[SPECIAL] Surprise Mafia - Over - Mafia Wins - MVP Aladdin

[degaston]

If we were both scum, then he could throw me under the bus in order to "prove" that both he and rish were town, and that Rage's invention worked.

No! if you were both scum then he would have put 3 townies in the frame with his definer, when we lynched all 3 he would complain that the definer was defective.

However you want to argue it, it seems we agree that it is unlikely that both benga and I are scum.

On the other hand, if he was scum and knew that I was town, then lynching me would most likely get him lynched the next day, perhaps followed by rage and mets and... ?

again, no. had i been on just before deadline i would have switched my vote to you just so that we had some sort of lynch. no way could one call someone scum for hammering the only possible lynch 10 minutes before deadline

I think there is a big difference between you hammering me and benga. You're much more confirmed town than he is, and could probably get away with hammering a townie without drawing much suspicion. He posted at 9:42 this morning, while I was trying to get him lynched. It would have been easy for him to vote for me at that time, and though it might look a little OMGUSish, he would have been vindicated if I flipped scum.

Deg, if indeed you are town then benga must be town surely? and that leaves rish as being scum.

A moment ago you said that a scum benga would have named three townies with the definer, so it doesn't make any sense for you to say that if I'm town, then benga has to be also.

could you be scum? then why did benga not hammer? could he be your scum buddy? no, you would not have been in the 3 possibles if he were, therefore it would seem from that logic that the only possibility is that you and benga are both town and rish is scum. what do others think?

I think it is possible (though unlikely) that even if he were scum, he could have included a scum in his list to confirm both himself and rage as town. This would be dangerous, though, because if the scum is lynched first, then that would confirm the other two as town.

It would also have been possible for him to name three scum, and then when the first one was lynched the other two, along with rage and benga would all be confirmed as town. That obviously didn't happen. Even if they had thought of it, it might have been too risky to justify. If one of the "confirmed" players got killed, then all of the other confirmations would be suspect.

I have no proof that benga is scum, or that rish is town, but as you have pointed out, it makes little sense for benga not to have voted for me if he is town.

[AladdinSane]

Look VERY Strongly at those who made sure we got to a no lynch.

Voting Benga when there was no chance in Hell of getting a lynch just insured a no lynch.

Look VERY Strongly at those who made sure we got to a no lynch.

Voting Benga when there was no chance in Hell of getting a lynch just insured a no lynch.

If teh invenchuns show tomorow dat Ragian's invenchuns werk and dat Deg is Town, it will be those who were on teh Deg wagon today dat we'll be looking hard at. particklarly those who joined it neer teh end. Wun posibul reeson dat Mafia failed to linch Deg dat hasent been advansed so far is dat dey wanted to, but fer sum RL reeson wun or moor of dem dident make it back online in time to change there vote.

Benga was a chanse - he was up to 5 votes before RB changed to Deg, and Deg was at L-1 at teh end - nuttink "insured" they dident get linched. Either cood eesily have got linched if those clinging to genuine no-hope votes - Rish, /, DJP, and Benga - had changed to wun of dem. We need to keep looking at dese guys as well.

[CatchersMitt14]

Look VERY Strongly at those who made sure we got to a no lynch.

Voting Benga when there was no chance in Hell of getting a lynch just insured a no lynch.

I think there is some benifit to this approach however I do not feel this can be the leading reason to lynchify someonel. No lynch is not an ideal outcome of the day but I do still believe it's better than blindly following someone's lead. Several of the people in this game are just following along and I believe it's in large part because they've really lost interest in this game. Ultimatley, that makes it easier for scum.

If teh invenchuns show tomorow dat Ragian's invenchuns werk and dat Deg is Town, it will be those who were on teh Deg wagon today dat we'll be looking hard at. particklarly those who joined it neer teh end. Wun posibul reeson dat Mafia failed to linch Deg dat hasent been advansed so far is dat dey wanted to, but fer sum RL reeson wun or moor of dem dident make it back online in time to change there vote.

Benga was a chanse - he was up to 5 votes before RB changed to Deg, and Deg was at L-1 at teh end - nuttink "insured" they dident get linched. Either cood eesily have got linched if those clinging to genuine no-hope votes - Rish, /, DJP, and Benga - had changed to wun of dem. We need to keep looking at dese guys as well.

In my opinion the ones who were sitting on deg for a while should also be considered. Those that started the day conversing and landing on a deg lynch then sat quitely through the rest of the day when other options were presented (such as Aladdin and deg) are in my book scum.

