Is misogynistic sexism really a problem in the US?

[tzor]

I and several other girls each scored very highly on SATs and such, yet no one even offered us the opportunities that our male classmates got. And, women were routinely denies various jobs.

Oh cry me a river. SAT scores were never the end all and be all of college admissions. I'll be the first to admit that one of the reasons why I got accepted into Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute was because of my geographic location on Long Island. Had there been one girl who scored better than me from the same area, she probably would have gotten in and not me.

Now at the time, the school was still significantly male but this was less to do with admissions and more to do with the fact that the 80's wasn't a time when women rushed to be engineers.

[Symmetry]

I and several other girls each scored very highly on SATs and such, yet no one even offered us the opportunities that our male classmates got. And, women were routinely denies various jobs.

Oh cry me a river. SAT scores were never the end all and be all of college admissions. I'll be the first to admit that one of the reasons why I got accepted into Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute was because of my geographic location on Long Island. Had there been one girl who scored better than me from the same area, she probably would have gotten in and not me.

Now at the time, the school was still significantly male but this was less to do with admissions and more to do with the fact that the 80's wasn't a time when women rushed to be engineers.

Were you encouraged towards engineering? I think you're being a bit harsh, but from my experience, women were, and still are discouraged from engineering related subjects from a young age.

I think, though, that we're moving in to an area that covers systemic sexism, but does not necessarily exclude misogyny.

[tzor]

Were you encouraged towards engineering? I think you're being a bit harsh, but from my experience, women were, and still are discouraged from engineering related subjects from a young age.

My father worked in Brookhaven National Laboratories. I encouraged myself towards physics. On the other hand, in my area of Long Island we had the Grumman plant that built the Lunar Lander. I'm sure others were encouraged towards engineering as a result. The President of my college had run NASA through the Apollo days to just before the Space Shuttle testing days.

[Symmetry]

Were you encouraged towards engineering? I think you're being a bit harsh, but from my experience, women were, and still are discouraged from engineering related subjects from a young age.

My father worked in Brookhaven National Laboratories. I encouraged myself towards physics. On the other hand, in my area of Long Island we had the Grumman plant that built the Lunar Lander. I'm sure others were encouraged towards engineering as a result. The President of my college had run NASA through the Apollo days to just before the Space Shuttle testing days.

In the UK, female students beat their male counterparts at every subject except for maths at school. That includes physics and chemistry. At university level, engineering subjects are pretty much male dominated. The skill sets are obviously there, but women aren't making the leap from school to graduate level.

Do you think that role-models play a part? I've always been a bit sceptical of the argument, but you clearly had a role model yourself.

A few years ago I gave a paper at a women's studies conference- I was working on some manuscripts by a 17th century woman at the time. I was the only bloke there. It was kind of humbling in a way. I was kind of pissed off at first- I gave a paper and chaired a discussion, but at the end of the conference, at the dinner, I sat very much at the back of the room. Literally- behind me was the exit.

It's a weird experience to be marginalised like that, being a man. It gives you a sense of perspective.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Its about terminology.

You say the word, engineering, to a girl and they switch off. Say, problem solving, instead and they are interested.

Friends and family have a lot to answer for.

[riskllama]

Were you encouraged towards engineering? I think you're being a bit harsh, but from my experience, women were, and still are discouraged from engineering related subjects from a young age.

My father worked in Brookhaven National Laboratories. I encouraged myself towards physics. On the other hand, in my area of Long Island we had the Grumman plant that built the Lunar Lander. I'm sure others were encouraged towards engineering as a result. The President of my college had run NASA through the Apollo days to just before the Space Shuttle testing days.

In the UK, female students beat their male counterparts at every subject except for maths at school. That includes physics and chemistry. At university level, engineering subjects are pretty much male dominated. The skill sets are obviously there, but women aren't making the leap from school to graduate level.

Do you think that role-models play a part? I've always been a bit sceptical of the argument, but you clearly had a role model yourself.

A few years ago I gave a paper at a women's studies conference- I was working on some manuscripts by a 17th century woman at the time. I was the only bloke there. It was kind of humbling in a way. I was kind of pissed off at first- I gave a paper and chaired a discussion, but at the end of the conference, at the dinner, I sat very much at the back of the room. Literally- behind me was the exit.

It's a weird experience to be marginalised like that, being a man. It gives you a sense of perspective.

but you gotta like those odds, sym...
i bet you took home...oh, wait.

[Symmetry]

Its about terminology.

