[SPECIAL] Surprise Mafia - Over - Mafia Wins - MVP Aladdin

[Metsfanmax]

A very good reason not to mass claim, take note storr and wcg

I disagree. The number of times players, IB in particular, asked people for claims AFTER massclaim was ridiculous. The information wasnt used once Storr died, so I dont think a judgement can really be made.

I disagree. Mass claims are inherently coordination problems. The fact that it died with Storr is precisely the problem with it: by its nature, it's a type of action that requires everyone to want it to happen ahead of time, or else it will get fucked with. If only one person is driving it, it's bound to fail.

This wasn't my best game, but by far I think the greatest mistake I made was participating in that.

[AladdinSane]

The Legend of El Turperbuoco Diablo

For generations, the Townsfolk had written him off as an urban legend, a scary figure that mothers invoked to frighten their children into good behavior and exemplary spelling. Little did they realize that he lurked in their midst, as part of the deadly Mets gang of cutthroat Mafiosi.


Finally made it back online. Thank you to the Mods - Streaker and Dakky - and especially to Wing for taking over at a difficult time and seeing the game through to conclusion. I had some doubts at first at having a player who still had an active interest in a Town win perform as Mod, but Wing did the job is a very impartial and fair way.

I guess both sides had their share of bad luck. On our side, we had PCM get modkilled, then Rish was overtaken by RL stuff so we had to bus him, and of course we found out, around D5 I think, that / was a usurper who needed Mets dead in order to win. We were actually setting up a Mets lynch for the next day when the game ended, but we wanted another Town (player) out of the way first - hence my call to give Mets a chance to finger scum overnight. On the other hand, Mafia caught a break with Storr's insistence on massclaim - that really just helped us picked off the power roles at will.

A lot of this game, for me, revolved around sowing seeds of doubt - revived Marashu's alignment, the manner in which LSU TJ's inventions misfired, whether Ragian's inventions worked at all, and so forth, and letting Town do the work for us. That was pretty successful, I think. Re: TWR: I wasn't too concerned if he was bulletproof or not, since we could afford to assume he was and just cut down the other trusted players around him, while we worked to get the less trusted players lynched.

Thanks to Mets, Rish and / - was a pleasure being scum with you. I think one of the reasons we were hard to find is that we pretty much operated independently most of the time, so it was difficult to draw associations between is.

Thanks to everyone else also. Player I thought did quite well actually and her instincts were good - prob just lacked the confidence to push them through.

Apologies for the misspelling, but when I saw how much ot was distracting people, I just had to push it as hard as I could.

More later, just gone 2am here (Jakarta). Well done, all!

[AladdinSane]

My first post in the game is below:

So first up we have Aladdin. Acting dubious by voting the mod, (early scum tell) and then does something extremelly suspect. Accepts IB's case immediately without questioning and deduces a lot of additional information about it. Now lets look at this, an INEXPERIENCED player can understand IB's hints easier than both Storr and Mets.... Its almost like he had helpful information.

My conclusion is that Aladdin is mafia and got over excited by the idea of a non-mafia lynch led by a non-mafia player. I'm convinced at this point that Hotshot is 3rd party of some form, and that IB is not mafia.

So Vote Aladdin.

hehe

*sigh* We've been through this in the Mafia chat, Wing. It was actually a misread. Thinking someone is Mafia because they make a modkill joke is just dumb. My stated reason in the game for making that joke was actually the truth.

Also, the reason I seemed to have extra info is because I read people's posts carefully and made deductions from them. In fact, a lot of those early speculations turned out not to be accurate. The weird thing for me was that I wasn't actually speculating to try to confuse people - I really was just curious as to the underlying "plot" of the game. I quickly learned that such speculating draws heat, though, so I only used speculation strategically later on.

But actually, my early defensive comments as a result of your attacks were all true - I didn't need to lie about anything. And in fact, right throughout the game, I focussed on providing valid logical analyses. There was little chance of me being caught in a lie, because - apart from my alignment and role and reasons for voting - I basically stuck to truth and logic. So, right result but wrong reasoning from you - if you really had anything on me, you would have been able to present it and get me lynched, but you couldn't.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Mtam is town as he is nailing his reads.

Storr, pt, ib are likely town in my books.

Aladdin, white rose, deg, benga, rish, falko are all anti town.