[Metsfanmax]

In my opinion the ones who were sitting on deg for a while should also be considered. Those that started the day conversing and landing on a deg lynch then sat quitely through the rest of the day when other options were presented (such as Aladdin and deg) are in my book scum.

The other options were crap. The only case that had any chance of succeeding at some point was benga, and I sure as hell wasn't going to change my vote to benga, who I am confident is town, just to test a theory (and the only reasonable case for it was advanced by the person I'm most confident is scum). If we had lynched benga and he flipped town, then we would have been right back where we started from tomorrow except down two more townies (assuming a NK tonight). We'd still have to then decide between rish and deg. So, to me, it's the people that wouldn't risk lynching a VT and instead went off on some wild tangent with little chance of success that are most likely to be scum. Even if you thought a benga lynch was better play than a deg lynch, it was started way too late in the day to come together, so the benga voters (minus deg of course, can't really blame him for not voting himself) are the ones responsible for the fact that now we don't have any information at all and we have nothing to show for it.

So you can throw out accusations all you want, but be ready to look in the mirror if you're going to.

[Metsfanmax]

Maybe you should look at why benga kept his vote on rish and didn't hammer me?

If he was town, and confident of his report that either rish or I was scum, then he shouldn't have that strong preference for one over the other.

Dude, what? The entire basis of your argument against my case on you was that town should have a strong preference between one over the other (specifically that rish was scummy, not you) if we assume that the alignment definer was correct. You even voted rishaed at some point, saying that the alignment definer was likely real and truthful. Earlier in the day you admitted that the only situation in which benga was scum was pretty outlandish and involved ridiculous shit like scum intentionally not doing a NK:

Since benga reported getting a result, the only way that Rage is a scum false inventor is if benga is also scum, and they made up a result for him to report. This could also provide an alternate explanation for the no-kill on N3. Scum could have refrained from killing to establish that Rage's bulletproof invention worked, and give more validity to the 'Alignment Definer'. Then they could identify three townies to get them all lynched, or perhaps include a sacrificial scum to continue the deception with more inventions if needed. I can't explain what Rage would have said if I had used the gun in some other way and it still hadn't worked.

The whole thing seems fairly unlikely to me, but I'm not sure that I can rule it out at this point.

Yet by the end you were pushing hard for benga, and the only thing that had changed was that he didn't hammer you? And you're flipping your entire argument around and suddenly act shocked when someone agrees with your earlier statement that rish is more scummy than you? I admire the sheer balls involved in this play, to completely reverse your argument just to point the finger at someone other than yourself, but I'm certainly not going to let it go unchallenged, and I honestly can't believe that you're still alive given how you'll lie through your teeth to get a lynch.

[benga]

I have no proof that benga is scum, or that rish is town, but as you have pointed out, it makes little sense for benga not to have voted for me if he is town.

so i am scum if i vote you and i am scum if i don't vote you

or are you trying to say you are scum?

[degaston]

I have no proof that benga is scum, or that rish is town, but as you have pointed out, it makes little sense for benga not to have voted for me if he is town.

so i am scum if i vote you and i am scum if i don't vote you

or are you trying to say you are scum?

Yes, you were in a no-win situation. You couldn't vote for yourself, and if you kept your vote on rish, then we could end up with a no-lynch, which is almost never considered townish.

Or you could have switched your vote to me, and if I flipped scum, you would have been the hero. So why wasn't that an attractive option?

You haven't said a word in my defense the whole game, and I was trying to get you lynched, so it doesn't seem like you should have had much of a problem with lynching me. The only way I think it becomes a serious dilemma for you is if you already know that I'm going to flip town. Then it will look like you were trying to silence a town player who was trying to get you lynched.

So why don't you explain your thinking? Why were you so sure that I was town? Let's see if you can convince Mets!

[madmitch]

mafia is going to win if we keep playing like this, a no linch what a joke, just gave the scum another kill shot. Just kill me already, shoot me tonight or hang me tomorrow

[degaston]

If we had lynched benga and he flipped town, then we would have been right back where we started from tomorrow except down two more townies (assuming a NK tonight). We'd still have to then decide between rish and deg.

And if you had lynched me and I flipped town, where would you be? Down two townies and still deciding between rish and benga, but you wouldn't have any idea whether you could trust rage and his inventions, or how LSU's inventions work.

Maybe you should look at why benga kept his vote on rish and didn't hammer me?

If he was town, and confident of his report that either rish or I was scum, then he shouldn't have that strong preference for one over the other.