You say the word, engineering, to a girl and they switch off. Say, problem solving, instead and they are interested.

Friends and family have a lot to answer for.

That's kinda broad (no pun intended), but there's a point there. Engineering isn't really considered a subject for women. Like I said, there's no real reason for it- women are suited to it when it comes to qualifications needed to access graduate degrees. Biological and chemical engineering seem to get a fair share of women, but that's just anecdotal experience.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Its about terminology.

You say the word, engineering, to a girl and they switch off. Say, problem solving, instead and they are interested.

Friends and family have a lot to answer for.

That's kinda broad (no pun intended), but there's a point there. Engineering isn't really considered a subject for women. Like I said, there's no real reason for it- women are suited to it when it comes to qualifications needed to access graduate degrees. Biological and chemical engineering seem to get a fair share of women, but that's just anecdotal experience.

Biological Engineering and Chemical Engineering do reasonably well for the same reason that "Architectural Engineering" Degrees do quite well. Now I guess, like everyone else, you have no idea what Architectural engineering is! You can guess. Sounds cool.

Well you are wrong, its the engineering of building systems such as air conditioning, heating etc. Nobody realises that before they go to uni though, and it is a rewarding degree as you get a great deal of knowledge and building services really are an intriguing problem.

Engineering IS the art of problem solving. Mathematics is just one tool. An Engineer is part mathmatician, part scientist, part economist, part lawyer..... Simply the application of theory to real life.

Look at me and Mets. There is a difference in how we write and what we think. He is a scientist. I am an engineer. He accepts nothing less than perfection. I expect error. We come from very similar worlds, yet the entire mindset is completely different.

[Symmetry]

Its about terminology.

You say the word, engineering, to a girl and they switch off. Say, problem solving, instead and they are interested.

Friends and family have a lot to answer for.

That's kinda broad (no pun intended), but there's a point there. Engineering isn't really considered a subject for women. Like I said, there's no real reason for it- women are suited to it when it comes to qualifications needed to access graduate degrees. Biological and chemical engineering seem to get a fair share of women, but that's just anecdotal experience.

Biological Engineering and Chemical Engineering do reasonably well for the same reason that "Architectural Engineering" Degrees do quite well. Now I guess, like everyone else, you have no idea what Architectural engineering is! You can guess. Sounds cool.

Well you are wrong, its the engineering of building systems such as air conditioning, heating etc. Nobody realises that before they go to uni though, and it is a rewarding degree as you get a great deal of knowledge and building services really are an intriguing problem.

Engineering IS the art of problem solving. Mathematics is just one tool. An Engineer is part mathmatician, part scientist, part economist, part lawyer..... Simply the application of theory to real life.

Look at me and Mets. There is a difference in how we write and what we think. He is a scientist. I am an engineer. He accepts nothing less than perfection. I expect error. We come from very similar worlds, yet the entire mindset is completely different.

What I'm arguing is more the set of skills acquired at school level before graduate specialisation.

I understand why you had to set up that strawman argument about architectural engineering, but I hope you can see the error in your own argument. I didn't discuss it at all.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

IT WASNT A GODDAMN ARGUMENT YOU UTTER MORON

[mrswdk]

Oh snap, Symmetry just got block capsed.

[Symmetry]

IT WASNT A GODDAMN ARGUMENT YOU UTTER MORON

Apart from the utter moron part, I agree- it was pathetic, and certainly nothing like a god-damn argument.

[notyou2]

WCG in Canada it is mechanical engineering that teaches the building mechanical systems and electrical engineering that teaches the electrical systems. Architectural engineering involves the building itself other than the structural portion and aforementioned mechanical and electrical disciplines. I have been employed in this industry for 30 years. Also, there are a lot more women in the industry now than there ever has been. It is changing, albeit slowly.

[Symmetry]

WCG in Canada it is mechanical engineering that teaches the building mechanical systems and electrical engineering that teaches the electrical systems. Architectural engineering involves the building itself other than the structural portion and aforementioned mechanical and electrical disciplines. I have been employed in this industry for 30 years. Also, there are a lot more women in the industry now than there ever has been. It is changing, albeit slowly.

I think he wussed out of the discussion.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

I agree with notyou2 said. The differences are cultural between countries.

The key line was the suggestion that it is changing albeit slowly. Every engineer agrees with this observation. I dont need to make a post to say that i agree.

Sometimes Symm, in a discussion there is nothing left to say. Now piss off.

[Symmetry]

I agree with notyou2 said. The differences are cultural between countries.

