The Ferguson and Garner Chokehold Thingy

[DaGip]

Well, did it happen yet? They said it was supposed to have happened on Monday...it's Wednesday now...soon to be Thursday. How long does it take to make a decision? We're all anxious for some rioting where I can watch with safety from my own home...far far away. In the meantime, let's watch this video:

[notyou2]

Wow, that video is completely at odds with what Scotty said.

[WILLIAMS5232]

i thought state police had a very thorough screening process. how could this guy be let on the force? also, i read the guy fired four times but only hit once. thats fortunate for the victim, thankfully no one was pumping gas behind this incident while the officer just started wildly spraying bullets around. its a shame the officer didnt pull out his taser instead of the death ray in this instance. but it probably worked out for the better in the end. had he used the taser hed still be on the force. i read he is facing felony assault. hopefully it sticks.

[DaGip]

i thought state police had a very thorough screening process. how could this guy be let on the force? also, i read the guy fired four times but only hit once. thats fortunate for the victim, thankfully no one was pumping gas behind this incident while the officer just started wildly spraying bullets around. its a shame the officer didnt pull out his taser instead of the death ray in this instance. but it probably worked out for the better in the end. had he used the taser hed still be on the force. i read he is facing felony assault. hopefully it sticks.

Damn! He was lucky! The thing I found funny about this video is that the stupid cop tells the guy to get on the ground when he already shot him and he collapsed to the ground unable to feel his legs. "Get on the ground! Get on the Ground!" Stupid pig!

[DaGip]

Two cop cars burned to a crisp and a beauty salon on fire along with a Quizno's or something. Obama's meaningless speech did nothing.

[Phatscotty]

[Phatscotty]

Well, did it happen yet? They said it was supposed to have happened on Monday...it's Wednesday now...soon to be Thursday. How long does it take to make a decision? We're all anxious for some rioting where I can watch with safety from my own home...far far away. In the meantime, let's watch this video:

This video is specifically why I made the thread warning people when pulled over, DO NOT go back into your car to grab something! duh!

[saxitoxin]

Well, did it happen yet? They said it was supposed to have happened on Monday...it's Wednesday now...soon to be Thursday. How long does it take to make a decision? We're all anxious for some rioting where I can watch with safety from my own home...far far away. In the meantime, let's watch this video:

This video is specifically why I made the thread warning people when pulled over, DO NOT go back into your car to grab something! duh!

This was a fascinating video. I've watched that like 10 times ... on the one hand the guy makes a fast lunging movement into the car. Plus, we don't know the circumstances of the stop - maybe the car was stolen, and the cop had reason to be on edge.

On the other hand, the officer told him to get his license and should have anticipated the man might have needed to return to his vehicle to retrieve it instead of having it in his pocket. The officer should have been more clear in his directions.

The situation unfolded so rapidly that it's probably beyond expectation a human brain could process all the multiple variables with which both officer and man were dealing in the 2 seconds from start to finish. If it had been a 45 year old fat white woman or a hot 19 year old Chinese girl in a schoolgirl uniform like Mrs. WDK this wouldn't have happened, though that doesn't indicate racism as much as social conditioning.

I would want to know (a) the circumstances of the stop (traffic, stolen vehicle, etc.), (b) specifically what department policy was regarding communicating to drivers and if the officer followed that policy or his previous training. I think - at a minimum - a large battery award in the six-figure range is due the man and, depending on the answers to A & B, the officer should be terminated. I don't think this rises to the level of criminal charges from a moral/ethical standpoint, and I'm not qualified to comment on it from a legal perspective.

[saxitoxin]

South Carolina Department of Public Safety Director Leroy Smith fired Groubert September 19th after observing the video and reviewing a report from the State Law Enforcement Division. In dismissing Groubert, Smith called the facts of the case "disturbing."

The charges filed Wednesday were brought by the Fifth Circuit Solicitor's office, which also reviewed SLED's findings. Groubert faces 20 years in prison.

http://www.wltx.com/story/news/local/20 ... /16187305/

Nevermind, I guess I'd make a shit prosecutor.

[Gweeedo]

i thought state police had a very thorough screening process. how could this guy be let on the force[/color]? also, i read the guy fired four times but only hit once. thats fortunate for the victim, thankfully no one was pumping gas behind this incident while the officer just started wildly spraying bullets around. its a shame the officer didnt pull out his taser instead of the death ray in this instance. but it probably worked out for the better in the end. had he used the taser hed still be on the force. i read he is facing felony assault. hopefully it sticks.

