the IRA

[RobinJ]

Allright, this post isnt meant to be pro-IRA but they actually do have a cause to be doing this. its called British Imperialism. you brits who are saying that they are cowards are the ones who oppresed Ireland for so long. In that rule your people killed, raped inocent people and did many other things to piss the Irish off and the IRA was what came of it. so maybe you guys are the cowards.

and just a note. i wasnt being pro-IRA in creating this thread. i just, like Iz said, trying to learn more about them. maybe you should read the firs page or two before you go around making idiotic assumptions.

That happened almost 90 years ago and they got ROI out of it. Since then, they have done nothing good for anybody. Besides, their first act (although perhaps not under the IRA name (IVF maybe)) was to stage a rising half-way through WWI - talk about backstabbing. What was worse was the fact that they did it when a lot of Irish were actually fighting in the war. Anyway, yes, perhaps the British deserved what they got in 1921 but, since then, the IRA have been the "baddies" in this issue

[DAZMCFC]

The IRA hasn't been the same since the old leadership of Mad Dog Adair and Gusty Spence

I'm not disagreeing with anyone who posted after Kahless, but I just assumed this was an in-joke I didn't understand, what with Adair & Spence being loyalists.

Kahless' profile says he's from RoI.

EDIT: Unless Guis and Robin are talking about the original poster. I'm really confused now.

i know it says kahless is from ROI and he has a Northern Ireland fotball association badge as his avvy. he will definitly know who side who is on. i was just a bit pissed with the person who started the thread and i did read all of it.

if we started a thread about timothy Mcveigh, wanting to know all about the reasons and so on about what he did. surely we could expect to get some backlash from americans.

[Guiscard]

Allright, this post isnt meant to be pro-IRA but they actually do have a cause to be doing this. its called British Imperialism. you brits who are saying that they are cowards are the ones who oppresed Ireland for so long. In that rule your people killed, raped inocent people and did many other things to piss the Irish off and the IRA was what came of it. so maybe you guys are the cowards.

Shut the f*ck up.

There have been generations of peaceful Irish people who have tried to work out a peaceful and non-violent solution, and spouting shit like that is insulting to the memory of the countless innocent people who have died from IRA bombs. This situation was created over a century ago, and terrorists on both sides have kept the whole thing violent when a peaceful resolution could have been reached. Before you run your ignorant little mouth off, you've got to realise that most British people don't care a jot whether or not we 'keep' Northern Ireland. 'Imperialism' has not been an issue in Northern Ireland for a long time. What we don't want, however, are terrorists blowing up our shopping centres, our pubs and killing our families.

I strongly doubt you know anything about the troubles, and it is still a very raw memory for a lot of people. EVERY side has acted wrongly, but you cannot give even an inch of respect to terrorists from either side.

And Iz? This is why we came down so harshly in the first place

[Iz Man]

And Iz? This is why we came down so harshly in the first place

Understood.
At the risk of throwing this thread into a tangent, let me ask you this.
Mind you, I am in no way condoning any terrorist actions taken by the IRA, but do you think the IRA would even have existed if G.B. did not have a hold on N.I.?
That, I believe, is where some of this "glorification" we spoke of earlier comes from. There are Irish that want a unified, sovereign Ireland. One Ireland, not divided; and it happens to be G.B. that Northern Ireland currently "owes" its allegiance to. It's kind of similar to what happened in America. Just in the fact that there are those who want to secede from Britain, that's all.
Americans can relate to that, that's where hollywood steps in.

Let me add that even given this, a vast majority of Americans do not condone the actions taken by the IRA. I'm just giving my take on things, as limited as my knowledge may be on the situation.

[RobinJ]

And Iz? This is why we came down so harshly in the first place

Understood.
At the risk of throwing this thread into a tangent, let me ask you this.
Mind you, I am in no way condoning any terrorist actions taken by the IRA, but do you think the IRA would even have existed if G.B. did not have a hold on N.I.?
That, I believe, is where some of this "glorification" we spoke of earlier comes from. There are Irish that want a unified, sovereign Ireland. One Ireland, not divided; and it happens to be G.B. that Northern Ireland currently "owes" its allegiance to. It's kind of similar to what happened in America. Just in the fact that there are those who want to secede from Britain, that's all.
Americans can relate to that, that's where hollywood steps in.

Let me add that even given this, a vast majority of Americans do not condone the actions taken by the IRA. I'm just giving my take on things, as limited as my knowledge may be on the situation.

But the point was that Ulster was mostly Protestant and thus most of the people wanted to stay with in the UK. Most of the South was Catholic and most of them wanted to split away. Thus, they reached a compromise by allowing the UK to retain the 6 counties of NI. The IRA never actually had much support in NI.

However, I do realise that most Americans did not condone the IRA's behaviour. Its just that since you are such an isolationist nation, some Americans can be quite ignorant about issues from other countries such as NI.

[Guiscard]

But the point was that Ulster was mostly Protestant and thus most of the people wanted to stay with in the UK. Most of the South was Catholic and most of them wanted to split away. Thus, they reached a compromise by allowing the UK to retain the 6 counties of NI. The IRA never actually had much support in NI.