Mitch and dj need copchecking as i will never get a good read on em.

Have a good weekend everyone.

70% hit rate. Disagree with that Aladdin. I may not articulate my cases well, but I do have a high hit rate. You can say whatever you want, but I KNEW you were scum. I assumed the mafia protector would be protecting you so didnt target you with kill, I was partially right on that too.

[Metsfanmax]

Mtam is town as he is nailing his reads.

Storr, pt, ib are likely town in my books.

Aladdin, white rose, deg, benga, rish, falko are all anti town.

Mitch and dj need copchecking as i will never get a good read on em.

Have a good weekend everyone.

70% hit rate. Disagree with that Aladdin. I may not articulate my cases well, but I do have a high hit rate. You can say whatever you want, but I KNEW you were scum. I assumed the mafia protector would be protecting you so didnt target you with kill, I was partially right on that too.

In this game 19 of 28 people were town. That's 68%. Your 70% hit rate is essentially not any better than chance.

[AladdinSane]

Mtam is town as he is nailing his reads.

Storr, pt, ib are likely town in my books.

Aladdin, white rose, deg, benga, rish, falko are all anti town.

Mitch and dj need copchecking as i will never get a good read on em.

Have a good weekend everyone.

70% hit rate. Disagree with that Aladdin. I may not articulate my cases well, but I do have a high hit rate. You can say whatever you want, but I KNEW you were scum. I assumed the mafia protector would be protecting you so didnt target you with kill, I was partially right on that too.

You didn't "know" that I was scum because there wasn't sufficient evidence to support that belief. As I explained in Mafia chat (and you evidently failed to understand), it is not enough to have a "true belief" to have knowledge - you must have a "justified true belief". That justification is what you lacked, and that lack is why you couldn't get anybody on board my wagon. What you had was a hunch. Also, you have selectively posted just a sample of your hunches.

Disagree with this, if you can: You, an experienced player with a Vig power role, got outplayed by a guy playing his second game, who was stuck with being a freakin' turperbuoco. In fact, yoyur attack helped Mafia, once I decided to embrace it and use it to draw attention to me, and thus away from the others. You'll notice that once you, Storr, and revived marashu were sleeping with the fishes, my posting rate dropped off considerably. The only time I thought I might actually get lynched was on D5 when Player, CM, and DJP got on my case for a while. But we were able to turn even that to our advantage by using it to cast suspicion back on them.

[Metsfanmax]

Can you two stop comparing the size of your penis? This is a team game. Mafia team won. Town team lost. Beyond that, there's nothing to say. Good game, everyone.

[the white rose]

The Legend of El Turperbuoco Diablo On the other hand, Mafia caught a break with Storr's insistence on massclaim - that really just helped us picked off the power roles at will.

qed

I too wondered about the balance, there was nothing really that town could trust. with sane and insane cops, sane and insane inventors.

Its a shame that the last day did not happen as I had set up a trap to be lynched....how many times does town lynch a mafioso only to lose the game? should i have been lynched the day would have ended with a nolynch and mafia would simply have to choose who to kill to win the game.

looking at the mafia chat, they were very pessimistic on their chances of winning, from my point of view it was in the bag a long time ago.

[rishaed]

The Legend of El Turperbuoco Diablo On the other hand, Mafia caught a break with Storr's insistence on massclaim - that really just helped us picked off the power roles at will.

qed

I too wondered about the balance, there was nothing really that town could trust. with sane and insane cops, sane and insane inventors.

Its a shame that the last day did not happen as I had set up a trap to be lynched....how many times does town lynch a mafioso only to lose the game? should i have been lynched the day would have ended with a nolynch and mafia would simply have to choose who to kill to win the game.

looking at the mafia chat, they were very pessimistic on their chances of winning, from my point of view it was in the bag a long time ago.

We were very justified in our pessimism. We had 1 kill per night with 3 confirmed cops. Then we get the news that with Rag's invention N4 that one of us (me) got exposed at a 100% hit rate while clearing 2 others. Which I was pretty ticked about (as seen in Mafia chat). I was very surprised that I even lived after the first day of that. Anyways we had 1 kill a night in a 20+ person game, and one of the only reasons i felt that we won was the fact that quite a few town got modkilled. The longer the game goes the harder it is for mafia to hide. It was D8 and even new players were picking up on mets and / and if one of them got lynched it was almost gg for mafia IMHO. The one saving grace (you) was unknown to mafia as they had a usurper to deal with as well. At D8 and projected 3/11 i'd say the odds of winning were about 20%. At D1 and same i'd say its about 50/50... but i digress. As a mod primarily I am quite sad that Streaker failed in his responsibility to keep up as a mod, and guide dakky through his first complex mafia game. I feel like quite a bit of the resentment/negativity about this game stems from that fact alone.

