Greece: 48 Hours to the End

GoranZ · Post by **GoranZ** » Fri Jul 10, 2015 12:09 pm

More money EU gives, more money it will never see. I read the Greek plan is to ask another 53 mil euros

mrswdk · Post by **mrswdk** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 4:08 am

Holds referendum on bailout terms, campaigns to reject them.
Bailout terms are overwhelmingly rejected by voters.
Forces resignation of finance minister who was vocally opposed to bailout terms.
Applies for bailout promising almost identical concessions.

GoranZ · Post by **GoranZ** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 4:15 am

mrswdk wrote:Holds referendum on bailout terms, campaigns to reject them.
Bailout terms are overwhelmingly rejected by voters.
Forces resignation of finance minister who was vocally opposed to bailout terms.
Applies for bailout promising almost identical concessions.

And he asks for more money... probably he will get them. *3 saving programs in 7 years

Only possible in EU

Has someone wonder why EU is project doomed to fail?

Someone wanna bet that Greece will need more money in 2018?

warmonger1981 · Post by **warmonger1981** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 9:22 pm

I don't think you answered my questions. Do you believe one economical system works for every country? Do you believe one central bank or one central agency dictating policy works for all countries? How do you feel about the banks getting the money instead of Greece as Nigel stated?

mrswdk · Post by **mrswdk** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 10:54 pm

warmonger1981 wrote:How do you feel about the banks getting the money instead of Greece as Nigel stated?

wut? Greece was given the money to help it pay off its debts, not to have a party. Obviously the money was all going to go to people like banks.

Perhaps you feel that people who get themselves into unsustainable debt should just have it written off and be told not to worry about it, no biggy.

warmonger1981 · Post by **warmonger1981** » Sat Jul 11, 2015 11:29 pm

According to Nigel the money was to help bail out French, German and Italian banks. Not to help the Greek people. What does he mean by that then?

Your still not answering my questions Mrs.

And what if I do feel if someone got into loans that are unsustainable and just writes them off?

So please answer my questions and quit dodging the questions.

mrswdk · Post by **mrswdk** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 12:00 am

warmonger1981 wrote:And what if I do feel if someone got into loans that are unsustainable and just writes them off?

You feel if someone got into loans that are unsustainable and just writes them off?

But what if because it isn't if it was helpful?

waauw · Post by **waauw** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 3:31 am

warmonger1981 wrote:I don't think you answered my questions. Do you believe one economical system works for every country? Do you believe one central bank or one central agency dictating policy works for all countries? How do you feel about the banks getting the money instead of Greece as Nigel stated?

I already told you why I didn't want to answer your question. Every single one of those questions is not very europe unique:

Question 1: Spreading of economic ideology has been happening ever since the end of the second world war.
Question 3: It's called federalizing and it's been happening all over history.
Question 3: Ever heard of the IMF and the world bank? Western countries are basically giving loans to 3rd world countries so they can lay the foundations for... western corporations, whilst selling their resource contracts to yet again western corporations.

If you want to start asking questions about global workings, instead of the european one in specific, go open another topic.

waauw · Post by **waauw** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 3:49 am

warmonger1981 wrote:I don't think you answered my questions. Do you believe one economical system works for every country? Do you believe one central bank or one central agency dictating policy works for all countries? How do you feel about the banks getting the money instead of Greece as Nigel stated?

And FYI:

When an economic system doesn't work yet, you make it work. Do you think capitalism fit every country immediately? Do you think Democracy did? Countries need to learn to work with them. That takes time to learn as I already mentioned. China is currently changing itself from a communist régime to a capitalist one, do you honestly think that's possible in the blink of an eye? Do you think the transition from monarchal authocracies to democracies 100-200 years ago was a smooth one? It takes time to set in every single time you make major changes.
If synchronized yes.
Is that so special? Isn't that what politicians are elected for? Isn't their primary task to safeguard their own country's future first before that of a foreign one? Isn't it the task of a German Chancellor to save German banks? Secondly, can you actually save the Greek economy and in extention the Greek people without saving the banks? The financial sector is the backbone of every single modern economy. If it fails, all other sectors and its individuals fail, as well as the government. They are all so very interconnected, you have no other choice but to save the banks.

waauw · Post by **waauw** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 3:51 am

warmonger1981 wrote:According to Nigel the money was to help bail out French, German and Italian banks. Not to help the Greek people. What does he mean by that then?

Your still not answering my questions Mrs.

And what if I do feel if someone got into loans that are unsustainable and just writes them off?

