Table Talk

iamjhing · Post by **iamjhing** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 10:58 am

When I play FtF (Face to face or real, no one seems to know what that means) during other peoples turn I talk diplomacy with other players. This game isn't just who gets the largest army, or the luckiest dice, it's about coercion, lying, backstabbing and cooperation(when you can get away with it).
I'm a total noob to this site, I just finished my first game. But after my experience there I found the community has a totally different veiw of the game. They seemed to dispise me because I tried to weasel my way out of a bad position.
I love the service this website provides. However from the games I'm in currently, it seems the community values honor over a win. I think private messages should be added as well, I realize the risk with multiple accounts, freinds, etc. but it opens the aspect of the game that I and I'm sure many others love the most.
And I have to ask: What's wrong with a little table talk?

GreecePwns · Post by **GreecePwns** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 11:05 am

I guess you are right, and it totally would add a new dimension to this game. However, if lying were allowed, everyone would have like 500 negative feedbacks. So you can really only have one or the other, i guess.

EDIT: This totally reminds me of the board game Diplomacy.

dominationnation · Post by **dominationnation** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 11:09 am

I totally agree. It is war after all. all is fair in love and war. I hate all the people that keep conplaining because he asked for a truce, or because I attacked one person who I dont like rather than some stranger. Private messages are allowed. Click where it says inbox and hit new replay. You can send a private message to anyone of your choice and ony hey can read it. I also dont think that it is wrong to exploit "bugs" in the system such as double turns or other tricks. I think that alliences should be more excepted and Im not even that against secreat alliences. NO I dont have any but I dont see what is wrong with them as long as you ask in game and not join game after game with a constint secret allience with one person

glide · Post by **glide** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 11:25 am

You know what I like? My honor.

oVo · Post by **oVo** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 11:38 am

Your table talk chatter should appear in the game chat. It's hard to imagine players in a game --face to face-- going for hours and never speaking a single word. But that silence happens all the time here.

Alliances and other deals are to be expected as survival techniques once a dominant player emerges to extend the conflict. Otherwise it is usually game over.

sully800 · Post by **sully800** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 12:31 pm

In the risk world championships (face to face competition) any alliance, hinting, nudging etc is strictly forbidden. Just some food for thought

oVo · Post by **oVo** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 2:58 pm

sully800 wrote:In the risk world championships (face to face competition) any alliance, hinting, nudging etc is strictly forbidden. Just some food for thought

Where did you find this piece of trivia and how can we verify it as fact? It seems that alliances are very much a part of the game, so how can any legitimate championship be conducted without them?

Kind of like "no bluff" poker doncha think?

poo-maker · Post by **poo-maker** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 2:59 pm

oVo wrote:
sully800 wrote:In the risk world championships (face to face competition) any alliance, hinting, nudging etc is strictly forbidden. Just some food for thought
Where did you find this piece of trivia and how can we verify it as fact? It seems that alliances are very much a part of the game, so how can any legitimate championship be conducted without them?

Kind of like "no bluff" poker doncha think?

I read it too on the IRTOC website.

sully800 · Post by **sully800** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:04 pm

oVo wrote:
sully800 wrote:In the risk world championships (face to face competition) any alliance, hinting, nudging etc is strictly forbidden. Just some food for thought
Where did you find this piece of trivia and how can we verify it as fact? It seems that alliances are very much a part of the game, so how can any legitimate championship be conducted without them?

Kind of like "no bluff" poker doncha think?

It can be a part of the game...but like many top players on here, the best people don't generally like alliances, and hinting and all of that. To be really good you need to know when to team up with someone or when to let them keep their bonus without using your words. Of course some people still prefer to make alliances, its just a different type of game.

DAZMCFC · Post by **DAZMCFC** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:08 pm

sometimes i do often pm someone and ask them if they want a truce. then i would put it in the game chat before i play my turn, so that there is no cheating what so ever.

sully800 · Post by **sully800** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:09 pm

By the way, here is the site http://www.risktoc.org/

Rule #3: 3- NO ALLIANCES, NO HINTING, NO NEGOTIATIONS! First (1st) occurrence will result in loss of round or disqualification. The tournament director will determine the severity of these infractions

I should really go this year, because my school is quite close to Jim Thorpe PA (less than 1 hour drive). Perhaps JR could make an appearance as well. I don't know what part of PA he hails from but it might be close.

I remember last year I found out about the TOC a few days after it happened...then we began talking about making tshirts with our names on them and sending out a CC crew the next year. Now that we have the shop, thats very possible to do. Perhaps we could even get some sort of CC sponsorship to pay the entry fee in return for us representing the site

EDIT: For those wondering, games are all classic, chained, escalating and 6 player whenever available.

happy2seeyou · Post by **happy2seeyou** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:12 pm

sully800 wrote:By the way, here is the site http://www.risktoc.org/

Rule #3: 3- NO ALLIANCES, NO HINTING, NO NEGOTIATIONS! First (1st) occurrence will result in loss of round or disqualification. The tournament director will determine the severity of these infractions

I should really go this year, because my school is quite close to Jim Thorpe PA (less than 1 hour drive). Perhaps JR could make an appearance as well. I don't know what part of PA he hails from but it might be close.

I remember last year I found out about the TOC a few days after it happened...then we began talking about making tshirts with our names on them and sending out a CC crew the next year. Now that we have the shop, thats very possible to do. Perhaps we could even get some sort of CC sponsorship to pay the entry fee in return for us representing the site

I am working on going as well Sully. And I think JR lives about a hour away from there.

oVo · Post by **oVo** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:18 pm

I found the IRTOC site and their rules for the 19th Annual Risk Tournament of Champions.

