy for what Russia has been doing in Crimea for the following reasons:
1. To remove the insignia of your troops, have them wear balaclavas, and then send them to take control of areas of a sovereign country while denying involvement is just stupid and underhanded.
2. To claim "protecting Russian nationals" as the reason for invasion, especially when there was no widespread violence against the Russians, is simply Hitleresque and illegitimate.
3. To send troops in and annex an area of Ukraine is in direct contravention of the 1994 Budapest treaty.
4. The legitimacy of a vote called after an invasion and with no option to keep the status quo is simply not legitimate.
5. The referendum "results" are ridiculous and only in line with that of other dictatorships (such as North Korea's 100% or Syria's 98%) or authoritarian regimes. From The Dictator's Learning Curve: "Smarter tyrants have learned to water down such ridiculous margins."

In conclusion, I find it impossible to side solely with either the West or Russia on the situation because there seems to be much underhanded/illegitimate work going on with both sides.

In general I do feel sympathy for the Ukrainian people, although even they are to blame for being so partisan, divided, and extreme in their positions regarding their country's future rather than working together for the good of their nation. However what they can't avoid is that world powers are playing chess and their country happens to be a pawn in the game. In that I feel truly sorry for them.

[saxitoxin]

The best way to get to the truth is to take CNN, BBC as Western side and RT as Russian side, combine the info they post and divide by 2. Its far from accurate method but its much closer and more objective.

LOL, two lefts dont make right. The only reliable news source for Ukraine is Al-Jazeera...

Hehehehe, you mean you want Al-Jazeera to be considered as reliable source. If you didn't knew Al-Jazeera was/is siding with Crimean Tatars(which organized protests in Crimea few weeks ago for Crimea to stay within Ukraine).

I agree again with GoranZ. It's funny that CNN.com splashed on its front page when that low-level anchor at RT resigned, however, they never once mentioned the resignation of Ghassan bin Jiddo, who was the Al-Jazeera Beirut editor (and a former BBC journalist) and dramatically quit because of AJ's slanted coverage in the Syrian civil war to support the west, and AJ's refusal to cover the Bahrain massacre by the Saudi Israbians.

[AndyDufresne]

Articles evidently abound about Russia's neighbors being wary about large populations of ethnic Russians within their borders. Sucks to on Russia's border.


--Andy

[Symmetry]

The only thing he can do is repeat the exact same points as before except with a greater number of words, and that's just going to confuse you even more. Maybe you'd best take a quick nap and freshen up that noggin of yours beforehand.

I can use a picture

I'm not sure many people will believe that the Kremlin sponsored propaganda from RT is in any way accurate.

And the same doesn't apply for CNN or BBC? If so you should consider widening your perspectives

Usually the victorious are writing history but sometimes there is no victorious so If you take for example the Crusades you can read 2 largely different histories. The western one and Arabic one. The truth is somewhere in the middle.

I'm going to have to ask you to elaborate. What do you mean?

The elaboration: If someone is shaping his views from only one source(or sources that have mutual origin) then his opinions will be influenced by only that one source without mechanism for reducing misinformations to tolerable level. Perfect example for this are Crusader wars. Western view and Arab view about those events are different. Since I don't know the truth(nor I have a mechanism to determine the truth) I simply take the middle of both views, which is not the actual truth but its much closer to the truth then any of the views.

Picture bellow shows horse but his eyes vision is deliberately shortened so he can concentrate on the work. Relying on one source(or sources that have mutual origin) for shaping an opinion puts someone in not very different position then the horse bellow. Tho its up to someone if he/she decides to ignore everything and live in closed box.

P.S. So you wont understand me wrong I'm not saying that you are horse, nor that I was horse for considering the western view for the Crusaders as truth for long time.

Thanks for the reply, while I disagree with you, the request to elaborate was intended so that I might understand more of your thinking on the matter. The picture of a horse from "turkishtravelblog,com" has enlightened me as to your thought processes.

[Dukasaur]

That is the picture of Putin's Russia. A nation that has shed the pretty camouflage and is admitting that pillage and plunder are its highest values. The greatest pillager and plunderer of all time is still openly idolized.

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

[saxitoxin]

Here's a picture I found that was taken in Canada. It shows that people are worshipping the undead in Harper's Canada. Is Harper a Satanist? This picture proves that, yes, Harper is indeed a Prince of Hell.

[Symmetry]

Here's a picture I found that was taken in Canada. It shows that people are worshipping the undead in Harper's Canada. Is Harper a Satanist? This picture proves that, yes, Harper is indeed a Prince of Hell.

I have been in contact with the Turkisk horse, and your theory is confirmed.

[Jmac1026]

That is the picture of Putin's Russia. A nation that has shed the pretty camouflage and is admitting that pillage and plunder are its highest values. The greatest pillager and plunderer of all time is still openly idolized.

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

Is anyone really surprised?

[saxitoxin]

Here's a picture I found that was taken in Canada. It shows that people are worshipping the undead in Harper's Canada. Is Harper a Satanist? This picture proves that, yes, Harper is indeed a Prince of Hell.

I have been in contact with the Turkisk horse, and your theory is confirmed.

lol you've been on fire lately

+1000 SxBucks

[Symmetry]

Anything less than a full follow up would have been an insult to GoranZ's intellect.

[Symmetry]

And/or his horse.

[Ray Rider]

Here's a picture I found that was taken in Canada. It shows that people are worshipping the undead in Harper's Canada. Is Harper a Satanist? This picture proves that, yes, Harper is indeed a Prince of Hell.

I have been in contact with the Turkisk horse, and your theory is confirmed.

lol you've been on fire lately

+1000 SxBucks

It made me snicker so I'll throw in an extra +250 SaxBucks.

[DoomYoshi]

Russia annexing Crimea reminds me of Germany annexing Austria.

[Ray Rider]

Russia annexing Crimea reminds me of Germany annexing Austria.

Anschluss all over again, eh?

[mrswdk]

Russia annexing Crimea reminds me of Germany annexing Austria.

Russia annexing Crimea reminds me of Russia annexing Mongolia and Tannu Tuva.

[Pope Joan]

The best way to get to the truth is to take CNN, BBC as Western side and RT as Russian side, combine the info they post and divide by 2. Its far from accurate method but its much closer and more objective.

LOL, two lefts dont make right. The only reliable news source for Ukraine is Al-Jazeera...

Hehehehe, you mean you want Al-Jazeera to be considered as reliable source. If you didn't knew Al-Jazeera was/is siding with Crimean Tatars(which organized protests in Crimea few weeks ago for Crimea to stay within Ukraine).

I agree again with GoranZ. It's funny that CNN.com splashed on its front page when that low-level anchor at RT resigned, however, they never once mentioned the resignation of Ghassan bin Jiddo, who was the Al-Jazeera Beirut editor (and a former BBC journalist) and dramatically quit because of AJ's slanted coverage in the Syrian civil war to support the west, and AJ's refusal to cover the Bahrain massacre by the Saudi Israbians.

That is not what GoranZ said. Al-Jazeera's coverage of Middle East is seriously warped and untrustworthy. But it does an excellent job covering objectively what happens in the west (Europe+Americas). In particular, their coverage of Crimea is factual and objective. Crimean tatars are not the focus of their coverage...