So please answer my questions and quit dodging the questions.

How very subtle, the american talking to the chinese about writing off debt. Nice try

GoranZ · Post by **GoranZ** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 4:37 am

warmonger1981 wrote:According to Nigel the money was to help bail out French, German and Italian banks. Not to help the Greek people. What does he mean by that then?

He means what he said... Greece had debt towards French banks(It should be noted that French banks had as much more of Greek debt as German and Italian banks combined), they were giving credits to Greece for the last 30 years without securing adequate collateral, if there was any collateral at all.
With the previous 2 bailouts Greece payed most of that debt but created new towards European Institutions. Now when French banks are not in danger, and whole Europe should pay for the mistakes of the banks from Europe.

source for 2012 bailout

Structure of Greek debt by countries in November 2010, after the first bailout(Happened at the beginning of 2010)

It should be noted that whole Europe(not just Eurozone) had less of Greek debt then France alone.

Structure of Greek debt owned by banks

*French banks were almost all saved with 2012 bailout

According to me France should pay for mistakes of its banks when it comes to Greece, not whole Europe.

warmonger1981 · Post by **warmonger1981** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:05 am

So your saying yes, one economic ideology would work for everyone. So how do you feel about American and European corporation lobbying forTransatlantic Free Trade Area? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transat ... Trade_Area or https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transat ... artnership or ISDS? I'm sorry but central banking and currency are not strictly a European thing as you would suggest. I don't believe the IMF or World Bank have much to do with this current situation in Greece. You ever heard of Bank for International Settlements? I'm pretty sure the Euro is part of the global scheme so don't act like your situation is isolated from the rest of the world.

So if an economical situation doesn't work you make it work. Sounds like a totalitarian. I hardly believe China will be a free market capitalist country. More fascist I would believe it to become. If any of these countries tried to safeguard their own countries sovereignty no one would be in this situation. They would be letting their own particular country run on its own economic system. If we all have to save the banks then don't we all just work for the banks then.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... rtsEHiA-fw

mrswdk · Post by **mrswdk** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:18 am

warmonger1981 wrote:I hardly believe China will be a free market capitalist country. More fascist I would believe it to become.

Do you even know what fascism is?

Given that you're juxtaposing it with free market capitalism, I'm going to assume not.

warmonger1981 · Post by **warmonger1981** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:33 am

Do you know what juxtaposing means? I said China will not be free market capitalist. I believe more fascist in the future. What's so juxtaposing about that? I don't even know why I'm wasting my time with you mrs. You can't even answer one question.

mrswdk · Post by **mrswdk** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 8:49 am

GoranZ · Post by **GoranZ** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:10 am

warmonger1981 wrote:So your saying yes, one economic ideology would work for everyone. So how do you feel about American and European corporation lobbying forTransatlantic Free Trade Area? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transat ... Trade_Area

If regulated properly transatlantic free trade area could be beneficial for both Europe and America. But the terms for everything must be set before establishing the area... For example if there is a crysis everyone to be well aware what the consequences will be, not like with EU to stitch the problems as they come.

warmonger1981 wrote:I'm sorry but central banking and currency are not strictly a European thing as you would suggest. I don't believe the IMF or World Bank have much to do with this current situation in Greece. You ever heard of Bank for International Settlements? I'm pretty sure the Euro is part of the global scheme so don't act like your situation is isolated from the rest of the world.

IMF/World Bank have nothing to do with the current situation in Greece, they never had.

warmonger1981 wrote:So if an economical situation doesn't work you make it work. Sounds like a totalitarian. I hardly believe China will be a free market capitalist country. More fascist I would believe it to become. If any of these countries tried to safeguard their own countries sovereignty no one would be in this situation. They would be letting their own particular country run on its own economic system. If we all have to save the banks then don't we all just work for the banks then.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... rtsEHiA-fw

China recently had little problems with the stock exchange, I presume the lesson is learned, the market become too liberalized in the last year.

Generally its horrible to have fully liberalized market, you must have regulated free market to smooth out the fluctuations on the market. China learned this the hard way but if proper conclusions are made they will return even stronger.

warmonger1981 · Post by **warmonger1981** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 9:59 am

That's my point. The IMF and World Bank had nothing to do with Greece. I don't know why waauw even tried to equate them into the equation. The problem with the transatlantic partnership is that my senators can't speak about its provisions until its passed. Doesn't sound very transparent. Lobbyists working in secret to establish intercontinental regulations intertwining our economies.

warmonger1981 · Post by **warmonger1981** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:02 am

Still waiting for an answer mrs. A picture with a cartoon giving a thumbs up because I'm so beautiful with a huge cock has nothing to do with you trolling worse than Andy. Still looking for answers mrs.

mrswdk · Post by **mrswdk** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:17 am

You mean this question?

warmonger1981 wrote:According to Nigel the money was to help bail out French, German and Italian banks. Not to help the Greek people. What does he mean by that then?