Many police officers are ex-military, Jar heads...already been screened by the military.
If you think about it, the guy would have been well within his right to defend himself, had he made a move in self defense, the cop would probably be cleared...and the other guy...

The Ferguson Thingy is Great, best reality show on TV.

[DaGip]

i thought state police had a very thorough screening process. how could this guy be let on the force[/color]? also, i read the guy fired four times but only hit once. thats fortunate for the victim, thankfully no one was pumping gas behind this incident while the officer just started wildly spraying bullets around. its a shame the officer didnt pull out his taser instead of the death ray in this instance. but it probably worked out for the better in the end. had he used the taser hed still be on the force. i read he is facing felony assault. hopefully it sticks.

Many police officers are ex-military, Jar heads...already been screened by the military.
If you think about it, the guy would have been well within his right to defend himself, had he made a move in self defense, the cop would probably be cleared...and the other guy...

The Ferguson Thingy is Great, best reality show on TV.

I know. The media kept you watching their shows throughout the whole day. Right away in the early afternoon the media said "There is a decision, or A Decision is expected soon", and we waited ALL DAY LONG for that decision to come.

I was watching the Monday Night Football game, and kept turning it back and forth waiting for the decision, and then I turned it at half time and the report had just came out that the cop was let go.

I said,"Oh f*ck! The shit's going to hit the fan now!" And then reporters were choking on live television, almost getting hit by tear gas canisters. Then a cop car got set on fire...then it exploded (like in a fucking movie!). Then the looters were taking all the booze out of a store...my dad said,"I bet that is the same store that kid stole those cigarellos from." Then the store was on fire, then another, and another! And another cop car! The whole time, there is a big hanging holiday banner across the street that says "SEASONS GREETINGS"...LOL! We were mesmerized by the news report that we forgot there was a ball game on! We turned it back at the two minute warning and the Saints were losing!

Yep, you are correct...it was the best reality TV!

[DaGip]

Uh? How did this not receive an indictment?

[WILLIAMS5232]

Uh? How did this not receive an indictment?

it's amazing to me. personally i don't think cops should be allowed to just walk around killing non-violent citizens. although technically, i guess the guy should have allowed himself to be placed under arrest. even though i think that's b-shit as well. some cops just like to power trip. i don't think this really had anything to do with race, just a bunch of power tripping cops.

the ferguson thingy is a hard one to call because there was no video. but this was just cops being nothing but a bully. of course we don't know what went on before. i still don't think a headlock was the answer here.

[_sabotage_]

Will,

You are suggesting that he submit to authority. The people were supposed to determine reasonable situations were people were required to submit to authority, not for the benefit of authority, but the benefit of people.

The long list of restraints placed on authority have been systematically eroded, the justice system allowed money to tip the scales, and a large portion of the population feels either frightened, abused and/or disenchanted.

You can vote for a black President or a white one, one who is tough on crime or one who wants a new approach yet the system stays unbalanced.
You can submit to authority and still get your ass handed to you.
You can make a peaceful protest and nothing comes of it.
You can take to the media and courts to no avail.

If this shit were happening in Russia or China, it would be headline condemnation. If it happened in China, the officers would be executed. There wouldn't be 7 witnesses and video corroborating the victims side all ignored for one witness siding with the police. If the police themselves tried to lie, they'd get fucked. Hard.

[WILLIAMS5232]

Will,

You are suggesting that he submit to authority. The people were supposed to determine reasonable situations were people were required to submit to authority, not for the benefit of authority, but the benefit of people.

The long list of restraints placed on authority have been systematically eroded, the justice system allowed money to tip the scales, and a large portion of the population feels either frightened, abused and/or disenchanted.

You can vote for a black President or a white one, one who is tough on crime or one who wants a new approach yet the system stays unbalanced.
You can submit to authority and still get your ass handed to you.
You can make a peaceful protest and nothing comes of it.
You can take to the media and courts to no avail.