Dude, what? The entire basis of your argument against my case on you was that town should have a strong preference between one over the other (specifically that rish was scummy, not you) if we assume that the alignment definer was correct. You even voted rishaed at some point, saying that the alignment definer was likely real and truthful. Earlier in the day you admitted that the only situation in which benga was scum was pretty outlandish and involved ridiculous shit like scum intentionally not doing a NK:

My case on rish was that he disappeared when he was one of a few people who was under suspicion. And what did you have to say about that?

I have never read alignment from activity level, and I'm not going to start now.

And what was your case against me?

I have already admitted that I don't have much of a case against you other than the alignment definer. However I do trust the alignment definer so this is a pointless exercise. One of either you or rish is scum, in my estimation. I just don't know who, but I think maybe 65-35 that it's you.

But the alignment definer was not just against me - it was against both me and rish. And you admit that aside from that, you don't have a case against either one of us.

But you believe that the alignment definer is true, and that benga is town (if either one of those things is false, then there is no case against us at all), and benga is so convinced that I am town that he preferred a no-lynch over lynching me. He certainly had the opportunity to vote for me, but his post at 9:42 was just useless, and had already been answered. It was just over 2 hours 'til deadline, so he could see that there was no way rish was going to be lynched.

Do you think it was townish, or scummy for benga to avoid voting for me?

[Metsfanmax]

And if you had lynched me and I flipped town, where would you be? Down two townies and still deciding between rish and benga, but you wouldn't have any idea whether you could trust rage and his inventions, or how LSU's inventions work.

I do trust Rage and his inventions. If you flipped town my vote would immediately be on rishaed. I agree with your original assessment that the whole benga + Ragian are scum buddies scenario is incredibly unlikely; you're the one who seems to have conveniently forgotten about it when your ass was on the line.

My case on rish was that he disappeared when he was one of a few people who was under suspicion. And what did you have to say about that?

I have never read alignment from activity level, and I'm not going to start now.

And what was your case against me?

I have already admitted that I don't have much of a case against you other than the alignment definer. However I do trust the alignment definer so this is a pointless exercise. One of either you or rish is scum, in my estimation. I just don't know who, but I think maybe 65-35 that it's you.

But the alignment definer was not just against me - it was against both me and rish. And you admit that aside from that, you don't have a case against either one of us.

Completely non-responsive to my point. I pointed out that if we're in the mindset that we have to pick one of either you or rish, then we have to decide which of you is more scummy. You agreed with that, which is why you voted rishaed and argued against my case on you. You cannot then turn around and argue that it's scummy to vote rishaed. You might disagree with the particular reasons given by a person for doing so; obviously I don't agree with benga on the object-level considerations. However I certainly agree with him on the meta-level consideration that it's one of you two. And that's the reasoning that you completely reversed.

But you believe that the alignment definer is true, and that benga is town (if either one of those things is false, then there is no case against us at all), and benga is so convinced that I am town that he preferred a no-lynch over lynching me. He certainly had the opportunity to vote for me, but his post at 9:42 was just useless, and had already been answered. It was just over 2 hours 'til deadline, so he could see that there was no way rish was going to be lynched.

If he's so convinced that you are town that he preferred a no-lynch over lynching you, then voting rishaed is the obvious play. So how am I supposed to read anything other than him being town into his actions? His actions are completely consistent with the perspective that the alignment definer is correct and benga is town. And we've already gone over a number of times how nonsensical the 'benga is scum' argument is.

[degaston]

I do trust Rage and his inventions. If you flipped town my vote would immediately be on rishaed. I agree with your original assessment that the whole benga + Ragian are scum buddies scenario is incredibly unlikely; you're the one who seems to have conveniently forgotten about it when your ass was on the line.

Lying to try to make your point only makes you seem desperate. I never said that it was "incredibly unlikely". I said that it seemed fairly unlikely to me, but that I wasn't sure that I could rule it out. His actions at the end of D5 makes it seem more and more likely.

Completely non-responsive to my point. I pointed out that if we're in the mindset that we have to pick one of either you or rish, then we have to decide which of you is more scummy. You agreed with that, which is why you voted rishaed and argued against my case on you. You cannot then turn around and argue that it's scummy to vote rishaed. [You can when his vote stays there as the only vote for rish, and it results in a no lynch] You might disagree with the particular reasons given by a person for doing so; [He never gave any reasons for preferring a no lynch] obviously I don't agree with benga on the object-level considerations. However I certainly agree with him on the meta-level consideration that it's one of you two. [The only other choice was himself! ] And that's the reasoning that you completely reversed.