He's just making a non sequitur. ’The money wasn't given to Greek people, hurr the banks'. What purpose would giving the money to Greek people serve?

He's not a very serious politician. Earlier this year he missed an engagement because he got stuck in traffic, then (in complete seriousness) blamed the amount of traffic on immigrants. Best to treat most of the things he says as performance art, or satire.

WingCmdr Ginkapo · Post by **WingCmdr Ginkapo** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:19 am

They've bailed out the French, German and Italian banks. The Greeks are still in a lot of debt. Nothing has changed.

This isnt an action of compassion, its saving their own skins. Nigel has a point

mrswdk · Post by **mrswdk** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:21 am

WingCmdr Ginkapo wrote:They've bailed out the French, German and Italian banks. The Greeks are still in a lot of debt. Nothing has changed.

This isnt an action of compassion, its saving their own skins. Nigel has a point

The bailouts were to prevent Greece from defaulting on its debts and going bankrupt.

WingCmdr Ginkapo · Post by **WingCmdr Ginkapo** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:22 am

mrswdk wrote:
WingCmdr Ginkapo wrote:They've bailed out the French, German and Italian banks. The Greeks are still in a lot of debt. Nothing has changed.

This isnt an action of compassion, its saving their own skins. Nigel has a point
The bailouts were to prevent Greece from defaulting on its debts and going bankrupt.

No they werent, they were to buy Europe some more time. Greece will default in a year or so.

mrswdk · Post by **mrswdk** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:29 am

WingCmdr Ginkapo wrote:
mrswdk wrote:
WingCmdr Ginkapo wrote:They've bailed out the French, German and Italian banks. The Greeks are still in a lot of debt. Nothing has changed.

This isnt an action of compassion, its saving their own skins. Nigel has a point
The bailouts were to prevent Greece from defaulting on its debts and going bankrupt.
No they werent, they were to buy Europe some more time. Greece will default in a year or so.

I see no reason to claim that the IMF bailed Greece out assuming that Greece would default in a few years anyway, given that no such assumption was made when Portugal, Spain and Ireland were given bailouts.

waauw · Post by **waauw** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 10:57 am

warmonger1981 wrote:So your saying yes, one economic ideology would work for everyone. So how do you feel about American and European corporation lobbying forTransatlantic Free Trade Area? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transat ... Trade_Area or https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transat ... artnership or ISDS? I'm sorry but central banking and currency are not strictly a European thing as you would suggest. I don't believe the IMF or World Bank have much to do with this current situation in Greece. You ever heard of Bank for International Settlements? I'm pretty sure the Euro is part of the global scheme so don't act like your situation is isolated from the rest of the world.

So if an economical situation doesn't work you make it work. Sounds like a totalitarian. I hardly believe China will be a free market capitalist country. More fascist I would believe it to become. If any of these countries tried to safeguard their own countries sovereignty no one would be in this situation. They would be letting their own particular country run on its own economic system. If we all have to save the banks then don't we all just work for the banks then.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... rtsEHiA-fw

I'm not against a transatlantic free trade agreement, under certain conditions that is. For instance I would not want any american GMO's entering the european market. Monsanto can keep his garbage.

I never said the eurozone was an isolated incident, but this topic in specific is about the eurozone, not about the rest of the world. You attempted to divert the topic of discussion.

And don't exagerate. The eurozone isn't totalitarian. If the Greeks want out, they can, but as it stands most of 'm want to remain in the euro. To be part of the euro they need to adjust to the rest of the eurozone, and change their money management culture.

waauw · Post by **waauw** » Sun Jul 12, 2015 11:20 am

warmonger1981 wrote:That's my point. The IMF and World Bank had nothing to do with Greece. I don't know why waauw even tried to equate them into the equation. The problem with the transatlantic partnership is that my senators can't speak about its provisions until its passed. Doesn't sound very transparent. Lobbyists working in secret to establish intercontinental regulations intertwining our economies.

And you don't get my point. I tried to point out that you were asking questions that will do nothing else but lead the subject astray. It's not because you're in the OT that you have to lead OT-topics OT.

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