If this shit were happening in Russia or China, it would be headline condemnation. If it happened in China, the officers would be executed. There wouldn't be 7 witnesses and video corroborating the victims side all ignored for one witness siding with the police. If the police themselves tried to lie, they'd get fucked. Hard.

well, it depends on the reason why they approached him in the first place. i don't know the circumstances. i don't expect the police to ask a bank robber if they can arrest him. whether he is violent or not. i know it's something about selling cigarettes. now, texas and louisiana's cigarette prices are very different. so there is a market near the state lines for selling louisiana tobacco in texas. which is illegal. if this is what's happening, the guy needed to be arrested. if he was innocent then he shouldn't worry. i don't know what this business is about breaking up the fight. that's not a reason to be arrested, if that''s the reason he was approached, then the cops are in the wrong for that.

i have not been following that case so much because i'm burnt out on the whole white vs. black issue. blacks don't like white's because whites don't like blacks because blacks don't like whites because whites don't like blacks because blacks don't like whites because whites don't like...... blah blah blah.... slavery.

for the record, i mostly don't take the cops side. i think they basically just become cops so they can legally bully you around under the guise of "protect and serve". but more times than not, i would assume that a person puts themselves in the position of getting shot or killed when they didn't have to. now, that video of the guy in south carolina, is the complete opposite of what i just said there. i know things like that happen. and yes, the system is the problem. but with 300,000,000 million people in the country, i don't see how it can be altogether stopped. i can just about imagine as tensions grow in these bigger cities, things are going to get a lot worse before they get better. that cop in new york tho' should have been arrested and charged. it's bullshit that he got off like that.

[_sabotage_]

Phillip Morris adds freebase nicotine to cigarettes to make them more addictive.

The government then says, cigarettes are addictive and harmful, so we are going to tax them. They then enforce this tax by going after people who are undercutting their price. If the person in question is posing a danger to society, then a proper investigation should be in order, a proper arrest and a proper trial.

But we get the tax, but don't get the rest and Phillip Morris still adds freebase nicotine to cigarettes.

[patches70]

That should be a manslaughter charge or about. A 2 year sentence, suspended would be the most fair I suppose. I guess the cop didn't mean to kill the guy. The cop should also probably lose his job depending on past performance as the choke hold he used is forbidden by police procedures. If this particular cop has had past violations of procedures then he should be cut loose at the least.


On the matter of the cops in general, IMO we should pretty much stop glorifying the cops. I hear all the time "Being a cop is dangerous" etc etc etc, that they have to worry every time they make a traffic stop and other such stuff.
However, a recent FBI study* found that last year 74 police officers died in the line of duty. Of those 74 officers only 27 died from felonious assaults (i.e. shot, stabbed etc etc by bad guys). 49 died in traffic accidents. Some of those traffic deaths (14) could have been prevented if the dead cops in question had been wearing their seat belts (ironic).
The report also shows that violence against police is down from 2004 and 2009**.

In the study it was also found that last year there were about 49,851 assaults on police officers. Now that's a lot of assaults, certainly, but a lot of those a bullshit.
Of the 49,851 assaults only 29% (14,556) of those assaults actually resulted in injury of any kind.
Of those 14,556 injuries, 79.8% of the time the "assailants used personal weapons (hands, feet, fists)". This number of assaults is suspect because since there were no weapons a vast majority of the time there is no physical evidence that the assault occurred except for bruises, cuts and such and that information is not made public. The report also does not specify what constitutes as an "injury" which makes the injury potentially arbitrary and subjective.
For instance***, there was a woman in the occupy wall street stuff that was confronted by a police officer where the officer squeezed her breast (non sexual, trying to move her or something or other) to the point the woman was bruised. She flipped her elbow to push the officer's arm/hand off her and that's counted as an "assault on a police officer" and thus is part of the large number of these supposed assaults on police officers.

The main conclusion of the FBI report is that it is more dangerous operating a motor vehicle than it is to be a police officer.

Anyway, people keep saying "we have to arm the police better because <insert reason>" even though violent crime has been dropping for decades***.


Now take the number of police killed in the line of duty by criminals (27) and compare to how many people were killed by cops and you find something more disturbing.
There is no reliable data about how many people were killed by police last year, but some reports are saying as many as 400 were killed by police last year****.
That's 15 times higher than the number of police killed and these numbers are only from about 17,000 local police agencies allowed to self report.
The only reliable report of late was a 2008 FBI report on police shootings*****, but this report only includes homicides that occurred during the commission of a felony. It does not include the justifiable homicides or unjustified homicides committed by police. The number cited in this FBI report is 391 people killed, excluding all those killed who were not in commission of a felony or found to be justified homicides by police or the non-justified homicides by police. So a lot more than 391 people were killed by police in 2008. But as I said, there are no reliable studies as of yet of police homicides last year.

Only one thing is for sure, for every cop murdered in the line of duty, the cops are murdering at least 15 people, probably more.