However, I do realise that most Americans did not condone the IRA's behaviour. Its just that since you are such an isolationist nation, some Americans can be quite ignorant about issues from other countries such as NI.

Yeh, this is the key point Iz.

It isn't a simple Imperialist question in the same way that it may have been a century ago when we controlled the whole of Ireland. The Protestants in Northern Ireland are just as Irish as the Catholics, but they want to stay part of Britain. For decades it has been a conflict between Irish people internally, as it were, not between Ireland and Britain. Britain retained Northern Ireland because the majority of people who live their wanted to stay with us. If the majority had wanted unity we'd have given it to them a long time ago, believe me. The problem is that there are also communities in Northern Ireland who want to be united with the South, and the conflict arises between those two groups. If the IRA had a justification it has long since been lost in the swell of violence and terrorism from either side. Northern Ireland has been trying to reach a peaceful and diplomatic solution for decades but pretty much every effort until recently has been hampered by the bombing of civilians and the murder of innocent people by terrorists on both sides.

It isn't Ireland vs Britain. It is Ireland vs Ireland.

[Iz Man]

But the point was that Ulster was mostly Protestant and thus most of the people wanted to stay with in the UK. Most of the South was Catholic and most of them wanted to split away. Thus, they reached a compromise by allowing the UK to retain the 6 counties of NI. The IRA never actually had much support in NI.

However, I do realise that most Americans did not condone the IRA's behaviour. Its just that since you are such an isolationist nation, some Americans can be quite ignorant about issues from other countries such as NI.

Yeh, this is the key point Iz.

It isn't a simple Imperialist question in the same way that it may have been a century ago when we controlled the whole of Ireland. The Protestants in Northern Ireland are just as Irish as the Catholics, but they want to stay part of Britain. For decades it has been a conflict between Irish people internally, as it were, not between Ireland and Britain. Britain retained Northern Ireland because the majority of people who live their wanted to stay with us. If the majority had wanted unity we'd have given it to them a long time ago, believe me. The problem is that there are also communities in Northern Ireland who want to be united with the South, and the conflict arises between those two groups. If the IRA had a justification it has long since been lost in the swell of violence and terrorism from either side. Northern Ireland has been trying to reach a peaceful and diplomatic solution for decades but pretty much every effort until recently has been hampered by the bombing of civilians and the murder of innocent people by terrorists on both sides.

It isn't Ireland vs Britain. It is Ireland vs Ireland.

Perfect explanations from both you and RobinJ.
I have to admit I was under the impression that it was "mostly" an Ireland vs. Britain conflict.
Thank you.

[Guiscard]

Perfect explanations from both you and RobinJ.
I have to admit I was under the impression that it was "mostly" an Ireland vs. Britain conflict.
Thank you.

Wow! The internet does work!

[Iz Man]

Perfect explanations from both you and RobinJ.
I have to admit I was under the impression that it was "mostly" an Ireland vs. Britain conflict.
Thank you.

Wow! The internet does work!

On occasion.

[Blumoki]

okay, well back on topic, sort of, has anyone read any Jack Higgins books?

Yes....Big writing and aimed at 8 year olds

[Blumoki]

The IRA hasn't been the same since the old leadership of Mad Dog Adair and Gusty Spence

mad dog is a proddy. as a british protestant myself, i find this highly offensive talking about a known international terrorist group that has killed many a innocent people. i am not saying the loyalist parlamilitaries has not committed attrocities, far from it. but with peace at last in Northern Ireland we don`t ne this shit brought up by some retarded americans.

a hell off a lot of the problems were invested by the same kind of ignorant americans that made this fucking thread. if there was a thread glamourising al queda the mods would wipe it out straight away.

the ira are a bunch of wankers that blew up manchester, enneskillen, london, birmingham and many more places around britain.

oh and btw, don`t be bringing up bloody sunday in defence of these cowards who hide behind the innocent.

Here here,we should not condone any terrorist firm

[Kahless]

I'm getting a bit fed up with this thread, quite a lot of people have made comments, mostly ignorant. I'd just like to give my tuppenceworth.

I'm from N.Ireland, brought up in a nationalist, but not a republican background. I don't care about religion, despite my catholic upbringing, I don't care about creationist myths.

Personally, I think we're better off being part of the UK, I don't want to be part of Bertie Aherns capitalist republic, but comments made earlier about the IRA being the "baddies" made me wonder

I have sympathy for both the IRA and UVF, I don't support eithers cause, but its so easy to demonise people. Both organisations relied on disallusioned youngsters from their communities, in 70s Belfast, jobs were hard to come by, so many young people felt disillusioned, thought these private armies were their only option.

I don't agree with the bombings and shootings on either side, but I can see how the econiomic depression in N.Ireland led to those events, and I'm grateful to people like Ervine, Spence, McGuinness and Adams for having the maturity to lay down the guns and prepare to work together for a brighter future.