[Metsfanmax]

Streaker had RL stuff to deal with, and that always comes first.

It sucks that it happened to this particular game, but life goes on. Anyway, I had fun! Let's not be negative about it.

[dakky21]

Don't be negative yeah! Be proud to be the part of longest CC mafia ever....

I'll edit the OP tomorrow with dates, statistics and everything. If you got ideas, post them here.

[the white rose]

totally agree with dakky, sure there were times when it seemed to be dying a death but then when wing stepped in it seemed to revive, and i for one thoroughly enjoyed the game and quite sad that its all over now.

[StorrZerg]

Wp mafia

f*ck you tambo

f*ck the wrong cop check...

[dakky21]

f*ck the wrong cop check...

This was entirely my fault. I forgot that Marashu is insane and gave him true read. F*ck me. It happens. And it was in the middle of Streaker leaving crisis. Sorry again.

[AladdinSane]

I have to say that I did enjoy the game a lot. However, that's prob enough Mafia for me for the time being - I'd hate for it to become a routine thing.

Hats off to TWR for providing the final surprise - I really didn't see that one coming. Very well played! Even when I thought scum were a bit light and there must be another, I suspected IB rather than TWR.

Mets and Rish both played really well, I thought, and Rish was a bit stiff to get fingered by the alignment indicator.

I actually thought DJP was a vampire at one point - i.e. would be able to revive as Mafia if lynched - because he said something about needing vitamin D, and you get that from being out in the sun, which of course vampires avoid. I wanted to lynch him, but then Falko stuck his head in the noose, followed by the alignment indicator saga.

It was difficult for Town, with insane cops, inventors, and so on, but I suppose that's why they had the numbers. What also made it hard for Town, I think, was losing the Doc (Skoffin) early on, and the massclaim, which really did set up the Mafia killing program. From N2 onwards, we knew exactly who we had to kill, starting with the cops,then moving on to the inventors and the trusted players.

Oe thing I still can't quite believe is that no-one ever suggested I was a turperbuoco like CM. After he claimed, I had to jump in quickly to try to lead people away from making that link, but I didn't really expect to get away with it.

[dakky21]

BTW Poll set-up. Deadline in 3 days.

I agree somewhat that TWR was great, but if I was playing, I'd give it to Mets. Mafia could have won without TWR so his survival doesn't changes anything, except the game ended a bit earlier. Mets was so pro-town whole game and so unreadable... so that's why I think he deserves MVP... but ... up to you people.

[dakky21]

re-created Poll ........ vote again...... deadline 7 days.

[PLAYER57832]

TWR, Mets and Aladdin all were great deceivers in my book.

What killed us was the absolute certainty of a few that just proved wrong on several occasions. TWR, of course, was out to deceive us. Once TWR became "confirmed town" and accepted by so many folks, then the game was sunk. All TWR had to do was sit back and let the others do his dirty work for him. At that point, there was just no dissuading, and any discussion was turned into "you are scum". I don't know if its normal for mafia or not. IF I ever do play again, I will definitely take that experience into account! I should have trusted my instincts, but I just was not able to pull together a good case against anyone. Maybe if we had lynched Aladdin it could have led to a chink in the TWR wall, but I am not sure. At the end, I did suspect that TWR had to be scum, but I also thought IB was in there, too, and no one was willing to believe that TWR was anything but town positive. Similarly, while I suspected mets from the beginning, and a couple of others did as well, no case was fully brought. In the end, I actually leaned toward him being positive. (sad that a 12 year old would become mafia head --- lol) Similarly, I did not come out that strong against Aladdin. As soon as wing turned, I really should have gunned more for Aladdin and/or mets.

What I said about RL taking priority was very true. Its not even so much a matter of time, I did manage to put out a fair number of posts, but as noted, they were mostly just garbage. I was not able to give the game my full thinking. RL had a lot to do with my negativity and frustration. I just did not start out on the right foot and never really got a good grip.