If he's so convinced that you are town that he preferred a no-lynch over lynching you, then voting rishaed is the obvious play. [He never gave any indication that he was convinced that I was town. His entire reason for voting for rish was "he jailed storr and before that wing" - there's some thoughtful analysis for you] So how am I supposed to read anything other than him being town into his actions? [Allowing a no-lynch is now a townie move to you? Are you sure you want to stick with that story?] His actions are completely consistent with the perspective that the alignment definer is correct and benga is town. [I've already shown how they are inconsistent with him being town. In what way are his actions are inconsistent with being scum?] And we've already gone over a number of times how nonsensical the 'benga is scum' argument is.

[Metsfanmax]

You do realize that you're the one who stopped the lynch, right? If you had not fought against us lynching you, then we wouldn't be in the situation we're in right now.

[degaston]

You do realize that you're the one who stopped the lynch, right? If you had not fought against us lynching you, then we wouldn't be in the situation we're in right now.

Yes, I realize that. Are you saying that a townie shouldn't fight against being lynched? I should have just given up, like benga:

vote me and end this shit
game over soon anyway

That's really helpful.

I, of course, have the unique perspective of knowing that I'm town, and that my lynch would not be beneficial. If benga was town, he would not have known that, so unless he had some secret proof that I was town, he should have preferred lynching me over no lynch.

[benga]

-1 is still better than -2

[LSU Tiger Josh]

Those that tried to do a bandwagon to late in the day are to blame for this idiocy. There is no reason we should've had a no lynch when we have no proof that the item in question does not work as it was intended by Ragian.

[PLAYER57832]

Unless we ALL are town, or all other than the jester?

[PLAYER57832]

Just kidding... doubt "bastard" would mean that...

[degaston]

-1 is still better than -2

If you're town, don't you think you owe people a little bit more of an explanation than that?

[benga]

-1 is still better than -2

If you're town, don't you think you owe people a little bit more of an explanation than that?

yes i presume you to be town and rish scum based oh his jails and rags invention
simple as that
also following wings last words

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

A new day dawns after a night in which the sound of tinkering and banging was notably absent. Wondering whether their favourite professor was ok, ghe town rushed to his aid, only to discover their worst nightmare imprissoned in a hydraulic ram.

LSU, town insane inventor has died.

D6 begins, 8 to lynch. Deadline 11th March 14:00 CC time

[degaston]

May as well get started...
Benga, did you use the blood test, and did you ask wing why you couldn't use it during the day?
Rish, who did you jail?
Rage, what did you make, and who did you give it to?
Whoever received Rage's invention, can you use it during the day?
It's up to the mods, but kills are usually one of the last things to happen at night, so did anyone receive a final invention from LSU?

[madmitch]

YES i DID it tells me the ones who fucked up the vote are all assholes and scum and I should join you to win

[benga]

Did no t receive item
Was told it was with flavor
Rizky turned out antitown
Nothing has really changed for me

[degaston]

Did no t receive item
Was told it was with flavor What are you talking about?
Rizky turned out antitown So the blood test was just a cop investigation?
Nothing has really changed for me

I'm trying to start the day with an open mind about you, but I see from other threads that you're capable of posts like this:

My opinion changes on Dakky practically every time he opens his mouth - I can't tell if he's scum or town, but I think we'll have a much clearer picture of him on D2. If he is scum, I would want to look closer at strike.

So you are basically saying we shouldn't lynch dakky until we have better picture in D2?
That's the same thing I said regarding dakky and End, as they have both made their claims.

I understand why my vote on Streaker is OMGUS, but as I stated from the start it was just my feeling about him.
If you go aggro, you have to be prepared to be challenged and as I was going thru his post, for every think he called me out
he was doing it the same or in greater manner.(He voted for 2 people and made couple of casees on others or does inconsistency refers to something else?)

I wasn't adding to discussion where I felt I have nothing to contribute, that's why I wanted to hear more about Mets.
The connection I found, being true or not, just caught my eye and seemed interesting to me.

At this point I think there are 4 people going for my ass, so only thing is I ask don't hammer me before I have time to respond.

Okay just looked back and found some more gems.
So this is where it basically started. I didn't even push any case of him and started defending about nothing.
And he jumped on me out of nothing while there was heated debate about dakky, End, IB.
Does anyone notice the irony?

So why have you seemingly lost the ability to form coherent sentences?

[degaston]

Benga your gift is indeed from me. You aren't being manipulated. It was mentioned that I should do one that should be used on me so I can try to verify if I'm just insane or completely goofy inventor.

Benga, why didn't you use the test on LSU, like he asked?