Rule #3 is the no alliances, no hinting and no negotiations, which becomes a moot point
once you discover the competition employs ESCALATING CARD SETS (rule #15).

sully800 · Post by **sully800** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:32 pm

22 - Dice must be “Rolled”, not dropped, jumped, thumped, pelted, or skirted.
lol

Oh, and I hope you go happy2seeyou, because I would be very, well, you know the rest.

oVo · Post by **oVo** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 4:11 pm

"To be really good you need to know when to team up with someone
or when to let them keep their bonus without using your words."

I totally agree with you sully, it's a genuine pleasure to compete with players who are aware of what needs to be done as the game develops and just do it.

Forefall · Post by **Forefall** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 4:20 pm

Why escalating? Seems like that destroys a lot of the strategy in the game.

RobinJ · Post by **RobinJ** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 4:26 pm

Forefall wrote:Why escalating? Seems like that destroys a lot of the strategy in the game.

Escalating was the traditional way of playing risk and, in my opinion, it takes more skill anyway (or at least a different type of skill).

RobinJ · Post by **RobinJ** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 4:27 pm

Forefall wrote:Why escalating? Seems like that destroys a lot of the strategy in the game.

Escalating was the traditional way of playing risk and, in my opinion, it takes more skill anyway (or at least a different type of skill).

billval3 · Post by **billval3** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 4:27 pm

oVo wrote:I found the IRTOC site and their rules for the 19th Annual Risk Tournament of Champions.

Rule #3 is the no alliances, no hinting and no negotiations, which becomes a moot point
once you discover the competition employs ESCALATING CARD SETS (rule #15).

I think it's stupid that they don't allow alliances in official play. As many people have already said, it's part of the game.

I think it's funny that some of you think really good players just "know" what to do without any discussion. I'm sure there are many different strategies employed by the good players here and they wouldn't necessarily agree on what the "right" move is in various situations. Just a hunch.

RobinJ · Post by **RobinJ** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 4:37 pm

billval3 wrote:
oVo wrote:I found the IRTOC site and their rules for the 19th Annual Risk Tournament of Champions.

Rule #3 is the no alliances, no hinting and no negotiations, which becomes a moot point
once you discover the competition employs ESCALATING CARD SETS (rule #15).
I think it's stupid that they don't allow alliances in official play. As many people have already said, it's part of the game.

I think it's funny that some of you think really good players just "know" what to do without any discussion. I'm sure there are many different strategies employed by the good players here and they wouldn't necessarily agree on what the "right" move is in various situations. Just a hunch.

I don't think it really matters - the players there should be good enough to have unspoken alliances. They will know when to attack and when not to attack (as others have already said before me).

oVo · Post by **oVo** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 5:27 pm

I do not think ESCALATING SETS require more tactical ability, because eventually one player has a set with the clobber power to steamroll the entire map. Some skill merged the luck of the draw.

Your fate in an escalating set game is in the cards and not the strategy. This format does ensure a speedy tournament by eliminating marathon matches and determining a champion in days not weeks.

Sparqs · Post by **Sparqs** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 5:43 pm

I'm new to this site so I know my opinion carries little weight, but I, too, prefer unspoken alliances. That's not to say I might not point out a bonus-breaker to someone in position who appears otherwise clueless, but I'd rather not have to say anything. Especially since saying something can make you a target. ;)

I like that there is a mechanism for doubles and triples play. At this point, I intend to keep my partnerships to such arenas. However, I expect I may have to agree to an occasional "offer I can't refuse."

On the matter of secret alliances, I'm firm in my opposition. I think that Diplomacy is fantastic: no luck, pure negotiation and strategy. But that's a different game entirely.

sully800 · Post by **sully800** » Sun Jun 03, 2007 9:58 pm

billval3 wrote: I think it's stupid that they don't allow alliances in official play. As many people have already said, it's part of the game.

I think it's funny that some of you think really good players just "know" what to do without any discussion. I'm sure there are many different strategies employed by the good players here and they wouldn't necessarily agree on what the "right" move is in various situations. Just a hunch.

I agree with you completely that there are many different strategies to employ. In fact I just got into another of several arguments with a player about why I make the moves I make, and I hate that.

When you are playing with beginners, its easy to coerce them into doing something that is not truly beneficial for them. But for good or great players that is generally not possible, and that pretty much ruins the point of alliances anyway. I think that if you are an established good player (the level that determines that, I don't know) you should be able to play without needing the input of the rest of the table. Your strategy may differ from others, but if you are a good player and you attempt to make good moves then I see no foul.

So no, I don't believe there is a correct way to play every situation, but there are good ways to play and a skilled player will figure them out without alliances, hints or otherwise. And I think the TOC agrees with that opinion.

RobinJ · Post by **RobinJ** » Mon Jun 04, 2007 3:17 am

oVo wrote:I do not think ESCALATING SETS require more tactical ability, because eventually one player has a set with the clobber power to steamroll the entire map. Some skill merged the luck of the draw.

Your fate in an escalating set game is in the cards and not the strategy. This format does ensure a speedy tournament by eliminating marathon matches and determining a champion in days not weeks.

Okay I will concede that the strategies have to be completely different. In escalating you have to know when to take cards and put yourself in a position to eliminate someone. It is not about continents so much.

In flat rate and no cards you have to take the continents and find a way to make yourself into the dominant force without the other players pegging you back. Continents are extremely important.