The key line was the suggestion that it is changing albeit slowly. Every engineer agrees with this observation. I dont need to make a post to say that i agree.

Sometimes Symm, in a discussion there is nothing left to say. Now piss off.

Oh please. When you're shown to be wrong, you get all macho and shouty. Precisely the sort of behaviour that is under discussion. Is this ape-like chest-thumping how you treat anyone who points out flaws in your thinking?

If so, you're part of the problem.

[saxitoxin]

#LiberalProblems

How Can I Embrace Kinky Sex in a ‘Pussy-Grabbing’ Era?

From the Nation -

 Dear Liza,
I used to be a submissive in a BDSM relationship, having recently separated from my husband after a smothering marriage. The relationship was wonderful, and my partner, the dominant, was very supportive of my becoming an independent, successful woman in the wider world. No matter what humiliating or painful act I submitted to in the bedroom, my consent was crucial, which oddly gave me the power. I consider myself a feminist and, along with so many other women, have railed at the pure, disgusting sexism of Donald Trump’s “pussy-grabbing” boasts. However, recently I’ve started wondering if being the submissive in a BDSM sexual relationship disqualifies me from being a true advocate for women. Shouldn’t slapping and choking be relationship deal-breakers for a feminist? On the other hand, I quite enjoyed it and would love to find another equally dominant partner. What are your thoughts?

https://www.thenation.com/article/askin ... socialflow

[riskllama]

lol, letters to sym...

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Sym go to the other forum. Or just quit the site.

I prefer the latter. Do that.

[riskllama]

yeesh, could u imagine the howls of protest?

[Symmetry]

Sym go to the other forum. Or just quit the site.

I prefer the latter. Do that.

Of course you prefer the latter. You find opinions contrary to your own status maddening. Do you realty, and truly, think you're suited to your job? Are you really ok with the idea of women competing with you?

I guess, what I'm really asking is whether this kind of temper tantrum is really how you behave. Could you cope with disagreement in your workplace? Are your weird rants for people to "piss off" and "just quit" actually how you feel?

NY2 has indicated that you're on the wrong side of history here.

[WingCmdr Ginkapo]

Sym go to the other forum. Or just quit the site.

I prefer the latter. Do that.

Of course you prefer the latter. You find opinions contrary to your own status maddening. Do you realty, and truly, think you're suited to your job? Are you really ok with the idea of women competing with you?

I guess, what I'm really asking is whether this kind of temper tantrum is really how you behave. Could you cope with disagreement in your workplace? Are your weird rants for people to "piss off" and "just quit" actually how you feel?

NY2 has indicated that you're on the wrong side of history here.

You are an idiot.

[riskllama]

I think you should start acting all "macho & shouty", sym - probly get a lot more action that way...

[Symmetry]

Sym go to the other forum. Or just quit the site.

I prefer the latter. Do that.

Of course you prefer the latter. You find opinions contrary to your own status maddening. Do you realty, and truly, think you're suited to your job? Are you really ok with the idea of women competing with you?

I guess, what I'm really asking is whether this kind of temper tantrum is really how you behave. Could you cope with disagreement in your workplace? Are your weird rants for people to "piss off" and "just quit" actually how you feel?

NY2 has indicated that you're on the wrong side of history here.

You are an idiot.

I feel I should de-escalate the situation. I pushed you a bit, hoping to get a more rational and considered approach to the topic. That was perhaps unfair and a deeply unreasonable expectation.

What would it take to bring you back to the discussion on a constructive and logical level without the temper tantrums?

After all, you'll never make silverback with that attitude.

[BoganGod]

Sym go to the other forum. Or just quit the site.

I prefer the latter. Do that.

Of course you prefer the latter. You find opinions contrary to your own status maddening. Do you realty, and truly, think you're suited to your job? Are you really ok with the idea of women competing with you?

I guess, what I'm really asking is whether this kind of temper tantrum is really how you behave. Could you cope with disagreement in your workplace? Are your weird rants for people to "piss off" and "just quit" actually how you feel?

NY2 has indicated that you're on the wrong side of history here.

You are an idiot.

As are you WCG for not having the second most deplorable oxygen thief on CC on your foe list. If you have read any three randomly sampled DSOIV or Fake Bernie posts you have read the totality of their thoughts, reasoning "skills" and possible contributions to any topic. Why torture yourself. Both these trolls have selected CC as their bridge to dwell beneath. Feed them, or don't. Still they will persist in throwing their faeces. Having them on ignore cuts down on the mess.

RGJ