I thank mets and Aladdin both for basically "soft pedaling" me. To some extent. In the end, I can say that it was to their advantage, because once people started suspecting me, most of my posts were taken as "player says, so that must be wrong" (or at least it seemed that way, even if not intentional).

Per the voting -- my first instinct was to say TWR, but his advatage had more to do with the invention than his particular strategy. That he was able to take full advatage was absolutely to his credit, but I am not sure that MVP should be awarded for chance. Its definitely a close call, though!

Mets apparently played well. While folks occasionally put forward suspicions, there was never a full case. In retrospect, that he did not come out with strong defenses or strongly gunning for others helped dissuade people from suspecting him.

I think Aladdin gave a good summary. Reading that this is only the second game is what is making me say "MVP". He did a lot of persuading and manipulating folks, all the while keeping the game fun.

So.. my MVP vote rests with Aladdin, though the other 2 are VERY strong contenders! Kind of a shame it cannot be a tie!

[Iron Butterfly]

Understand that there is never certainty on anything until someone dies and you see what they flip. At it's basic town had no investigative roles compound that with several new players, which makes for a hard game. DJ played like absolute scum and while I understand where you are coming from your wishy washy play made you suspect. A vet player would not be able to get away with not having an opinion while saying they will follow the crowd.

I understand the frustration. LOL I thought for sure DJ would flip mafia. Also mafia had a large voting block still alive so while Town was split and in the dark they could screw around by splitting the vote, which they did several times. The only true town circle was killed one by one as we had no protection and no roles to do anything. Very frustrating to say the least.

[Falkomagno]

I didn’t really enjoy this game. It was too random, too crowded, the people actions were not rational, too much noise and randomness to find clear arguments or to judge actions. Exacerbated by a really confusing set up, actions without purpose, post restrictions that made it impossible to read completely, it was certainly a mess of a game. At certain point was like I think it feels to be addicted to Forge of Empires, where I keep login every day, just to get annoyed by the amount of posts, and at the end feeling overwhelmed to post something meaningful.

Luckily later on, Wing took over, and you could see more structure in the game, and also better deadlines, which helps to give shape to the game, although the game was already doomed at least for town, and at least for me, quite early. Thanks Wing for your excellent work. Thanks also to Dakky because he really tried and put a great amount of work into dthe game to keep it going, when the main mod could not continue to host the game.

I think having multiple mods, with different approach in the same game, is not optimal. Reading the roles, in paper looks like a lot of fun, but in practice was too chaotic to be enjoyable, at least for me.

Congrats also to TWR, manage to show a consistent image and to get cleared, and Aladdin, with his nonsense non-stop, now is easy to see that the best way was to lynch him on day one, but managed to spam the whole game and get his way, so actually is quite remarkable.

I look forward to get in another mafia game, for sure a smaller one and without so much noise.

[the white rose]

congrats to aladin, well deserved mvp!

[ptlowe]

i voted TWR MVP

I KNEW UR WERE SKUM AL

[AladdinSane]

i voted TWR MVP

I KNEW UR WERE SKUM AL

LOL reelly? Becorse you investimagated Storr N1 and TWR N2... If you "knew" I was scum, why not investimagate me? Enyway, feel free to join Wing and Player (and others, most likely) in teh "I So Knew Aladdin Was Mafia But I Dident Get To Do Enytink About It" Club, if it makes you feel beter. And why dident you get to do enytink about it? Oh yeh, becorse you told Mafia you were Town cop and we sent you to sleep wit teh fishes.

Anyhoo, thanks to all who voted for me. After a lot of deliberation I voted for Mets. I could just as easily have voted for TWR but I felt Mets deserved to get some votes too, and I had access to some of his thought processes in Mafia chat throughout the game, so I could see his thinking was really solid throughout. Well played to both.

Hope to see you all in another game some time! Player, you should give it another go, in a less confusing game. The Beginner game I played in earlier was far better as an introduction to Mafia than this one.

El Turperbuoco Diablo, aka AladdinSane aka Mysterioso

[dakky21]

BTW!

Check first post for prize breakdown!

[Dukasaur]

Congrats to the Winners and all the Participants from the Community Team!


Prize disbursements coming very soon.