*http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/leoka/2013/leoka-home

**http://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-releases-2013-statistics-on-law-enforcement-officers-killed-and-assaulted

***http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/05/19/cecily-mcmillan_n_5349501.html

****http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/09/08/how-many-police-shootings-a-year-no-one-knows


*****http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/news/nation/2008-10-14-justifiable_N.htm_

[DaGip]

Uh? How did this not receive an indictment?

Wow. The video had like 600,000 views when I first posted, then the next morning it had 1.6 million views. Now the video has all of a sudden been taken down because of "copyright" bullshit. This video has been up since day one of Garner's death, now YouTube decides to pull it because of some type of bullshit copyright infringement?



and I need to post this video too, for good measure:

[mrswdk]

YouTube decides to pull it because of some type of bullshit copyright infringement?

I guess that means the state's decided how it plans on responding to the latest discontent.

[DaGip]

YouTube decides to pull it because of some type of bullshit copyright infringement?

I guess that means the state's decided how it plans on responding to the latest discontent.

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 8&t=209457

[patches70]

This won't be taken down for copyright infringement. A nice montage of police brutality caught on camera. Enjoy!

[DaGip]

This won't be taken down for copyright infringement. A nice montage of police brutality caught on camera. Enjoy!

I wouldn't say that that "is what happens" when you call the cops, but that is what may happen (extremely rare) when you call them. But I was impressed by the musicians style and lyric creation.

[patches70]

I wouldn't say that that "is what happens" when you call the cops, but that is what may happen (extremely rare) when you call them.

Sure, I guess. I don't know, I've never had to deal with police brutality. Then again, I'm white, I don't do drugs, drink or commit crimes, so there's that I suppose. Haha.

But, I also don't live in the city, had to deal with the implementation of the broken windows theory either*. Now I'm going out on a limb here, but New York's implementation of broken windows theory has reduced the police's legitimacy. You send in massive amounts of cops into a neighborhood and start manhandling everyone, spot searches and being cited for every little thing imaginable.

Sure, the cops catch some people with outstanding warrants, but for every criminal they catch, they harass 10 or more people who aren't doing a thing wrong. This happens day after day, week after week, month after month. Pretty soon everyone starts to rue walking down the street because they are always hassled by the police.

The legitimacy of the police suffers because in a healthy society the police are supposed to view themselves as part of the community. The police officers should be from the communities they police and not apart from that community. The culture of the police these days is "us vs them".
Police officers have to also accept that their job has a greater degree of risk and have to accept those risks. If one is not willing to accept those risks then they shouldn't be police officers. Instead, the police all too often seem to think they are soldiers in a war zone, use the most violent solution to every problem and treat the citizenry as enemies and milk cows.

All this and more combines to make the public not only distrust the police, but also get angry. Which only heightens the police's paranoia that everyone out there is potentially out there to kill them (though actual statistics show otherwise, don't they?).

Not only that, but police are almost immune to prosecution. The grand juries failing to indict in Ferguson and (far more surprisingly considering) New York is a very rare occurrence. In the most recent data available for grand jury indictments is 2010. In 2010, out of 162,000 grand juries, only 11 declined to return an indictment. Grand juries return indictments in over 99.9999% of the time, unless it involves the police**.
For instance, an investigation in the city of Houston by the Houston Chronicle found that Harris County grand juries decline to return an indictment and cleared police shootings 288 consecutive times.

The cops just don't get prosecuted. Even if the cops shoot an unarmed suspect, all the cop has to do is say the thought it was a gun.

So we in practice see at least two separate justice systems, one for all the regular people and another for the police. And even when police are actually indicted and then convicted, they don't go to jail!
In 2006, nation wide felony defendants were convicted 68% of the time and of those 48% were incarcerated (as opposed to suspended sentences, probation, etc etc).
On the other hand, 2009-2010 among police officers nation wide who face felony charges were convicted only 33% of the time and only 12% were ever actually incarcerated. I suppose those that were incarcerated had fucked up so badly that it was impossible to cover it up.

That's a big difference, the only other group I ever see that has an easier time in the justice system is the bankers and the CEO's and such. Those bastards never go to jail.

Hell, I've never had any problems with police brutality, but from my own experience cops are liars and I don't trust a cop for shit. Of course, they have to be liars considering their job and they're trained to be liars. But man, even if you haven't done anything wrong, you don't talk to the cops. Ever. Not without a lawyer.
If you don't believe me, then believe a law school professor. Kind of a long video, but man, it's worth it-



Even if you are a law abiding citizen, you can't trust the cops. And that's a fucking serious problem.




* https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... JrYouRLFbg

** http://www.houstonchronicle.com/local/i ... -24421.php